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Bratton Concerned Over Early Prisoner Release; Deadly Plane Crash in Egypt; Jeb Bush Launches 'Jeb Can Fix It' Tour; "Bush v Gore: The Endless Election". Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 02, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:46] JOE JOHNS, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: There's also this issue of banning the box, which is getting rid of the check-off on federal job applications where inmates, former inmates, have to declare that they were, in fact, incarcerated before they're eligible for a job; also some technical training there for people who have been released.

All of this, of course, is sort of a sea change here in the country. Many conservatives now moving in the direction of criminal justice reform, at least in theory, because they're concerned about the costs. They're also concerned about the overreach in the government that comes along with mass incarceration.

So, the President beginning his push, but quite frankly, there's just a long way to go before Republicans, Democrats, liberals and conservatives can actually come up with some type of agreement that might be able pass at Congress -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning.

The New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton is concerned with the President's efforts. Keep in mind, Bratton just gave the eulogy at Detective Randolph Holder's funeral. Holder was shot in East Harlem allegedly by Tyrone Howard. Howard had been arrested 28 times and was in a diversion program when police say he shot Detective Howard (SIC).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: There's a major effort under way to let a lot of people out of jail, sensibly less violent offenders, but one of the issues of concern is when people go to jail, oftentimes they go to jail with negotiated charges, if you will.

So that somebody that is in jail that seems that they're a nonviolent drug offender may, in fact, have crimes of violence in their record. So we have to be very concerned about who we're letting out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, here's the question this morning, is the early release of tens of thousands of offenders the right thing to do? With me now, Kevin Shird, who spent time in prison for dealing

drugs -- he's now a community activist and author of "Lessons of Redemption: former prison convict". Welcome. Thank you for being with me this morning.

KEVIN SHIRD, AUTHOR, "LESSONS OF REDEMPTION": Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Is Commissioner Bratton right?

SHIRD: Absolutely not. So, even in these cases where these individuals were released from prison, before they were released, their records were reviewed by federal court, a federal judge, and so in federal prison -- in federal court, there is no negotiation of a violent crime where it won't appear in the records. And it won't impact you. So it's just not true. It's just not fact.

COSTELLO: But how can we be sure all of these offenders released from prison won't return to a life of crime?

SHIRD: Well, we don't know for sure, but we do know that the mass majority of these nonviolent prisoners don't have a background in violent crime and so violent crime is sometimes predictable. When a guy has a history of violent crime, it's a great chance that he'll commit a violent crime again.

But guys that are nonviolent individuals usually are not the guys that are out here shooting people and those kinds of things. Look, right now we're talking about righting a wrong, because these unjust and unfair drug policies that we enacted in the early 90s when we were going after this whole tough on crime phenomenon.

So what you're seeing now is righting a wrong. And we just can't keep looking at our criminal justice system in a way that's so politicized that we can't look back and say, you know what, we made a huge mistake, so let's fix that right now and let's release these 6,000 nonviolent prisoners that have been, in a sense, incarcerated unjustly. These long prison sentences for nonviolent drug offenses in America are ridiculous.

COSTELLO: You mean they were just sentenced for too long a period of time, not that they shouldn't have served time for dealing drugs?

SHIRD: No, if you commit a drug crime in America, you should be punished. But you shouldn't receive 10, 20 or 30 years for one bag of crack cocaine. It's ridiculous. America has 2.2 million people in prison across the United States, more than any country in the world. We have more people in prison than the population of Philadelphia. I mean it's just ridiculous. And we have to -- we've got to do a better job with this.

COSTELLO: Well, the hard part comes now. So, these prisoners are going to be released but it will be difficult for them to make a new life, to find a job, to find housing. And I don't think America has in place programs to effectively help them, do you? SHIRD: Carol, we have to do a much better job of guys that are

re-entering in our community. Not just guys that are re-entering our community. So rehabilitation was supposed to be this big deal decades ago. You went to prison -- you committed a crime, you went to prison, you're rehabilitated. There aren't many things in prison to rehabilitate a guy.

[10:35:10] We have to start with revamping the entire criminal justice system from the day of sentencing to incarceration until release. But that doesn't mean that we don't look back at a wrong and say, you know what, we've got to fix this. These guys need to be released.

Now housing, job training, drug treatment -- we have to have these things in place and we need to do a better job at that. We can't say, let's not let these guys out of prison. That's not right or wrong because we don't have these things in place. That's just not right.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll see what the President says in Newark later today. Kevin Shird, the author of "Lessons of Redemption: former prison convict". Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, investigators say it broke apart in midair, killing all 224 people on board. What brought down this Russian airliner?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:23] COSTELLO: The mystery deepens over the weekend crash of a Russian airliner that killed all 224 aboard. This morning airline officials made a startling claim -- there had to be an external influence on the plane for it virtually to disintegrate in midair. The Kremlin says terrorism cannot be ruled out. And about an hour ago the director of the National Intelligence Agency, James Clapper, echoed that very same thing.

Let's talk about this with Alan Diehl. He's a former accident investigator for the FAA and the NTSB as well as the U.S. Air Force. Welcome, sir.

ALAN DIEHL, FORMER ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR FOR FAA AND NTSB: Thank you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And I should also mention you're the author of the book "Air Safety Investigators: using science to save lives one crash at a time". So you are the perfect person to talk to this morning.

The voice and data recorders have been recovered. How soon will we know something?

DIEHL: I would imagine the Egyptians will release some details within the next -- certainly within the next few days. And of course, they have the physical evidence, the wreckage there, so we'll know more about potential terrorist acts or explosions or missiles within a matter of days, I would expect. COSTELLO: Supposedly this plane virtually disintegrated at

31,000 feet. People were still strapped in their seats with their seat belts on when they were found on the ground. How unusual is this type of catastrophe?

DIEHL: Well, of course, air disasters in general now are very rare -- once every eight million flights. But it has happened. And I would -- I would suggest that we don't know that the aircraft broke up at 30-some thousand feet yet. It may well have been, and all indications are, it may have stayed intact until roughly 5,000 feet above the ground. It was descending at 6,000 feet a minute from the evidence so far. And then they lost the electronic signals at 5,000 feet above the ground. The aircraft is spread over about a seven- square mile area.

So, that aircraft may have descended largely intact until roughly 5,000 feet above the ground. So, we're still -- I mean, obviously, the investigators are still looking at the details but we'll know a lot more within a matter of days, I'm sure.

COSTELLO: Investigators say there was no distress call from the crew.

DIEHL: That's not unusual. Many of my fellow pundits talk about, you have -- I have an airline transport pilot license. Trust me, if you're flying a jet aircraft at 30-some thousand feet, you're going to focus on trouble shooting the problem and not talking to the controllers. So, that's not -- not that unusual. They were probably dealing with some kind of major emergency.

Clearly they were flying over a restricted area up to 26,000 feet. And the aircraft descended either out of control or under their control. So I suspect these pilots were very busy in the minutes before the final breakup.

COSTELLO: All right. Alan Diehl, thanks for joining me this morning.

DIEHL: Thanks -- Carol.

All right. This is Tampa, Florida. Jeb Bush is at a campaign appearance, obviously, and he has changed his campaign slogan from "Jeb Exclamation Point" to "Jeb Can Fix It". His campaign people say you're going to see a more aggressive Jeb Bush. We're going to be following this campaign appearance.

We'll fill you in after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:48:25] COSTELLO: Jeb Bush now speaking at a campaign rally in Tampa. He's unveiled a new slogan; it reads, "Jeb Can Fix It". His campaign people tell us we will see a more aggressive Jeb Bush.

And I can't help but point out that woman behind Jeb Bush, you know, to his right, screen right, with the sticker in the middle of his forehead. Now, that is a supporter. We congratulate her. We'll keep you posted on Mr. Bush's remarks.

If anyone understands the pressures of the campaign trail, it's big brother George W. Bush. Hard to believe it's been 15 years since the cliffhanger election between George W. Bush and Al Gore. And tonight CNN is taking an inside look at exactly what happened during the chaotic 36 days that it took to declare a winner.

Here's a look at the CNN special report "BUSH V GORE: THE ENDLESS ELECTION".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: At the governor's mansion in Austin it was the morning after.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How many hours of sleep did you get last night?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About two. How about you?

BUSH: About three and a half, actually.

RON KLAIN, GORE CAMPAIGN GENERAL COUNSEL: The one thing that keeps every operative, every person on a campaign going is the knowledge that it's over on Election Day. You know that this thing has an end.

BORGER: But the election of 2000 didn't end. It just moved to Florida where 25 electoral votes would determine the presidency.

BILL DALEY, GORE CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: We're going to take Lieberman's plane and Ron Klain was going to take the charge and we had a bunch of lawyers get briefed on the whole thing and they were going to go off to Florida that night, in the middle of the night.

[10:50:02] KLAIN: I remember telling my wife as I left early that morning to get on the plane that I'd be home by Friday. I was pretty sure I'd be home by Friday.

BORGER: Good idea.

KLAIN: Yes.

BORGER: In Austin, Team Bush needed a leader -- a heavy hitter. The choice was obvious.

BUSH: We have asked former United States secretary of state James Baker to travel to Florida on our behalf.

JOE ALBAUGH, BUSH CAMPAIGN MANAGER: And he said, "Well, Joe, how long do you think we ought to pack for? And I said, oh, two or three days. We're going to the Sunshine State.

JAMES BAKER, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: By 2:00 that afternoon I was on an airplane to Florida with Joe Albaugh. ALBAUGH: He has one bag. We get in the plane, very small plane.

Fly off to Tallahassee. He says, OK, brief me. After about 45 minutes he leans back in the seat and he says, we're headed to the Supreme Court. And I was absolutely blown away.

BORGER: Supreme Court?

ALBAUGH: Supreme Court of the United States. I said, "You're kidding me?" And without batting an eye, taking a breath, he said, "It's the only way this can end."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wow.

BORGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger joins me now. And why was James Baker so sure it would wind up in the Supreme Court?

BORGER: Good question. Because he's smart and he figured that the courts in the state of Florida were dominated by Democrats. He was right about that. The legislature was dominated by Republicans. The Governor was Jeb, who you were just talking about a moment -- obviously the brother of the candidate. But the courts were so important.

The state Supreme Court in Florida, dominated by Democrats; he knew he was going to lose or he assumed he was going to lose in the state Supreme Court, so there he told Joe Albaugh on day one, we're going to end up in the Supreme Court because he figured he had a better shot there, right? And, of course, he turned out to be right.

COSTELLO: But you know, you talk to all of those people, none of them expected it to drag on for as long as it did.

BORGER: Nobody. Nobody. Well, there's no precedent for it in modern political history -- the closest election in our modern history. They all figured they'd go down and they figure out what votes were missing where and there would be some way to recount them and that would be that.

But when they got down there, they realized it was a lot more complicated than that. And once you start involving, can I say, hundreds of lawyers in anything, it is going to drag on. The difference between the two teams was that Jim Baker went down there to preserve an election he believed he had won. And the Democrats went down there to contest an election. And contesting an election is a lot more difficult than preserving one.

COSTELLO: That's so interesting. I was just going to -- I'm just wondering about Al Gore and his team. Are they bitter?

BORGER: They're not over it, I'll tell you that. And they're not bitter. And that was surprising to me. They're very reflective about it -- obviously 15 years gives you an awful lot of time. But they admit the mistakes they made. One of them said to me, you know what, we brought a knife to a gun fight and we'll never do that again.

And they realized, Bill Daley, whom you saw just a moment ago, says, you know, we shouldn't have conceded the first time on election night then we wouldn't have had to take it back and seem like a sore loser. That label really kind of hurt Gore throughout the entire process.

So I keep saying, we live in a world of spin. We get spun every day by politicians. These folks are looking back on it, on both sides, as an important moment in American political history. And they're actually reflective about it, which to me was refreshing.

COSTELLO: Definitely. I just remember the inauguration that year because I covered it and how depressing it -- it was just raining and it was cold. It was just kind of depressing.

BORGER: It was -- it was an election to remember, let's say that.

COSTELLO: That's very true. Gloria Borger -- can't wait to see the special. "BUSH VERSUS GORE: THE ENDLESS ELECTION", airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:28] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 58 minutes past.

Shocking video -- a vicious attack on an Uber driver in California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of my car or I will call the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got to tell you something you little (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out.

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm giving you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The driver, Edward Tivan (ph) says he asked the passenger to leave his car for behaving erratically. But as you saw, instead of getting out, the passenger started beating Tivan him in the head. That's when Tivan let him have it with that pepper spray. The passenger was arrested and charged with assault and public intoxication. The U.S. Navy is now using a remote sub to confirm if wreckage

found this weekend is that of the missing cargo ship "El Faro". It vanished last month in the Caribbean. 33 people, mostly American workers were on board. On Friday the owners of "El Faro" filed legal action that could block lawsuits by families of the missing crew members.

And the calendar says November 2nd, but the deal suggests Christmas. Now that Halloween is over, major retailers are already offering holiday discounts. Target has free shipping until -- and returns until Christmas. And their app Cartwheel will offer half off on a different toy every day. Toys 'r' Us also launched its special Christmas deals. And Wal-Mart has discount pricing under way from everything from electronics to kitchen wear. Shoppers can also scan products in stores with their phones to add to their wish lists. Now you know.

[11:00:05] Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.