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Terrorism Suspected in Russian Plane Crash; Standoff in San Diego. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 04, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

LT. SCOTT WAHL, SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Use every option available to try to make this -- the situation come to a peaceful resolution.

QUESTION: Have you been able to make contact with him through a negotiator, through the phone? And, oh, by the way, there was a woman taken into -- and at least questioned in the police car. Has she been helpful?

WAHL: So, we do have the maximum amount of resources deployed in this situation. We have our SWAT team, which is surrounding the entire apartment. We also have our emergency negotiation team on scene.

And we're exhausting every effort to try to bring this to a very peaceful resolution. We have no information on any injuries at this point. Again, this is all very preliminary information. This incident is still rapidly evolving as we speak right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a couple of people I have with me to walk through all of this. I have former assistant director of the U.S. Marshals Office and CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick.

Thank you.

But, first, Tom Mallory, I definitely want to go to you, a public safely editor and online news editor at "The San Diego Union-Tribune."

So, Tom, we were just watching a news report from an affiliate reporter saying essentially as long as she's been at that apartment, there have been consistent gunshots. Is that what you all are hearing, that this has not stopped?

TOM MALLORY, "THE SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE": Yes.

Common is their story, and people we're interviewing in the neighborhood as well are hearing repeated rounds of shots. One person said there was 20 or 30 rounds fire in just a few minutes. One report had about 30 shots fired just as police were arriving.

BALDWIN: And for people who aren't as familiar with San Diego, can you just walk us through -- when we're talking Bankers Hill or Little Italy, that's just up the hill from the airport, correct? MALLORY: Exactly. It's right between our scenic Balboa Park and the

airport. Airplanes arriving fly directly over this street pretty much.

People familiar with San Diego know it's a downtown airport. The airplanes are pretty close in. This is also a relatively nice residential neighborhood right near our downtown, in the center of our city, a mix of apartments and older homes. People there are obviously quite rattled, as you can imagine.

BALDWIN: I cannot even imagine. Lunchtime there, I know a lot of people are out and about, being told to say away. We saw the crime scene tape. Is this a massive apartment complex or is this one singular building?

MALLORY: It's one singular building. It's about six stories. The report we had is the shooter was on the top floor of the building firing down.

One thing interesting, we had a police reporter across from the police spokesman who said, I would come talk to you, but I don't want to get shot at. Let's do it by telephone.

BALDWIN: That's incredible.

(CROSSTALK)

MALLORY: Police are urging us also to avoid showing their positions, fearing the gunman inside might be able to use that to his tactical advantage.

BALDWIN: Wow. When you're talking about all of these shot after shot after shot coming off, what do we hear from police? High-powered rifle? Are you hearing anymore?

MALLORY: It's still kind of sketchy in that, and sketchy in terms of the details that are still coming out. The initial report that they had was someone with a high-powered rifle was shooting down at them.

And you can see both from the footage we have seen on TV as well as our photographs, they're taking no precautions -- no precaution they're not taking. They have snipers across the roof. The chief of police is coming out there to make sure officers were safe and deployed properly. They have called for help from the sheriff's department. our county sheriff's department is pitching in too. It seems like a major response.

BALDWIN: I'm looking at a picture on your "San Diego Union-Trib" Web site now of a SDPD sniper on a nearby rooftop. Tom, stay with me.

Art, let me just bring you in. Again, I think Tom brought up a great point. We're being really careful as well. This is an active situation. We don't want to give away tactics, what police are doing to assuage this individual to peacefully give up.

But what are police doing to try to end this? ARTHUR RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the one thing

that's interesting, I think the initial call was a domestic disturbance.

BALDWIN: That's right.

RODERICK: Is this a hostage situation or is this a barricade situation? Each one is obviously treated differently. Now, it sounds like he's got the advantage of being on high ground.

You're right, they're putting snipers on alternate high ground probably across the street and areas where they can view the rooftops. But if he's got a high-powered rifle and he's up in the high ground area, then obviously you have got situations where you want to maintain an inner perimeter, but you also have to make sure you're evacuating or trying to get people out of the immediate area, because with a high-powered rifle, these rounds can go right through an apartment building wall.

BALDWIN: Tom, let me pivot back to you. Do you know anymore about -- we know the call came in right around 9:00 I think your time for that domestic violence situation. Do you know anymore, if there is someone else in that apartment?

MALLORY: I do know that a woman who was believed to be inside the apartment is now reported safely in police custody. They got her out there. I do not think they suspect anybody else inside the apartment with him at this point.

BALDWIN: All right, Tom Mallory, thank you. Art Roderick, thank you.

Let me pivot quickly to more breaking news, breaking news on that Russian jet.

[15:05:02]

Barbara Starr is our Pentagon correspondent.

So, Barbara Starr, we heard from the British prime minister's office that they were saying it was a explosive device coming out very quickly and strongly on that. What do you now have?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, hello.

You know, the CNN team across the board has been on this story, and now we know that U.S. intelligence believes it was most likely an explosive device that brought down the plane. I want to read to you exactly what a source told me a short time ago.

This U.S. government official saying -- quote -- "There is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in the luggage or somewhere on the plane." The feeling by the U.S. intelligence community is it was ISIS or an ISIS affiliate. This, of course, they believe happened at the Sharm el-Sheikh Airport in the Sinai when it took off from there, going back to Saint Petersburg, Russia. The feeling, the assessment they have right now is an explosive device

somehow got past Sharm el-Sheikh Airport security measures. They think it was a conventional explosive, nothing very fancy, a security problem at the airport most likely and got on the plane.

You are seeing some confirmation of this in a way. The British government now delaying any flights back and forth between the U.K. and Sharm el-Sheikh. Ireland a short time ago announcing it is suspending flights to Sharm el-Sheikh. We should say the Egyptian government has very strongly said airport security is safe at that airport.

But there is a lot of concern and a lot of doubt. Why? What is the evidence that the U.S. has that this might have been ISIS or an ISIS affiliate putting a bomb on the plane? Well, we know now, according to sources we're talking to, that the U.S. is monitoring ISIS messages, claims of responsibility that have not been made public. We have seen some public claims that some have been sort of dismissed by the U.S. government.

But ISIS communicates on its own classified channels, if you will. The U.S. monitors that all the time and they are seeing some messages internal to ISIS and ISIS affiliates.

Another point to make, officials are telling us they had no advanced warning that there would be a bomb plot or they would have notified everyone. But in recent weeks, the U.S. had noticed some activity in Sinai by militant groups that had caused concern and in the days since the apparent now bombing of the Russian airliner, they have gone back, they have gathered additional intelligence, and it has bolstered that view.

Is this an absolute conclusion? No, but growing evidence across several governments that it most likely was a bomb that brought down that British airliner -- pardon me, Russian airliner.

(CROSSTALK)

STARR: Killing 224 people.

BALDWIN: This is huge. This is incredibly significant.

If you are just now joining us -- Barbara, stay with me.

I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and all around the world here, as Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent, has just been reporting on the Russian passenger jet. We have been covering the crash here, now learning that the jet was likely most caused -- crash caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate.

A lot of questions. I see Paul Cruickshank. He's been seated next to me, our terrorism analyst here, and Barbara Starr is with me as well.

Barbara, let me back up and go to you because one of the questions would be why. Why target specifically a Russian airliner? And if we're talking ISIS and we will get into who and what affiliates would be in the Sharm el-Sheikh, Sinai Peninsula, we know what's happened with regard to Russian involvement in Syria. And one would wonder because of that if we're talking ISIS sort of the beginning of the answer of why.

STARR: Well, I think it may well be.

You know, the Russians had to have known -- the U.S. has told them publicly, you know, you are going to -- you are going to get crosswise of ISIS. The Russian government has said publicly it was going after ISIS in Syria, that it was going after terrorist organizations that also threatened Russia and Russia certainly does have valid terrorism concerns in its country and on its borders.

But the view was that ISIS might decide certainly to take its own actions. So, as they look at these internal messages between ISIS, these claims of responsibility, and the other intelligence -- and I should say we don't know what it is, the U.S. intelligence community obviously not telling us everything they have. They're beginning to put that picture together.

I think what has become so interesting in the last 24 hours, this is now spreading again to several governments, the British, the Irish, taking their own actions to ensure their aviation security. They don't want their planes right now going to Sharm el-Sheikh.

[15:10:12]

They don't want planes from Sharm el-Sheikh coming back into their country until there is some assurance to their satisfaction that this is a safe aviation route and that the airport to their satisfaction indeed is safe.

British Prime Minister David Cameron calling a meeting of his top security officials to look at this. All of -- I just want to go back and say because I think it's important, the whole CNN team, those of us who cover national security, Pam Brown, Elise Labott, we are fanning out across all government agencies, because every government agency is going to wind up having a view on this and a piece of it.

What does it mean to U.S. aviation security? This is not a direct flight route where any planes would come to the United States directly from Sharm el-Sheikh, but they're going to want to know as fast as possible, Homeland Security, the FBI, all of the agencies, what does this mean? Who is out there that the U.S. government doesn't know about that can bring an airliner down?

BALDWIN: Barbara, excellent reporting to you and our whole nat security team. Stay with me.

Paul Cruickshank, turning to you, initially, we were saying ISIS has claimed responsibility, well, that doesn't mean anything, look at what happened in Tunisia. And now, correct me, but this would be -- when I think of bombs on planes, obviously, you think of hijacking planes on 9/11, you think of the thwarted cargo plot. I think of al Qaeda. Would this be the first ISIS successful attempt? PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Absolutely.

And not only that, this would be the most significant terrorist attack since 9/11, just no doubt about that with the Russian involvement in Syria. If ISIS really was responsible for this, this will turbocharge their popularity in the global jihadi movement.

ISIS is not thought to have the capability to get devices necessarily past those security scanners. But what we're hearing from Barbara's reporting is that U.S. intelligence agencies believe it was either an insider at the airport or somehow lax security at the airport. That brings into play the group on the ground.

That is the ISIS Sinai affiliate. And one of the reasons why it's being perhaps so coy in its statement about the attack, saying that you're going to need to figure out how we did this, is because perhaps they did have an insider somehow at the airport and they don't want to reveal the fact they may have some kind of mole at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport.

It may explain why their statements have so little detail in the last couple of days.

BALDWIN: You will figure it out. I have so much more. This is massive. This would be, as you point out, the biggest terrorist attack since 9/11 as ISIS is now apparently claiming responsibility and U.S. intelligence suggesting that indeed that would be the case, ISIS or an ISIS affiliate. We will stay on this breaking story here.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Quick break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:33]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Massive, massive story here we're following internationally on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin welcoming our viewers here in the United States and all around the world.

We are now hearing from U.S. intelligence based upon our CNN reporting, U.S. intelligence reporting on this Russian airliner, this passenger plane that went down, killing everyone on board just a couple of days ago. They are saying it was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted either by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to an U.S. official familiar with the matter.

They go on. This official tells CNN, there is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the plane. This could have huge repercussions as far as Russia's involvement in Syria. The fact that ISIS could actually pull this off, this is major.

I have Barbara Starr with me, Erin McLaughlin, Paul Cruickshank, Bob Baer, Barbara Starr. So, Erin McLaughlin, let me begin with you there in Egypt. This

happened around the Sinai Peninsula, Sharm el-Sheikh. You are getting reaction from several countries who have halted flights out of there. Tell me about that and also what is security? The question, how someone could have pulled this off. What is security like at the Sharm el-Sheikh Airport?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

Well, at the moment, in terms of the Egyptian reaction to the specific American intelligence reports, we don't have that. But a short while ago, the Egyptian foreign minister telling CNN that he feels it is too premature to draw conclusions when it comes to this investigation.

He said that the investigation is ongoing. Now, earlier today, we heard from the Egypt civil aviation authority. They say that in terms of the two black boxes, the flight data recorder is in good condition. They managed to extract all of the information from that. They're currently analyzing that, but haven't gleaned any information so far.

In terms of the flight cockpit voice recorder, well, they say that that has been damaged and it is going to take more time to analyze. So at the moment, Egyptian officials still exercising caution, still saying that it's too soon to be drawing the types of conclusions that the American intelligence community is making.

Now, in terms of security at the airports, Egyptian foreign minister saying that they have increased security at all airports across Egypt. And this is very different from what Egypt's Interior Ministry was saying yesterday. They were saying that they hadn't increased security because there was no indication, they said, that terrorism was at play.

[15:20:12]

We were at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport yesterday. We were at Sharm el- Sheikh Airport again today. No visible security increases. And this is an area that is familiar with security. Earlier this year, for example, they had an economic summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, increased security, patrols, including border checks along the roads, very heavy security at the airport.

So when they choose to increase security at Sharm el-Sheikh, it becomes apparent. No signs, visible signs, of that so far -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Erin, thank you so much. Stand by for me in Cairo.

Let's go to Saint Petersburg, Russia, our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, standing by.

You have some news for us, Nic. What have you learned?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Brooke, I have been talking to my sources in the Middle East, and a source does confirm to me that he is aware that a bomb was placed aboard that aircraft. There has been concern, according to this source in the Middle East

about the security in the Sinai and the potential for this sort of thing to happen at Sharm el-Sheikh. So this is something that the -- people were aware of in the region, and the bomb, as this source, put aboard the aircraft in Sharm el-Sheikh on board that Russian plane.

Very interestingly, we have had no official Russian reaction to this, now hearing that it's a bomb or what the British prime minister said earlier. However, the Russian Aviation -- Interstate Aviation Commission, which is a top aviation body here in Russia, in the last couple of minutes has issued a statement.

And what they have said in that statement is, it is up to the country that is investigating the accident to publish the information, that being Egypt. They say that it is up to them to complete their investigation and up to them to publish the information. But it goes on to say it is against the law for any other state to publish that information without the express permission in this case of the Egyptian government.

In this way, it gives the Russian authorities a caveat here. If they were aware of this information about a bomb being placed aboard, and it seems a lot of people are now, this gives the Russian authorities grounds to say it's an Egyptian investigation, we can't get ahead of the Egyptians, we have to wait for the Egyptians to say it. We have to wait before we can say for permission from the Egyptian authorities.

That appears to be what is being laid out here by the top aviation authority in Russia at the moment, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nic, stand by.

Bob Baer is with me, former CIA.

First question to you, talking to Paul Cruickshank here, he was essentially saying this would be the Holy Grail, to be able to pull off putting on a bomb on a plane there in Egypt. Are you surprised that ISIS or an ISIS affiliate could actually pull this off?

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Brooke, no.

The Sinai is the middle of an Islamic insurgency. It has a lot of sympathizers, even among Egyptian officials. The Muslim Brotherhood government there was overthrown year before last. Egypt is in turmoil. And the possibility of suborning somebody at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport and putting a bomb on has always been a fear of U.S. intelligence. I know that.

And this is a war zone. It doesn't surprise me at all. And if they used a sophisticated device that was actually concealed in a suitcase, that wouldn't surprise me either, because that technology is so readily available. But what I can tell you, Brooke, this changes the game.

I mean, this is a serious, serious setback for Egypt, as well as Russia, and there will be consequences.

BALDWIN: Such as?

BAER: The Russians, the way Putin thinks, he's going to go stronger into Syria and he is going to -- considering sending troops into Syria, it's not out of the question. The Egyptians are going to crack down a lot harder.

This really does change the game. And I also think we have to look at aviation around the world. These airplane bombs, we cannot completely defeat them, even at the most sophisticated security checkpoints in Europe and the United States.

BALDWIN: Bob Baer, stand by. Everyone, stand by.

Much more on this breaking story. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:52]

BALDWIN: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world.

Major, major breaking news here, as we're getting from our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, really significant reporting here, U.S. intelligence here suggesting that the crash of that Russian passenger jet was the result of a bomb planted on the plane by either ISIS or an ISIS affiliate.

And that official who's familiar with this intelligence says there is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere in the plane, getting details about how security measures at this particular airport in Egypt. And also let me add this. The U.S. does not believe the explosive device was designed to get past airport security procedures, either passenger screening or other security measures in Egypt.

Rather, it is believed whoever was behind it used a conventional explosive device and took advantage of lax security at the local airport or had someone who was in on it at that airport at Sharm el- Sheikh.

Paul Cruickshank, let me just turn to you here, terrorism analyst. You have reported extensively on ISIS.

And, unlike Bob Baer -- former CIA, Bob Baer saying he's not at all surprised that ISIS could pull something like this off, which, as you point out, would be the biggest terror attack since 9/11, you are surprised.

CRUICKSHANK: I'm surprised, because this is the Holy Grail.