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Terror Chatter; Race for 2016; Officer's Betrayal. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired November 05, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:16] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me here.

Got to get straight to this story. Five days after that Russian passenger plane broke apart over the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt, killing all 224 people on board, we are now learning exactly how the terrorist chatter about bomb capabilities led the U.S. to suspect a bomb may have brought this plane down. This as a gaping divide is now emerging between the United States and the U.K., you have them on one side, on the other you have Egypt and Russia. The British prime minister calling Russian President Vladimir Putin after today declaring it is, quote, "more likely than not" the jet was downed by a bomb.

The German airline, Lufthansa, joining the Brits, the French and the Irish all suspending flights out of Sharm el Sheikh Airport there in Sinai. An airport which U.S. officials say is known for, their quote, "lax security." The U.S. not only suspects a bomb was smuggled on board, but that someone at the airport may have played a role.

For its part, the Egyptian government says it's, quote, "premature to make declarations" and the Kremlin agrees saying that any statements made outside of the official investigation are, quote, "unverified speculation."

So with that, I have Ian Lee. He is live outside of Sharm el Sheikh Airport there in Egypt. And Barbara Starr broke this story wide open for us, our Pentagon correspondent.

So, Barbara, to you first. Talk to me about this chatter and the specificity of the chatter and the timeline. What do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we know very quickly after the plane broke apart and crashed into the Sinai desert, the U.S. became very concerned that, in fact, it was a bomb or some sort of terrorist attack against the plane. What we now know, several CNN people are hearing this from various parts of the government, that there was terrorist chatter, if you will. Electronic messaging that was monitored by the U.S. And in those messages, which were not open, public claims of responsibility. They were messages that ISIS had intended to keep private. The U.S. monitoring them. There was language, there was conversation in that messaging claiming knowledge about the bomb, about the airliner, about the specificity of what had happened.

So, you would immediately ask, well, maybe this is just ISIS or ISIS operatives claiming responsibility, falsely bragging about some attack that they want to get credit for. U.S. officials are telling us with very little detail, no, they do not believe that at the moment. They do believe that this was ISIS affiliates in Sinai, communicating with other terrorist elements, claiming specific knowledge of the incident. Again, knowledge of the airplane, knowledge of the bomb, knowledge of the attack.

Now, it all still has to be absolutely verified. The U.S. increasingly letting it be known that they do not believe anyone can come to a final conclusion until everybody sees the evidence. You know, look at the pieces of the wreckage. What is there? Are there explosives? Get a full picture. There is a lot of pressure on everyone to, you know, offer up the information that they have. Very much the U.S. in agreement with where the British are headed with this.

BALDWIN: All right, Barbara, thank you.

As we mentioned, you have the British and the United States and their intel and their statements on one side. You have Egypt and Russia, you know, denying, Ian, any evidence that a bomb, in fact, brought this plane down. You're there outside of the airport. Tell me what it's like there on the ground, flight activity, security changes.

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I've flown in and out of this airport quite a few times and one thing I've noticed today is the increased security. Before you even get on to the airport's property, you go through a checkpoint where they open up your trunk, they're going through luggage, they have a bomb-sniffing dog going around the cars. And then once you get inside the terminal, there's multiple layers of security where they're scanning bags. You go through a metal detector, then they pat you down. And we've also noticed an increased number of police officers also around here and in the parking lot. Again, bomb-sniffing dogs going around checking for anything.

Now, talking to passengers and just about a couple hours ago there were hundreds of people here. And I asked them if they felt safe flying out of here. Almost everyone I talked to said, yes, they did - that they didn't have any security concerns. A lot of them flying to Ukraine and other places. None of those countries that have banned the flights.

[14:05:16] U.K. officials also here, I talked to them about when they believe that they will be satisfied with the security arrangements. They say that they aren't - they don't have a timeline yet. But we know that Easy Jet, a U.K. based carrier who delayed its flight, says that it's going to be operating tomorrow. That they're going to have eight flights taking stranded tourists back home, which could indicate that they have come to some sort of an agreement to make sure at least at this airport security is tight and satisfactory.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Ian Lee, thank you so much, Sharm el Sheikh Airport there in Egypt.

So, let's continue this conversation. I have Graeme Wood with me, contributing editor at "The Atlantic" and fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Also with us, Miles O'Brien there in Paris, our CNN aviation analyst.

So, gentlemen, thank you so much for being with me.

And, Graeme, just turning to you. I know you've written a lot on ISIS specifically. If we're talking about ISIS in the Sinai or an affiliate, how active are they? How sophisticated? How much in touch would they be with ISIS HQ, if I may?

GRAEME WOOD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": So we call them an ISIS affiliate. They really are a part of ISIS, though, and they've had an active insurgency in the Sanai for quite some time. And actually one of the statements that they made pointed out that the date of the destruction of this aircraft was exactly one year after they pledged to ISIS central command in Syria. So they're definitely part of the organization directly.

BALDWIN: What more about this, as we will learn and perhaps a video will reveal itself and more information from ISIS and propaganda wise, but this has to be, if it is indeed terrorism, you know, a tool for them, correct?

WOOD: Yes.

BALDWIN: Recruitment, et cetera.

WOOD: For them, this is a very exciting development, that they have claimed for a long time that they were going to be having attacks like this and now they can show that they can directly touch the Egyptian government, the Egyptian tourist industry. And it's a major development in the development of the group.

BALDWIN: Does it surprise you that they could be capable of this?

WOOD: I'm surprised that they're trying to do it right now. You know there is a big cost to directly attacking western targets in particular. The way -

BALDWIN: Because they'll come after you.

WOOD: Yes, that's right. They have a return address. You know, it's possible to go and to have development of what ISIS is going to do and have some blowback. So by attacking Russia, they might incur Russia's wrath in Syria or elsewhere.

BALDWIN: Miles, to you on the, you know, bomb angle, airport. Again, we don't know if it was an insider at the airport. We don't know if somebody gave - you know, bribed someone and slipped through whatever security exists at Sharm el Sheikh. But what's your response? What's your reaction to this?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, Brooke, by all accounts, this airline wasn't paying its employees for as long as two months. So you have a terrible recipe there of a potential target. A plane filled with Russians that have, you know, shown their presence in Syria and ISIL would want to get back at them in some way. Along with potentially disgruntled and unpaid employees. So that mix is - you know, makes it - makes it possible for this to happen.

And, of course, as we've been talking about for a long time, and this story goes on and on and nothing seems to change, the backside of these airports all over the world, the U.S. included, is not nearly as secure as the security we all go through to get on the plane.

BALDWIN: That's right. We - we talked about a gun smuggling ring, what was it, that the Brooklyn D.A., you know, busted this wide open of these guns heading from, you know, New York to Atlanta. You know, the security isn't up to snuff, if I may. So how would what happened in the Sinai affect all of us globally, airlines, airports, security?

O'BRIEN: Well, if it does turn out to be, you know, a quote/unquote, inside job, it is long past high time that there was a reevaluation of how security is handled on the backside of the airport. And I'm hopeful that this will crystallize things. It's too bad that it has to amount to the loss of more than 200 people's lives to begin this conversation in earnest. As you said, Brooke, a year ago, we were talking about this group of Delta baggage handlers -

BALDWIN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Two people arrested, running guns on planes, loaded guns. I mean, you know, think of the consequences of that. And that just kind of went off the news radar and nothing changed at the airports. That should not have been the case.

BALDWIN: Finally, I'm turning to you, Graeme, how - you talk about how this would empower certainly ISIS. Does it - when I think of an airplane - using an airplane as a bomb, you know, you think of al Qaeda. I know that there are black widows who took some planes down in Russia more recently. But why this method, do you think?

[14:10:12] WOOD: Well, one thing that we have to look at is the way that it's going to affect Egypt in particular. You know, ISIS is trying to target the Arab countries more than anywhere else. They're trying to attack close to home. And this manages to attack both close to home in the form of Egypt, and far away in the form of Russia. So I think what we're looking at is an evolution in the strategy of the group, where they used to be really focused instead on building a state. And now it seems that they're interested in other things as well.

BALDWIN: An evolution in the strategy of the group, though. And when you - when we were listening to some of the reporting from Barbara Starr, that it wasn't apparently even that sophisticated of a device, would you - would you consider ISIS sophisticated?

WOOD: ISIS is extremely sophisticated. They're not just sophisticated in public relations, but in - they have a huge manpower. They have a lot of people who are interested in sacrificing themselves for their cause. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if they were able to manage to have, on their payroll, people in airports and places like the Sinai who are willing to do their bidding.

BALDWIN: Graeme Wood, thank you so much. Miles O'Brien, my thanks to you as well. I appreciate both of you.

Coming up, Russia's reaction. If this U.S. intelligence turns out to be correct, how might Vladimir Putin, already flexing his military muscle in Syria, respond to ISIS here? We'll look into that.

Also, Ben Carson today responding candidly to a CNN investigation into his self-described violent past.

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BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trying to hit my mother in the head with a hammer. That was around the same time as the stabbing incident.

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BALDWIN: And why some of Carson's childhood friends are surprised by his claims.

Also ahead today, the Bush biography. Tough words from former President George H.W. Bush slamming two key figures from his son's administration. And now former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is firing back.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

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[14:16:19] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Republican Presidential Candidate Ben Carson responded today to a CNN investigation about his own violent past as chronicled in his book, "Gifted Hands." And in this it reveals Carson as an angry young man involved in a stabbing, rock throwing, brick hurling and a beating with a baseball bat. But nine friends, classmates and neighbors, who grew up with Carson told CNN they have no memory of the anger or the violence the candidate has described. Here is how Ben Carson answered when our Sunlen Serfaty asked him to give specifics.

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BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of the ones where I threw a rock and broke someone's glasses, that occurred when I was maybe about seven or eight. The stabbing - attempted stabbing incident occurred when I was 13 or 14. The - what's another incident? Give me another one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The punching with the locker -

(CROSS TALK) CARSON: Trying to hit my mother in the head with a hammer, that was around the same time as the stabbing incident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the two incidents before your mother, were those classmates? Were they friends? Were they neighbors? How do you characterize - because our investigation could not find these people.

CARSON: Well, why would you be able to find them? What makes you think you would be able to find them unless I tell you who they are?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) tried (ph).

CARSON: And if - if they come forward on their own because of your story, that's fine, but I'm not going to expose them.

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BALDWIN: That was Carson earlier today and here's the numbers where he stands. A new nationwide Fox poll shows Carson just three points behind Donald Trump as the leading contender for the Republican presidential nomination. That is within the margin of error. And just today the Department of Homeland Security said both Trump and Carson will receive Secret Service protection. That's an aside for you.

But let's talk about all of this with our CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and Matt Lewis, conservative commentator and senior contributor to "The Daily Caller."

Great to have both of you on.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And, Jeff, let me just begin with you. The rocks, the baseball bat and now even the pyramids in Egypt. What's this all about?

ZELENY: I mean - I mean this is what you get when you're the frontrunner. And Ben Carson now is, at the moment at least, one of the Republican frontrunners. So this is a really interesting story. I mean Ben Carson talks a lot about his childhood and how violent he was. Now he was saved by God, he say, at several points along the way. He uses this as a central moment in his stump speech as he reaches out to evangelical voters. So we went to Detroit to visit a lot of his friends and childhood friends to see if this matches the person that they see now. And to a person everyone said, no, it does not, he was calm and mild mannered. We would have known this. We would have remembered this.

So it's one of those moments where it's a fact check moment from something early in his life, of course, but it speaks to an incident that he talks about on the campaign trail a lot. And you mentioned the pyramids in Egypt. That is something that he talked about in a speech that he gave some 20 years or so ago. He said that the pyramids in Egypt were actually used to store grain. And he was asked again earlier this week and he said he still believes that. So some interesting insight and thoughts into this Republican frontrunner at this point, Ben Carson.

BALDWIN: OK. You say interesting insight here. My friend Matt here says this in a "Daily Caller" piece. Quote, "let's be honest, Ben Carson is an interesting cat. That's not all bad. Unusual people change the world. Some of my best friends are weird. But if I were to run into him at some event having no knowledge of his academic pedigree or accomplishments and he started talking to me in that sort of whispering voice, I would probably smile and nod and then slowly back away making no sudden movements."

[14:20:02] Matt.

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY CALLER": Yes, he's a weird guy. Let's be honest about it. And, look, I mean, if you're a world class neurosurgeon, I think by definition you're on a different intellectual plane than the rest of us. Also, if you're an African- American conservative, you are by definition a very slim minority, a sliver of the population. That's weird by definition. And then you talk about the pyramid thing. It wasn't just the grain. It was that he - he says that the Biblical figure Joshua, I think it was, stored grain there. That ties in the whole religion thing. We've seen Donald Trump talking about the Seventh Day Adventist angle to this story. So, look, I think the -

BALDWIN: Is this about votes and evangelicals? I mean what is this?

LEWIS: I have never heard this theory before. I am an evangelical. It strikes me as unusual, to say the least. And he's a very interesting guy. But the weird - the really weird thing is, of course, he's winning right now.

BALDWIN: He is.

LEWIS: And the fact that I - that I sort of viscerally see him and think, well, this guy's a little strange. I'm obviously in the minority amongst a lot of Republican voters right now.

BALDWIN: It is resonating. It is indeed.

Jeff Zeleny, let's pivot and talk about Jeb Bush. If you, you know, take a look at "The New York," Gabe Sherman (ph), the headline -

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: "To save campaign, Jeb Bush hires TV wizard who trains Fox News anchors." Who is Jon Kraushar?

ZELENY: Well, Jon Kraushar is a - you know, he's a consultant who works with political candidates, who works with some television personalities as well and he has a relationship with the Bush family. He worked for his family, President George H.W. Bush, for Dan Quayle, of course, his running mate back then. He also worked with Paul Ryan when he was selected to be the GOP running mate in 2012. So he's just someone who sort of helps bring yourself to life on camera, if you will. But Jeb Bush isn't exactly owning this. He told some reporters in New

Hampshire yesterday that, you know, the main advice was that you should just be yourself. And a reporter asked, well, you need a consultant to say to be yourself? And he's like, yes, it's kind of strange, isn't it? So, you know, this always happens. A lot of presidential candidates have consultants like this. But when it comes at a moment of - where everything is being second guessed and questioned, it just does not make Jeb Bush look very strong.

BALDWIN: We'll see if it gets him out of the single digits. Uh-huh. So, Jeff Zeleny and Matt Lewis, thank you both so much.

LEWIS: Take care, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And - thank you.

And make sure you watch "The Lead" with Jake Tapper because he will be interviewing Republican Presidential Candidate Ted Cruz. That is today in the 4:00 Eastern hour here on CNN.

Coming up next, just the stunning story of this Fox Lake, Illinois, police officer set off this it massive manhunt when he staged his own death. Up next, we'll talk to a reporter there in this community. He's interviewed the officer's wife and son. What they told him, what they knew, next.

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[14:27:06] BALDWIN: He was hailed a hero after his death, but now Fox Lake Police Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz will be remembered much differently. A day after learning his death was not at all a homicide, but rather a carefully staged suicide designed to cover up that he was stealing from a youth program, now a charity that gave the officer's family $15,000 says, we want our money back. The 100 Club, which assists families of first responders who lose their lives in the line of duty said it, quote, "must stay true to the group's mission." Gliniewicz's family did not reply to the group's request, only issuing a statement asking for privacy.

Let me bring in Lee Filas. He's a staff writer at "The Daily Herald," has been covering this story for quite a while.

So, Lee, you're such an important voice here. I know you've also known this officer's son since he was 13. So I want to get to that in just a second.

But first, tell me about your reporting. How is it that these investigators were able to, you know, unravel this embezzlement, this staged suicide. Tell me about the texts.

LEE FILAS, STAFF WRITER, "DAILY HERALD": From - from what it sounds like, they spent at least 60 days, if not more, going through numerous texts, hundreds of e-mails to try to pin this whole thing down. It was a long, slow, drawn out process, as they said here in the press conference.

BALDWIN: What about the texts? What did they see?

FILAS: I'm not sure if I understand the question. What do you mean?

BALDWIN: The text messages from Gliniewicz?

FILAS: Yes, what about them?

BALDWIN: Can you tell me about them?

FILAS: Sure. There was text messages that were taken out specifically saying different things about what he - where he was hiding money and whether or not he was hiding the money in the right location and, you know, somebody's going to have to pay back some money and stuff like that.

BALDWIN: OK.

Then to the son, D.J. I want to show part of your interview with D.J., who you first met when uncovering Lt. Gliniewicz's involvement with this, you know, popular program in the community, the explorer's program, with these young people. And D.J. addressed the rumors that his father had committed suicide. Here he was.

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D.J. GLINIEWICZ, OFFICER'S SON: I talked to him the Friday before he passed away. And all he was talking about was is he couldn't figure out if he wanted to go to Vermont or Lake Tahoe for Spartans (ph). And he's applied for several different chiefs positions at police departments. And someone who wants to take their life, they don't plan a future. They don't go around telling everyone, look, I can't wait to go do this, I can't wait to go do that. I just can't believe it. You just can't - you know, they're attacking our family and our names and it's just, you know, let us have our time to be able to, you know, remember my father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So in talking to him, Lee, did you get any sense that he knew anything about criminal activity or not at all?

FILAS: Not at all. At the time he didn't come off that way. I mean he didn't come off like he was hiding anything or anything like that. And to this point, I mean, I even talked to him since the latest news broke and I haven't heard anything that says, you know, at this point in time, that he knew then.

[14:30:10] BALDWIN: Here is a man, as we have been talking about, got this, you know, heroe's funeral.