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Under Scrutiny, Rubio Releases New Credit Card Records; Egypt: Noise Heard Before Plane Broke Apart; Two Officers Charged in Death of Six-Year-Old Boy; Carson Slams Questions About Violent Juvenile Past; Donald Trump on "SNL" Tonight Amid Protests; Demands for NFL to Kick Out Greg Hardy After Photos Surface. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 07, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:36] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Five o'clock Eastern here in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Poppy Harlow joining you from New York this Saturday evening. And we begin with breaking new details in the race for the White House. Senator Marco Rubio trying to silence critics who accused him of misusing a Republican Party credit card back when he was serving in the Florida House of Representatives. He just released months' worth of credit card statements from 2005 to 2008.

CNN investigative correspondent Chris Frates live in Washington for us with the details. I've looked through these. Certainly, a lot of numbers here. What's the standout?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy, I will tell you, so Marco Rubio has come under intense fire for charging these personal expenses to a Florida Republican Party America Express card when he was in the legislative leadership in Tallahassee and just a few minutes ago Rubio's presidential campaign announced it's releasing 22 months of previously unreleased American Express statements detailing that spending. Now, the campaign says that Rubio had the card for about four years. He charged at about $180,000 during that time, of which $22,000 were personal charges.

Rubio's insisted for years that he paid for all those personal charges himself. Now, the newly released statements cover the time between January 2005 and October 2006, and Rubio charged a total of about $65,000, of which about $7,000 of that was personal. Those personal charges included about $1,800 for a hotel and a car rental when Rubio extended a political trip to Las Vegas. His relatives also live in that area. He also spend almost $3,800 on pavers, that's an expense he referenced in his 2012 autobiography. When he said he pulled out the wrong card to pay for those pavers.

Rubio also spent about 600 bucks at an auto dealership owned by one of his top political donors, gentleman by the name of Norman Braman and in all three of these cases, Poppy, Rubio said he paid American Express for the charges. Now, we just got the actual statements from the Rubio campaign. We've not had a chance to go through those statements ourselves. What we have is a summary and that's what I'm able to tell you about, but what's important to remember here, Poppy, is it's not just the Amex spending that's raised eyebrows. HARLOW: Right.

FRATES: Rubio's faced foreclosure on a home he co-owned in Tallahassee, he cashed almost $70,000 in retirement savings that likely cost him a bundle in taxes and penalties, and remember he splurged on an $80,000 boat. So, critics say, he's not one for making the savviest financial decisions -- Poppy.

HARLOW: He's also said, look, I didn't inherit a lot of money and I think that's resonated with a lot of Americans. Let me ask before I let you go, what do you think he gains by releasing all these numbers? Yes, there's the upside of transparency. Do you think also there's the potential, Chris, that it just prolonged the focus on it?

FRATES: Well, I think what they are trying to do is move along from this. There has been questions about this credit card spending since 2010. It's important to remember here, Poppy, that during his Senate race when he ran for U.S. Senate from Florida in 2010, that two years of these credit card statements leaked to the press, 2007 to 2008.

HARLOW: Right.

FRATES: So we've known a little bit about that spending, which is what has fueled this story so far, and the question was, what did you do in 2005, 2006, with those cards? Rubio's campaign attempting to answer that question today by releasing these. We'll see if this puts an end to it or as you say just adds fuel to the fire.

HARLOW: Chris Frates live for us in Washington, thank you very much for that.

Next to that devastating plane crash that killed 224 people in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. A sudden noise we now know was heard on one of those black box recordings just before the plane broke apart mid-air. Egyptian officials saying bad weather right now slowing down their investigation. It's too soon to know, they say exactly what brought down the plane, but you have U.S. and British officials saying looks more likely that it potentially was a bomb that downed the plane. The U.S. is keeping a very close eye on the investigation, ramping up screenings at some international airports.

Earlier today our Barbara Starr sat down for an exclusive one on one interview with Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I want people to know that there are aviation security officials working on their behalf are continually evaluating threats, potential threats, and that we make adjustments all the time based on what we see, the steps we announced yesterday are the appropriate steps given the investigation is still ongoing, they are of interim precautionary nature. I want to continue to stress that, and we're evaluating whether more is necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [17:05:31] HARLOW: All right, Texas Republican Congressman William "Mac" Thornberry joins me now, he is chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Thank you for being with me.

REP. WILLIAM "MAC" THORNBERRY (R), TEXAS: You're welcome.

HARLOW: You've spoken a lot about your concern, about the U.S. strategy against ISIS and I want to get to that in a moment. I'm interested in whether or not given what has precipitated in the last week, you would feel comfortable with a commercial flight taking off from Sharm El-Sheikh Airport and landing here at JFK. That flight does not exist now, but would you feel comfortable with it if it did?

THORNBERRY: Well, I would feel comfortable if our Homeland Security folks were there where the flight originated and made sure that the procedures were as careful as they need to be. And, you know, that's what has to happen all over the world. We're focused on this particular point of origin in Egypt because Egypt has been the subject of a number of terrorist groups, but the rest of the story is, we know since 9/11 terrorist groups, not just ISIS, but various branches of al Qaeda, are focused on aviation. And they keep adapting and changing their methods to get around our security methods. And they'll keep doing that, but we can't, you know, cower in our homes and refuse to fly because we're afraid they'll figure out some other way to get around our security.

HARLOW: Absolutely not, if you do that then the terrorists win, but looking at the investigation, if it is proven that ISIS is responsible as they are claiming, if they did put a bomb on this plane, how do you want to see it, Congressman? Change the conversation between the President, the Pentagon, and our U.S. forces on the ground fighting ISIS.

THORNBERRY: Yes, I'm not sure it changes the conversation. Good heavens, these people have been very explicit about what they intend to do. They intend to use every means at their disposal and, for example, the A.P. reported not too long ago that various Middle Eastern extremists were trying to buy radioactive material from Russia, so it's not just airplanes, it's all sorts of methods. The question is, do we and our allies have a strategy to defeat them and defeat them over there before they kill Americans coming here?

HARLOW: You've been very vocal and saying you don't think we do. I mean, last week when President Obama came out and announced up to 50 special ops forces will be boots on the ground in Syria, you said possibly too little, too late. So I'm really interested in what you'd like to see from this administration.

THORNBERRY: Yes, well, I think everyone in Congress, Republicans and Democrats, would like to see a strategy that shows some promise of pushing back against ISIL, you know, slowing their momentum down first and ultimately leading to eliminate them. Unfortunately, I think what we see now is more half measures and not -- and maybe an attempt to avoid a catastrophe, but not really anything that is -- so, for example, you've had former Secretary Clinton, among many others say, there ought to be safe havens in the north of Syria, not only to stem the passage of refugees, but also to help equip the anti-ISIS fighters inside Syria. You've had a number of restrictions on us and our allies as far as where we can drop bombs, you know, restricting our forces ability to take effective military action. We've also put restrictions on allies who want to take more action in Syria, but we're saying don't.

HARLOW: But do you want all-out increased warfare, if you will, against ISIS in Syria and Iraq? Do you want to see thousands of U.S. boots on the ground in Syria? Do you want to see a presence in Sinai where ISIS and its affiliates there have increased their threat?

THORNBERRY: No, I don't want that. I want, however, to have effective assistance for the people who are willing to put their troops and not have us hold them back, which is exactly what's been happening as ISIS has gotten -- has grown in its influence, not only in Iraq and Syria, but in many other countries around the world. So, the longer we do half measures, the more it benefits ISIS and their reputation and the more adherence ISIS attracts in all sorts of places. We're seeing it happen today in Afghanistan, where ISIS is growing there partly because of that reputation.

[17:10:20] HARLOW: Congressman Thornberry, thank you very much for your time today, especially I know you're attending the Reagan National Defense Forum there in California, so thank you for taking the time.

THORNBERRY: Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: Coming up next, an unbelievable tragedy. Two police officers are accused of killing a child, a six-year-old, in the back seat of a car in Louisiana in the middle of a police chase. Even their bosses are bewildered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MICHAEL D. EDMONSON, LOUISIANA STATE POLICE: It is the most disturbing thing I've seen. I will leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also, these photos show a woman's brutal attack by her NFL boyfriend. His team calls him a leader, but many voices in pro- football want him out of the league. That story, next.

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[17:14:30] HARLOW: A police chase and a shooting leaving a six-year- old boy dead, and now police have made two arrests, both suspects among their own ranks.

CNN's Nick Valencia has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Late last night two police officers taken into custody, charged with killing a six-year- old boy in Marksville, Louisiana.

EDMONSON: And tonight that badge has been tarnished by the following two individuals.

VALENCIA: City Police Officer Norris Greenhouse, Jr. and Derek Stafford are facing second degree murder charges in the death of Jeremy Mardis Tuesday night, they are also facing attempted murder charges. Both were working secondary jobs as marshals. Investigators say the two men were pursuing a vehicle driven by the boy's father Chris Few when the chase stopped on a dead end street. Police say that's when the officers opened fire. The six-year-old were apparently buckled in the front seat.

EDMONSON: Jeremy Mardis, six-years-old. He didn't deserve to die like that. And that's what's important.

VALENCIA: CNN affiliate WAFB says Mardis was hit five times in the head and chest. His father was critically injured. State police say no gun was found in Few's car. Circumstances surrounding the chase are unclear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what he was thinking. I don't know why he wouldn't just stop. He didn't do nothing wrong.

VALENCIA: The incident was captured on police body cameras. Footage, which has not been released, left state investigators shocked.

EDMONSON: I'm not going to talk about it, but I'm going to tell you this, it is the most disturbing thing I've seen. I will leave it at that.

VALENCIA: Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nick, thank you for that. Police in Austin, Texas, right now trying to find out who shot a state district judge. Judge Julie Kocurek had just arrived home last night when she was hit by gunfire right outside her home. She is now in stable condition. She's been the presiding judge there in Travis County since 1999, she's handled a lot of high profile cases and police are trying to figure out if her case load is what might have resulted in this shooting.

Also, a sexting scandal involving hundreds of nude photos in Colorado, specifically at Cannon City High School just south of Denver. The superintendent there says at least 100 students are involved, including half of the football team. Police say they have three phones, including one with hundreds of revealing images on it. Some students have been suspended. The school has not said how many. Police right now trying to determine if any of the suspects are underage or if any adults were involved.

Coming up next, Ben Carson's life story helped him become one of the top GOP contenders in this presidential race, but now does it threaten to undermine his bid to try to win the White House?

But first, Anthony Bourdain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": It's old, it's new, it's religious, it's secular, it's East and West.

Everybody say that's not normal.

It's the confusing, yet delightful Istanbul. Where one of the oldest, most interesting, unexploited cuisines on earth exists. Let me say this food is so good, where everything is happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Society is boiling, really. But times are going to change it.

BOURDAIN: And where I believe a lot of the next 20, 30 years are going to go for everybody is going to be decided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So many things are happening here, and we have a saying, when the knife hits the bomb, you act.

BOURDAIN: It's a gorgeous place and a delicious one. I like it here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:22:21] HARLOW: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson lashing out last night at the media for asking questions about his violent behavior as a child, as well as an offer that he recounts of being offered a chance to go to West Point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All you guys trying to pile on is actually going to help me, because when I go out to these book signings and I see these thousands of people, they say, don't let the media get you down. Don't let them disturb you, please continue to fight for us. They understand that this is a witch-hunt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Just before these questions arose, a Quinnipiac poll showing that Carson was considered by you, the voter, the most honest and trustworthy candidate. Not just among Republicans, but among Republicans and Democrats. More honest and trustworthy than Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty covering the Carson campaign on the road with them from San Juan, Puerto Rico, last night.

Sunlen, was a remarkably different side of Ben Carson, I think, than we've seen on the trail the whole time.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely was, Poppy. In that room it was tense, and Ben Carson brought to that podium last night a lot of anger, a lot of heat directed at the media. He definitely was much more combative than I've ever seen him before. It definitely was a moment for him. I could tell that this is getting under his skin all this scrutiny and all the questions about his past and his claims of violence as a child, and he's really trying to, I think, take some control over this narrative and really put the focus now more on this intense media scrutiny saying, he never thought that then-Senator Barack Obama went through the same sort of scrutiny when he ran for president in 2008.

But it was certainly an interesting press conference seeing Ben Carson really come out of his shell a little bit to take on this narrative. And later he attended a reception and he had some, I think, poignant comments. He said a lot of people think that I'm quiet, they think that means I'm soft, but I think people, he said, are starting to find out that I can get loud, adding, Poppy, that especially when it comes to when injustice is being served -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Sunlen Serfaty with the Carson camp in San Juan today, thank you very much.

We'll talk a lot more about this with our CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show" is with me. Marc Lamont Hill, the professor at Morehouse College also with me.

Ben, I want to begin with you. The stories that Carson is being asked about.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

HARLOW: What's really important here is that he brought them up, he wrote about them in his autobiography "Gifted Hands," and this story of divine intervention, changing his life, changing who he was, that is one of the most appealing things for voters about him as a candidate. Now he's upset that he's getting vetted on it.

FERGUSON: I don't think he's upset he's getting vetted on it, I think he's upset people are actually doing a witch-hunt on him and obsessing over it and acting as if there's something --

HARLOW: You think it's a witch-hunt?

FERGUSON: I really do.

HARLOW: Why?

FERGUSON: I have no reason to doubt what Ben Carson had to say. He has not ever been caught lying in his professional career, this is 50 years ago, people want a name of somebody that can corroborate what he said when he was very young, he changed those people's names, many people do that when they write a book.

HARLOW: But he didn't notate it, many people notate it Ben when they write a book. They notate names of people.

FERGUSON: Some people don't when they tell stories, public stories, you hear celebrities all the time talk about when they are telling personal stories about when they got started up on a, you know, fireside chat on stage, they'll change names. They don't go, let me notate it to the audience, I'm changing this person's name in this influential moment in my life. I just don't think this is -- I think this is nothing but just trying to trip him up, trying to turn this into a bigger issue than it really is, the same thing with the West Point issue, as well, and I think he's going to end up coming out stronger as a candidate for this because I think people realize this is unfair treatment of Ben Carson.

HARLOW: Marc, you know, it's interesting, the CNN reporters that broke this story went back to Detroit to talk to people about Ben Carson's past. Never once has CNN said that he lied. What CNN did was try to find people that could tell us more about this man who said he had such a remarkable transformation from his youth into the incredibly accomplished neurosurgeon that he became. Do you see that as a witch-hunt?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't see it as a witch-hunt at all. Again, the man is running for president on a theme of conversion, that's one of the central themes of his campaign. CNN, as I understand it, speaking to reporters and people on the ground who have been doing this work, simply wanted to know more about it. They wanted to get to know these people, they want to have texture to the story, and they found it odd. I find it odd that no one, no one, seems to know who this person was, this angry, prone to violence Ben Carson. People say he was quiet, he was soft spoken, and I do think that it's unusual. Do I think it makes him unfit to be president, no, but it does raise other questions when you tell a story that nobody in your past can corroborate. I don't think that it's uncommon, though, for presidential candidates to be asked these types of questions.

[17:27:30] We saw Barack Obama's childhood friends sought after, girlfriends sought after, we've seen this with Joe Biden and the '88 campaign, people investigated who wrote actual speeches for him. I mean, we could go down the list, Jesse Jackson was investigated, Hillary Clinton has been investigated every single opportunity we've seen it, Jeb Bush, all the Bushes. I mean, I don't think Ben Carson is exceptional here, what's unsettling to me, though, is the level of cantankerousness that I've seen come from him in the last few days. Alisyn Camerota asked him perfectly reasonable questions the other day and he was unhinged and made me very uneasy.

HARLOW: Ben, I want to get to this --

FERGUSON: I think he should be mad and I think his point is, I told a story and I was very young when this happened and the fact that when you're investigating a story, at some point the question has to come up, is this really about finding someone to corroborate his life story from the age of 14 and under, or is this just trying to mess with someone that's got a very good campaign going and is rising in the polls?

HARLOW: Wait Ben, why would the reporters want to do that?

FERGUSON: Look, I think it's a great story. If I'm out there with a story and I can't find somebody, it makes a story seem a lot bigger in my opinion to most voters they're going to vote in the Republican primary than it really is. I think that's the point that Carson is saying here going, gosh, really, this is what you're focusing on? This is what you're having to go back to, this is the big got you question? And he pointed that on his press conference yesterday, it's kike they can't believe I didn't have an affair. They can't believe that I don't have a lot of doctors that hate me. They can't believe I don't have a bunch of malpractice issues. They can't believe I actually might just be a really good doctor who is a really good family man, that's a really good father that turned his life around when he grew up in a rough neighborhood.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: I think people they're looking into, they're looking towards the --

HARLOW: Quickly, Marc, 30 seconds, Marc, I want you to get in here, too.

HILL: Yes. I think people do believe he's a great doctor and he's a great family man. I think what people find a little less plausible is that he was able to persuade a gunman in a popeyes to make a different choice so that, you know, he was offered a scholarship to a school that doesn't offer scholarships or that, you know --

FERGUSON: Everyone that goes to West Point goes for free. Their own website calls a scholarship.

HARLOW: Yes. All right, guys, I got to get a break in here. But Ben, you are right, everyone that goes to West Point is on scholarship. That was semantics as an issue there. I got to get a break in, guys, we're going to have you back on the other side, we will keep talking about this.

Let's get a quick break in and we'll be right back.

[17:30:00] We'll also talk about what you're going to see tonight on "Saturday Night Live," Trump. Donald Trump and Cecily Strong there. The Republican presidential candidate prepares for his big hosting gig tonight with protesters outside. What are the risks? What are the rewards? Will he play it safe? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: In a few hours, Donald Trump will host "Saturday Night Live." Protesters, though, are threatening to disrupt the big show tonight, upset about Trump's comments, specifically about Mexican immigrants. A Latino activist group furious about his appearance has offered $5,000 to encourage hecklers to interrupt the program and to call Trump a racist. We'll see if that happens. And we'll see what Trump says tonight as he opens the big show and participates in some of the skits.

Let's talk about all of it with Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson. They are back with me. It's interesting, Ben, because Trump went on FOX yesterday with Bill

O'Reilly and he said there are some skits that I thought were too risque that I turned down, specifically pointing to voters in Iowa he didn't want to alienate. Do you think he risks playing it too safe?

FERGUSON: No, I don't. I think Donald Trump understands TV better than any other candidate that's run in modern political history. He knows exactly what to do, and that is to be Donald Trump. I mean, if I'm his campaign manager, this is probably the perfect place for Donald Trump to be over, any other show I could get him on, including "The Tonight Show," "The Late Show," anything else like that, because this is where he performs. This is what has made him famous. This is why people like him. This also shows you how untraditional of a candidate that he is. And I think for him, I think he'll probably shine at this tonight. This is what he's good at. It's reality TV, and this is just reality TV live. And he's the center of attention and we all know how much Donald Trump loves to be the center of attention.

HARLOW: Marc, do you think that he can do to Hillary Clinton what she did to him when she was on "SNL" a few weeks ago, making fun of Trump, saying that the guy that calls everyone a loser, can he do the same thing to her and get away with it?

[17:35:12] HILL: It's going to be tough. I think for Donald Trump, the stakes are a little bit different. Donald Trump does the "SNL"- style attacks on people every single day on the campaign trail. He mocks every single person in the debate.

(LAUGHTER)

FERGUSON: He does.

HILL: It's a little bit different. I think what Donald Trump has to do for this appearance is be more self deprecating. He needs to make fun of Donald Trump. One thing he never does is talk about himself negatively. This is an opportunity to let his hair down, so to speak --

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: -- to be more comfortable with himself, and to show that he doesn't take himself too seriously. If he can do that, I think he'll become more likable. He sees this as an opportunity to beat up on Hillary, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush. It's going to be no different than the last debate.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Marc, I think you just wrote a script for "Saturday Night Live" tonight. If he takes his hair down, I hope you get credit for it.

HILL: Oh, that would be --

(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: I think there's a hair skit. I believe there is.

FERGUSON: If there's not, it should be -- it's a crime.

HARLOW: Guys, before we go, I want each of you to tell me what "SNL" skit from history you would like to see Donald Trump reenact.

FERGUSON: Oh, gosh, if he could do something on Sarah Palin, I think it would be pretty funny, talking about how he can negotiate with Russia from the top of his penthouse, because it's so high, something like that. I think he would probably laugh at.

HARLOW: What about Marc?

HILL: I want to see him do reading the news, doing the week's news and sitting there. Donald Trump as the straight man, you know, telling jokes without cracking a smile, because he'll break character, laugh at himself, and look cool.

HARLOW: All right, we'll be watching.

Guys, thank you very much. Stay with me, because I want you to weigh in on this news that just broke this hour.

Marco Rubio releasing credit card statements from when he was in the Florida House of Representatives, 2005 to 2008, thousands of dollars in charges. We'll talk about it with Ben and Marc, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:40] HARLOW: Back to our top story, Republican presidential hopeful Marco Rubio's campaign, just this hour, releasing his credit card statements from 2005 to 2008. What these statements detail is the purchases made on that basically state AmEx card over a 22-month period, beginning January 2005, when he was in the Florida house. They note that when he made personal charges, he paid for all of them himself. It was just, they say, a mistake of where he was charging something. This is, bigger picture, coming on the heels of Rubio's finances being very much in the news in recent weeks, especially following the CNBC GOP debate.

Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill back with me.

Guys, I've been looking through these numbers. Our Chris Frates reported on them at the top of the hour. You note the charges from 2005 to 2008, $182,000 total charged, about $22,000 of that personal charges. The campaign goes through here, he paid them all back himself. Does this matter, Marc, in the big picture?

HILL: No, it doesn't. It's funny, as outraged as people are about the Ben Carson, quote, unquote, "witch hunt," which I think is a legitimate investigation, I think some of this is overblown. I think Marco Rubio's financial irresponsibility is something we should raise, if you're going to be the leader of a nation, questions should be raised about your responsibility, but I don't think his credit card charges are something we should hyper-analyze. I think we know who he is, what he is, and we need to make decisions based on that, not based on credit card charges. I think in some sense we're overreaching here, not overreaching in the sense of it being unethical or wrong, but we're overanalyzing it.

HARLOW: It's interesting, Ben, this comes off the fact people spoke a lot about in the debate and afterwards the fact he went through foreclosure, cashed out about $70,000 in a 401K and took a big, big tax hit on that after, getting an $800,000 book deal. For a lot of Americans, they struggle with their finances and they can relate to that. Does this actually backfire and not harm Rubio and hurt him?

FERGUSON: I think people that are pressing this too far, it's certainly going to backfire. One, he was very focused on what he was doing in his job and sometimes when you're younger, you learn the hard way that maybe you can't handle doing everything yourself. Maybe there is a lot going on with finances and sometimes you make bad decisions that affect your life personally and nobody else's. And he learned from those mistakes. But I also think the bigger question is this, the Florida Ethics Commission looked into this, they found no wrong doing. The GOP looked into this, found no wrong doing. He always paid back the money before anyone ever asked for it. If he would have charged things and racked up a big bill and said, whoops, my bad, I'll pay $83,000 or $35,000 back now because I got caught, that would be a story. He paid this back before anyone even looked at these charges, and when he realized he used the wrong card. I would say this. He was a younger man then. He learned from his mistake, if you want to call it that. But I think people trying to turn this into a scandal, they are overreaching. It's only going to help Rubio in this primary.

HARLOW: Do you think, Marc, that this -- look, his campaign laying this all out here, giving -- they also just gave the actual statements over to CNN and the media. Does that help sort of quell this all? Does this mean people will move past it, sort of this giving all the documents, transparency, et cetera?

HILL: I think so, because we're so hyper focused on dishonesty and mendacity that we're not really focused on irresponsibility. Like Ben said, if he were stealing money, he would be all over it. He's not stealing money. He's just bad at business. Does that make somebody a great president? Maybe, maybe not. Does that mean he can't handle a national budget? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you do the national budget on Quick Books, like I said before, so I don't think it's as big a deal as other people do. But I don't think it's going to hurt his campaign. Marco Rubio doesn't seem to be dishonest. He might just be bad with money. And being bad with money, as you said, Poppy, makes him kind of relatable to the every-day American.

HARLOW: But also, at the same time, there's questions about that, Ben, how you handle finances when you're running for the highest office in the land.

FERGUSON: But I also think though, I also think this. When you are younger -- and this was a couple years ago, he was a younger guy, younger politician -- I think there's a lot of really brilliant businessmen in finance and business that have made bad business decisions because they were so focused on the next thing or the next project, and a lot of very successful men I know made mistakes early on and it didn't mean they were bad at what they were doing or incapable or incompetent. I'll also say this. He used the charge card that we're talking about literally more than 1,700 times. We're talking about 22, 23 charges where he accidently swiped the wrong one and paid it back on his own. If anything, this tells me, when no one was watching, Marco Rubio was an incredibly honest young man. Even when he might have been stressed financially, he was an honest young man, and always paid back the money he knew he owed when no one was watching --

(CROSSTALK)

[17:45:44] HARLOW: Got to get a break in. Got to get a break in.

Ben, Marc, thank you, guys, for being on today. I appreciate it very much.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

HILL: Thanks.

HARLOW: Coming up next, absolute outrage after these abhorrent photos are released. This is a young woman badly beaten and bruised by her pro NFL football player boyfriend at the time. The photos now released for the first time. Up next, Christine Brennan joining me, demanding that Cowboys player, Greg Hardy, be kicked out of the league.

But first, we want you to meet another one of CNN's top-10 heroes. His name is Dr. Dan Ivankovich, and for more than 20 years, this Chicago surgeon has provided medical treatment to thousands of patients who simply have nowhere else to get it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DAN IVANKOVICH, CNN HERO: There's over a million people in Chicago that are essentially invisible to the system. They are either uninsured or they are underinsured, but they are very important to me, and that's what I've dedicated my career to. My focus is to improve their lives, to break down the barriers, and help them reach their potential with regard to their injuries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You can vote for your favorite top-10 hero, just go to CNNheros.com.

We'll be right back.

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[17:51:36] HARLOW: An unfolding scandal involving a Dallas Cowboys defensive end has stunned, frankly, all of us. Take a look at these pictures. They shows ex-girlfriend of Greg Hardy badly bruised and battered, published Friday night by "Deadspin." They are not been verified by CNN but show results of abuse which happened last May. Hardy was tried, found guilty of misdemeanor assault and communicating threat after his then-girlfriend testified that he had dragged her by her hair into the bathroom, slammed her head against the wall. She also testified he threw her on a futon filled with assault rifles, and then choked her. Hardy, with the Carolina Panthers at the time, appealed for a jury trial. His ex-girlfriend would not testify in the second trial, so the case was dismissed. The punishment, 10-game suspension, appealed by the union, reduced to four games.

With me now from Washington, CNN sports analyst, Christine Brennan.

You wrote an op-ed on it. You say he needs to get kicked out of the league. You write, "Why does it take pictures to wake us up to what we should have already realized?" Why does it, Christine?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yeah. You know, I don't know. I guess seeing it makes it real. We saw that with the Ray Rice elevator video, which was exactly 14 months ago, and now here we see it again, the power of the visual images. But, Poppy, in this case, I was writing about Greg Hardy, and others were as well, talking about him, literally, at the time of the Ray Rice video, September of 2014, and I've called him a monster in my columns in "USA Today." And for me reading what he did was enough. And I asked the question months ago, should he -- why is he allowed back in the NFL? That he shouldn't be allowed back at all. What happens now, those who followed it closely, we read it and had enough information back then. Now, for the vast majority of people, seeing pictures is the eye opener, as the Ray Rice video was. It's reality of our world today. And, thankfully, we have pictures to see, show people exactly what domestic looks like.

HARLOW: Though Jones, after seeing these pictures, owner of the Cowboys said, in a statement, he said, quote, "We've given Greg a second chance. He is a member of our team and someone who is grateful for the opportunity. He has been given to move forward with his life and career."

This is not the first time, Christine, Jerry Jones has supported Hardy this season. A few weeks ago, he came out and called Hardy a leader during a press conference. To you, who follows the sports world so closely, when do second chances stop?

BRENNAN: I think they stop in this in case, definitely. The other part is Greg Hardy has shown absolutely no remorse. He's laughed it off, made jokes, talked about players' wives what they look like. So the sexism and the misogyny that has continued in his comments, after he's come back to the Cowboys, he was suspended by the league four games. Roger Goodell wanted 10 games. Union saw these pictures, the players union, saw these pictures, some, and then actually fought for the suspension to be lessened, which is mindboggling in and of itself. But I think, in this case, because Greg Hardy is 27 years old, and he is a great pass rusher, he's a very, very good player, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys' fan are saying we want him on our team. I haven't seen any protests. Think about this New York protests from Cowboys' fans, no one taking season tickets back New York parents screaming and yelling in Dallas. We've got our answer. If the Cowboys win games, people are fine with this.

[17:55:03] HARLOW: You note a quote from Holder's girlfriend -- Nicole Holder, the girlfriend at the time, testifying in the first trial. And she said, in part, "I was so scared I wanted to die. When he loosened his grip slightly, I said, just do it, kill me."

Tomorrow, the Cowboys play. When is the point, Christine, when people -- they don't have to petition their entire team but when is it that they stand up with their dollars and eyeballs to perpetrators of violence?

BRENNAN: We did see it happen, Poppy, with Ray Rice, right? He's gone. He's not played again. In fact, I think he should have had a second chance because he's been contrite, he has said all of the right things, wants to help out, and it's been quite a while for him, too. Ultimate irony, that Ray Rice, who has been contrite, is seen as a pariah, despised, and here's Greg Hardy, who I think is way worse, although hard to measure domestic violence and compare it, it's all awful. Here's Greg Hardy, he's got a second chance. I don't know. I must admit, I'm surprised at these pictures, while those of us in the media have been talking about, here we are discussing it it's so important. But they haven't had the same effect as the video did with Ray Rice 14 months ago.

HARLOW: We'll see. They just got released last night. But we'll continue to follow it.

Christine Brennan, thank you.

I'll point everybody to the op-ed today. Go to USA.com.

Thank you, Christine.

BRENNAN: Thank you.

HARLOW: A reminder, you can get all of the latest news at CNN.com.

I will be back with you in one hour's time. But before that, "Smerconish" begins in just a moment.

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