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Trump Lashes Out; Blow Against ISIS; Supreme Court to Hear Abortion Case. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 13, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to it, the breaking news here, top of the hour on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The U.S. Supreme Court just announcing it will hear an abortion case that could be the court's most important pronouncement on this very issue in two decades.

So, let's go straight to Washington to our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, who can break this for us.

What's at stake here? What's the case about?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this will no doubt be one of the most watched cases of the term, with the Supreme Court announcing today it will wade back into the national debate over abortion.

The justices will hear a challenge to key parts of Texas' 2013 abortion law that pro-abortion rights groups say is one of the most strict nationwide. And the restrictions in this law, Brooke, threaten to leave the state with about 10 clinics. Opponents say that it puts an undue burden on women seeking legal abortion and it's a disguised attempt to put an end to abortion.

Supporters of the law say it's meant to protect women's health. One issue, one provision that the justices will be looking at is a provision that requires doctors who perform abortions have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital. The other mandates that clinics upgrade their facilities to hospital-like standards.

The court has not heard a major abortion case since 2007, the stakes very high here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: When would a decision come down?

BROWN: Well, the decision will likely come down some time next spring, early summer, of course right in the heat of the presidential campaign. That is something that is not lost on the justices. And you may recall, Brooke, the last day of the term -- of last term, there was a 5-4 -- the court temporarily blocked the law from taking effect, so a 5-4 decision to say this law could not move forward. That suggests, Brooke, that once again this could all come down to

Justice Kennedy.

BALDWIN: Pamela Brown, thank you very much.

Now to the other huge, huge story we're following today, the war against ISIS, the terror group ejected from a key Iraqi city while their propaganda machine suffers a huge blow. A U.S. airstrike is said to have killed Jihadi John, the chilling voice of ISIS, the brutal masked beheader who took the lives of three Americans on camera.

The U.S. saying it is confident that a Reaper drone armed with Hellfire missiles took the right shot over Syria, blowing up the car the British citizen was traveling in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. STEVE WARREN, U.S. SPOKESMAN FOR OPERATION AGAINST ISIS: We are reasonably certain that we killed the target that we intended to kill, which is Jihadi John. This guy was a human animal. And killing him is probably making the world a little bit better place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This as we get word the ISIS reign in at least one city is now over after killing and raping citizens of Sinjar, subjecting many thousands to lives of slavery. The Kurds have moved in, so bolstered by U.S. coalition-led airpower.

This two-day war to reclaim the city has just been declared a success.

So to our Pentagon we go, to our correspondent there Barbara Starr.

How will we know definitely whether or not they got him?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It could take awhile. And technically they may never actually know.

But here's where it stands right now. British and U.S. intelligence services are scouring everything they have, looking for social media accounts, intercepted communications, any indication from the ISIS organization.

Sometimes, when these leaders are killed, they post funeral messages, that sort of thing. So they are going to be looking for that as some sort of ultimate confirmation. But what we do know, the drones had followed him around for about 36 hours when they picked up his trail and they followed him in Raqqa, Syria, as he made several stops, went into buildings, came out, and at the last site, he went into a building, came out, got into a car and that's when they took the shot.

Under the rules of engagement that the military has, they had their so-called eyes on him at all times. They are convinced that that was Jihadi John and that he got into that car and that's when they took the shot. They don't have people on the ground. They don't have the dead body

to verify this. They don't have the DNA evidence, but they trailed him the whole way and they really do believe they got him.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, it's huge. Thank you so much.

Certainly for families and friends of different ISIS victims, the probable end of Jihadi John is absolutely personal. The masked man taunting them before slaughtering their loved ones. Peter Kassig was murdered by ISIS nearly one year ago. He was just 26 years of age.

While in captivity, he converted to Islam, changing his name to Abdul- Rhaman Kassig. Kassig joined the U.S. army in 2006, was deployed to Iraq the following year. After his honorable discharged, he answered a different calling. He founded a nonprofit to deliver humanitarian aid to Syrians. ISIS militants captured him in 2013.

[15:05:06]

Joining me now, journalist Sulome Anderson, a friend of Kassig's and also she is the daughter of ex-hostage Terry Anderson, who spent seven years in captivity before Shiite militants released him in 1991.

Thank you so much for coming in.

SULOME ANDERSON, FRIEND OF ISIS VICTIM: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: I just wanted to hear the personal stories of people who obviously have lost loved ones through this murderer. When you first heard the news, what was your gut reaction?

ANDERSON: I mean, I'm not wasting any tears on him.

But I think the larger problem here is, as somebody asked me earlier in an interview and I replied that Jihadi John was essentially like a wart on ISIS' nose. He's the first thing we notice, but his loss is not going to cause...

BALDWIN: So many others right above him.

ANDERSON: Exactly.

BALDWIN: He's symbolic. He's the person we see in the videos with the knife, but there are so many others who the coalition needs to take out.

ANDERSON: Exactly. And they are not paying the price for what they did.

BALDWIN: Let me look down. I want to read a piece from an article you wrote before his murder.

Quoting you: "To those he helped, America is Peter Kassig, a kid from Indiana who sat in the filth and rubble with them and put bandages on their wounds, liked cracking jokes while he did so. He's everything that's right with our country, that drive we have to find, to fix, to help and to save."

Tell me about the last time you saw him in person.

ANDERSON: I actually threw him a goodbye party because he was moving to (INAUDIBLE) to work with his NGO full-time. And I was leaving as well for awhile. So, I threw him a party. And we -- it was a really great night. And I'm glad that's the last memory I have of him.

BALDWIN: And the last time that you saw his image was on a computer screen?

ANDERSON: Yes. I couldn't watch the whole video.

BALDWIN: How did you expect -- did you ever even think about how we would get Jihadi John? Did you ever imagine how he would be killed?

ANDERSON: Honestly, I hadn't spared him very much thought. To me, he is, as I said, just a symbol.

I think the real criminals, the real culprits, we are not doing all that much to address them in the long-term. So when that happens, I will celebrate.

BALDWIN: Just with your knowledge of Lebanon, we just have been reporting, as well know, in the last 24, 48 hours, these two twin suicide bombings, 41 people killed in the southern part of Beirut near this refugee camp.

As we're talking about victories with hopefully this Jihadi John hit and Sinjar with the Peshmerga there, how influential do you see ISIS now when we talk about them or an affiliate claiming responsibility in Beirut?

ANDERSON: I think Lebanon has a huge ISIS problem and I think it's only going to get bigger.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Why do you think that?

ANDERSON: Well, I have been watching that develop for about two-and- a-half years now. I have been reporting it for "New York" magazine and "Foreign Policy" and others.

As I have seen them just gradually -- whispers of them grow to having a pretty solid foothold in certain areas and now I think they have realized that this tactic of mass terror killings in Lebanon is extremely effective. The situation there is extremely unstable. It won't take very much to send it over the edge. So, yes, it really worries me.

BALDWIN: Message for Peter's family?

ANDERSON: I'm actually going to be seeing them soon, so...

BALDWIN: Save it for them in person. ANDERSON: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Save it for them in person.

BALDWIN: Sulome Anderson, thank you so much for the time. I really appreciate it.

ANDERSON: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, to politics and Donald Trump on this tirade against Ben Carson, calling him pathological. It all started with this interview with my colleague Erin Burnett here at CNN. We will talk to Erin. She will join me on set about what was going on behind the scenes of this bizarre interview.

Plus, Ben Carson raising some eyebrows, saying he has intelligence that the Chinese are in Syria. Now, the White House says not true. After backlash, Ben Carson is now revealing his sources. We will get into that. Welcome to election 2016, folks.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:27]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump before he went on that 95-minute tirade in Iowa last night, the Republican front-runner talked to my colleague Erin Burnett ahead of time. We got a bit of a preview of what was to come, definitely unloaded here. He unloaded on Ben Carson. He unloaded on critics of his immigration plan.

I want you to listen here as he then doubled down on his plan to deport 11 million people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: How do you take 11 million people and make them leave?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You do it through a process. You do it in a very humane manner.

BURNETT: But they are not going to want to leave. You're going to have to hire a lot of people to find them and get them over the border, right?

TRUMP: First of all, they are here illegally. If a person comes across the border and you send them right back, the Border Patrol sends them right back, there's not a big court situation. They send them back. They are here illegally.

BURNETT: Yes. But what about the guy already living in Detroit? TRUMP: What's the difference between somebody who comes over the

border for two days, he gets caught and they bring him back, and somebody that comes over the border, he's here for a year and you bring them back? There's no difference. What I'm saying is...

BURNETT: Logistically, there's a difference in terms of finding them and getting them to go.

TRUMP: We have to find them.

BURNETT: That's cost the money and you have to have the people. That's how I'm trying to understand what you do.

TRUMP: Well, you can also do E-Verify. You do know that. You can do E-Verify, where the employers are not going to be hiring them and then everyone is going to go back. That's one way of doing it so that you don't have the problem.

BURNETT: There's been an estimate out there, which you've seen, right? And I'm sure you'll say you can do it cheaper, but the number is big. To get all these out of the country...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: These are people that don't know what they are talking about.

BURNETT: They say $600 billion.

TRUMP: They also say --

BURNETT: That's bigger than the Department of Defense contract.

TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.

They also say it's $15 billion to build a wall that I will do for six.

BURNETT: So on this point about humanity about, are you going to be sending in officers...

[15:15:02]

TRUMP: We're going to be sending people in a very nice way.

BURNETT: ... a force of people into people's home to get them out?

TRUMP: We're going to be giving notice. We're going to be saying you have to go back to wherever the country is. It's going to be countries, all different countries. It's not one country, back to the country. We will take them back to the countries. We're going to do it in a very humane way.

But between E-Verify and other modern systems, a lot of that will happen automatically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here she is with me, Erin Burnett.

Also with me, back with me, Trump biographer Michael D'Antonio.

So we saw it all play out for 95 minutes in Iowa. You, my friend, got the preview. Tell me more about what was said in the behind the scenes?

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: He was passionate about it. He wanted to talk about it, right? There's no question. He believes in what he's saying.

He was in good spirits. He was excited to go out to his Iowa rally, his Iowa event, of course. And we all saw now.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Doing the demonstration with the belt buckle. Right?

But he believes his plan can work. He's tapping into a Zeitgeist where a lot of people have frustrations. The story he told there was of a story this week of a Dallas policeman being run over multiple times and essentially scalped by the car, but someone had been deported three times and was in this country illegally.

He tells those stories. He taps into that Zeitgeist. There are a lot of people who say that shouldn't be happening any illegal immigration plan that allows that to happen is not OK. That is what he's doubling down on and that is the audience he's going for.

BALDWIN: Let me play more. This is more from Donald Trump. This is what he said about Ben Carson's past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He said he's pathological. Somebody said he has pathological disease.

Other people said he said in the book and I haven't seen it -- I know it's in the book -- that he has got a pathological temper or temperament. That's a big problem, because you don't cure that. That's like, you know, I could say, they've say you don't cure -- as an example, a child molester, you don't cure these people.

You don't cure a child molester. There's no cure for it. Pathological, there's no cure for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The pathological, the child molester, the no cure, you got it first. The nation and Iowa got it later on in the night. My question -- I want to bring you in as well, having sat with him for a number of interviews -- how much of that is choreographed, what he's thinking about, what he's going to say, the lines he uses

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, JOURNALIST: I think this stuff is in his head a lot.

He thinks about words like rapists, murderers, pathological, child molester.

BALDWIN: Why?

D'ANTONIO: These are hot words. So if you say that kind of thing, you get attention.

I actually wrote a book about the Catholic sex abuse crisis. And a lot of people I know who were abused as children are outraged today. They don't think you should just throw around this word child molester as if it's an example of something and attach it to a person who is just another candidate for office. This is a horrible thing to do.

BALDWIN: It was not off the cuff.

BURNETT: No, it was not off the cuff. I think he did it purposefully. And obviously the first time he said it was in that interview. I don't know whether that was a trial balloon or not from when it really exploded in his rally last night.

But I think that he believes it is a fair word, because what he's saying -- and he was very careful to say -- that the situation he says is, why are we in a situation where if someone is telling the truth about their past, they are admitting that they tried to hit their mother over the head with a hammer and that gives them credibility?

So, he's saying, do you want someone to be president who once did those sorts of things? So, in his mind, that does equate to child molester, someone who tried to kill their mother, child molester. That's hospital Donald sees it.

D'ANTONIO: I think that's how he sees the world.

BURNETT: That is right. So to him, to bring this home, to make the point clear, because I think he felt people did not -- people were focusing on, is Ben Carson telling the truth? And I don't think he thinks that is the right question.

He thinks the question is, if it is true, it is a problem. And he wanted to change the conversation. He's very good at doing that.

BALDWIN: What else did he say that jumped out at you?

BURNETT: In terms of the -- you're talking about the use of the word pathological and his ability to hone in on a word and make a word come alive for people.

He used that word eight or nine times in one answer, pathological. And he was very careful to say, it's not my word. Ben Carson describes himself as pathological. So, in other words, it's not on me.

But he was -- and he went through every example of what Ben Carson said. Told the story. Told the story. And he knows exactly what he's doing.

D'ANTONIO: He's a very attuned person. He understands psychology. He understands how to manipulate people.

He's been kind of on this long publicity con for his whole life, expanding his own credentials, expanding his own achievements and then dismissing other people. This is why he calls people stupid or fat or ugly.

BALDWIN: Manipulate, though, is pejorative. You could also say really rallying.

D'ANTONIO: Yes.

BALDWIN: So many people have really -- you saw the people, the crowd behind him in Iowa last night after he was using these words after your sort of trial balloon interview and people were like, yes. So I guess we shall see.

[15:20:03]

BURNETT: He is touching on something real on the illegal immigration issue.

BALDWIN: He is, yes.

BURNETT: Which is people don't think it's fair when a lot of people wait years and years in line to become citizens in this country for other people to come in illegally, and by virtue of having a child, get all the benefits of citizenship.

There are a lot of people who are not radical right-wing people who have a problem with that. And that's what Donald Trump is trying to connect with.

D'ANTONIO: And people have strong feelings and they like to see feelings expressed in a strong way. It's kind of refreshing. And the entertainment value is really high.

BALDWIN: Michael and Erin, thank you so much.

Make sure you watch her 7:00 each and every night here on CNN, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT."

BURNETT: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You got it.

Coming up next, Ben Carson, he is doubling down on his assertion that China is currently engaged in the crisis in Syria and the war there. He also says, by the way, he has better sources than that of the White House. We will discuss coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:10] BALDWIN: The Chinese are inside Syria. Did he say it? Didn't he?

What did he mean?

Presidential candidate Ben Carson pushing back, slamming the media over exactly what he meant when he was asked about U.S. operations inside of Syria during this week's Republican presidential debate.

Here is Dr. Carson in his own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we have to recognize is that Putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the Middle East. This is going to be his base. And we have to oppose him there in an effective way. We also must recognize that it's a very complex place. The Chinese are there as well as the Russians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was this week in the debate. For the record, U.S. officials are saying they have no idea what he's talking about.

For his part, Ben Carson says his intel on Syria is better than the president's.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I have not seen evidence of Chinese military involvement in Syria.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Someone did tell me that he said that earlier today.

(LAUGHTER)

EARNEST: I guess it's not common that -- maybe it violates my job description as a spokesperson to be speechless. But I think, in this case, I am.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. So joining me now, Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN senior political correspondent and Jim Sciutto, our chief security correspondent.

Nia, to you first.

Ben Carson said he had these sources about China in Syria. You have these documents and the sourcing. Where is this coming from?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We have got the documents here. It's about 15 pages.

Part of it is a newspaper clip. Part of it is a statement from his communications director, Doug Watts, commenting on what's happening here and he essentially chalks it up to a misunderstanding. Here's what he had to say.

"China has had longstanding and well-documented security ties to Syria and has provided various military weapons and equipment that Syria is using in the current conflict. Dr. Carson does not believe China is currently fighting in or deploying troops to Syria, and contrary to press reports, he has never made that assertion."

That's a common tactic of the Carson campaign, to sort of blame the press for things. But we are reaching out to the Carson campaign to figure out who their sourcing is. A man named Sean O'Connor's name is on part of these documents -- and the documents, other four-color photographs and things like that and radar images.

But, yes, this is something that the Carson campaign addressed today. They first made this assertion in the debate, saying that China was there in Syria, which obviously people took to mean that China was in fact there and had a presence, not that China was essentially selling supplies to Syria.

BALDWIN: OK, so, supplies, weapons on the ground.

Jim Sciutto, I know you have got all kinds of great sources at the Pentagon. Tell it to me straight. What's the situation in Syria?

(CROSSTALK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: He said we didn't do our homework. We did do our homework. We reached out to military officials and they say there's no evidence of a Chinese military presence on the ground in Syria. They haven't seen it.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: As Nia said, the campaign walked back the comment to some degree to say what he's really talking about is that China has sold weapons to players in Syria. And that may well be true.

The fact is, a lot of countries sell a lot of weapons to a lot of places, countries from all over the world, the U.S. certainly included, the Chinese, the French, the Italians. That does not constitute necessarily a military presence in that country.

It's certainly an influence, but the fact is, if you were going to pick the countries, the principals involved in Syria, you have a long list before you get to China. Let's be frank. You have the U.S. You have a whole coalition of countries flying bombing missions there right now alongside the U.S. Now you have the Russians. You have Israeli jets that have been striking in there. You have the Saudis supplying Syria's missiles to some of the weapons groups and so on.

You have a lot of players in there with a more significant role before you get down on that list to China selling some arms to the Syrian government.

BALDWIN: OK, Jim Sciutto, thank you for setting us straight. Nia- Malika Henderson with the documentation, thanks to both of you. Let's talk about all of this, about Carson's China in Syria claims, with former CIA counterterrorism analyst. CNN political commentator Buck Sexton is with me.

So, good to see you, sir.

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: To Jim Sciutto's point, you would have to go down a really long list before you get to China. You heard Josh Earnest laugh at the briefing at the White House. What do you make of this whole thing?

SEXTON: I think Josh Earnest laughing about it is a little extreme, a little unfair.

He wasn't saying that China is at war in Syria. I don't think that was what he was going for.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We don't know. That was the issue. We didn't know specifically what...

SEXTON: Yes. And he's clarified and he's walked it back.

Was it a little bit of a stumble? Sure. Do we expect that Dr. Ben Carson, who is a brilliant retired neurosurgeon, is going to be the most adept on foreign policy of all the issues he talks about? No, we do not.

So, it's not surprising.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: That would probably be untrue.