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San Bernardino Shooting; Newly-Released Police Reports "at Odds" with Video; GOP Debate Preview. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired December 05, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: ... watch the entire show, CNN Heroes, an All-Star Tribute this Sunday, 8:00 p.m. eastern and that is tomorrow night, go make great memories today and thank you so much for making us part of your morning.

I want to turn it over now of to my colleague Fredricka Whitfield.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hi Christi, how are you doing?

PAUL: How are you?

WHITFIELD: Good, busy morning.

PAUL: I know. I'm going to let you take it away.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much, have a great, appreciate it.

PAUL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, hello everyone, it's the 11:00 eastern hour, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, Newsroom starts right now.

And we began with new developments Wednesday's shooting rampage in San Bernardino, California. An ISIS radio station announcing this morning, the two shooters were "supporters" of the terrorist group. Tashfeen Malik and her husband Syed Rizwan Farook killed 14 people and wounded 21 others by opening fire at the Inland Regional Center. They both died in a police shootout hours later. An official close to the investigation also telling CNN that the female attacker Malik posted on Facebook pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

While the massacre was unfolding, the FBI announced Friday they are investigating the massacre as an act of terrorism, and that there was evidence of extreme planning. Let's get to CNN's Polo Sandoval who is live for us right now in Redlands, California. So a worrisome night for that community because of a package that was addressed to the shooter's home, what more did we learn about that Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well hello Fred, ultimately it was -- it did turn out to be a false alarm but nonetheless it was enough to leave many people here on edge, because already three days since the shooting and the story is still heavy on the minds of people. This morning, it's all over the local headlines -- happen to be walking down the sidewalk past 53 North Center Street with the reminders right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

San Bernardino on edge overnight, police evacuated a UPS facility and called in the bomb squad to investigate a package, it was addressed to the home of Syed Farook, it turned out to be safe posing no threat. This comes as the FBI announces that the mass shooting is now being investigated as an act of terrorism.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are spending a tremendous amount of time as you might imagine over the last 48 hours trying to understand the motives of these killers and trying to understand every detail of their lives.

SANDOVAL: Another recent revelation about Tashfeen Malik, the female shooter in the Wednesday massacre that left 14 dead and 21 wounded. She posted a Pledge of Allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Facebook while the shooting was happening. The mass shooting may have been inspired by ISIS but the terror group apparently did not direct or order the attack, it maybe a case of self-radicalization, a possibility that's left family members baffled.

SAIRA KHAN, SISTER OF SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: If I asked myself if I had called him that morning or the night before, asked him how he was doing and what he was up to, if I had any inclination, maybe I could have stopped it. Meanwhile, police are downplaying the possibility that Farook appeared angry when he suddenly left the holiday luncheon at the Inland Regional Center only to return heavily armed with his wife.

CHIEF JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE: We had initial information from a witness or someone says that left the party and provided information, that it appeared that he left upset or under some form of duress, there's also indication from other people that he was there, there was nothing out of the ordinary and then suddenly he was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: And so investigators will be spending all weekend poring over all of the evidence that was recovered from inside the townhome but also at several crime scenes Fred, it's going to be very important here that investigators can confirm this potential ISIS link if they -- if that does turn out to be the case. And you are looking at this attack being perhaps the bloodiest one on American soil with ties to foreign terrorists since 9/11, but you hear from the family Farook himself, they say -- really their attorney saying they do not want anybody to jump into conclusions or quick to judge, they still want the FBI to come up with conclusive evidence that their loved one was radicalized.

WHITFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval, that's so much, we'll check back with you.

All right, so let's talk more about this right now with CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Jonathan Gilliam, and CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen, he is also the author of "United States of Jihad, investigating America's homegrown terrorists.

So Peter, let me begin with you. This radio station that is claiming the shooters were ISIS supporters, how credible is this radio station. How would it know whether anyone is indeed a supporter, a fighter or a follower?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well I mean the -- the radio station is believed to be run by ISIS people or sympathizes, behaving opportunistically, I mean they're just saying that these people were their supporters, and I mean everything we know, I mean we heard through the lawyers of the family yesterday, kind of say it's not clear this was -- you know, I don't know what they -- they said it was a very confusing press conference.

[11:05:04] But we know from the FBI, from multiple FBI officials talking to CNN that she pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and the facts sort of speak for themselves.

WHITFIELD: So Peter, what are your instincts telling you about this woman, who was from Saudi Arabia and that she came to United States on this - fiancee visa status, do you believe that she may have been groomed long before her journey to the U.S. groomed by ISIS?

BERGEN: I doubt it. I mean if you look at -- I mean she was living in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia for many years -- you know, was she an ultra-fundamentalist when she met her husband, I mean that's quite possible. Did they radicalize in the United States? The period they live in the United States was a period when ISIS really came to prominence. I mean ISIS as an organization didn't exist when she was living in Saudi Arabia.

So, I mean if you look at the palm here Fredricka, I think it -- he became more devout when he went to Saudi Arabia, I mean his coworkers said that he grew a beard, and there's nothing obviously wrong with becoming more devout, but clearly he was going down the pathway to radicalization at the same time that he met her. And you can certainly hypothesize that they radicalized each other and they clearly have the same kind of world view as time went on.

WHITFIELD: And then Jonathan, let's talk about the investigative end of this, investigators did see some cellphones that were crushed, the home's computer is missing, its hard drive. So these shooters knew how to cover their tracks, you know, can information still be retrieved from them?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure, I mean the card investigators; that is the computer investigators and the FBI are tremendously getting information, they've gotten stuff off of computers that have been burned, hard drives that have been crushed. They may not always be able to get a complete picture but they are going to be able to get information off of those things and that is very, very important. And I'll just say there's one thing falling (ph) with what Peter was saying.

You know, we have to start looking, and as an investigator, we have to look at what is happening inside Islam. We say radicalized but the reality is, Islam has a virus that's running through its blood system just like if we get a virus and it runs through ours and it masks itself. That's why we continue to see people who become more devout. It is a critical time when they can be recruited into fundamentalist thinking and that's what's happening here.

That's something that we really need to start looking at, and the Muslim communities start looking at. Did somebody change quickly once they became more devout in their religion because that's a critical time.

WHITFIELD: Peter, do you want to comment on that?

BERGEN: Well the New York Police Department, which had a -- it's a controversial but influential study of the radicalization process, makes much the same points that Jonathan made, which is, there is a pathway to radicalization and some of -- you know, but there are lots of ultra-fundamentalist in the world, very few of them are terrorist. I mean, anybody who bombs an abortion clinic in this country is almost certainly a Christian fundamentalist. Very few Christian fundamentalists attack abortion clinics ...

GILLIAM: I disagree with you there because Christianity is not built on the same thing that fundamental Islam was built on. Christ didn't go across the -- through the world conquering like Mohammed did 1,400 years ago, so there is a fundamental difference there.

BERGEN: OK. Well, I'm not going to have a theological debate I'm just making the observation that ...

GILLIAM: Which you make those statements in ...

BERGEN: Would you let me finish?

WHITFIELD: OK. All right, finish real quick, go ahead Peter, finish on that.

BERGEN: There are fundamentalists of every stripe, very few fundamentalist do acts of violence, that's -- trying to find the people who are willing to do acts of violence is hard and that's really what we're trying to do here.

WHITFIELD: All right. We're going to see both of you gentlemen, perhaps we'll pick it up from there later on the hour. Jonathan Gilliam, Peter Bergen, thank you so much, appreciate it.

So, as we learn more about the shooters, it is important to remember that people who were gunned down simply because they went to work, attended a holiday party with their coworkers. It's really inexplicable. CNN's Jake Tapper hears from victim's loved ones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: They were cherished family members, best friends, parents, 14 people between the ages of 26 and 60 who spent their final day celebrating together, kissing their loved ones goodbye in the morning, never believing they wouldn't come home.

RYAN REYES, BOYFRIEND KILLED IN SHOOTING: The thought running through my mind was just, no, no, no. This isn't true.

TAPPER: Ryan Reyes drove his boyfriend, Daniel Kaufman, to the regional center Wednesday, as he did most mornings. Kaufman ran a coffee shop there where he trained disabled employees. Kaufman was taking a break on a bench outside when he was killed.

REYES: He meant the world to me. He meant the absolute world to me. Yes. Sorry.

TAPPER: Many of the victims were parents, leaving behind at least 18 children whose worlds are now changed forever.

[11:10:04] JOLENE, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: Overall, she was like an amazing person. Like, she was so nice. Like, she always supported me in everything I did.

TAPPER: Bennetta Betbadal had three children. Her family and friends say she came to America from Iran at age 18 to escape religious extremism.

KEN PAULSON, FAMILY FRIEND: We find it is sadly ironic and horrible that a woman that came to the country under these circumstances would find herself gunned down by religious extremists.

TAPPER: Michael Wetzel leaves behind six children and his wife, Renee. A friend speaking for the family told CNN how Renee learned of his murder.

CELIA BEHAR, FAMILY FRIEND: The large group of survivors came out and he wasn't in it. They told her that if he wasn't in there, then he was gone.

TAPPER: Robert Adams had always wanted to be a dad. He and his wife welcomed a little girl just 20 months ago.

On the fundraising page set up for his family, a friend posted, "He was 100 percent in daddy land."

His family says he cherished every moment with his daughter.

Twenty-seven-year-old Sierra Clayborn and Yvette Velasco were cherished daughters as well. Yvette was an intelligent, motivated and beautiful young woman, her family said in a statement.

On Facebook, Sierra sister wrote, "My heart is broken. I'm completely devastated."

The family of the youngest victim is, too. Aurora Godoy was just 26.

She leaves behind a husband and a 2-year-old son.

This community and the families of all the victims will need tremendous strength to move forward, a trait many learned from their loved ones.

JOLENE: I'm doing OK because what else can I do? I have to stay strong.

TAPPER: Jake Tapper, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:00]

WHITFIELD: President Obama in his weekly radio address says they've been preparing for a threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: It is entirely possible that these two attackers were radicalized to commit this act of terror. And if so it would underscore a threat we've been focused on for years. The danger of people succumbing to violent extremist ideologies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: But this attack came on the very day Obama told CBS ISIS will not pose an existential threat to the U.S. CNN's Chris Frates with us with more on this how it is all shaping the political debate.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning Fred. So, the news that the attacks may have been inspired by ISIS is only fueling Republican criticism that President Obama's strategy to defeat the terrorist group has failed. Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz has called the President's response ISIS unserious, arguing Obama's strategy is driven by politics not national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are seeing the evil of radical Islamic terrorism here at home murdering innocent Americans. And it underscores the need for a strong and serious commander-in- chief who will keep this country safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now for his part Obama has worded publicly for years about the possibility of an attack by a lone wolf that was in fact self- radicalized. Because as law enforcement will tell you Fred, it's incredibly difficult to track terrorists working in isolation, and on the day of the attacks, but before the possible ISIS link was discovered, Obama again downplayed the threat ISIS poses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: ISIL is not going to pose an existential threat to us. They are a dangerous organization like al-Qaeda was. But we have hardened our defenses, our homeland has never been more protected by more effective intelligence and law enforcement professionals at every level than they are now.

FRATES: But even before the massacre in California, Americans expressed doubts about Obama's strategy. A survey out last month found that more than half of those polled disapproved of how the President has handled the issue, and that's not a good sign for the President as his administration comes to grips with what could be the biggest terrorist attack in America since 9/11, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Frates in Washington, thanks so much.

FRATES: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:00]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back, we have new development in the deadly shooting of Laquan McDonald, the teen shot 16 times by a Chicago police officer. CNN has obtained newly released police reports from the Internet. They contain officer's accounts of the shooting that happened in 2014, and they are dramatically different than what the dashcam video shows. We want to remind our viewers the video and images at McDonald's shooting are graphic but it is important to see how they compare to the police reports.

To go through these differences I'm joined now by CNN's Rosa Flores. Rosa, what are the discrepancies?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Fred, we've been looking through these documents, and one of the first things that stood out to me was something in one of the pages that says that Officer Van Dyke was actually injured by Laquan McDonald, by "the offender," and so when all of these pages, the police officers on the scene, including Jason Van Dyke is listed a victim and Laquan McDonald as an offender.

Now, back to the video that you were talking about, and again, we want to warn our viewers because this video is graphic, but I got to take you though it to show you how different the account of Officer Jason Van Dyke is with the video. So, we're going to take you through this. Now we know, as you look at this video Officer Van Dyke arrives on scene with other police officers.

Now we know that within seconds of his arrival he starts firing his weapon. Now on that video you see Laquan McDonald in the middle of the street. He is walking and then here is what Jason Van Dyke's account says. He said, "He was swinging the knife in an aggressive and exaggerated manner." Now, he goes on to say that McDonald waived the knife across his chest and over his shoulder, pointing knife at Van Dyke and attempting to kill Van Dyke.

Now, the officer goes on to say that in defense for his life he shot his weapon and then goes on to say, McDonald fell to the ground but continued to move and continue to grasp his knife, refusing to let go of it. Now, in video that is not what we see. Now we also see that McDonald is on the ground while Officer Van Dyke continues firing his weapon.

Now here is what Jason Van Dyke said in this report in his account and again I am quoting here, "McDonald appeared to be attempting to get up all while continuing to point the knife at Van Dyke," and that the officer, Officer Jason Van Dyke.

Now Fred, I got bring in because here is one of the other things that really does not make sense as we look at the documents. So, that was Jason Van Dyke's account. Now, other officers on the scene on this report, because each officer gives their account, other officers on the scene had similar accounts that don't match what we're seeing in that video. So I'm going to quote from another officer that was on scene. It says, "McDonald ignored verbal direction," and of course we do not have audio on this video that we have, but here is the crux here, the crux of this, "But instead raised his right arm towards Officer Van Dyke as if to attack Van Dyke."

[11:25:06] Of course now, in seeing the video, Fred, we know that Jason Van Dyke's account doesn't match the video, and the account of some of the other officers on scene also don't match the video, Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Rosa Flores, thank you so much. The investigation into this investigation has to intensify, so let's talk more about this. I'm joined by CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former Special Agent FBI -- with the FBI, Jonathan Gilliam; and CNN Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Philip Holloway.

So, gentlemen, good to see you again. So Philip you first, of those discrepancies that Rosa just played out, what are the three that most standout to you?

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, LEGAL ANALYST AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well it's striking because Rosa picked up on a lot of the same things I'm picked up on, there were multiple accounts about these other officers on the scene that McDonald launched at Officer Van Dyke and we saw that that wasn't the case.

Also, there's one report Fred that says that three of the officers were battered by McDonald. OK?

WHITFIELD: And you don't see any contact.

HOLLOWAY: You don't see that on the video, it's not there. In all likelihood it seems it didn't happen. And perhaps the biggest thing that stands out at me is that investigators who have reviewed this very thick police investigative file and have seen the video came to the conclusion that the officer's account was corroborated by everything that they found in the reports and in the video. And to me that just does not seem to make sense given what I see with this video and with this case.

WHITFIELD: So it underscores there's a concerted effort to try to stay inline with a story? Regardless of what the videotape, the dash cam video, which many are just seeing for the first time anyway, displaced? HOLLOWAY: Well police reports must be accurate, they must be complete, they must be reliable. Otherwise there will be no confidence whatsoever in the results of the investigation. I think it's clear now why the Police Union and others were so quick to come out and say this is a justified shooting because all they had was these preliminary reports by the officers on the scene.

That may explain how this seemingly inaccurate of narrative -- inaccurate narrative got started. It does not explain why it got started. If this is some effort by the other officers to circle the wagons in defense of Officer Van Dyke then that's a big problem.

WHITFIELD: So then Jonathan, I love to weight in with you now. So if you know, and we are hearing it, you know, from Philip if -- it seems as though the narrative, the story, the written report is going to be in contrast with what the dashcam video says. Does it simply underscore that there was a certainty, a feeling that this dashcam video would never be revealed. No one would ever be able to compare the written report to the dashcam video?

GILLIAM: And I am not trying to defend this at all, I know people are quick ...

WHITFIELD: Actually, can you start your response again because the top part of your response was clipped, your mike was clipped. So start that from the beginning.

GILLIAM: So I don't want people again to think that I am going to defend this shooting. I will say though if you backup the footage to this point right here where you see him kind of going to a jog and takes the knife out and, you know, provocatively slings it that actually was over his shoulder, he did sling the knife to the side. So that part in the statement is actually true.

WHITFIELD: But he's walking away, it looks like he's walking in adjacent and away from the officer.

GILLIAM: That's our angle. Remember that the SUV that just pulled up there, he been chasing him for over 30 seconds already. So at this point he starts to veer off to the right, there's another cop that just pulled up in front of them, but listen, we can go through all this, you know, this different terminology and the different aspects of it. There are parts in those police reports that I don't see, I never saw him launch at any of the officers or assault them.

I don't know, I heard there were reports earlier that that he had stabbed a car -- one of the police car's windows with two officers and it, I don't know if you would call that assault but I think that, you know, this is another policy that could be fixed in police departments where, when there's a shooting like this officer should be -- as soon as the other responding officers get there, they should be separated and they should write the reports right there. And then those reports should be collected. That way there is no time for any of these rumors to get started that they collaborated to come up with a story.

WHITFIELD: I guess it's still perplexing though if these officers knew that, at least on one of these vehicles they were a dashcam video, then why should there ever be room for inconsistency of what the dashcam video said to what's written in the report? Philip?

HOLLOWAY: Well I've seen thousands of the police videos in my career and I can tell you, there's always some degree of inconsistency ...

WHITFIELD: But it would be slightly wouldn't it?

HOLLOWAY: They're usually slight -- correct, that's right. They usually don't diverge to this degree because, you know, officers often times write their reports hours later, they are under the effects of adrenaline, they get tunnel vision. So there's reasons why you might have slight discrepancies, but major ones like what we see here or apparently see here, those were very, very troubling.

[11:30:04] WHITFIELD: Jonathan, you're about to say.

GILLIAM: No, I agree, that's exactly what I was going to say. And I think I still will stand by my statements from earlier when this happened, that it's an -- I think the initial shooting was justified, the way he was walking towards the officer, the provocative movement with the knife. The history for the past, you know, few minutes that led up to that, all this stuff leads up to a good initial shoot. When he was on the ground though ...

WHITFIELD: And you said initial -- so you say said initial but then, as the shooting continues and he's on the ground, are you seeing the threat that Van Dyke described? The lunging even when he's down on the ground, the lifting of the knife and that justifies threat?

GILLIAM: I -- once he's on the ground, I think that -- the tactics that were taught is that you stop reassessing, if you have to reengage at that time you reengage. I saw movement but I didn't see any movement that was -- where I thought he could actually get up. But again, you know, Fred, this only happened and 14 seconds. So the speed at which this goes down and the interpretation that this officer that's at a heightened threat level is going to have is different than we're going to have when we're watching this video.

So -- and it was a different angle also from the car. And again, that's not a justification of him shooting the guy on the ground but those are things that have -- that will be taken into account in court.

WHITFIELD: All right, 14 seconds, 16 shots, all right. Johnny Gilliam, Philip Holloway, thanks so much gentlemen, appreciate it.

All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, ISIS is now claiming that that married couple that carried out that attack in San Bernardino, California are supporters. The terror group made that declaration on their official radio station today. Here's a closer look at the female attacker Tashfeen Malik, she was born and raised in Pakistan, moved to Saudi Arabia between the ages of 18 and 20.

[11:35:06] She came to the United States on a fiancee visa, and then married Syed Rizwan Farook, and just six months ago had a baby daughter.

CNN's Kyung Lah has more on the woman's background and the criminal investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Investigators are honing in on Tashfeen Malik, the wife and second shooter in the San Bernardino attack that claimed the lives of 14 people. Three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation say, as the massacre was happening Malik posted on Facebook a pledge of allegiance to ISIS Leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi.

She is a woman few members of the Islamic Center in Riverside remember. That's the mosque Syed Rizwan Farook attended and celebrated his marriage to his wife last year.

The service was in this room?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LAH: And so, the women were up there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Up there. Yes, right, right. Up there.

Women are separated from the men in this mosque so even Mustafa Kuko, the director of the Islamic Center never met Malik. She's a mystery to many here, including those who knew her best. According to attorneys for the Farook family, Syed's brothers never saw her face.

ABUERSHAID: Men did not interact with her and the brothers did not actually ever see her face. They've never seen her face because she did wear a burqa.

LAH: The couple first met like many today, on the web. Farook had joined a dating website. He came across Malik, a Pakistani citizen living in Saudi Arabia. He turned to Kuko for marital advice.

MUSTAFA KUKO, DIRECTOR, ISLAMIC CENTER OF RIVERSIDE: He said, I feel comfortable with this person and I believe she's a good woman, she's a decent woman. She's a religious woman.

LAH: Kuko says Farook flew to Saudi Arabia to meet Malik in October 2013 during the Hajj Pilgrimage. DHS sources tells CNN Malik's father lived in Saudi Arabia so she often visited over the years from Pakistan. He went to Saudi Arabia in June, 2014. Documents show she entered the U.S. a month later. Their marriage certificate filed in Riverside County says they were legally married in August of that year. Members of the mosque first met Malik at their wedding ceremony held here. Abdul Aziz Ahmed, Farook's friend, was among the 300 who attended the wedding.

ABDUL AZIZ AHMED, FAROOK'S FRIEND: When she comes here, he was looking good.

And then he disappeared?

AHMED: He disappeared, yes.

LAH: After coming to this mosque every day for two years, Farook stopped.

AHMED: How can this happen? A guy who was very good, he doesn't have any problem with anybody, you don't hear him talking about those madmen, like the crazy terrorists. He never talked about those kinds of people.

LAH: Did the marriage change him?

AHMED: I suspect. I suspect there is something wrong.

LAH: Farook's co-worker Christian Wadiki (ph) tells CBS News, he's certain the marriage changed Farook.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that he was radicalized?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, by the wife. I think he married a terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He married a terrorist?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LAH: Most puzzling, say friends, Farook would be a good father and would have wanted to live a life with a family.

AHMED: I don't understand. How can a woman just leave her baby like this and go do some crap like this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk more about this. Joining me right now from New Milford, Connecticut, CNN Contributor Kacey Jordan, who is a criminologist and behavioral analyst. Good to see you Kacey. So, you just heard from those who had interactions with the couple, they're gut feeling is Malik, is perhaps the one who influenced Farook.

And then investigators are also saying, during the attack Malik pledged loyalty to the leader of ISIS on Facebook. So, is it your gut feeling that she may have been the one spearheading this whole mission?

KACEY JORDAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I have to tell you that based on what we know this looks like the most likely scenario based on the people who knew them both. And also just based on the fact that we cannot forget that Syed was born in America, he is an American citizen and was raised here. So, his culture is American.

And yes he's Muslim-American, but she came from Pakistan, and you have to remember they really could not have known each other very well. It's one thing to meet somebody in an online dating site, it's another thing to get a mail order bride, to go oversees, meet them and bring them back, and get them here and realize, I'm married to this person and that get to know them.

He may not have even known what she was like or what her politics were like and what her allegiance was like until she came here.

WHITFIELD: So she came by way of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. And if -- is it your feeling that, if indeed she came with a plan that would better explain why no one necessarily noticed any real behavioral differences, she didn't, maybe, she didn't really involve while in the U.S. But, because potentially coming with the plan, she already knew how to mask what may have been a plan hatched well before being with Syed Farook?

[11:40:11] JORDAN: Yeah, I think that could -- that's the real question we may never know the answer to unless we can reconstruct it through computer records. The question is, did she date bait him? Did she come here, find him online and a long-term plan to carry out this terrorist attack that we saw on Wednesday? Or, was she a personally who was fundamentally Muslim who came here and was very unhappy, feel into a pit of depression. Maybe, i even suffered from a mental illness or chemical imbalance so that it ballooned her head over the last 15 months, and actually became something that she was determined to carry out and that she actually got her husband to join her in?

Or maybe it was a little bit more 50-50, but chances are, she's the one who was really driving this out of control bus.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kacey Jordan. Thanks so much from New Milford, Connecticut. All right, still to come, survivors of the San Bernardino shooting speaking to CNN, describing the terrifying moments as gunfire rang out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We are learning more about the victims of the San Bernardino, California mass shooting. 14 people killed, 21 others injured; Mothers, fathers, husbands, wives and friends gone in a moment of senseless violence. In an exclusive interview with CNN'S Anderson Cooper, two survivors recount the terrifying experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:45:03] TRUDY RAYMUNDO, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I was at the back table that was near the exterior door.

CORWIN PORTER, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Because we were on break at the current time.

RAYMUNDO: It came through, so I mean I was at the table getting coffee and checking out the goodies that were sitting there. And it was that point in time, you know, when we all heard gunfire right outside the door and all turned to look at the door to watch him come in. ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Is there anything else you want to say

about what happened from then on in terms of in those moments?

RAYMUNDO: I mean, I think just instinct kicks in, adrenaline kicks in. You know, they are such an amazing staff, you know, I was under the table with some of the staff and we just kind of held on to each other.

COOPER: So there were tables that you could try to hide under?

RAYMUNDO: The tables with the food, yes, we -- as soon as we saw him come in, we ...

PORTER: And the rest of the staff had tables, too, some less exposed, more exposed than others. Immediately I saw before I went under my table, people going under their tables throughout the room.

RAYMUNDO: Try to find safety.

COOPER: Did you have a sense of how long it went on for? I know oftentimes people kind of lose the sense of time in something like this.

RAYMUNDO: Realistically, no, I mean, it just -- it seemed like it was forever. It seemed like it went on forever.

PORTER: It did. It seemed like the shooting just went on forever.

RAYMUNDO: And all I could think of was, why doesn't he stop? Why, why, why does he keep shooting?

COOPER: Did either of them say anything?

PORTER: I never heard anything spoken. First thing when the door flew open, immediately the shots started being fired.

COOPER: And you didn't hear anything, either?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, incredible eyewitness accounts there. Again, 14 killed, 21 injured. We'll be right back.

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[11:50:00]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. In the next hour Donald Trump is holding a rally I Iowa, tiding high after a new CNN/ORC poll showing Trump with 36 percent support among Republican voters. That's 20 points ahead of his nearest competitor Ted Cruz.

So our poll also shows 46 percent of GOP voters think Trump is the best candidate to handle ISIS, which he talked about last night in North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, how would you handle that?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh I would handle it so touch you have no idea -- you don't want to hear, you don't even want to hear. You don't want to hear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in CNN Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein, editorial director at the National Journal. So, Ron, I mean he says, you don't want to hear it, he can have this kind of tough talk but then no specifics. And instead of it really impacting his polling, it seems that his polling only goes up, how do you explain it?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning Fred, you know, as I've have written a couple months ago, and we've talked about before, I think the Republican race at this point can be explained in two sentences, which is at the blue-collar wing of the Republican Party has consolidated to a remarkable extent around Donald Trump, and the white-collar wing means fragmented.

In your new poll among Republicans without a college degree, in this poll you just sited, Donald Trump is at 46 percent, an unbelievable number, nearly four times that the support of the next closest competitor Ted Cruz at 12 percent. When you look at college-educated Republicans, he's not doing nearly as well, he's only at 18 percent and there are three candidates actually evident (ph), Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and Marco Rubio.

But the problem is that that white-collar wing of the party simply has not consolidated around one alternative. Trump is in a very strong position, much stronger than anyone imagined he could be, and I think outside of his own, you know, entourage at this point. But, there is still another around the play and the question will be, whether as the race goes on that those white-collar Republicans who tend to be a little more skeptical of him do unify behind one candidate.

WHITFIELD: All right. And it's not so simple when you look at the CNN poll, which shows, Trump and Cruz at number one and number two, but then in an overall race against Hillary Clinton, Rubio, Carson, and Bush are actually, you know, in a tighter race there. What does that say to you?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, this is really interesting. I mean, first of all, I think it's hard to draw too much or lean too heavily on general election numbers, this far out, because the choice really hasn't been defined that clearly to voters. And I think the tip-off of that is how little variation there are in these numbers.

[11:55:02] As you see Clinton's numbers vary only between 47 and 50, the Republican numbers vary only between 47 to 50, what that tells you is that you're largely getting generic readings at this point in a 50- 50 country about who leans Democratic and who leans Republican. What's really interesting is that, as you know, you kind of had Republican leaders and strategist in the world privately they would tell you they believe Cruz and Trump are the weakest general election candidates.

But they are leading in the poll and in fact when you ask in this survey, in your survey, you asked Republican voters, 52 percent say they believe Trump is the strongest general election candidate, a better number than his number in the horse race, so you have a real divide at this point between voters and insiders that is probably going to play out in very unpredictable ways as the race actually gets going in a few more weeks, the voting gets going.

WHITFIELD: Wow. OK. Yeah, it's just weeks now away, isn't that something? We've been saying months ...

BROWNSTEIN: It is just weeks.

WHITFIELD: Now weeks, people. All right, Ron Brownstein ...

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: .. thanks so much.

All right, be sure to tune in to CNN on December 15th, just next week for the final GOP presidential primary debate of this year. We will be bringing to you live from Las Vegas starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern time and we'll be right back.

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