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Justice Scalia Audio Released; Fareed Zakaria Talks Trump, Muslims; Army/Navy Football Game Tomorrow; Satanic Group Fights Opposition. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 11, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: 263 years recommended in prison. We'll watch for the sentencing.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Consecutive time, by the way, Brooke, which means that each and every victim has a compelling story unto its own, and something he did unspeakable as to each of them. So I look --
(CROSSTALK)
MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST & COMMENTATOR: 18 different acts.
JACKSON: Sentenced and sentenced and sentenced and continue. He's not going to see the light of day.
BALDWIN: Joey, Mel, thank you.
JACKSON: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Just in to CNN, we have audio from the United States Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, under fire for comments that multiple people are calling straight up racist. We'll play that for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:34:57] BALDWIN: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Quote, "deeply disturbing, insulting and racist" -- those are some words used to describe comments by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. We just got these audio tapes here of what he said during oral argument in an affirmative action case this week.
A little bit of the back story. A woman sued the University of Texas after she was denied admission. She said the university's policy of favoring some minority students was unconstitutional, and Justice Scalia seemed to agree. Here you go.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them going to a less-advanced school, a slower-track school where they do well. One of the briefs pointed out that, that most of the black scientists in this country don't come from schools like the University of Texas.
(CROSSTALK)
MR. GARRE, ATTORNEY: So this court --
(CROSSTALK)
SCALIA: They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they're being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them.
GARRE: This sort --
(CROSSTALK)
SCALIA: This court -- I am just not impressed by the fact that the University of Texas may have fewer or maybe it ought to have fewer, and maybe some -- you know, when you take more the number of blacks, really competent blacks admitted to lesser schools, it turns out to be less. And I don't think it is stands to reason that it is a good thing for the University of Texas to admit as many blacks as possible. I just don't think so.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Justice Scalia no stranger to criticism. He has, thus far, not made any comment on this back and forth.
Joining me to discuss the case, Charles Coleman Jr, a former prosecutor in Brooklyn, New York, and now is a civil rights attorney.
Charles, great to have you book.
CHARLES COLEMAN JR, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Hi, Brooke. How are you?
BALDWIN: I am all right, sir.
Let's just begin. I feel like we need for people who are watching more context. Here you have Justice Scalia, he's talking to this attorney representing the University of Texas at Austin. Give me more context in this conversation.
COLEMAN: Well, you know, Justice Scalia responded, or as you said, he's no stranger to controversy. His remarks, very much so bold and blunt. I think to properly contextualize his statement requires that there be a bold and blunt response. We're looking at some very alarming, very concerning statements coming from a sitting Supreme Court justice. And quite frankly, these remarks were racist, and they were highly offensive. But the biggest issue that many should take away from Scalia's remarks is the fact that you have a sitting Supreme Court justice who uses an amicus brief that he does not name, he does not give a source for in terms of where the brief came from, to say some pretty offensive things, or make some pretty offensive suggestions. And I know people have said well these weren't his words. These weren't his arguments. But the trouble with that is that if Scalia didn't believe that this were a viable argument, if he didn't believe that there was some level of credence attached to what was written in this amicus brief he would not have offered that in challenging the attorneys that were arguing the case. And the fact that he did shows some really concerning things about his attitudes about black learners, and the aptitude of black students in college.
BALDWIN: It is definitely significant what a, you know, sitting justice was saying. And you know, some of us were talking about it earlier today. If you had a politician, i.e., Donald Trump, and if Donald Trump were to say the exact same thing, we would be all over it. And here you have a justice, Justice Scalia, saying this. And he is an incredibly powerful authoritative position.
COLEMAN: You're absolutely correct. It's really important that people understand the level of power that the Supreme Court has and for him to sort of openly, under the cover of this anonymous amicus brief come out and say, you know, listen, it may not be a good thing for black students to be able to go to schools like the University of Texas, should raise some real concern. But I also think that beyond that, it will be interesting to see whether this conversation will spill over or traction with respect to the conversation in the presidential election right now with respect to the presidential candidates. Is anyone going to be asked or anyone going to comment regarding their Philosophy in terms of the types of justices that they would seek to appoint if elected president, and what ideological -- what ideology they would seek to advance if they had the opportunity to appoint some Supreme Court justices.
BALDWIN: Don't know if you've heard. We've got a debate coming up on Tuesday. That could be interesting talking about the philosophy of appointing justices.
COLEMAN: Indeed.
[14:40:42] BALDWIN: Charles Coleman Jr, thank you so much. We'll see you back here in New York.
COLEMAN: thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
Next, I just mentioned Donald Trump because he's under fire for proposing to block Muslims from traveling to the United States. My next guest is blasting his idea. Fareed Zakaria joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: My next guest believes the effects of Donald Trump's rhetoric have already poisoned the atmosphere. And in a "Washington Post" piece, Fareed Zakaria says, because of today's political climate, he must embrace his own identity as a Muslim, even though he explains, quote, "I am not a practicing Muslim." But he goes on to say that, "Identity does not fully represent me or my views. I am appalled by Donald Trump's bigotry, and demagoguery, not because I am a Muslim, but because I am an American." And he joins me now.
My goodness, I have read this over three different times. I feel the emotions sort of boiling over. But the common denominator you're saying not because I'm a Muslim but because I'm an American am I truly appalled. Can you explain that?
[14:44:57] FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS: You know, it was a hard piece to write. I've been doing this kind of thing for about 25 years, commenting on public policy. I've never written a column that I can recall that ever said, as an Indian-American, as a Muslim. I believe in trying to persuade people with logic and reason, and argument. And not, you know, use my identity as some kind of badge one way or the other. And so do I think to a large extent, most of my viewers probably don't know where I come from.
BALDWIN: Right.
ZAKARIA: But I felt like this was a case where Trump was making it so difficult to stay in that common space where you are having a kind of argument about the ideas. Because he was branding an entire group of people one way that I had to kind of stand -- come out and be counted. It felt like I couldn't just hunker down and pretend this would pass.
BALDWIN: Why do you mean as an American you're appalled specifically?
ZAKARIA: Because I think in America of all places, people are allowed to have many different identities, to shed some of their own identities, to take on new ones. That's what the whole process of being and becoming an American is all about. And what Trump is doing to really he's trying to push you back in to the box of one of your identities and say, this is the only identity I can care about. You know, you may be whatever you think you are, father, husband, a writer, a businessman. I'm going to look at you only in this one way. And I'm going to discriminate against you in that one way. And that idea, it's really how very bad things start. I watched it in the Balkans. I watched it in Iraq where all of these communities used to live pretty peaceably together, and then politician comes there and he says, these people are different, they're the problem, and you categorize a whole community, not just a few bad people, not just a few thousand. You --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Broad stroke, blanket approach.
ZAKARIA: And then what happens is, you know, so that community starts getting defensive. The other people get suspicious. And the downward spiral of segregation and discrimination begins.
BALDWIN: The line from the Muslim American soldier you were talking about who was a refugee from Bosnia, said it like this: "I know how things work when you start whipping up mistrust between your neighbors and friends. I've seen them turn on one another." And that does seem to be the beginnings of what's happening here. What next? ZAKARIA: Well you know, Trump is almost encouraging it. He's saying
to people spy on your Muslim neighbors. Look and see if they're doing anything suspicious. Report on it. Now, look, obviously, if anybody detects any kind of suspicious illegal activity, any kind of terror, you know, quasi-terrorist activity, of course, you should report on it.
BALDWIN: Yeah.
ZAKARIA: But you know, what he's doing is really saying all these guys are suspicious. Monitor their mosques. Eavesdrop on them. You know, see what they're doing.
And you know, the real tragedy here is that, the United States, Muslim Americans, are very well integrated. People from around the world come here to see how well we do this. Yes, you've had this one, you know, very sad case in San Bernardino, which is a complicated one because the woman was actually from Pakistan and lived in Saudi Arabia.
BALDWIN: Right.
ZAKARIA: Not really a classic American immigrant story. But by and large, we've done this very well. And what might happen, because of what Trump is doing, is we will end up with the same kind of problems Europe does where the communities live apart, are suspicious of each other, they became ghettos of exclusion, and then radicalism and jihad.
BALDWIN: Thank you for writing this. Thank you for joining me. I can tell it felt different. That's one perspective. We're talking next hour to a Christian soldier who wrote this incredibly poignant letter to Muslim Americans. So he'll join me next hour.
Meantime, Fareed, thank you very much.
Make sure you tune in as always to "Fareed Zakaria, GPS," Sunday mornings, 10:00 eastern, here on CNN.
It is an American tradition, the Army/Navy football game played tomorrow in Philadelphia. That is where Coy Wire -- lucky you -- got sent.
I have my -- oldest friend played football at Navy, so I always feel a little, you know, biased on this one. But you know, listen, these are soldiers, these are sailors. This is a phenomenal day for them.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and Navy's won 13 straight so they're rolling. Look, this is a heated rivalry. It's one of the true treasures of American sports. It dates all the way back to the year 1890. It represents the pageantry, the sportsmanship, the respect, and all the very best of college football.
And the action's picking up. Moments ago, the Apache helicopters made their practice runs for their flyovers tomorrow. And then the Leapfrogs, Navy's parachute team, descended from about 4,000 feet in the sky into the stadium on their practice jump for tomorrow's big game.
Just as this event is so much more than a game, Navy's record-setting quarterback, Keenan Reynolds, is so much more than just a football player. This guy is an inspiration. Let's take a look at his scholastic course list. We're talking about national security decision-making in the cyber age, politics of irregular warfare, not the ordinary course load of a football player, Brooke. This guy is disciplined, a dedicated future leader of our nation.
I asked him about his erudition outside of the game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:50:15] KEENAN REYNOLDS, NAVY QUARTERBACK: The courses we take are priming us for what we need to be successful out in the fleet as leaders.
WIRE: When you hear about the things that happened in Paris and now in San Bernardino, California, does that move you?
REYNOLDS: It definitely kind of reminds you why you are really here, the commitment, the bigger commitment that you've made to serving your country, and the evil that we're out to protect. So I think it's kind of a centering thing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIRE: It will be an honor to watch Keenan and his fellow servicemen play in the 116th Army/Navy game tomorrow -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: Awesome.
Coy Wire, my friend, thank you very much.
We do have some breaking news I want to get straight to. As one country is hunting for several missing terror suspects, talk about attacking Chicago, Toronto, we are now getting word of a possible ISIS sleeper cell there. We have those details ahead.
Also ahead, Lisa Ling joins me. She actually went inside a Satanist group. You may be surprised about what happened, and who they really worshipped. Don't miss this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:53] BALDWIN: They are artists, they are community activists, and they are members of a Satanic temple. This holiday season a group of Satanists fighting major opposition and displaying their beliefs publicly.
And CNN special correspondent and host of "This Is Life," Lisa Ling, takes a closer look. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA LING, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, THIS IS LIFE (voice- over): As a skilled artist, Michael is now using his craft to stand with the temple, and their fight for religious freedom.
When the Michigan state capitol put up a nativity scene during Christmastime, the Satanic temple placed their own symbol of faith on the state capitol lawn. And Michael helped design it.
UNIDENTIFIED ARTIST: The snake itself has to be representative of Lucifer when he chose to lead man to knowledge in the Garden of Eden. We support the idea of Lucifer as a metaphorical figure and his influence on man.
LING (on camera): We live in a nation that is predominantly Judeo- Christian so what's wrong with having a nativity scene on the steps of the capitol during Christmastime?
UNIDENTIFIED ARTIST: There's nothing wrong with it per se, if other religions could be accepted as well as have their own displays. There can't be one dominating voice to all the voices.
LING: So how is it received?
UNIDENTIFIED ARTIST: A lot of people threatened to destroy it. But for the most part, I felt like it was met with acceptance and curiosity.
LING: Do you celebrate Christmas?
UNIDENTIFIED ARTIST: I do, actually. I personally just view it as more of a time to be with my family.
LING: So you don't think Christmas should go away, even though it is the day that commemorates the birth of Christ?
UNIDENTIFIED ARTIST: No. Not at all. I feel like everyone should have the right to celebrate their religion, but every voice has to be heard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Every voice has to be heard.
Here she is. Lisa Ling joins me live from Los Angeles.
I was watching a bunch of different clips and it's all these different voices. I had no idea. So correct me. Satanists, they don't actually worship Satan?
LING: So, the Satanic temple is a new religious movement, and the followers are very defiant about the fact that they are, in fact, a religion. Because followers believe devoutly in the seven tenets of the Satanic temple. But they don't actually believe in the devil, or Satan, or any other deity. More than anything, they really are kind of a political action group, and they exist to protest the imposition of what they say are Judeo-Christian values on our political system, in our politics and in public life.
Interestingly enough, even though this group has chosen Satan as the head of it, a lot of the issues right now, the idea of respecting people of other faiths, especially during this time, a lot of these issues are very relevant right now, because there's a lot of scrutinization of people who espouse different beliefs, if you know what I'm talking about. So even though this group is trying to use one symbol, really, they're trying to get people in this country to recognize and appreciate people of all different faiths.
BALDWIN: I was watching the mother who lost heir son, and you know, she felt strongly about joining this because of a tenet on civil rights. Tell me more about these voices we'll hear from.
LING: Well, we know that in schools across this country, there have been issues with administrations in some cases recognizing kids who might be gay. And banning people who are gay from student offices, and this woman that we featured found solace with the Satanic temple because her son committed suicide after a lot of pressure from friends and family members, and she found that the imposition of Christian values into the school system to be one of the reasons that may have pushed her son to take his own life.
BALDWIN: Lisa Ling, we will, indeed, be watching.
Lisa's special, "The Belief of Satanists," on "This is Life," her series, Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern, here on CNN.
Thank you so much.
And we continue on. Top of the hour.
