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Black Lives Matter Protests; Trump Surging. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 23, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: He's looking more untouchable than ever.

A CNN poll just out today shows the presidential candidate with 39 percent of the Republican vote, at least the third poll to put him at -- at or near 40 percent in the poll. And the Iowa caucuses are just 40 days away.

A second tier is led by Ted Cruz at 18 percent, Ben Carson, Marco Rubio at 10 percent. And notice, in the bottom tier, Rand Paul has now overtaken Jeb Bush.

So, let's turn now to CNN's political director, Mr. David Chalian.

David, this poll also shows more people have their minds made up now.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes.

Don, this is a really interesting statistic in the poll, I think. Nearly 60 percent of Republicans in our poll now say that their decision is basically down to one or two candidates. When we asked that back in the summer, it was less than a majority of Republicans saying that.

I do think sort of to use the Christmas analogy, and I don't have my Santa costume here with me today, but I do think that we see the shopping season coming to an end here, and people are winnowing down their choices and feeling comfortable saying now, six in 10 Republicans saying, hey, this is going to come down to one or two guys for me.

LEMON: All right.

This Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday showed a much closer race between Trump and Cruz. It was just a four-point difference, a four- point spread. Why the big discrepancy in polls, David?

CHALIAN: The way I look at polls is I look at the totality of the polls that come out in a given time, because is cliche, but it's true that they are each an individual snapshot of when that poll was taken.

I think if you look at all the polls since Thanksgiving, basically, you see polls that look a lot like the poll that we have out today, that FOX had out, that CBS/"New York Times" had out. Quinnipiac looked a little different. They may have caught slightly different interviewing at a certain time that captured something else. But I think the best thing to do is sort of don't look at any one individual poll, Don. Just look at the totality to see where the direction is.

LEMON: As you say, it's a snapshot, it's a snapshot in time.

OK. So Ted Cruz, he does top one poll question, and that's favorability. He is at 74 percent. Still, with a 21-point lead over Cruz, should Trump even be looking over his shoulder right now?

CHALIAN: Trump is looking over his shoulder there.

Trump has improved his favorability number tremendously, as has Cruz, as you note. But when this race started, Trump was upside down with Republicans favorable and unfavorable. He has gone up 20 points there. Ted Cruz, as he's getting better known, he is also being better liked by Republicans. That is no small thing in politics, as you know.

If he can keep up that very favorable impression he has with Republican voters, that is going to give him a very important hearing from them in the home stretch here as he's trying to close the sale.

LEMON: I have to ask you about Jeb Bush. He's now behind Rand Paul, 3 percent to 4 percent. If this keep us up, of course, the question is about that main stage. Is he not going to be on that main stage when FOX Business is considering who to show, the top six candidates? What's your reaction to Bush's standing?

CHALIAN: Listen, in our poll also, not only his overall horse race number that you're pointing out, but we asked Republican viewers of our debate last with week, saying who won the debate, and only 1 percent of Republicans polled said Jeb Bush won the debate.

LEMON: Wow.

CHALIAN: We are not seeing any national traction for him in this new phase of him taking on Donald Trump more aggressively.

Now, he's focusing a lot of attention in New Hampshire. We will have to see how he does there. And, remember, FOX Business, for that debate that you mentioned, they are going to incorporate national polls, as well as New Hampshire and Iowa polls.

We still have a couple of weeks before their window closes before we know who will be on the main stage and who won't.

LEMON: David, how long can he last then with this kind of polling?

CHALIAN: Listen, these are not good numbers for Jeb Bush. We were just talking about the favorability. Jeb, he has completely reversed. He went from being seen as a favorable guy when the race started to now a majority of Republicans hold an unfavorable view of him.

That is a very tough position to be in when you're trying to seek to be the party's nominee. Jeb clearly has money and support that he can go through some of these contests. But if he does not post some serious improvement when the voting starts, he's going to have a very tough time making the case to donors that this should continue on.

LEMON: Lindsey Graham dropped out. Anybody else you see doing that before Iowa?

CHALIAN: I don't see that happening before Iowa. Mike Huckabee was on our air talking about how he has to become in the top three in Iowa. And if he's not, it sounded like he may get out of the race.

I do think, as soon as the Iowa voting is over, you will see some folks leave the race.

LEMON: Thank you, sir. David Chalian. Appreciate it.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: All right, let's move on. Let's discuss this more.

Trump has been leading in the national polls, but, remember, in Iowa, a "Des Moines Register"/Bloomberg poll showed Ted Cruz winning that state's caucus on February 1. And Cruz may well win over more supporters after what many are calling a low blow from "The Washington Post."

[15:05:03]

The paper pulled this cartoon depicting Cruz's daughters as monkeys. It came in response to a parody ad that Cruz produced in which he reads to his 5- and 7-year-old daughters. Cruz today slammed that drawing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not complicated. Don't make fun of a 5-year-old girl and a 7-year-old girl. Listen, everyone expects the mainstream media to be liberal, to be biased. Folks want to attack me, knock yourself out. That's part of the process. I signed up for that. That's fine. But my girls didn't sign up for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: They certainly didn't.

With me is Jamie Weinstein, senior editor at The Daily Caller, and CNN political commentator Maria Cardona, who is also a Democratic strategist.

Jamie, Ted Cruz used this cartoon, though, and he e-mailed his supporters, a list asking an emergency donation, as he hoped to raise a million dollars in the next 24 hours. The question that many people are asking is, if he's so offended -- and I think he has the right to be offended -- children are off-limits -- but if he's so offended and he doesn't want to bring attention to this, why is he redistributing it in a letter to raise money? Is he keeping this alive?

JAMIE WEINSTEIN, THE DAILY CALLER: Well, that certainly seems to undermine his outrage, Don.

Look, I'm a little bit a dissenter from the outrage industry. Try as I might, I can't get as outraged as many people have on the Internet over this. I think the real concern is the double standard. I think that if it was -- they did this to a Democrat, there would be a lot of hell raised over it.

But the reality is, I look at the cartoon. Maybe it wasn't wise, but I think they were attacking Ted Cruz for using his children. Unfortunately, I think all politicians left and right use their children. I think that's a general problem. But the real problem I see is the double standard here.

I just can't get upset over the cartoon, as seems like everyone else on the Internet is.

LEMON: Is it a double standard, Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think Ted Cruz here is absolutely in the right to be outraged.

And I don't think it's a double standard because I think as he himself said, that all politicians' kids are off-limits and have been off- limits in the past.

LEMON: Even if he used them in a political ad prior to that?

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: Yes. Yes, even if he used them in a political ad, because he's their father. He can make that decision.

I am the mother of two small kids. And when I looked at this, I thought about it. I was like, you know what? If I'm running for president and I want to use my kids in a political ad, that's my decision. But that doesn't mean, especially if they are young, that doesn't mean that they are then fair game for the media to use.

And, by the way, it was a parody. It wasn't a real political ad. And so I think he's absolutely in the right here. I do think that his outrage is perhaps a little bit blurred because he now sent this out as a fund-raising tool. But, again, that's his decision. It does keep this alive longer, so that's kind of on him.

But I am with him on this. I don't think that the cartoon should have gone out there. I'm glad "The Post" pulled it. And politicians on both sides should absolutely come to his defense on this.

LEMON: OK. I want to put this up so you can see it. Just getting word from producers that Ted Cruz just tweeted this cartoon. I think it says, "Seems like a better idea for a cartoon, Hillary and her lapdog." And then it's "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post." Just tweeted from Ted Cruz.

What do you think, Jamie? WEINSTEIN: I think this is a lot of political theater. The idea is,

of course, you don't want to attack politicians' children and make fun of 5- and 7-year-olds. But I think...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But do you want to attack their dogs? Come on, Hillary Clinton's dogs. One is named "New York Times." The other one is named "New York Post." She didn't put those kids out there. Why are they doing that?

WEINSTEIN: No, it's a good point.

But, Don, let me just make my original point, is that I think it's unlikely that Ted Cruz's children or Hillary Clinton's dogs are avid readers of either "The New York Times" cartoon section or "The Washington Post" cartoon section.

I don't think either of those groups are going to actually be hurt by this cartoon. Now, maybe it was unwise, but I think there's a lot of political theater going on right here and the outrage industry is in top effect.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: You can also argue that this completely plays into Ted Cruz's criticism of the mainstream media, as he likes to say it, that they have a liberal bias.

And so by doing this, if "The Washington Post" was looking to criticize him and to hurt him in any way, they have actually helped. There's plenty of other things to go after Ted Cruz on other than his children.

LEMON: Well, I thought it was pretty witty and pretty funny. And it's attacking an institution or an industry, rather than a personal individual, and it's not a child.

Can we turn to the polls? Can we talk about the polls now? Let's do that. And 39 percent -- Donald Trump at 39 percent. Jamie, my question is, should the GOP accept fact that Trump is going to be their nominee right now? Look at the percentages.

WEINSTEIN: Well, I think he certainly has a much better shot certainly than almost anyone believed when he first got in this race. I'm not sure it's a fait accompli yet.

[15:10:00]

I think Ted Cruz is still in there. And I still think Marco Rubio, to my mind, might be still the likeliest one to win the nomination, even though he has not moved yet up in the polls. But I think he will start trying to campaign in New Hampshire more and try to make that the state where he wins and becomes what you might call the establishment favorite, even though I think he bridges the establishment/anti-establishment divide. And then he will go toe-to-toe with Ted Cruz and Donald Trump down the

stretch to see this battle royal, to see who wins this Republican nomination.

LEMON: Maria, let's talk Hillary Clinton now. She had a real world moment when a girl asked her about bullying on Tuesday.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: More love and kindness in our country. I think we are not treating each other with the respect and the care that we should show toward each other. And that's why it's important to stand up to bullies wherever they are and why we shouldn't let anybody bully his way into the presidency, because that is not who we are as Americans.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Maria, some people would say that Hillary Clinton needs to have more moments like that showing her personal side where she doesn't look so sort of polished and robot-like.

CARDONA: I think that's exactly right. I think we will continue to see more moments like that.

I think that right now when she talks about this issue of having more love for each other, having more acceptance of each other, this is something that she has started to talk about on her campaign and that she feels pretty strongly about.

I think that this comes to her much more naturally now as she is campaigning as she likes to campaign. She talks about being a mother. She talks about being a grandmother. I think that this really does bring out her more real self and it really does connect with the audience. And I liked how she really did turn that around to focus on the importance of the words that our leaders talk about.

And so I think this was a really good moment for her.

LEMON: Jamie, I have to run, though. Even though we know those events are set up and they -- I don't know -- I don't know if the girl was pre-interviewed, but usually those things -- they know what's going to happen.

WEINSTEIN: Yes. No question about it. This is kind of manufactured to try to make Hillary Clinton look more recognizable, humanize her to the public.

But the reality is, that's a problem with her. People just don't necessarily see her as someone who likes to have fun and can relate to her. They're going to keep trying. I'm not sure it's going to work.

LEMON: Jamie, Maria.

CARDONA: She's seen as a person who is going to fight for everybody. And I think that's the most important thing.

LEMON: Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Up next, happening right now, demonstrators from Black Lives Matter converging on the nation's largest mall, this after the group's organizers were hit with a restraining order barring some of them from taking part in the rally.

Also ahead, the woman accused of running down pedestrians on the Las Vegas Strip makes her first court appearance, her attorney suggesting it may not have been intentional.

And then later, Atlanta rapper GZ joins me live to talk politics and the Black Lives Matter movement, how he's influencing his nearly one million followers on Twitter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:39]

LEMON: The woman accused of intentionally plowing her car into a crowd on the Las Vegas Strip has just appeared before a judge for the first time. Lakeisha Holloway is charged with murder with a deadly weapon, child abuse and leaving the scene of the accident. One person was killed, 37 others injured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH ABOOD, ATTORNEY FOR LAKEISHA HOLLOWAY: She's distraught. I mean, this is tragic for everybody involved. And as the days go by and the gravity of what happened sinks in, I expect that she's going to be in a very difficult mental state.

We want her family to reach out to us. We want to try to get the best picture we can of who this young lady is and what the circumstances are that put her in this position.

SCOTT COFFEE, ATTORNEY FOR LAKEISHA HOLLOWAY: She's under surveillance. She's got guards. There's medical personnel, mental health personnel that are nearby. She's in a unit where she can't hurt herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So joining me now, CNN's Ryan Young.

Ryan, what happened inside that courtroom, and could she be facing even more charges?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even more charges sound like they're coming, Don, from what the DA was telling us. Attempted murder charges could be headed her way.

We really watched her in court. Court was short. You have been to one of these first court appearances before. I would say it took maybe all of seven minutes with her kind of standing there saying, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, to the judge and then it was all over and it was done.

But one of those things you're watching for is you're wanting to see if family is in the courtroom. You want to see if anybody who loves her is in that courtroom to say anything toward her or does she look into the crowd to make sort of any acknowledgment? That didn't happen today.

No one looked back and no one sort of had that conversation with her during any of these court proceedings. We can see her hair a little looks different from when she was initially arrested. You see that initial mug shot. She was a lot taller in court than what a lot of people thought she would be.

But, look, we didn't get any sort of mental picture of maybe anything that was preexisting. No one said anything about that. Of course, this is one of those first court appearances where we heard, look, they're going to take 30 days to do an evaluation and then go from here. But the DA did talk about the idea that more charges would be coming.

We did expect to hear from the families today. We thought they would be here in court. That did not happen. They have not shown up. We believe her child, the 3-year-old, is still in the custody of the court system.

Right now, there's a lot of questions in terms of what happens next. We have reached out to the family on the number that we had before. No one is answering that number at this point. So, honestly, people are wondering, hey, in the next 30 to 40 days, are we going to learn more about this young lady? Did she have a cloudy mental history? Did something happen? Obviously, that's not something that is going to be released, but you would like for someone to shed some light about what was going on.

LEMON: Ryan Young in Las Vegas, Ryan, thank you very much.

A highly publicized Black Lives Matter protest is under way inside Minnesota's Mall of America. These are some of the first pictures posted on Twitter by our affiliate WCCO. Again, this is our affiliate WCCO. These pictures some the first to be posted on Twitter, that is that protest at the Mall of America in Minneapolis.

Attempts by the mall to stop the planned rally were curtailed yesterday by a Minneapolis judge. She issued a restraining order against three protest organizers, but would not force Black Lives Matter to cancel the entire demonstration. Some retailers were asked to close their doors about an hour before the protest began.

I want to bring in my colleague now, CNN's Sara Sidner.

Sara, beefed-up police presence there, including state troopers.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

But we have seen this before. And the reason why Black Lives Matter chooses venues like this is because they do not want to be ignored. And they won't be ignored if they do it in the largest mall in America. You know the deal with this. They really want the attention.

[15:20:05]

And they're saying, we won't protest and we will stop our protesting if you do two things, one, release any videos they have of the shooting of Jamar Clark, the 24-year-old who was killed in November, and, two, that they appoint a special prosecutor in this case, instead of going to a grand jury.

Those are the two demands. Until they are met, the Black Lives Matter movement is going to continue to protest in many different ways. This is a big one because of course we're all talking about it, and that is the point.

LEMON: Yes.

And the concern was with this particular ruling, it was confusing because some people were allowed in, the bulk of the demonstrators, but some of the Black Lives Matter leaders or the organizers were not allowed to come in. And also we were supposed to have some of them on our show. They decided not to come on because maybe there's some concern that they would be defying the judge's orders in some way.

SIDNER: Right. I think one of the big ways that the Black Lives Matter movement has been telling people who want to come out and protest is, number one, they tried to stop us -- the Mall of America tried to stop us from using our legal right to protest via social media, because one of the things the Mall of the Americas asked for is that they rescind their idea of protesting and let people know about it on social media, in other words, that the protest was canceled.

And they demanded that. They lost. And that didn't happen. But that really inflamed people's emotions. And people felt like, wait a minute, you can't tell us what not to say and you certainly can't tell us what to tweet and put on Facebook and put on social media.

And I think support for them amongst the group that is looking at the situation in America has gone up for those who have been involved in this and more and more people may come out because of the suit, which was intended to do the opposite.

LEMON: We will be watching. Again, we're getting first pictures of this protest from our affiliate WCCO posted on Twitter. Thank you, Sara Sidner. We appreciate it.

I have to tell you this is just in to CNN, into the newsroom, some big changes in airports all across this country just in time for Christmas travel. Despite controversy about full body scanners, as of right now, the TSA will now no longer allow people to refuse the body scanner and choose the pat-down instead.

That's big news.

Sara -- excuse me -- Rene Marsh, our aviation correspondent, joins us. now.

Rene, talk us through these changes. Now you can't say, hey, listen, I don't want to go through that screener. I must be pat -- I don't want to go through the screener. I want to be patted down. No, that's not going to happen any longer?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: That won't happen for certain people.

We want to be really specific here. We know that the TSA is indeed making changes to passenger screening procedures at airport security checkpoints. But here's the thing. If they have some sort of reason of concern about a certain individual who has requested a pat-down instead of going through the body scanner, the TSA, this is the change, now can mandate that an individual indeed must go through the scanner and would not be able to get that pat-down.

Again, they would use this power where they feel they have some question about a certain passenger, perhaps some security questions about a certain individual. Here's the benefit about going through the body scanners. The body scanners are made so that they can detect non-metallic explosives.

You don't want a situation where someone asks for a pat-down and they're able to hide a non-metallic explosive perhaps in their underwear. We saw 2009, the underwear bomber. So it is possible for a pat-down to miss that. And in this current climate, where there are constant threats or the concern about threats to aviation, commercial aviation, they don't want to have any loopholes.

And so that's why this change is being put in place. So, again, if you are someone who raises concern for TSA at any airport across the country and you say you want a pat-down, expect that the TSA now has the power to say, you are not entitled to one and you do indeed have to go through that body scanner, Don.

LEMON: Rene, this is at the agents' discretion. It used to be that if you said no, they would have to pat you down. But now this is at the agents' discretion. The agent can say -- he or she can say, no, you have to go through the machine. And if they do -- if you want to fly, you have to go through.

MARSH: Absolutely. That is the change here now.

LEMON: OK. Rene Marsh, thank you very much.

Get ready as you are traveling this holiday season. You're going through an airport, new rules. New rules.

Thank you, Rene Marsh. Next, an American hero is coming home to U.S. soil right now. Staff Sergeant Chester McBride was one of six Americans killed in Afghanistan this week. I'm going to speak live to the former football coach he visited on his last trip home.

Make sure you stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:22]

LEMON: We have breaking news to tell you about.

We told you about the protests, the planned protest by Black Lives Matter on the Mall of America in Minneapolis. But here's what we're hearing now, that the bulk of the protesters have now left the mall, because it went before a judge. The judge limited some of the people who could show up at the mall.

The protesters did show up, but not en masse, as they did last year by the thousands. They have moved on, we are told. And this is the official tweet of the Minneapolis/St. Paul International Airport, that there are now Black Lives Matter protesters at the airport, possibly shutting some parts of the airport down or at least causing some commotion.

Now you're looking again at these pictures, official Twitter account. The first one was from the Minneapolis/St. Paul International Airport. And these are from WCCO reporters, our affiliate, WCCO reporters. Well, this one is from the Mall of America. You can see the sign there that says Mall of America, showing the police officers out in force and en masse blocking people from there.

But, again, we're told the protesters have moved on to the airport. As you know, it is a busy travel day, today among the busiest of the year. Tomorrow will be even busier than today. We will keep you updated.

Moving on now, the body of Staff Sergeant Chester McBride is returning to U.S. soil right now, the 30-year-old Georgia native and former football hero among six Americans killed when a suicide bomber on a motorcycle detonated near their patrol in Afghanistan.

So, joining me now, a man who knew just what kind of influence Chester McBride had on those around him. It's his coach at Statesboro High School.

Steve Pennington joins us now.

Steve, I'm so sorry for your loss.

What kind of man was Chester?

STEVE PENNINGTON, SLAIN SOLDIER'S FORMER COACH: Well, Chester -- first of all, thank you, Don.