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Republican Race; Trump-Cruz Rivalry; Jakarta Attack; El Chapo Texts. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:27] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

And we begin with the Republican race for the White House. Presidential candidates Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, they are neck and neck in Iowa polls. And in just seven hours from now, they're going to be side by side and face to face for the first time since their once held bromance began turning bitter. But will we see the jabs come out during the GOP debate tonight? That is the big question. Trump has more in his arsenal now with new questions coming out on Ted Cruz's finances during his 2012 bid for Senate. Cruz failed to disclose to the Federal Election Commission hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans that he secured from Goldman Sachs and Citi Bank. Listen to what he told our Dana Bash about those loans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator, how do you explain to your supporters that you got a very large loan from your wife's Wall Street bank in order to fund your upstart insurgent Senate campaign?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the premise of your question is not right. Heidi and I -

BASH: You didn't get a loan?

CRUZ: The premise of your question is not right. Heidi and I, when we ran for Senate, we made the decision to put our liquid net worth into the campaign. And so we did so through a combination of savings, liquidating our savings accounts, through a combination of selling assets and then we had a brokerage account that has a standard margin loan, like any brokerage account has, and we borrowed against the stocks and assets that we had under ordinary terms. And so those loans had been disclosed over and over and over again on multiple filings. If it was the case that they were not filed exactly as the FEC requires, then we'll amend the filings. But all of the information has been public and transparent for many years and that's the end of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go straight to CNN's Sara Murray, who is live in North Charleston, South Carolina, the site of tonight's GOP debate. So, Sara, it seems like Donald Trump may have some more ammo now. Who

do you think will go on the offensive first, Ted Cruz or Trump?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it's interesting, Pam, because Donald Trump has had a habit of sort of hanging back in past debates. But Iowa is getting much closer and the time for playing nice might be over. We have seen him go after Ted Cruz hard on the question of whether Cruz can even legally be president because he was born in Canada. And Cruz has started hitting back in just the last 48 hours, going after Donald Trump saying he's too cozy with Democrats. Cruz saying he would be stronger in a general election. And Cruz even attacking Donald Trump's New York values.

Now, Donald Trump is now defending those values. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you would have been there and if you would have lived through that, like I did with New York people, the way they handled that attack was one of the most incredible things that anybody has ever seen. And you want to knock New York, you've got to go through me. New York is an amazing place with amazing people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: So you heard him there invoking 9/11 to defend his values. But, look, Pam, this is just one of the fights that could be playing out tonight, this battle for the conservative wing of the party between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. On the other side of the stage, you're going to want to watch Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, these are the guys who are fighting tooth and nail to win New Hampshire, to be seen as the Republican establishment standard bearer. And I think that they're going to have a lot of jabs between each other, as all of them try to come out on top. So sort of a split between the Republican Party. Two different fights, all coming to you on one stage tonight, Pam.

BROWN: Yes, those establishment candidates will certainly be trying to breakthrough tonight. Sara Murray, thank you so much for that.

And it appears that Donald Trump is picking on Cruz's Canadian birth in more ways than one. Hard to believe it's not just a coincidence of Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" has been heard playing at Trump rallies recently. And watch this clip of Trump at his latest rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's been really, really nice, other than the last couple of days getting a little testy. I've been waiting. I've been waiting. You got a little problem. You know, you've got to sort of make sure you can run. You've got to make sure you can run. A lot of lawyers say you can't run if you do that. You can't be born in Canada. You can't be a Canadian citizen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Trump also showed off what many say is major appeal, his brash, blunt style. But he wasn't pushing a message. He was actually complaining about his microphone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: OK, what was that? $505 billion. And, by the way, I don't like this mike. Whoever the hell brought this mike system, don't pay the son of a bitch that put it in, I'll tell you. (INAUDIBLE). No, this mike is terrible. This stupid mike keeps popping. Do you hear that, George, don't pay them. Don't pay them. You know, I believe in paying. But when somebody does a bad job, like this stupid mike, you shouldn't pay the (INAUDIBLE). Terrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:09] BROWN: Clearly the crowd was amused there.

I'm going to go straight now to John Allen, a political columnist for "Roll Call," and Jennifer Reuben, who writes for "The Washington Post" "Right Turn" blog.

Thank you so much both for being here.

John, I'm going to go to you first because it was a packed house in Pensacola, as we just saw there, but the big question now is, can Trump turn those supporters at his rallies into actual votes, particularly in Iowa with its caucuses 18 days away and with the race so tight with Ted Cruz?

JONATHAN ALLEN, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, "ROLL CALL": Well, thankfully the microphones at CNN work better than Donald Trump's mike there.

BROWN: That's true.

ALLEN: Yes, I do think you've hit the nail on the head, that is the big question. My inclination is, obviously, you know, Donald Trump doesn't have the political organization that some folks who have run campaigns before have. But if people are willing to stand in line for hours to see him, I can't imagine that there's going to be a huge falloff in terms of trying to get them to go to caucus to vote.

BROWN: And, Jennifer, for tonight's debate, Ted Cruz is entering with some serious baggage about his financial disclosures in 2012, we were just talking about, not reporting that Goldman Sachs loan in the Senate race. He's someone who has been saying you can't trust Washington, but will this make it harder for voters to trust him?

JENNIFER RUBIN, "RIGHT TURN" BLOG, "WASHINGTON POST": I think so. I don't think this is about FEC forms. And, by the way, the purpose of that is so that you disclose it during the election and don't pull the wool over the voter's eyes. His whole pitch, as you say, has been this populous, anti-Wall Street, anti-government kind of mantra. And now we have a guy who got a loan from one of the prime movers in the housing crisis, two of them actually, Goldman and Citi Bank. He has been talking about New York values. Well, New York values may be borrowing money from these enormous banks that ordinary people don't have access to and then not following the rules when you are supposed to disclose them.

So, yes, I think it looks bad. It smells bad. Trump has that way, we saw in those clips, of just drawing a little bit of blood in the water just to get the sharks swirling. And so I think he's going to make fun of Trump. I think - of Cruz. I think he's going to bait him. And Cruz's problem is that if he swings and misses at Donald Trump, he looks really bad.

BROWN: Right. So what is he going to have to do? What tact will he have to take then in that case to sort of deflect the controversy and go after Donald Trump because up until this point he has been pretty polite.

RUBIN: Yes, I think the -

ALLEN: I think he's going to -

BROWN: Oh, go ahead. John, go ahead.

ALLEN: I was just going to say, I think he needs to get a better answer than the one he gave to Dana Bash. Her question was exactly on point. This is one of the nation's elite lawyers who failed to fill out the FEC forms. As Jennifer points out, the point of that is so that you know where he's getting his money from during the campaign. So, number one, he's going to have to answer that question better than he has so far. And, number two, he's got to figure out what nobody else has figured out yet, which is a way to knock down Donald Trump or to take swings at him without making him even stronger.

BROWN: Jennifer, what do you think?

RUBIN: I agree with John. Listen, Donald Trump has shown, for all of his goofiness and some of his looney ideas, he's immensely talented. He's learned to use the media. He learns to use his presence on the stage. And, you know, frankly, Ted Cruz thinks he's a little smarter than perhaps he is. And if he condescends to Trump, if he tries to lecture Trump, I think he's going to be sorry. I think he's going to get popped right between the eyes.

BROWN: And speaking of Trump, John, you just wrote a piece that the Democrats are actually handwringing over this notion of a Donald Trump presidency because Trump is more open to policies that perhaps appeal to democrats than any other Republican running. But, John, remember what Trump said about Mexicans when he announced his run. Here's a refresher. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're sending people that have lots of problem and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, John, do you really think the Democrats can forget what Trump said?

ALLEN: Well, I certainly don't think that most Hispanic Democrats are going to forget what Trump said and I don't think the vast majority of Democrats are going to forget what Trump said. But when you're talking about independents, maybe some Democratic-leaning independents and even maybe a few Democrats in some places of the country, he's got an opportunity to appeal. And, you know, don't - don't just take my word for it, though sources have been telling me privately that they're concerned that he could become president of the United States. Watch what President Obama did in the State of the Union earlier this week. He Spent the last State of the Union of his presidency and devoted the heart of that speech to Donald Trump and his ideas and taking them down. Democrats are worried about Donald Trump's ideas taking hold and they're worried about the possibility that Donald Trump could become president.

BROWN: And let's talk a little bit more about the Democratic race here because the most trusted poll in Iowa, "The Des Moines Register," a Bloomberg poll, it found that Hillary Clinton, take a look, is virtually tied with Sanders. She has 42 to his 40 percent. And that poll also found that Sanders is not gaining support while Clinton is losing support. John, what does that mean for the Clinton camp?

[14:10:11] ALLEN: It means that her camp and Bernie Sanders' camp are going to be working Martin O'Malley's voters very hard to make sure that they're the second choice in those caucuses, which have sort of a multi-tiered aspect. Look, her campaign is taking on water right now. There's no question that the polls have tightened. You know, she was looking for a silver lining. Maybe it would be that if she ultimately wins, she get some benefit from having beat expectations. But you wouldn't want to be in the Clinton camp's seat right now in terms of declining poll numbers.

BROWN: Jennifer, final word to you.

RUBIN: Hillary Clinton has proved time and time again she's just not a very good candidate. And doing things like attacking Bernie Sanders from the right on healthcare probably is not going to help her. Neither is sending her daughter out to attack her opponents. So I think they have a candidate problem on the Democratic side.

BROWN: All right, we are going to see how it all plays out. Jonathan Allen, Jennifer Rubin, thank you so much. Interesting to hear your perspectives.

ALLEN: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: And coming up right here in the NEWSROOM, a chilling Paris style attack. A suicide explosion near a Starbucks in Indonesia with gunmen opening fire as people scramble for safety. Was it the work of ISIS? We'll have a live report.

And, happening right now, a judge ordering the city of Chicago to release video showing the fatal police shooting of an unarmed teenager. The video is due to be released any moment now, as calls grow for Mayor Rahm Emanuel to resign.

Plus, overnight millionaires. Well, you didn't win the massive Powerball jackpot most likely, but moments ago we learned who did.

You're watching CNN. Stay with us.

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[14:15:50] BROWN: A series of coordinated and deadly attacks. Echoes of Paris in Indonesia's capital growing louder as we now get confirmation that ISIS is claiming responsibility. Explosions and gunfire turning the metropolitan streets of Jakarta into something resembling a war zone. Take a look here. It all began when a suicide bomber blew himself up right near a Starbucks. As people ran, gunmen were ready and waiting, opening fire as they fled the scene. And when police arrived, the attackers threw grenades at the officers. An unbelievable shootout between the attackers and police playing out right in front of those horrified bystanders. Police bringing down each attacker one by one. But by the end of this attack, at least two civilians were killed and dozens more were wounded.

I want to go live now to Jakarta and our senior international correspondent Ivan Watson for more on this.

So, Ivan, what can you tell us about these claims now of ISIS responsibility and the suspected mastermind?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, ISIS has claimed responsibility. They say that this was a - to get the citizens of the crusader alliance to teach them a lesson that there's no safe place in Muslim lands. And Indonesian police have also said they believe this is the act of ISIS. And they've named one Indonesian man, Bahrun Naim, who they say went to Syria to fight alongside ISIS and they say that he is trying to establish an ISIS network in southeast Asia, in Indonesia, Malaysia and in the Philippians.

I'm standing right now, Pamela, in front of that Starbucks where a suicide bomber attacked in this brazen attack in broad daylight. There's damage inside. There's some corrugated metal that's been put around there by security forces afterwards.

This is normally a really bustling place, even though it's 2:00 in the morning. It's dead quiet. The McDonalds, the Burger King here, all closed. And we're going to come across the street here. There was a traffic police post over here. This building right there. And that was another one of the targets of at least five attackers. They attacked here as well. It's been covered up since.

And you can see messages of condolence that have been brought in by Indonesians after this attack, which led, as you mentioned, to killing two people, civilians, one foreigner, unidentified, and an Indonesian. There are messages here that are worth noting. This is in the Indonesian language. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). And that means, "we are not afraid." And that's a message that the Indonesian president has said. It's a

message that Indonesians I've talked to have said in the wake of the worst terrorist attack that this city has seen in at least six years.

Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, certainly two too many dead, but it's remarkable that more weren't killed in that attack.

Ivan Watson, thank you so much.

And I want to bring in now Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst and former CIA operative.

So, Bob, ISIS says its soldiers carried out these attacks, as you just heard Ivan say, adding that the attacks were intended to, quote, "teach the citizens of the crusader alliance, that it does not protect them or guarantee them safety in the Muslim lands." Of course, Indonesia has the biggest Muslim population in the world per capita. So what does ISIS want there? Explain to us ISIS' ambitions for a foothold there.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Pamela, I think they're trying to draw adherence. And this is a very symbolic attack against Starbucks, an American company. A shootout with the police. The fact that these Indonesians were ready to martyr themselves is a message to the Indonesian Muslims. And most of them are Sunnis, by the way, the same as the Syrians and - the minority in Iraq. So it's very important for them to bring war to southeast Asia.

And jihadis I've been talking to recently said the Islamic State intends to sew chaos around the world. In fact, they had told me the same day as the Jakarta attack, I can't connect the two, but I mean this is - you know, it goes back to what we've been talking about for a long time, the longer these wars go on in Syria and Iraq, there's going to be sort of a normalization of war in this idea of spreading jihad. I mean I don't think it's going to catch on in Indonesia. But on the other hand, it - they did close down the center of the city.

[14:20:08] BROWN: And it's - it's made its way to the United States certainly. In fact, here in the U.S., two refugees from California and Texas are charged with trying to provide material support to ISIS. Also, the shooting of that police officer in Philadelphia is now a terror investigation. So, Bob, how are police tactics around the world going to change to keep up with these rogue attackers working in the name of ISIS? What has to happen?

BAER: Well, in the case of Jakarta, it was clear the police were ready for this. I mean they were well armed. They took the attackers on. They cut down the number of casualties. And we're going to have to simply have assaulters (ph) on our police force, if, in fact, this spreads to the United States. I mean it's not a dire situation now, but you're going to have to have the response, like New York City does, where you can get to any part of the city very quickly to take these people on. You know, smaller police forces, that's where the problem is, rural areas or even places like San Bernardino, where it's more difficult to train and to pay for these forces.

BROWN: Well, what strikes me also about this attack in Jakarta is that there's some similarities with what we saw in Paris just recently with the terrorist attack there, right?

BAER: Yes, exactly. It was a synchronized attack. Of course it didn't kill as many people. But the idea that you have multiple assaulters and ready to assault the police. You know, what these people depend upon is going to Syria or Iraq, getting combat experience and coming back home. So I think they were trying to mimic Paris. We'll wait to see what they say about this later on, but it certainly looks that way right now.

BROWN: Very troubling. Bob Baer, thank you very much.

And up next in the NEWSROOM on this Thursday, flirtatious text messages between notorious drug lord El Chapo and a popular Mexican actress. The actress now breaking her silence. What she says about her relationship with El Chapo, up next.

And just moments away from now, a Chicago court orders the release of videos in the police shooting death of yet another unarmed black teenager. What those videos show and how it could change the case. That's coming up right after this break. Stay with us.

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[14:26:27] BROWN: The actress and the drug lord. It sounds like the plot of a Spanish soap opera, but Mexican intelligence officials are exposing the very real relationship between Mexican actress Kate del Castillo and Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman and the text messages they exchanged. For the first time since the kingpin's capture, del Castillo is breaking her silence. And joining me more to talk about this -- to talk about this more is Nick Valencia. He is live in Mexico City.

So, Nick, these text messages are pretty revealing.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They - it's like there's a new thread every single day, Pamela, to this story. It's become somewhat of a soap opera here in this country. You have Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, who's allegedly responsible for the death of tens of thousands of Mexicans over the course of the last 10 years as this drug war has raged on, one of the most ruthless killers and criminals allegedly in all the world, and it seems as though it's love that ultimately brought him down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): CNN is learning the shocking visit by these two famous actors to the most infamous drug lord in the world came to the attention of U.S. law enforcement long before their October encounter. This as sources also say U.S. officials were alerted about Sean Penn's meeting with Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman soon after he arrived.

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're tremendously gratified that the capture was successful. And we look forward to having El Chapo face justice in an American court.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Mexican officials say they intercepted text messages between El Chapo and Mexican actress Kate del Castillo dating back to September of last year. El Chapo writing, "I really want to meet you in person, friend." The actress replies, "well, me too." Text, El Chapo, "you are the best of this world. We will be great friends. I'll take care of you, more than my own eyes." Del Castillo later asks El Chapo's associates to have Penn accompany her on the trip, to which he writes to them, "have her bring the actor. And if she sees the need to bring more people, let her bring them as she likes."

After the meeting in Mexico del Castillo texts, "I haven't been able to sleep much since I saw you. I'm very excited about our story. It's true, it's the only thing I can think of." On Wednesday, the actress took to Twitter defending herself, writing, quote, "many have chosen to make up items they think will make good stories and that aren't truthful. I look forward to sharing my story with you."

Since the drug lord's capture, Guzman has been moved from cell to cell. Mexican officials hoping that will ensure the two-time escapee from turning into a fugitive once again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Mexican authorities had a lead on El Chapo's whereabouts in the middle of September and they actually knew where he was, they allege, in October, but they didn't follow through with carrying out their operation because they were concerned that the two actors would be caught in the crossfire. Of course it took another three months to ultimately bring him down.

Pamela.

BROWN: So how all - how is all of this, Nick, sort of impacting, affecting the image of this notorious drug lord?

VALENCIA: Well, you have this larger than life drug lord, this cartel kingpin that rose to the very top of the Mexican cartel empire, only to come down like this as if almost it was a fan boy crush that brought him down. You see him be vulnerable enough to allow them to - her to bring Sean Penn, somebody that he didn't even know. In those text messages it was revealed he didn't even know who Sean Penn was but said he was willing to allow her to bring anyone and everyone that she wanted.

[14:29:56] It's a bit shocking here in Mexico. This man that has evaded captivity for so long, escaped prison twice and has just been really a legend here, so to speak, in the criminal underworld, only for him to fall and go out like this. I mean, you know, Pablo Escobar, he's been related to that a lot. Pablo Escobar went down shooting. You know, this is not --