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GOP Battle Brewing Ahead of CNN Debate; Black Lives Matter Activist Heckles Hillary Clinton; FBI Director Talks Cyber Threat in Congress. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 25, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:01] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It shows photos of Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Twitter's Jack Dorsey engulfed in flames and marked with bullet holes. The video was apparently made in response to efforts by Facebook and Twitter to stop terrorist activity on their sites.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, targeting Trump.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There has never been a candidate like Donald Trump.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has actually alluded to the fact that he thinks parts of Obamacare are pretty good.

COSTELLO: Five candidates, one debate stage and the frontrunner says, game on.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're looking forward to a good week next week.

COSTELLO: And Clinton interrupted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not a super predator, Hillary Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK. Fine. We'll talk about it --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you apologize to black people for mass incarcerations?

COSTELLO: Black Lives Matter protester crashed a private South Carolina fundraiser as Clinton and Sanders battle for minority voters.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Let's head to Houston now. A big debate on tamper tonight. Senator

Marco Rubio taking on Donald Trump, and Trump saying, bring it on. Right now the Republican presidential candidates are gearing up for the CNN GOP debate. It is the last time all of the candidates will share a stage before the all-important Super Tuesday. That means things could get pretty darn nasty. Rubio already attacking Trump by name and accusing Trump of not being an honest broker. Trump says he's ready.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you see as Senator Rubio's biggest vulnerability?

TRUMP: Well, I think I'll save that for tomorrow night. So we have to keep some good action for tomorrow night. But we'll be -- you know, we'll be totally prepared. And you know, people have not done very well against me. So far everybody that's attacked me has gone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. With Super Tuesday right around the corner, the stakes are high. 595. That's how many delegates will be up for grabs.

Let's head to Houston again. Sunlen Serfaty is there. Good morning.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Well, the debate stage is all set, and behind me, as you can see, at center stage is where Donald Trump will be standing as the frontrunner. He of course will likely be taking fire from all sides, but it's interesting. There is this battle that's brewing off stage. Former Republican nominee Mitt Romney saying that all candidates should release their tax returns and specific taking exception with Donald Trump, throwing it out there, he said that he believes that there's some sort of bombshell in Donald Trump's tax returns. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think there is something there. Either he's not anywhere near as wealthy as he says he is or he hasn't been paying the kind of taxes we would expect him to pay or perhaps he hasn't been giving money to the vets or the disabled like he's been telling us he's been doing and I think that's the -- the reason that I think there is a bombshell is in there is because every time he's asked about his taxes he dodges and delays and says well, we're working on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now Donald Trump immediately shot back to Romney calling him a fool, calling him yesterday's news, and he said he rejected the notion that there's any sort of bombshell in his tax returns. Here's what he told CNN's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: My returns are extremely complex. And I'll make a determination at the right time. I'm in no rush to do it. Nobody has been bringing it up except Mitt Romney. And the reason he brings it up is that he lost in the last election and lost very badly.

Tax returns are very complicated. I have many, many companies. I have, you know, tremendously -- you know, I have a very complex system of taxes, and, frankly, I get audited every single year. So, you know, mine -- unlike everybody else who never gets audited, I get audited every single year, which I think is unfair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now in that interview Trump left open the door to potentially not releasing his tax returns. He says it's something he will decide in the coming months. His opponents, though, are starting to latch on to this. Ted Cruz last night was asked. And he said Mitt Romney has a point here. I think we should be releasing our tax returns.

So, Carol, likely that will be a big flash point here tonight.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Sunlen Serfaty, live in Houston this morning, thank you.

So there's little doubt Donald Trump will be a target at tonight's GOP debate. Let's talk about that with Republican writer and commentator Kayleigh McEnany. She's also a Trump supporter. I'm also joined by Jason Russell. He's a commentary writer for the "Washington Examiner."

Welcome to both of you.

JASON RUSSELL, COMMENTARY WRITER, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Thank you.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So, Jason, why has Mitt Romney injected himself into this campaign?

RUSSELL: Well, why not? He's concerned about his party and the way that it's going. Clearly not the direction that Mitt Romney wants this party to be going in. So, you know, everything else has been tried against Donald Trump so far. Why not come out and say that he should release his tax returns?

[10:05:02] And maybe there is a bombshell in there. I mean, he had that event in Iowa. He skipped that debate and had that event for the veterans. But there's still no evidence that he donated any of that money he raised to any veterans' groups. So, you know, from Mitt Romney's perspective, why not try to get involved?

COSTELLO: Well, we did talk to one very small veteran's group that did accept a donation from Donald Trump on that day. But they're smaller veterans groups across the country, not the big larger ones that we always hear about. I just wanted to throw that out in fairness.

So, Kayleigh, why not -- why not just release -- why doesn't Donald Trump just release his tax returns and be done with it? If he has nothing to hide, what's the big deal?

MCENANY: Because Donald Trump is bucking the political rules. He has shown himself to do that and it's proven successful and fruitful.

Here's the thing. You know, Donald Trump plays by his own rules. It's worked. He's winning in every single category. And I have to wonder why Mitt Romney would come out and speculate as to there being a bombshell in Donald Trump's past. I mean, this is crazy. When you listen to him, you think you're listening to Hillary Clinton. Not a former Republican nominee. He knows nothing about Donald Trump's taxes and it's wrong of him to come out and just speculate.

To me it's one of the worst things we've seen on the campaign trail, to just come out and speculate about something you have zero knowledge about. It shows me that he's trying to prop up Rubio or Cruz. I'm not sure which but it's a very good thing.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Jason, some people might say that Mitt Romney sounds a lot like Harry Reid did back in, you know, 2012. Other people might say Mitt Romney is a rich guy. He knows what's up with the tax returns of the very wealthy and maybe he does know something. So which is it, Jason?

RUSSELL: No, I mean, to be fair, I do think -- I'm sure Donald Trump's tax returns are very complicated. Obviously there's a lot of money there and lots of companies like he said. I'm sure it'll be a long process to figure out how to release that. Still, he says that Mitt Romney sounds like Hillary Clinton but sometimes I think Donald Trump sounds like Hillary Clinton. That's why the head of Planned Parenthood was out on TV yesterday praising Donald Trump for all the nice things he's been saying about Planned Parenthood. It kind of cuts both ways on this issue.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about tonight's debate and where the attacks will come from because Marco Rubio is now on the attack. Ted Cruz has upped his attack. So it will probably be, what, like Cruz and Rubio ganging up on Donald Trump? Is that what you see, Kayleigh?

MCENANY: I definitely see that. You know, all eyes are on the frontrunner. Everyone wants to attack Donald Trump. But that's the thing that's going to be so successful and fruitful for Donald Trump is that he is best when he's on the attack. And he hasn't -- we haven't seen him attack Rubio yet. I think we'll see that tonight for the first time. And there's a lot of ammo there. You know, Rubio has to answer for why he's missed so many Senate votes, very important ones like the Omnibus vote. You know, why was he with Hillary Clinton on invading Libya, on invading Egypt, on toppling these dictators? Why was he with Chuck Schumer on immigration? There is so much material there, and if Rubio attacks Trump, Trump will attack him back. And I don't think it will be a very good night for Marco Rubio.

COSTELLO: What do you think, Jason? RUSSELL: Well, I mean., I expect, of course, Donald -- sorry, Ted

Cruz and Marco Rubio to try to gang up on Donald Trump. That's what's been happening thus far. But so far he's -- you know, weathered all of these attacks based on his policies. I mean, we all know that Donald Trump isn't a real conservative based off, like I said, his support for Planned Parenthood, and --

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: He does not support Planned Parenthood. Jason, why do you keep saying that. He does not. He has called it an abortion factory. That's hardly support for Planned Parenthood.

RUSSELL: But he has been --

COSTELLO: But he also said -- but Donald Trump also said that there were good things that Planned Parenthood did. He did say that, Kayleigh.

MCENANY: Sure, and there are some good things that Planned Parenthood does. Maybe we need to remove those from Planned Parenthood and put them in a different entity, but the women's health aspect is a good thing. But you can still be for women's health and funding but be against this abortion aspect of Planned Parenthood that has been egregious for this country.

COSTELLO: OK. Jason, last word?

RUSSELL: My recommendation for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio is -- I mean. these attacks on Donald Trump's policies have not worked. They need to show that his character is not up to snuff for a presidential candidate of the Republican -- sorry, party. He has a long history of -- I mean, there's just a BuzzFeed article yesterday about all these vile things he said about having sex with women on the Howard Stern show. Attack him on things like that. Attack him on his bankruptcies. Show that he's not this winner -- burst his bubble, this cult of personality that he has.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Kayleigh McEnany, Jason Russell, thanks to both of you.

Five Republicans, one stage, head to head, tune in for the CNN Republican presidential debate live from Houston, Texas, 8:30 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, this Black Lives Matter activist interrupts a Hillary Clinton event demanding an apology. We'll tell you why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:13:44] COSTELLO: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders battle for the black vote has dominated headlines ahead of this weekend's South Carolina primary. Both candidates ramping up their outreach as Clinton enjoys a commanding lead with this key group, but at a private event last night in Charleston, Clinton's past fight on crime came under scrutiny from a Black Lives Matter activist Ashleigh Williams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I'm sure that South Carolina became the first state with body cameras. There is more work to be done. But I'll lay down these markers. You've got to build toward commonsense. And we got somebody saying here, we have to bring them --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want you to apologize for mass incarceration --

CLINTON: OK. We'll talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not a super predator, Hillary Clinton.

CLINTON: OK. Fine. We'll talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you apologize to black people for mass incarceration?

CLINTON: Well, can I talk and then maybe you should listen to what I say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You called black --

CLINTON: And about --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- people predators.

CLINTON: You're being rude.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Super predators. That's rude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not appropriate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's rude.

CLINTON: Yes. You want to hear --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that you called black --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're trespassing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- youths super predators in 1994. Please explain your record. Explain it to us. You owe black people an apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So let's talk about this. CNN's Chris Frates is traveling with the Bernie Sanders campaign. He is in Berea, Ohio, near Cleveland. And John Avlon is editor in chief of the "Daily Beast" and a CNN political commentator. [10:15:06] John, I want to start with you. That episode there. It

was -- you know, it was set up by Ashley Williams and she wanted to prove a point. Will it resonate with black voters, though?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think if you look at the polls in South Carolina nationally, I mean, Hillary Clinton is trouncing Bernie Sanders when it comes to support from the African- American community and African-American in particular and African- American millennials were in Bernie Sanders' camp. They've been trying to make an inroad, too. It doesn't look like it's converting as well as they hope.

I mean, there is a robust debate going on inside the Democratic Party right now. And the activists who have -- many of whom are supporting Bernie Sanders, are confronting Hillary Clinton. But I don't know that that young woman represents, and there's not lot of evidence to suggest that she represents the vast majority of African-American voters. In fact the opposite seems to be true, particularly in South Carolina.

COSTELLO: Yes. I want to play the specific -- the specific comment that Hillary Clinton said back in 1994 that this woman is protesting. And it was when Hillary Clinton was first lady and her husband Bill Clinton of course was president. And he passed that crime bill. Let's listen to what Hillary Clinton said back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predators, no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, John, again, I know that Bill Clinton apologized for, you know, signing that crime bill into law. He did that before the NAACP. Bernie Sanders actually voted for this bill when he was in Congress.

AVLON: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, again, how much does this all matter?

AVLON: Look, I think it matters as much as people need to be held accountable for past statements and policies as a matter of consistency, but look, let's have a reality check about the crime bill for a second. You know, America was averaging 24,000 murders a year. There have been a massive spike. And in the wake of the crime bill being passed in 1993, we now average around 10,000 fewer murders in America. And that's not all due to the crime bill, but the crime bill was an important piece of policy. And many of that reduced number of dead in the streets come from African-American communities.

So it is normal, and it is important that every reform itself needs to be reformed down the line, and now we need to deal with the unintended consequences of mass incarceration. But I think dismissing the crime bill is intentionally and wholesale racist doesn't fit the facts and I think we need to have that reality check in these conversations as well.

COSTELLO: OK. Let's head out to go Berea, Ohio, and Chris Frates because he's at this big Bernie Sanders rally. Bernie Sanders has talked about this a little bit, but does it matter as far as he's concerned either?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, Carol, Bernie Sanders has known for weeks now that he needs to start talking to the African-American community. And he's been doing that throughout his stump speeches. He talks about criminal justice reforms, he talks about racial inequality and economic inequality. In fact let's take a listen. Just last night he was talking about this issue. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a campaign that understands that 150 years ago African-Americans and their white allies began the process of saying that in America we will not tolerate racism and bigotry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So there you have Bernie Sanders talking about one of the big themes of his campaign. Progress in terms of racial equality and the struggle for that 150 years ago. Those are the kinds of things you've been hearing from Bernie Sanders on the trail. And that's because he does need to make these inroads. If you look at South Carolina, Secretary Clinton is leading him by double digits. That's largely because she does have such strong support among the African-American community, and that's part of the reason also why Bernie Sanders is here in Ohio today.

He's going to Michigan and Illinois because he's taking a 50-state strategy. And it may seem a little strange with South Carolina just two days to go, but part of that reason is look at the calendar. There are 24 contests coming up in the next few weeks, and they will dole out the bulk of the delegates these candidates need to win the nomination. And so if you look at the math there, they will all be -- they'll be given out proportionally. So that means that Bernie Sanders could fight Hillary Clinton to a tie in a lot of these places, and in a place like Ohio, if he can put points on the board, that's going to be very, very important for him because these aren't strongholds for him.

Bernie Sanders strong in the New England states, Vermont, Massachusetts. If he could do well in Colorado, they think also they'll do well in Texas. And they're trying this kind of stay even with her in these other states as they make these inroads because this campaign understands that going forward, Carol, after South Carolina, they do need to pick up more African-American support because that is a huge base for these primary voters. So look for Bernie Sanders today and going forward to talk about these important issues to the African-American community -- Carol.

[10:20:10] COSTELLO: All right. I got to leave it there. Chris Frates, John Avlon, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Super Tuesday with a large number of delegates up for grabs, the stakes are high. And Texas is the crown jewel. Thanks to Donald Trump and Marco Rubio, though, Cruz's home state might not go to him. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Your iPhone and what the government can do with it dominated a Capitol Hill hearing on world-wide terror threats.

[10:25:02] The director of the National Intelligence and the heads of the CIA, FBI, and NSA just wrapped up testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. They talked a whole lot about Apple.

Evan Perez in Washington, monitoring the testimony. Laurie Segall has been following the privacy fight.

Evan, what happened?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Carol, you know, normally these hearings are dominated by talk about ISIS and even the threat posed by Russia and the war in Syria, but today, definitely, Apple was on the minds of many members of Congress. And you can actually see some of the split there among the members of this intelligence committee. Some of them were asking questions about the -- sort of slip that might happen here if the FBI gets access to this one cell phone that was used by one of the terrorists in San Bernardino. That this could lead to other cases and that could -- it could limit our privacy rights.

James Comey, the director of the FBI, had some answers to that question. He says, essentially, that this is really about this one phone, but he admitted that there are broader implications at play. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: This case, and all cases are very, very important. But there's a broader policy question that is far larger than any individual case that we all have to grapple with. But to the case, first, I think the answer would best come from a technical expert and a good lawyer. I'm neither of those but I will take a shot at it. I do think that it is potentially, whatever the judge's decision is in California, and I'm sure it will be appealed no matter how it ends up, will be instructive for other courts and there may well be other cases that involve the same kind of phone and the same operating system.

What the experts have told me is the combination -- here's where I'm going to get well out of my depth -- of a 5c and this particular operating system, is sufficiently unusual that it's unlikely to be a trailblazer because of technology being the limiting principle. But sure, a decision by a judge, the judge weighing a decision in Brooklyn right now, all of those decisions will guide how other courts handle similar requests.

The All Writs Act, as you mentioned, is a tool that I used as a young prosecutor. We use for hundreds of years so that courts can have their orders given effect and how judges interpret that in any particular jurisdiction is not binding on others but will be important. So I think that's fair to say, but I do think the larger question is not going to be answered in the courts and shouldn't be because it's really about who do we want to be as a country and how do we want to govern ourselves?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, Carol, what he is referring to about the broader implications there is that we now know, according to these court filings that had been filed in a case in Brooklyn and in San Bernardino, that the FBI and Apple are fighting over 12 different cases where the FBI or some other U.S. federal agency is trying to get into a cell phone and Apple is resisting those orders. So this is a case that definitely has big, big implications for both security and for privacy.

COSTELLO: Absolutely, and you know, while you were playing that, you know, what James Comey said before Congress, before that intelligence committee, Laurie Segall was sitting beside me shaking her head.

So what about what James Comey said bugged you?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: No, listen, I think what you're going to hear when they say this is limited, this is for a very specific type of iPhone, the first thing you'll hear when you talk to security experts is they'll tweak the code a little bit. This -- you know, the implications of this are far reaching, are much broader. And when you heard Tim Cook last night in an interview with ABC talk about it, he touched on that. And he's also said that this is one of the most significant challenges he's had as a CEO because he fundamentally disagrees with the government.

I think Evan touched on the fact that that's where we stand right now. You know, and he also said this is about the future. This is about people being able to protect themselves. Listen to what he said in this interview, Carol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM COOK, APPLE CEO: This case is not about my phone. This case is about the future. What is at stake here is, can the government compel Apple to write software that we believe would make hundreds of millions of customers vulnerable around the world, including the U.S.?

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS: And you'd have to write that system in order to unlock that phone?

COOK: Yes. The only way we know would be to write a piece of software that we view as sort of the software equivalent of cancer. We think it's bad news to write. We would never write it. We have never written it. And that is what is at stake here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEGALL: He goes on to say, you know, what if they are compelled to build an operating system that has surveillance tactics or a camera built in. So he says this is just the beginning. You know, and he also goes on to say that this shouldn't be -- as FBI Director Comey said, this shouldn't be decided in court. This should be decided in Congress. It should be decided by the law. He said what if one court sees as precedent for a divorce case and another sees a precedent for a tax case?

So, you know, I think what you're seeing here is you're seeing almost policy catching up to technology which is this classic case, and this is the one that could absolutely set the precedent here.

COSTELLO: I think we've been doing that for a long time, right?

SEGALL: Yes.

COSTELLO: The Internet sort of surprised everyone when it shouldn't have.

SEGALL: Yes.

COSTELLO: Laurie Segall, thanks so much. Evan Perez, thanks to you, too.