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Attacks, Insults Fly at GOP Debate; Bernie Sanders Attacks Hillary Clinton Over Trade Deals; Jindal Claims Obama Created Trump; Trump Defends Torture During GOP Debate. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 04, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Venomous, vulgar and downright dirty. Donald Trump defending the size of his manhood on stage at the GOP debate, and just last hour celebrating his ruckus debate performance with supporters.

This rally in Warren, Michigan, not far from the site of last night's faceoff, became a Motor City meltdown last night with attacks and the attacks were angry and they were personal. As the four surviving candidates go for the knockout punch, the frontrunner Donald Trump wears the bull's eye and proves once again he will hit below the belt, quite literally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at those hands. Are they small hands? And he referred to my hands, if they are small, something else must be small. I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee you.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS DEBATE MODERATOR: I have a policy question for you, sir.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's see if he answers it.

WALLACE: Your --

TRUMP: I will. Don't worry about it, Marco. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, Little Marco. I will.

RUBIO: All right, well, let's hear it, Big Don. Big Donald.

TRUMP: Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, Little Marco.

WALLACE: Gentlemen.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But if in fact you went to Manhattan and said, I'm lying to the American people, then the voters have a right to know.

TRUMP: No, no. You're the liar. You're the lying guy up here.

CRUZ: Because you've been lying so many times.

TRUMP: You're the one.

CRUZ: Why don't you release the tapes? Release the tapes.

TRUMP: You're the one. Now let me just tell you.

CRUZ: Why don't you release the tape, then?

TRUMP: I've given my answer, Lying Ted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. And so it goes. MJ Lee, live in Warren, she's at Trump's big rally this morning. Good morning, MJ.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. The morning after an amazingly ruckus debate, Donald Trump is incredibly fired up and essentially taking a victory lap here in Warren, Michigan. He's telling supporters here that he has no doubt that he was the winner of the debate last night. And right off the bat he laid into Marco Rubio, calling him by his new favorite nickname for the Florida senator, calling him Little Marco and saying that the people of Florida are not so fond of him. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Little Marco, Little Marco.

(CHEERS)

TRUMP: Do you know that in Florida they hate Little Marco Rubio so much. It's true.

(CHEERS)

TRUMP: Because of the fact that he never votes. He never shows up to vote. So when you think -- I mean, actually, if I use -- I'll use a word that he uses, he has conned the people of Florida into voting for him, and I'll tell you what, they are angry because he never shows. He has the worst voting record in all of Florida. He has the worst voting record in the United States Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Now, Carol, interesting that he chose the specific word conned to describe Marco Rubio. Of course, you know that Rubio over the last several weeks has been going after Trump really hard, calling him a con artist, saying one thing to get elected and then will flip on all of his policy positions once he is elected president.

Now it's also notable that it does seem as though all of the attacks that have been placed on Donald Trump over the last few months are, you know, starting to get to Trump. He defended Trump University, something that came up at the debate last night. And also went after hard -- after Mitt Romney who delivered a remarkable speech yesterday, basically telling the American people to stop Trump from becoming president -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. MJ Lee reporting live from Warren, Michigan.

Let's head back to Detroit, to the FOX Theater. CNN's Phil Mattingly is there.

You know, at some point a nominee is going to be selected. Will the others support whoever that will be, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Carol, last night ruckus, often drifting into juvenile. But one of the most interesting moments of the night was actually one of goodwill. It came an hour and 55 minutes into the crazy debate, and this is what the candidates said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS DEBATE MODERATOR: Tonight in 30 seconds, can you definitively say you will support the Republican nominee even if that nominee is Donald J. Trump?

Senator Rubio, yes or no?

RUBIO: I'll support the Republican nominee.

TRUMP: Mr. Trump, yes or no?

RUBIO: I'll support Donald if he's the Republican nominee.

CRUZ: Yes, because I gave my word that I would, and then what I have endeavored to do every day in the Senate is do what I said I would do.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he ends up as the nominee, sometimes he makes it a little bit hard, but, you know, I will support whoever is the Republican nominee for president.

WALLACE: Can you definitively say tonight that you will definitely support the Republican nominee for president even if it's not you?

TRUMP: The answer is, yes, I will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Carol, all four candidates remaining true to that Republican National Committee pledge that was made last year, and here's why that's important. It really undercuts the, quote, "never Trump movement" that's really been rising on social media and online. Top Republican officials, former Republican officials, top conservative minds all saying that they will not vote for Trump.

[10:05:04] It appeared at least at one point Marco Rubio and his team were on board with that tweeting out the #neverTrump. Last night making clear that at least for the moment they're not disappointing some of those supporters who were really hoping that the answer was anybody but Trump -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly reporting live in Detroit this morning. Thank you.

It is fair to say some Republicans are despondent the day after the debate, not for the poor showing for -- by a particular candidate but instead for the damage done to their party's brand.

Jamie Johnson who worked on the presidential campaign of Republican Rick Perry tweeted this, quote, "My party is committing suicide on national television."

So let's talk about that. Katrina Pearson is here. She's the national spokeswoman for the Trump campaign. And Amanda Carpenter is here, too. She's the former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz.

Welcome to both of you.

KATRINA PEARSON, NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Hi, Carol.

AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SEN. TED CRUZ: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Katrina, less than 10 minutes into the -- less than 10 into the debate your boss, Mr. Trump, referenced the size of his manhood. Doesn't that cheapen the debate in this country?

PEARSON: Well, he was actually responding to Marco Rubio referencing the exact same thing, but you didn't show that clip to put it in context. But he was responding. Mr. Trump will respond when he is attacked and that is exactly what he did.

COSTELLO: Amanda, is that fair? I mean, my guess Marco Rubio, like brought it on when he talked about Donald Trump's small hands, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this on national television, but Amanda, your take?

CARPENTER: Yes, it's embarrassing. I have to tell you, I woke up this morning feeling nauseous, and granted, there's a flu going around, but it's because of Donald Trump's debate performance. It makes me sick. There's a Trump effect and it's nausea. I mean, we could go ahead and say, Marco Rubio is to blame. No. Donald Trump goes to the bottom of the barrel, gutter politics at every opportunity. If he becomes president, guess what? You're going to get a lot of untact, a lot of unfair attacks.

It's the president's job to rise above it and challenge not only himself but the office and the country to be better. And Trump is not getting better. He's not acting like a frontrunner. He's not acting like a leader. And that's what makes it so sickening to watch. Republicans have an historic opportunity to retake the White House with solid majorities in the House and Senate. Donald Trump is blowing that. People are willing to walk away from the party at this point because he is so embarrassing. He's not a unifier. He's a divider. He's alienating. And this is what is making everyone so sick.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Katrina -- Katrina.

PEARSON: This is what's interesting also, Carol.

COSTELLO: Katrina --

PEARSON: Because we have the same people who for the last two cycles have said simply we have to respect the process. The establishment running is super PAC ads against our candidate. They're trying to destroy their character, they're tearing them down. The people need to decide. The people want what they want. And here we are this election cycle where Mr. Trump isn't doing running attack ads. He isn't doing character assassinations and the people are voting for him. And now it's -- well, it's not our guy and the way we want him to be so we don't want him either.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Wait. You said Donald Trump wasn't doing character assassinations? Wait a minute. You said Donald --

PEARSON: No, there are no super PAC ads. There are no super PAC ads.

COSTELLO: But the candidate himself is maligning his other candidates.

CARPENTER: He does it himself.

PEARSON: Because he's defending himself. I mean, did we not just hear a speech given my Mitt Romney? Did we not just see last week where Republicans -- and let me just say this. I have spent the last six years on national television defending the GOP from racist charges, and we saw every single other candidate participate in the false narrative. And that's what's nauseating and disgusting.

COSTELLO: Amanda?

CARPENTER: Donald Trump has had every opportunity. He has a massive platform. He has the cameras on him at all times to be a better candidate. He never makes that choice. Last night we saw him on stage say to Marco Rubio, Little Marco, Little Marco, Lying Ted Cruz.

I don't want a bully for president. He is belligerent. He is dangerous. He stokes hatred in this country. He gets people stirred up and this is not what true leaders do. This is why people are walking away. I mean, I cannot -- I am a hardcore conservative Republican.

Katrina, we've worked together on Tea Party issues in the past. We both share those values. I cannot in good conscience vote for Donald Trump with this kind of boorish behavior.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Katrina, can I ask you a question? PEARSON: There are many people, though -- there are many people --

COSTELLO: Katrina, Katrina.

PEARSON: Yes. Go ahead, Carol.

COSTELLO: I just want -- Donald Trump is really far ahead of these other candidates. What's the strategy behind using this kind of language? What's his strategy? Why does he do it? And I know you're going to say well, because the others attack him, but it's deeper than that, isn't it?

PEARSON: Well, yes, but there's no news flash here. Mr. Trump is not politically correct. In this case, he was simply responding to the exact insinuation that Marco Rubio had talked about before. He would have never responded if Marco Rubio hadn't even mentioned it.

[10:10:01] So he's not politically correct, and everyone is conditioned that you have to be some sort of milk toast and diplomatic.

COSTELLO: Well you know --

PEARSON: And that's just not the way Mr. Trump is.

COSTELLO: You know there's politically correct and then there's stuff like this. Do you want the future president of the United States to inspire headlines like this? Even if this is a tabloid?

PEARSON: Do you think that even if it was any other Republican that those organizations wouldn't be putting out some other type of headline? Republicans are going to get attacked relentlessly by the media and the left. And what we're seeing now are Republicans joining in the game.

CARPENTER: Yes, and I think, Katrina, you are right on that front. I worked for Ted Cruz, he was relentlessly attacked in the media and he never went to that level. Marco Rubio has had a lot of unfair attacks against him, primarily by Donald Trump being called Little Marco. You know, he doesn't go to that level. Sure, he told a couple of jokes, I think, largely goaded by people to adopt Trump's tactics. And it rightly sort of backfired.

PEARSON: Right.

CARPENTER: But here's the thing, you're right. Donald Trump is not politically correct. He is not civil. This is who he is. It's who he's always been. He's not going to change. And that's why he's not equipped to be a leader of this country.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Amanda Carpenter, Katrina Pearson, thanks to you both.

PEARSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: All right. It's a kind of March Madness, right? Starting this weekend, right here on CNN, our own kind of March Madness begins on Sunday with the next Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan. That's followed by premiere of the new CNN series, "RACE TO THE WHITE HOUSE."

Next Tuesday, another Super Tuesday with four states holding primaries. On Wednesday it's another Democratic debate in Miami and Thursday a Republican debate in Miami. A week, a whole week of political events right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Bernie Sanders lays into Hillary Clinton ahead of the CNN debate. But she's turned her attention to the Republicans. Live tweeting the debate with sarcastic comments like that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:42] COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders launching into Hillary Clinton attacking his rival over trade agreements he said hurt American workers, and shrugging off calls by some of his colleagues to back off attacks on Clinton's record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, in many ways Democrats can say what they want. We're in this race to win it. We just won four states, three of them with landslide votes. We lost Massachusetts, taking on the entire political establishment but only by one point and we end up with one delegate less than Secretary Clinton.

We're in this race to win. We're doing the best that we can do. I think -- I don't run negative campaign ads but I do think it is appropriate that in a campaign you distinguish your differences with your opponents. Otherwise why run?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Joe Johns covering the Democrats this morning. Good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Bernie Sanders is just not letting up on his quest to pick up delegates to the Democratic convention wherever he can get them. He's hoping the focus on trade deals will help him in Michigan because of the loss of manufacturing jobs there over the last decade and a half. And in cities like Flint, Michigan, where the Democratic debate is scheduled over the weekend Sanders is quoting statistics that say tens of thousands of jobs have been lost in the city since the late 1970s.

And Sanders is taking it all the way back to the North American Free Trade Agreement as well as permanent normal trade relations with China, which he opposed. Fast forward to today, he's hitting Hillary Clinton on the Transpacific Trade deal that many progressives in Congress opposed. She is seen as vulnerable on that because as a leading member of the Obama administration, she was obligated to support the deal. But now she says she opposes it. Sanders is in crisscrossing Michigan today with appearances in Grand

Rapids and he's going to be at Macomb Community College while Hillary Clinton is going to do a speech in Detroit -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

We know what Hillary Clinton was doing last night. She was watching the Republican debate, and her camp, well, they were tweeting up a storm.

"How many more of these do we have to sit through," she asks in a tweet, "Asking for a friend." And then there was this one put out by the Clinton camp. It went psychedelic. "Marriage equality is the new law of the land," and you see Clinton rocking it out there.

The one-time presidential -- but one-time Republican presidential candidate Bobby Jindal says Democrats should not be laughing. Governor Jindal wrote an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal" titled, quote, "President Obama created Donald Trump." In it Jindal writes, quote, "After the cool weak and endlessly nuanced Obama, no wonder voters are going for a strong, blunt leader."

So let's talk about this. I want to bring in CNN Politics executive editor, Mark Preston, and political editor for TheRoot.com, Jason Johnson.

Welcome to both of you.

Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Jason, Bobby Jindal's message is clear in that op-ed. He blames Obama for Trump. Is there something there?

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICS EDITOR, THEROOT.COM: No. This is garbage. This is like Batman caused the Joker. No crazy people don't need inspiration. OK. Donald Trump is the creation of the Republican Party. He's the result of birtherism, he's the result of the Republican Congress not improving infrastructure. To say that he is clearly on the back of Barack Obama is to deny the entire Republican Party agency.

And let's remember, Donald Trump doesn't have the nomination yet. It seems really early for Jindal to be blaming this on Obama when in fact there's a lot of competition to be done, and Trump isn't necessarily going to be representing them.

COSTELLO: But, Mark, isn't it fair to say there is a good amount of anger directed at President Obama?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: There certainly is, but let me just extrapolate this a little bit more. Donald Trump has had his moment in time right now because of something that happened back in 2008, 2009, when we saw the birth of the Tea Party. There was always an angry electorate out there, there was always an angry part of the Republican Party frustrated at the inaction in Washington or the fact that they didn't like what was happening in Washington.

What I think -- what has happened is you saw that, you know, rise and ebb and flow over the past couple of years. They never really had a person that they could follow. It was Sarah Palin for a while but she fell off. Other than talk radio, they didn't have this big figure head.

[10:20:01] Step in Donald Trump, who has a larger-than-life personality, who speaks to a lot of their concerns and their anger, and that's why we're at the situation right now with Donald Trump and the success that he's receiving with the very angry electorate out there.

COSTELLO: OK. So just to delve a little deeper into Bobby Jindal's op-ed, Jason, and I'm going to read you a part of it, because here is where he's coming from. He says that -- well, I'll ask you this way. Is there any truth to Jindal's idea that real and perceived presidential failures have a pendulum effect that a complacent Carter on international breeds a cowboy Reagan, that a skirt-chasing Bill Clinton breeds a plainspoken George W. Bush?

JOHNSON: Well, yes. Every single president we get is a result of what people think of the last president. But that's not the same thing as justifying and excusing, you know, some of the behavior that we've seen from Donald Trump. OK, President Obama isn't very good at making deals and Trump may be better. But are we supposed to believe that because President Obama was so progressive and open to the LGBT community and the black community and the Latino community, that we get a virulent racist who pals around with terrorist organizations like the Klan?

That doesn't make any sense. It also denies, and actually to be perfectly candid, I think it's an insult to the Republican Party because you still have a majority of Republican voters who aren't endorsing Donald Trump and his behavior. And I think Bobby Jindal is really just grasping at straws here because he doesn't understand why his campaign and several other Republicans weren't more successful in an open year like this.

COSTELLO: Well, why do you think, Mark, that Bobby Jindal wrote this op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal"?

PRESTON: Because Bobby Jindal is very prolific in writing op-eds and basically he tried to run his presidential campaign through the op-ed pages of newspapers across the country, and he wants to be relevant. I mean, he's a thinker in the Republican Party. He's certainly one of the really smart policy types in the Republican Party, but right now he's out of the game. So in order to become relevant in the game, to have a voice in the game, you have to write op-eds like this. He's no longer the governor of Louisiana. He's not a member of Congress.

The likes of Lindsey Graham, you know, who left the presidential race, but yet still has that soap box to be able to go on Capitol Hill and be heard, that's why folks like that are listened to. Bobby Jindal has to turn to the op-ed pages.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Jason Johnson, Mark Preston, thanks to both of you.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump defending torture again this morning. But could he actually carry out those policies as commander-in-chief?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:58] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

After a fiery debate last night the candidates are back on the campaign trail.

You're looking at live pictures out of Orono, Maine, where Ted Cruz is getting ready to hold a big rally. Of course we'll continue to monitor you for this throughout the hour. And when Senator Cruz takes the stage, we'll bring it back.

Last night's Republican debate was interesting, to say the least. In between the mudslinging and personal attacks, the candidates actually did find some time to talk policy. For example, Donald Trump defended his stance on water boarding. A stance he echoed just moments ago. Here's how he responded when he was asked about recent criticism from former CIA director Michael Hayden. That the military could actually refuse to carry out certain orders from Mr. Trump like killing the family members of terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse me. Believe me.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Can you imagine these people, these animals over in the Middle East that chop off heads sitting around talking and seeing that we're having a hard problem with water boarding? We should go for water boarding and we should go tougher than water boarding.

BAIER: But targeting terrorist's families?

TRUMP: And -- and I'm a leader. I'm a leader. I've always been a leader. I've never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they're going to do it. That's what leadership is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: William Cohen who served as Defense secretary under Bill Clinton says comments like those not only send the wrong message to the world, they'd be war crimes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: There's something called Nuremberg that we have to be concerned about that you have an order given by the commander-in-chief which violates every sense of law and order, international law and order, that would make any of those who carried out that dictum as such to be a violation of the International Criminal Code.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this. Conservative radio talk show host and CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson is here, and Ron Brownstein, the editorial director for the "National Journal" and CNN senior political analyst, joins me, too.

Welcome, Gentlemen.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So should I just get your overall view of the Republican debate last night, Ben, before we delve into military matters?

FERGUSON: Sure. I think, one, it's definitely not over. And I think last night you saw Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio do something they should have done a long time. That was go after Barack Obama -- I should say, Donald Trump, on specifics instead of these generalized ideas that he has. I mean, you even heard him talk about last night how he said Barack Obama was an empty suit and didn't have plans yet they're saying the exact same thing about Donald Trump. What are your actual plans?

They should have done this months ago. But these generalized statements that we're going to make America great again, they seemed to be able to attack him on that. They were also able to talk to him and attack him on things that are real issues for him. Trump University is one of those. They should have done this a lot sooner. But it's going to be interesting to see what the impact is on these next primary states coming up.

COSTELLO: All right. So, Ron, let's talk about specific policy, namely the use of torture. Right? You heard what Donald Trump said.