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New Arrests in Belgium; ISIS Finance Minister Killed. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired March 25, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:17] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And here we go. You're live watching CNN on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Let's begin this hour with the intense terror raids and an urgent manhunt for suspects in Belgium. Gunfire and explosions continuing to go off in this Brussels neighborhood there of Schaerbeek. A suspect was wounded during a major police operation. And as you're looking at this video with me, you'll be able to see that this - from this witness video, a bomb disposal robot, there you go, approaching him, and then police drag him from the bus stop. He is believed to be linked to Tuesday's attacks.

Meantime, in France, authorities there say that they thwarted a terror plot near Paris overnight and arrested a French national who is suspected of planning a quote/unquote "advance stage attack." French police also recovered a Kalashnikov rifle and more than four pounds of TATP. That is that same explosive, the nickname is Mother of Satan, because it's so vulnerable when it's placed near heat. And that was used in Tuesday's bombings and in the sophisticated, coordinated attacks November 13th in Paris last year.

The manhunt still underway for two suspects connected to the massacre in Brussels. A U.S. officials tells CNN that the U.S. believes it knows the identity of this man. The revelation coming as Brussels concedes it needs help from the U.S., yet Belgium not revealing that I.D.

Then there is just the staggering human toll. The Department of State now confirms that two Americans were killed in Tuesday's bombings. Out of respect, of course, to the families, their names have not yet been released. But U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry just telling CNN's Erin Burnett he believes Tuesday's bombings were an attack on America.

So let's go straight to Erin. She is in Brussels again for us today.

And so what did the secretary tell you?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Brooke, he did say he thinks this is an attack on America. He said it's an attack on Europe. It's an attack on all of the values that we cherish and hold dear. But he was unequivocal. And when I said, is it an attack on America, he said, yes, of course. An incredibly short answer from a man not known for his brevity. He made it very clear how he felt on that. And we're going to bring you my full interview with Secretary of State John Kerry, who was here meeting with the Belgians talking about improving the terror fighting here, in a moment.

But I want to go first to the site of today's raid. Also the same area - as a matter of fact, I was there today. It's about two miles, Brooke, just about two miles from where a taxi driver told police he picked up three men and took them to the Brussels airport. Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is where that raid took place.

You know, Nick, we have seen such an increase in activity. Last night you were at the scene of raids. Today, right by that tram stop, unclear whether the man was getting off the train or off the tram or on or coming from a house and I know where you are is the shootout, the glass and what are you learning now about what exactly happened at that bus station?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's pretty clear from witnesses and some amateur video that's emerged that the man, we don't know who he is, but he was sat (ph) in the tram stop behind me there. You can't see the bench. It's obscured by the (INAUDIBLE). But you can see the damage done to the glass wall there.

Now, witnesses say he was sat there. And some armature video suggests there was somebody, perhaps a young girl or a woman next to him at the time of the incident. He was approached by police. And then witnesses say they heard two shots.

Now, he was clearly injured in the leg. Witnesses say they heard a third sound after that which was that of an explosion. Now, video and witnesses also say, you know, at that point he was laying on the floor wearing a backpack and we've seen amateur video that shows the police moving in after it appears that robot went to the scene. Perhaps ascertaining there was no immediate threat, moved in and dragged him away, in fact in a distance away from where I'm standing. But there was a very small amount of blood left on the street there.

Who is he? We don't know. We know that the mayor suggests he is linked to the Brussels attacks of Tuesday. He is injured. He is in police custody. And I have to tell you, Erin, given, you know, (INAUDIBLE) given the volume of police presence there was during that raid, they must have been deeply concerned.

There was another bag at one point laying just here to my side. We saw bomb disposal experts heading towards that and the police picking through it later on as well. The tram, which, in fact, moved past here, seems at some point during that incident was then stopped slightly up the road there. People taken off it and allowed to go about its way.

But right now the scene back entirely to normal despite the glass that was broken there still lying in the middle of the street. And the big question being, who was this man that such great attention was paid to and such efforts were made to apprehend.

[14:05:01] Erin.

BURNETT: This is exactly true.

And I want to bring in Michael Holmes here.

And, Michael, as we were talking about, you know, that takedown, I guess operation is the right word, raid maybe not -

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes.

BURNETT: Because it doesn't - it didn't involve inside a house as far as we know.

HOLMES: Yes.

BURNETT: But happening right in a tram stop. Yes, in the neighborhood, middle class, very pleasant neighborhood, a neighborhood where they picked up those men a few days ago, at a tram stop in the middle of the day.

HOLMES: Yes.

BURNETT: And, by the way, within an hour or so, the trams are running again.

HOLMES: Oh, yes. Yes, it really sums up a 24-hour period of - I mean you've got - you've got to - you've got to say there's been an increased urgency over the last 24 hours to try to wrap up this cell, the remnants of it, and also to prevent any future attacks happens here in the very near future.

BURNETT: Right.

HOLMES: I was talking to a security expert earlier today who was saying that the chances of another attack in Europe imminently, in the near future, the very near future, are very high. There's a lot more of these guys out there that they don't know about, which is why you're seeing these raids and they're starting to link now. You saw the raids in Paris.

BURNETT: Right.

HOLMES: You saw the raids in Germany. The raid in Paris led to one of the raids that we saw here last night. So they are starting to put pieces together now, pictures of the puzzle.

BURNETT: They are. And, of course, there's still so many questions. They still don't know the names of everybody.

HOLMES: Yes.

BURNETT: They don't - you know, and in some - this, obviously, though, you know, sometimes has felt recently as if they are a little bit of some shots in dark -

HOLMES: Yes. BURNETT: Even when they got the man who had been on the run for four months that they think may have given the go signal for these attacks, it was in a sense luck.

HOLMES: Yes.

BURNETT: They went to an apartment. They thought someone else was there. He happened to be there.

But this operation today might have been different. I mean how did they know that this man was going to be at this tram stop at this moment? Now, we have the video of what happened right after he was shot, so we don't know everything leading up and police are being very tight lipped about it, but it could have been that they actually were tracking him.

HOLMES: Well, it could - and it could be -

BURNETT: With his cell phone or something like that.

HOLMES: Maybe - maybe the Belgians are finally starting to plug some of the security holes that they have in their intelligence and counterterrorism analysis and the information that they've been getting. Every time they get one of these guys, they're getting new information. They're getting forensic information. They're picking up notes. They're picking up cell phones, which lead them to someone else.

BURNETT: Right.

HOLMES: It was interesting, the one in France today that directly led to one of the raids here. So they're starting to piece it together. And every one of these raids bring some new information which leads them down the rabbit hole to another person.

BURNETT: Right.

HOLMES: So this is just going to keep going, this web. But at least it shows that perhaps the intelligence is happening. And you mentioned Secretary Kerry, who I know you spoke with, and hearing that today, I was listening to that, too, with the - with the prime minister, Charles Michel, and basically he - he admitted they dropped the ball and saying, we needed to cooperate more. And in saying that we need to cooperate more, he's admitting they're not cooperating enough. And why weren't they cooperating enough after what we saw in Paris and elsewhere?

BURNETT: Right, why weren't they when they knew there was a ticking time bomb, Brooke, which now has gone off once. And, of course, the big fear is whether something is imminent, especially as the net closes and something - they could have something horrific in the works.

Back to you.

BALDWIN: Especially with all these additional arrests, thus accelerating potential plots in progress. All excellent questions. Also can't wait to hear more from Secretary Kerry, your interview with him. So we'll be back to you momentarily.

But first, let me just bring in Chris Voss. He is a former international hostage negotiator for the FBI and the author of "Never Split the Difference," and CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. She is the author of "Security Mom."

So, welcome to both of you.

And, Chris, let me - let me put this first to you. We just got word - so apparently that eighth Paris attacker who was caught one week from today, Salah Abdeslam, he was interviewed for two hours by Belgium authorities. This would have been three days before Brussels happened. The interview, we're told, focused on the Paris attacks. Then there was a follow-up interview after Brussels happened and that's when he, you know, stopped talking to authorities. So that said, and you know how to negotiate and, you know, talk to folks who need cajoling, what do you make of that tick tock and the fact that they began with Paris?

CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, he talked for two hours and it's very difficult for him to say anything that's not going to be helpful to authorities. They probably got some information out of him. And as much as anything else, clearly it frightened his network as soon as the word was out that he was potentially talking. And they had to begin to move quickly because they knew that very soon law enforcement was going to be coming through the door. So this - this entire network right now is scrambling as quickly as they can and they're out of their planning phase and they're complete ad hoc and it looks like for now the law enforcement authorities are doing a good job chasing them to the ground.

BALDWIN: Well, on the scramble, Juliette, we know from intel sources that because of the Abdeslam arrest that the plot, which we saw carried out, I don't know to what effect we truly saw, you know, was accelerated and happened this past week. I'm wondering, with these additional arrests, I mean it's all - nine or so people, multiple countries, being arrested. Would that then step up potential plots in the works right now?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. There's no question about it. This is now, who can go faster. Can the arrest happen faster than it takes a group of these individuals to execute a plan? That's what's making the next couple of days very, very stressful.

[14:10:09] The arrests that occurred in the last 24 hours are significant because what people have to remember is these are suicide bombers. Success is death. And so failure is a disrupted attack. So what they're whole goal is, we just have to pick up the pace, go faster than maybe we intended, maybe not have as grand of attacks, if that's the right word, as we originally planned. But their goal is to execute. And so that's what makes the arrest very significant, but also the need to keep the pressure on because we're just in a very, very fluid time the next couple of days. BALDWIN: And on the arrest, so we were reporting this arrest in

Belgium. There were also raids in France. They found - French law enforcement found two kilograms of TATP, a Kalashnikov rifle, in the France raid. There have been arrests in Germany as well. So when we talk about, you know, the scope of this cell or web, Chris, what does that say to you? We're talking three countries at least all tied to Brussels.

VOSS: Right. Exactly. And it takes a tremendous web. It takes a tremendous network to support these kinds of attacks. It's not just the suicide bombers. It's the recruiters. It's the procurers. It's the logistics people. And all these people are in a scramble right now. And the vast majority of them are going to want to live to get away, which is one of the big advantages.

Suicide bombers are notoriously difficult to get to walk up all the way to the edge and pull the trigger. They have as much training keeping them on target psychologically as logistically. And fully a third of the people that were suicide bombers are still going to try to get away and live to fight another day. So it's very definitely a mad scramble going on right now.

BALDWIN: On the, you know, living to fight another day, we have, of course, now we've been showing the photo of the khaki jacketed man next to the two suicide bombers in that airport, a surveillance shot, Juliette. And apparently the U.S. says, based upon U.S. intelligence, they know who that man is, and they told Belgium. I'm curious if there's some sort of strategy behind Belgium not putting it out there for everybody, this is who this guy is, releasing his I.D. Why do you think they haven't yet?

KAYYEM: Well, because they want to capture him with as little, I think, public input as possible because that makes it dangerous. My - this is now based on my experience because, obviously, we don't know yet. The United States was probably able to identify him based on their intelligence, whether it's a no-fly or some other of the intelligence lists that we have designated the most serious terrorists, and they basically were probably able to do a match by photos. And we - and the authorities either know where he is or know where he might be, that they are confident that they'll be a capture relatively soon.

You remember, this is a very hard issue in the Boston Marathon case. There was a huge fight about whether the FBI would put the pictures out of the - of the Tsarnaev brothers. That was because they did not know the name of them. Now that we have the name of the guy in the hat, it makes it just that much easier. But this is - look if he is captured, that's great. The idea that this is the end of it, no way. I mean he's part - he's one piece of a much larger network.

BALDWIN: Someone else waiting in the wings. We'll talk more about this. Juliette Kayyem, thank you. Chris Voss, appreciate it very much.

VOSS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We do have more breaking news here. The number two within ISIS terror network has been killed by the United States in what appears to be a ground operation. It is someone they wanted alive. We have details on that.

Also ahead, the head of the New York Police Department will join me live on a lot of this, what's happened in Brussels, this new sort of generation of TATP bomb, and what New York and other American cities are doing to make sure this doesn't happen here.

Also ahead, a stunning moment, American parents reuniting with their son who survived his third brush with terror. We were there for that moment. You will hear the emotional interview with him in the hospital bed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASON WELLS, AMERICAN BRUSSELS BURN VICTIM: I was so lucky, being how close I was. And I saw a lot of people that were injured worse. I heard a lot of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[14:18:14] BURNETT: With all the breaking news and the raids going on in Brussels today and the desperate manhunt, the Pentagon announced this, U.S. forces have killed a high-ranking ISIS leader. A man many considered to be number two in the ISIS operation. He goes by several names like pretty much every ISIS operative. He's the so-called ISIS finance minister. So, responsible for paying recruits.

We are now learning that U.S. special forces actually tried to take him alive. He'd be much more valuable that way. But at the last minute, the plan had to change.

I want to bring in our Evan Perez.

And, Evan, obviously, things changed. They wanted to take him alive. He would have been so valuable to them for information. Why did the plans change at the last minute?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Erin, this began as a capture operation. Abd al-Rahman al-Qaduli is considered the finance minister, the number two leader of ISIS. And this happened a couple of days ago. U.S. forces had information on where he was hiding out and they launched this operation to try to bring him alive, hoping that - to get as much information and intelligence as possible. It appears that the operation didn't go as planned and al-Qaduli was killed.

Now, we don't know many details beyond that. al-Qaduli was believed to be behind some of the planning for ISIS' external operation. And Defense Secretary Ash Carter says that the U.S. also targeted another ISIS leader known as Abu Sara (ph). The U.S. has had a lot of success in the last few months targeting ISIS' finances and some of its weapons caches. And according to the Pentagon, they're trying to go after members of the group's cabinet, right?

BURNETT: All right, Evan, thank you very much.

And we are right now in the past 24 hours there have been nine arrests. Authorities here in Belgium - terror raids are really left and right at this point, just days after those deadly bombings in Brussels. They are still, of course, in a desperate manhunt for that man in the airport in the light colored jacket, as well as others that they believe, an accomplice from the metro. Critics say that until now Belgium law enforcement has been lax and now there are growing questions about Belgium's competence in counterterrorism.

[14:20:15] Ryan Heath is with me, senior E.U. correspondent for Politico.

Let me just - let me just start with the fact of what we're - is happening in these raids, to give everyone a sense of what's really at stake here because I think that at home sometimes you say, oh, well here's another raid. And sometimes the raids don't yield anything.

RYAN HEATH, SENIOR E.U. CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Yes.

BURNETT: But sometimes they yield something, maybe not a person. Last night, though, a raid near Paris, four and half pounds of TATP. That's what they believe was used in these bombs, including the one at the airport. Four and a half pounds of TATP, according to one expert doing his math. That could kill as many as 150 people. You - and that's just one apartment. Fifteen pounds were found in that apartment that those men vacated that morning on the way to the airport. They are still in this desperate race against time here.

HEATH: They are, absolutely. And what we need to start seeing in districts like Molenbeek, districts like Schaerbeek, is an increase in the number of house searches or potentially large buildings. What most people don't know about the chemicals and the other ingredients used to create these bombs is it requires a huge amount of space. You can't do this in a small little bathroom or a small little basement.

BURNETT: Right. No.

HEATH: You need a big space. Now we know Belgium has problems getting the warrants, conducting the raids 24/7 on thousands of houses. So let's go for some targeted approach in the middle, perhaps targeting the big spaces where these bombs are likely to have been made.

BURNETT: Right.

HEATH: That's the sort of step forward that we're needing to see.

BURNETT: And those could be big steps because, you know, just to recap some of the things you have been telling us, between 9:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. you are not allowed to raid a home here in Belgium. A law from the 1960s that you've talked about to protect privacy.

HEATH: Yes.

BURNETT: So they can't go in and raid people at night, which is obviously when you would find them when they are sleeping. You have also been doing some reporting. In terms of the attacks, that they were preventable. And not just preventable because they should have known these guys were on the Interpol list and they should have apprehended them and they should have taken a guy who Turkey says is a terrorist -

HEATH: Yes.

BURNETT: They didn't do that. Not on that. That very morning, they shut down the metro and they did it -

HEATH: Very late. They did it very late.

BURNETT: Yes.

HEATH: So, Erin, the first bomb went off in the airport just before 8:00 a.m. It took more than one hour for the metro system to be shut down. The order went out, the minister admitted in the Belgium parliament today at 9:04 a.m., more than an hour after the first bomb. The second bomb in the Maelbeek metro station, 9:11 a.m. So if we imagine that that order had gone out five, 10 or even 15 minutes earlier, just that small window of time, that would have been enough to shut down that network, get people out of those stations, potentially prevent that man from having entered that crowded space in the first place. So all of these are hypotheticals, obviously, said with the benefit of hindsight. But you have to wonder, why did it take so long to shut down the metro system when the other major piece of transport infrastructure had already been blown to pieces.

BURNETT: We're going to hear from Secretary John Kerry shortly in this show. I was with him this morning. But he had a joint press conference with the prime minister here of Belgium. And in that press conference, the prime minister said, we're doing the best we can to fight terrorism. That can't be true. They're not doing the best that they can.

HEATH: Yes. Well, let's take one more example. So this morning we learned in Mecklan (ph), a town just outside the borders of Brussels, the police chief had to admit that they knew about some movements and contact or suspected movements and contacts with Salah Abdeslam on December the 7th. Contacts that involved the address where he was found last Friday. So if that information had been passed on, passed to the place it was supposed to be in, the National Terrorism Database -

BURNETT: Months ago.

HEATH: Months ago, we could have had much clearer information about what he was planning to do. And even if that is not the case, the sort of thing that might now take place, that might be useful, is a comb of all of those local police stations to see who else might have failed to pass on this information. Retroactive checking of what else could have been missed. Not waiting for this to sort of come out into the open by accident as it did again this morning.

BURNETT: Right. Hopefully interviews of young men like we've spoken to, the brother of Salah Abdeslam. There's a lot of men in Syria - a man I talked to yesterday, a lot of men in Syria talking to those young men who are not going, who are fighting back and getting the names of every one of their friends. All those things we know that - assume that they are doing now.

Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: Yes, give it up, do the right thing. Erin Burnett, thank you so much. We'll check back with you in Brussels.

Coming up next, though, right here in New York, we will talk to the chief of the New York Police Department. How New York City is preparing for potential terror attacks here. We'll talk training, equipment, what they're looking out for. Do not miss that.

Also ahead, more breaking news. We are learning what the captured Paris attacker is saying now that he's been caught and who has been interrogating him.

[14:24:31] You're watching CNN's special live coverage. We'll right back.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Back to the breaking story out of Belgium. The Belgian government heavily criticized for key lapses in intelligence, terror preparedness. Critics claim Belgian leaders are losing the battle because they are not proactive enough. The country's prime minister actually admitted his government needs to do better, and that raises one very important question, how prepared is the U.S. for this same kind of spread or coordinated attack.

With me now, James O'Neill, the chief of department, New York Police.

So, chief, a pleasure and an honor to have you on here. I really appreciate you taking the time.

JAMES O'NEILL, CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT, NEW YORK POLICE: Hi, Brooke. It's great to be here.

BALDWIN: Let's first just begin with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. He came out today and he said Daesh, or ISIS, is on the run. And I'm wondering, you know, when you talk to folks who are on the front lines, law enforcement, who are saying and seeing that ISIS is nimble and adaptable and as long as there is this crazy ideology out there poisoning young, malleable people, that that's not going away. I'm just curious what you think of Secretary Kerry's comments.

[14:30:07] O'NEILL: I appreciate his comments. But this is something that we're highly tuned into. I've had this job since November of 2014