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Trump Manager Charged; Sanders Tone; Hijacked Egyptian Plane. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 29, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Happening with opioids, heroin. We know that 80 percent of new heroin users start off using pain pills. So, again, this is - this is a manmade thing. We can fix it.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And we'll have live coverage.

Sanjay, thanks very much for doing it.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. The news continues right now on CNN.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin on this Tuesday.

And just hours before the Republican candidates face voters during a CNN town hall, Donald Trump's campaign in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. His campaign manager turning himself in to police in Florida. He's charged with simple battery from an incident with a reporter earlier this month.

And I want to take you through some new surveillance video. If you haven't already seen it, take a look. In the highlighted circle, you can see report Michelle Fields in the yellow jacket. She's standing right next to Donald Trump, as you see. And then campaign manager Corey Lewandowski then appears to move closer to her and she appears to be pulled back with his hand firmly on her arm.

It's not so easy to see, but there's this too. Take a look. This is the photo that Miss Fields posted on Twitter showing bruises she allege came from that incident. A Trump campaign spokeswoman says Lewandowski is, quote, absolutely innocent and looks forward to being exonerated.

CNN political reporter Sara Murray joins me now with more on this.

So, Sara, you were at the event in question. How is candidate Trump himself responding?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I just want to walk you through first before we talk a little bit more about that event of how Donald Trump is handling all of this today. It should be no surprise that he is taking to Twitter to weigh in on this and his first tweet about it was, "wow, Corey Lewandowski, my campaign manager and a very decent man, was just charged with assaulting a reporter. Look at the tape - nothing there."

Obviously, Pam, you were just showing the video. You can see that Corey does appear to grab her, but apparently Trump in this tweet thinks that it's being overblown. He sent out another tweet saying, "why aren't people looking at this reporter's earliest statement as to what happened? That is before she found out the episode was on tape."

I've asked the campaign for a little bit more clarification about what he's referring to there because we do know that Michelle Fields tweeted those pictures of what she said were bruises from the incident and, of course, the police report refers to her reaction that was caught on audio where she seemed shocked that she was just grabbed and is talking about how hard she was grabbed. So we're waiting for the campaign to offer a little bit more clarification on what that second tweet might have been referring to, Pam.

BROWN: Right, because in that second tweet you showed, he sort of insinuated that she changed her story, right? Is there any indication of that?

MURRAY: So that's what we're trying to figure out, is what they might be referring to there. I mean she did sort of put this stuff out. In the beginning, the pictures of her bruises that would indicate that she had this run-in with Corey. When you look at the police report, in the audio she apparently says, you know, was that Corey? He grabbed - wow, he grabbed me really hard. So she did seem to know what was happening in the moment. We will see if the campaign for some reason believes she changed her story, what they might be referring to. And, of course, we'll bring you the latest if they get back to us on that.

BROWN: I know you will. Sara Murray, thank you so much for that.

And needless to say, this is not the headline that the Trump campaign had been hoping for, especially just one week before the next big contest in Wisconsin. So let's discuss all of this with CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, Arizona state chairman of the Trump campaign, Jeff DeWit, CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, and Matthew Continetti, editor of "The Washington Free Beacon."

Great to have you all with us.

Jeffrey, first to you. Just from a legal standpoint, Lewandowski has been charged with simple battery, right? How big of a deal is this legally?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a misdemeanor. And I think it's a bigger deal politically than it is legally. You know, the legal rule, Pamela, as I'm sure you know, is, you can't be hitting people. You can't be grabbing people. I mean this is not a complicated legal case. And, obviously, it's extremely unlikely that this would ever go to trial. There's usually some sort of pre-trial resolution of cases this minor. But it's certainly embarrassing. And the video - everybody can draw their own conclusions from what happened there, but it is yet another spectacle from the Trump campaign. BROWN: Right. And you sort of point out there, it's already getting

political. And it is a big deal politically. And we've heard it from the campaigns already, Maeve Reston, with Ted Cruz coming out just a short time ago. Let's talk a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a very sad development. And this is the consequence of the culture of the Trump campaign. The abusive culture when you have a campaign that is built on personal insults, on attacks and now physical violence. That has no place in a political campaign. It has no place in our democracy. And I think it is a really unfortunate development. But I do think it helps clarify for the voters what the Trump campaign is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:17] BROWN: All right, Jeff DeWit, I'm going to get to you in just a second to get the Trump side of all of this, but I wanted to first look at the big picture of the other responses from campaigns from Maeve. What else have they said, Maeve?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, John Kasich's campaign also came out and, you know, said something similar, that this was not the kind of response or the kind of action that any presidential campaign should be taking. That it reflects the culture at the top. And that is why this is really such a big story. As Jeff just said, you know, this is a misdemeanor. It's very unusual that you would have a campaign manager involved in this kind of alleged altercation with a reporter. But this is a big deal because it builds into this larger narrative around Trump, that there is violence at his rallies, that he's encouraged it with certain statements saying that he'd pay for legal bills.

And it's so interesting because Trump's instincts here has been to defend Corey Lewandowski over and over again, to question the reporter's story, and standing by Corey Lewandowski in this when most crisis managers would just tell you, you know, just fire your campaign manager and move on. It's going to be a really interesting thing to watch. It shows us a lot about Trump's leadership style and the way that he would govern. And I think voters will be looking at this in the broader sense in that way. And, obviously, Corey will, you know, deal with this in court and as a legal matter.

BROWN: And it really goes to what we've seen the Trump campaign, to sort of not back down, not apologize.

And, Jeff DeWit, on that note, your boss, Donald Trump, says, look at the video, nothing happened. Do you agree when you look at that video?

JEFF DEWIT, ARIZONA CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, yes, when you look at Michelle Fields, her initial statement, and that's what was being referred to earlier, her initial statement was that Corey tried to yank her to the ground. And i don't think you see anywhere in that video where anyone's trying to be yanked to the ground. And I think what's being left out here, there is a picture that you can find online that is taken from the front right before this happened. And you will see Michelle Fields - you know, Donald Trump is walking by, trying to exit the building. She lunges into his private space to try to stop him to ask a question and she has a circular object - I don't know if it's a highlighter or something weird, but it looks syringe like -

BROWN: She had a phone in her hand.

DEWIT: In her hand - that she - yes, she's touching to Donald Trump. When you lunge out of a crowd towards a leading presidential candidate who has Secret Service protection and you touch him with an object, I think it's safe to say that you might get your arm grabbed. And so (INAUDIBLE) --

BROWN: Jeff Toobin, you're raising your eyebrows.

RESTON: Pam, can I just say something as a reporter -

DEWIT: (INAUDIBLE) Secret Service agent.

BROWN: Yes, Maeve, jump in. I think a lot of us have -

RESTON: In that kind of - in that kind of situation, that is the reason that Secret Service is there. That is their job, to see if there's any kind of threat to the candidate. And Secret Service agents, you know, having dealt with them in multiple campaigns, generally have been well-trained, well-disciplined on how to hold reporters back. You know, usually by kind of putting their arm in front of them. And it's the Secret Service that you would expect to step in if there was a threat to the candidate. That's why this is so unusual. It's not like there wasn't a Secret Service agent there.

But, obviously, this campaign feels that, you know, they've been under attack and they have a very different way of dealing with reporters than most presidential campaigns.

BROWN: Right, you see what appears to be a Secret Service agent on her left.

DEWIT: That's not how the campaign deals (ph) at all.

BROWN: Go ahead, Jeff, and then I want to get to Jeffrey Toobin after that because I see him raising his eyebrows.

Jeff DeWit.

DEWIT: Well, there's a misstatement. A lot of misstatements. Oh, this is the campaign or this in general. You know, keep in mind, the Secret Service protection is only a few months old. And before that, Corey was what's called in politics the body man. I have a body man. He's - he's actually over here with me right now. Where we - we as candidates will travel with somebody who needs to protect us in case there are crazies. And Corey was also serving as a body man before. So he's been in a protective role before Secret Service.

But she's lunging out from a crowd towards a leading presidential candidate with something in her hand and that keeps getting forgotten. And all it was, was somebody might have grabbed her arm to see what was in her hand and now she says, oh, I was almost forcibly yanked to the ground. Remember, she was served with a cease and desist and let go by her former employer for this very incident. So even her former employer, another media outlet, did not believe her.

BROWN: OK, so, Jeffrey Toobin, Lewandowski, would this be a defense for him to be exonerated from the charges, exactly what Jeff DeWit laid out?

TOOBIN: Well, if it's true that he's protecting Donald Trump from a vicious assault from a reporter from Breitbart, which seems extremely unlikely, that would be a defense. But, look, you know, there's sort of - let's step back. There are two ways this could be approached. One is to say, look, you know, this was a misunderstanding. We hope everybody's feelings aren't hurt. Let's move on. Or the Trump campaign appears to want to turn this into the O.J. case, and we can view - you know, maybe we can get DNA tests and - you know, I mean it just seems like this is a classic example of a combative response as opposed to a conciliatory response, and that is, I think, indicative of the campaign where this originated.

[14:10:30] BROWN: And, Matthew Continetti, I want to bring you in. We don't want to leave you out here because I'm sure you have some thoughts to share on this.

MATTHEW CONTINETTI, EDITOR IN CHIEF, WASHINGTON FREE BEACON: Thank you. I do.

BROWN: We heard from the Cruz campaign saying that this is reflective of an abusive culture within the Trump campaign. Do you think that's fair?

CONTINETTI: I mean that's - Ted Cruz has a primary to win. Donald Trump has a primary to win. Let's not forget about that. He still - he hasn't reached the magic number of 1,237. And the problem for him that this Michelle Fields scandal represents is that it feeds into the idea that Donald Trump's campaign is a circus. And I think we've just started seeing that in the last few weeks because, remember, the previous controversy we were arguing over before this latest news broke was the fight between Trump and the Cruz camps over who insulted whose wife first. That's a circus. And Republican voters, especially the ones in Wisconsin who have that kind of Midwestern nice sensibility, they're going to blanche at it. And so I think this is a political problem for Donald Trump. You know, forget about the criminal issues involved, it's a political problem. He has to get to 1,237 delegates or else he's going to face a contested convention where his nomination is not guaranteed.

BROWN: Well, no doubt about it, the primary in Wisconsin is a big deal.

RESTON: And there are donors -

BROWN: Go ahead, Maeve. RESTON: I'm sorry, I was just going to say that there are donors who

feel that this particular storyline is their most effective path against Donald Trump. You know, you remember that when there was violence at his rally in Chicago, one of the anti-trump groups put out an ad around that. They definitely want to create this kind of narrative and get those people in the Midwest thinking about it in Wisconsin. So this is definitely not something that's going to go away. This is going to be with us for some time during this campaign.

BROWN: Jeffrey Toobin.

TOOBIN: If I could just one - make one point about the political side of it. How many times in this campaign have we said, oh, this controversy, this thing he said about John McCain or Megyn Kelly, this is really bad? And every time one of these controversies has come up, Trump's popularity has gone up. I don't see any reason why this one is any different, especially since it's a relatively minor side show, not even involving Trump himself.

BROWN: Let me just ask you this quickly -

CONTINETTI: No, I think just -

BROWN: Go ahead, Matthew.

CONTINETTI: Just to respond to Jeff really quickly. I think there is - a tipping point has been reached. Normally I would agree completely with Jeff. But I think something happened with the fight over Heidi Cruz and Melania Trump that if I - look, I know a lot of Republicans and the Republicans that I know are saying, what happened here? And so here we just feed into another news cycle where Donald Trump's campaign is extremely combative. You have accusations of violence. You have accusations of harsh actions and language toward women. Eventually, it catches up with you. And I think - I think we may be starting to see it now.

BROWN: And no doubt about it, this will all be addressed tonight in the CNN town hall.

Jeffrey Toobin, Jeff DeWit, Maeve, Matthew, thank you for that lively discussion. We really appreciate it.

And as mentioned, that town hall with the final three Republican candidates will be live from Milwaukee tonight, moderated by Anderson Cooper. It starts at 8:00 Eastern only on CNN.

And just ahead, a group of women explain why they're supporting Donald Trump and whether his comments and this behavior impacts their vote.

Plus, Hillary Clinton's campaign says if Bernie Sanders wants to debate, he'd better change his tone. The Sanders campaign reacts to this, up next.

And a man hijacks a passenger jet, says he has explosives. Hear how he did it. And new video showing what happened moments before he boarded that flight. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:04] BROWN: Bernie Sanders' supporters have a new really call to taunt rival Hillary Clinton and they're doing it on Twitter with #tonedownforwhat. It's a trending topic after a Clinton campaign official told CNN Sanders needs to change his tone if he wants to debate her before the New York primary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL BENENSON, CHIEF STRATEGIST, CNN CAMPAIGN: But Senator Sanders doesn't get to decide when we debate, particularly when he's running a very negative campaign against us. Let's see if he goes back to the kind of tone he said he was going to set early on. If he does that, then we'll talk about debates. But we're not going to talk about it.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So no chance of a New York debate?

BENENSON: I didn't say that. I said we're not going to talk about it. We're going to see what kind of tone he sets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so let's talk about this with Sanders' senior advisor, Tad Devine.

Tad, thanks so much for coming on. Obviously I want you to respond to that. Bernie Sanders has challenged Clinton to this debate in New York. The Clinton campaign, as we heard, has said that they won't until your guy changes his tone because the Sanders campaign has gone to negative. Is that fair?

TAD DEVINE, SENIOR MEDIA ADVISER, BERNIE 2016: No, it's not. When Hillary Clinton was trailing in New Hampshire, after almost losing Iowa, she decided she needed to debate New Hampshire and Bernie said, fine, we'll have the debate in New Hampshire, where he was well ahead. But let's agree to three more debates before the end of the process. Bernie has - believes in debates. We thought there should have been many more earlier as well.

The Clinton campaign, at that time, agreed to have debates in March. We had one in Michigan. They wanted to have it after the Michigan primary, by the way. We persuaded them, no, we should have the Michigan debate before the primary. We did so. We'd have another in April. We'll have another in May. And we think we should have a debate in New York. It's the biggest state. It's Hillary Clinton's home state. She represented it in the United States Senate.

So we think we should have the debate in New York. They previously agreed to have these debates. And now they're trying to have new conditions in saying we should change the tone of the campaign, whatever that means. I mean, listen, if they want to see bad tone, just take a look at the Republican, you know, campaign. I mean if this was going on, on the Democratic side, I could actually understand what they were talking about.

[14:20:00] BROWN: But just to look at their side, I mean the Clinton camp has said that the Sanders campaign has spent millions of dollars on attack ads and they had this recent statement over the weekend asking for this debate and they - the Clinton camp says that's a publicity stunt. All of this after Sanders has vowed not to be negative. I mean do you think the campaign's tone has changed at all since the beginning when Sanders made that vow?

DEVINE: No, I don't. We've spent millions of dollars on ads, it's true. There is yet to be an ad that we've broadcast on television that has mentioned Hillary Clinton's name. So I don't really know what she's talking about.

Listen, they've had ads about Bernie Sanders which we totally disagree with. In Michigan they said that he voted against the bailout of the auto industry. They made an ad that they put on immediately after alleging that in the debate. It was untruthful. It just wasn't - it was wrong. But they put it on anyway.

And so, sure, we have talked about differences on issues like fracking, where Bernie says we should stop it. He believes climate change is real. It's urgent that we do something about it. He opposes fracking. We have ads that talk about differences on trade, on differences on issues like that. But our campaign, particularly the advertising campaign, which I'm in the middle of, by the way, so I know something about, has been an incredibly positive campaign, talking about Bernie Sanders, his experience and his vision for America's future. So for them to characterize it that way is just simply not true.

BROWN: OK, so you guys are saying that you're trying to convince super delegates to switch sides now. What is going on behind the scenes to sort of jump start that process?

DEVINE: Well, we're reaching out to super delegates. You know, there's still a couple hundred super delegates that haven't picked a candidate yet. Hillary Clinton has a substantial lead with the super delegates. But hundreds haven't picked sides yet. We're reaching out to them. We're talking to them. We're finding, by the way, then states like the states we went through last weekend and in other places where Bernie has done very well, that many of the super delegates are now saying, listen, I've heard from the people in my state -

BROWN: Let me just, really quickly -

DEVINE: And I - and I want to support Bernie.

BROWN: Let me just ask you though, Tad, because earlier today on CNN, Maria Cardona was on our air. She's a CNN contributor, as well as a super delegate, who is in favor of Hillary Clinton, but she was saying that Sanders' supporters have been reaching out, sometimes saying nasty things about Clinton in this bid to have super delegates switch over. Is that true?

DEVINE: Well, I don't know if it's true, but I will tell you this, that we certainly do not encourage that. You know, any outreach to people, our party leaders and elected officials, from anyone certainly in our campaign, and that's the only thing we can control. We can't control what every supporter says and does. But the people in our campaign, we want them to reach out to super delegates in the most positive and affirmative way. What we're asking super delegates to do, and we're going to ask more of them to do this later once this process is over, is to do the right thing, to support the strongest candidate who can represent our party in the general election. And all of the data right now, if you look at all of the polls of Bernie versus Trump or the other Republicans shows that he is the strongest Democrat. That's the argument we'll make to super delegates.

BROWN: All right, we want to talk about Susan Sarandon because she says she doesn't think she can vote for Hillary Clinton if she's the nominee. She said this in a recent interview with NBC. Let's take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS, POLITICAL ACTIVIST, SANDERS' SUPPORTER: But I think a lot of people are sorry, I just can't bring myself to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about you personally?

SARANDON: I don't know. I'm going to see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?

SARANDON: Really.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I - I cannot believe it, as you're watching the (INAUDIBLE). Donald Trump has -

SARANDON: Well, you know, some people feel Donald Trump will be the revolution immediately. If he gets in, then things will really, you know, explode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you're saying the Leninist (ph) model of fighting the contradictions.

SARANDON: Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Some people feel that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's - don't you think that's dangerous?

SARANDON: I think that what's going on now, if you think that it's pragmatic to shore up the status quo right now, then you're not in touch with the status quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so, Tad, I've got to ask you a similar question, if Clinton is the nominee, would you vote for her in November?

DEVINE: What, me personally?

BROWN: Yes. DEVINE: Yes, of course I would. You know, and, listen, Bernie Sanders, let me just speak on his behalf because, you know, he is someone who respects and admires Hillary Clinton, her service and her leadership. So - and the differences between the two of them pale in comparison to the difference between Republicans. But, listen, you know, what Susan said, I mean, you know, she's got every right to her view. She's been a great leader and she's been a fabulous surrogate, I will tell you, for our campaign. I heard her in Mason City, Iowa, one night and the introduction she gave to Bernie Sanders literally brought tears to my eyes. So she's someone who feels passionately about this issue and has every right to express those views on her behalf.

BROWN: All right, Tad Devine, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

DEVINE: Thank you.

BROWN: And up next on this Tuesday, high anxiety as a commercial jet is hijacked. The plane forced to land in another country. Hostages seen escaping through the cockpit windows. And now serious security questions are emerging as we learn more about the hijacker's motive.

[14:24:37] And just moments ago, the first Republican senator to break ranks with his party meeting with Obama's pick for the Supreme Court. We'll have a live report. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And new information on the hijacker who seized an airliner, terrorizing passengers with a fake explosive belt, all before surrendering to authorities. This is one of the last hostages, watch this, escaping through a cockpit window and then scaling down the side of an airplane. Can you imagine how horrifying that was? And then minutes later, the hijacker surrendered. That's reportedly him in white right there.

This surveillance video showing the suspected hijacker going through security at the airport in Alexandria, Egypt, even getting a patdown before boarding the flight that he hijacked.

Let's go live now to CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest.

Richard, officials are saying this is not terror related. That this was motivated by issues that the hijacker was having with his ex-wife. But at the end of the day, Richard, this guy commandeered a plane. And when it comes to questions about security, how is this any different to terror?

[14:30:06] RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it's very different in the sense that an organized terror campaign versus, if you like, those who are mentally disturbed.