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Sanders and Clinton Campaigns Argue over Possible Future Debate Dates; Possibility of Contested Republican Presidential Convention Examined; Ted Cruz Speaks at GOP Convention in North Dakota; Businessman States Women Run Businesses More Profitable. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 02, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:08] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield live in Houston, home of the NCAA Final Four. We have much more on the big night in sports, but first let's talk about politics. You're going to hear a little sound check, though, behind me for the big warm-up festive event out here, tailgate party before the big dance tonight.

All right, so politics. The Democratic battle for Wisconsin is heating up and it's getting personal. Senator Bernie Sanders is in Wisconsin this hour holding a town meeting in Eau-Claire. Today the Sanders and Clinton campaigns feuding over a debate, or proposed debate. The Clinton campaign accusing the Sanders campaign of rejecting three New York debates that the Clinton campaign proposed. Clinton's press secretary Brian Fallon saying this, quote, "The Sanders campaign needs to stop with the games. Over the course of the last week we have offered three specific dates for a debate in New York, all of which the Sanders campaign rejected," end quote.

Let's talk more about this with our panel, CNN's Chris Frates is with us, and he's with the Sanders campaign Eau-Claire, Wisconsin. Brian Stelter is CNN's senior media consultant and host of "Reliable Sources." So Chris, let me begin with you. Did Bernie Sanders talk about this at the rally? He did make a big mention of telling the truth. Was that an inference to something in particular?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he does make that reference quite a bit, Fredricka. And we've not heard Bernie Sanders talk about the debate so far, but as you can see behind me, he is still speaking.

But we did get a statement from the spokesman, Michael Briggs. I want to read that to you, this from spokesman Michael Briggs. "Unfortunately the dates and venues she has proposed don't make a lot of sense. The idea that they want to debate in New York on a night of the NCAA finals with Syracuse in the tournament, no less, is ludicrous. We have proposed other dates, which they have rejected. We hope we can reach agreement in the near future."

So that's a statement that we have out today, Fredricka. And we've got to remember a little t about how this started. You know, Sanders, remember, had a big win in Wisconsin -- excuse me, a big win in Alaska and Hawaii and Washington. He then called on Hillary Clinton to debate him in New York. She was non-committal about that for about a week or so. Then yesterday her campaigns say they were working on those dates. And today Hillary Clinton's campaign coming out and slamming the Sanders folks, saying they're playing games with the dates. The Sanders folks responding in kind.

And it's important to remember why New York is so important. A lot of people believe that Bernie Sanders is going to win here on Tuesday, in Wisconsin. New York has 250 delegates Democrat at stake. That's second only to California. Bernie Sanders needs to upset Hillary Clinton in her adopted home state there if he can continue and catch her in delegates because, remember, he's trailing her by 240 delegates. So very important to see when this debate is, where it is, because it's going to play a big le in this New York primary on April 19th, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Oh, yes. This is getting very tense. So, Brian, now there's talk about potentially a morning show debate between the two? How realistic is that?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: We haven't seen anything like this during this election cycle. All the debates have been in primetime. But one of the dates that's been proposed is April 15th, a morning show debate on "Good Morning America." The idea here is it will be an alternative to debating in primetime. It may be more hospitable terrain for Hillary Clinton. We could debate that issue.

But clearly here the Clinton campaign is trying to take something they've been on the defensive about, which is this perception that they don't want to debate, and they're trying to go on the offensive today, challenging the Sanders campaign, putting them up against the ropes instead of the other way around.

I've just spoken with two Clinton aides who say they don't know what the other daters are that have been proposed by the Sanders campaign. They claim they're in the dark about that. I do wonder if this will be resolved, though, in the hours to come. I know ABC, which wants to have this "Good Morning America" debate, remains confident that something will happen if not on April 15th then on another day. So we'll see about that in the coming hours. But this goes to show that even arguing over the rules of the debates or the dates of the debates, that these two campaigns are not seeing eye-to-eye.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, a morning show debate. That is one heck of a wakeup call for everybody. Brian Stelter, Chris Frates, thanks so much, gentlemen.

(LAUGHTER)

STELTER: Thanks.

FRATES: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much.

We expect Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz to take the stage at any moment now in Fargo, North Dakota. You see Carly Fiorina stumping on his behalf. How might he do in this GOP convention in North Dakota?

[14:05:03] Let's bring in CNN correspondent Phil Mattingly, joining us there. Quite the ruckus crowd there. And this really is potentially a very important move for any Republican candidate in the race to the White House. So why would two out of three be there?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Fredricka, look, the Cruz campaign is in the midst of a full-court press obviously starting with Carly Fiorina. Ted Cruz is supposed to be up in a couple minutes, and his ground game working very closely around the convention floor right now, and the reason is delegates. Obviously 1,237 is the number every Republican candidate is shooting for. That would give them the Republican nomination.

But as we get further along in this primary and caucus process, it's become very clear that nobody will get there, at least it's going to be very, very close. That makes the delegates here, 25 still need to be selected, another three total, so 28 total will be extraordinarily valuable. Here's why. They are not bound to any specific candidate. That's why you see Cruz's team working so hard on the floor right now, lobbying people, trying to get their delegates elected tomorrow when they have that the process here.

And why that matters is this -- when they get to Cleveland, those delegates, even though it's only 28 total, may actually help decide who becomes the nominee. If Donald Trump is, say, 20 delegates short or 18 short of the 1,237 number, North Dakota might actually be who pushes him over the edge, or if Cruz keeps them, keeps him from that.

It's why you've seen, Fredricka, one of the most interesting elements of this whole weekend, there are actually hospitality suites being run by all three campaign to try to wine and dine potential delegates. North Dakota at the center of the political universe even though the Wisconsin primary is just a couple days away. It's really underscoring that these fights that are going on state-by-state just for delegates have become the most important element of this campaign up to this point, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Phil, really exciting, and maybe a little bit of an insight into what the RNC convention just might look and feel like this summer. All right, Phil, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

All right, after the break, Donald Trump making a final push in Wisconsin ahead of Tuesday's primary. The billionaire has been making his case to voters in that state. We're live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:10:48] WHITFIELD: All right, the GOP convention under way right now, and Ted Cruz is hoping to do well in Wisconsin two days from now. But right now he's stumping for support there in North Dakota. Let's listen.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But the real question is, do you understand the principles and values that made America great in the first place? The heart of our economy is not Washington, D.C. The heart of our economy is small businesses all across the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: If I'm elected president, we will repeal every word of Obamacare.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: We'll pass common sense health care reform that makes health insurance personal and portable and affordable, and keeps government from getting in between us and our doctors.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And we will pass a simple flat tax where every American can fill out our taxes on a postcard.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And when we do that, we should abolish the IRS.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: We're going to rein in the EPA.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And the federal regulators who have descended like locusts on farmers and ranchers and small businesses, killing jobs all across this country.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: To the farmers and ranchers here, I represent Texas, a great agricultural state, and as president, I will rescind the Waters of the United States rule.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And we will repeal the death tax.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: You know, I'm reminded of a few years back. I was out in west Texas. And I asked some folks there, I said, what's the difference between regulators and locusts? I said, well, the thing is, you can't use pesticide on the regulators.

(LAUGHTER)

CRUZ: And this old west taxes farmer, he leaned back, said, "Want to bet?"

(LAUGHTER)

CRUZ: And let me talk to everyone here in the oil and gas industry. I'm a Texan. We know something about that. North Dakota has risen as a powerful energy haven, and we are going to keep the federal government the heck out of the way and develop our resources here in the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

WHITFIELD: All right, Ted Cruz there in North Dakota at the GOP convention just ahead of the Wisconsin primaries, where according to polling there, Ted Cruz so far seeming to potentially best Donald Trump.

Meantime, in a late-night plea, the Republican frontrunner Donald Trump's campaign, told supporters that Tennessee's Republican Party was trying to, quote, "steal his delegates."

[14:15:03] Let's bring in Matt Lewis, a CNN political commentator and a senior contributor to "The Daily Caller." All right, Matt, here is the tweet saying this -- "Attention Tennessee. We want the votes. They're trying to steal them. The Tennessee Republican Party wants to steal your vote today." So Matt, this is on the heels of Donald Trump saying that Louisiana stole some votes from him because his delegate count was much lower than Ted Cruz even though he won that state. So what's going on with the Donald Trump campaign now saying that he is being cheated?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So what happened -- this is a sign, this is a clear sign that we are, you know, very likely now headed to a contested convention. If you -- you know, if it's not a close race, none of this matters. We're fighting over a handful of delegates here.

Basically this goes back to the March 1st primary in Tennessee where Trump got about 40 percent of the vote, and's he garnered more than 50 percent of the delegates. Some of the delegates were bound, so Trump got 33 delegates on March 1st, Cruz got 16 delegates, Rubio got nine delegates. There were 14 at-large delegates that the state GOP gets to assign who those delegates are. Trump argues that he was promised half of them, at least seven of those delegates, that because he got 50 percent of the delegates assigned on March 1st, he should get 50 percent of those at-large delegates.

The Republican Party had a meeting today. There were protestors there. It's unclear whether or not they're, quote, "trying to steal it from him," or whether they're trying to reward Republican activists and give them these positions. But either way, it's a very bitter fight over a handful of delegates, and that tells you how close this thing could come down to being at the convention in Cleveland.

WHITFIELD: And so, Matt, translation for the voters. Does this, you know, fire them up? Or does this turn them off as it pertains to Donald Trump?

LEWIS: Well, I think this is inside baseball. I'm guessing a lot of Americans aren't going to pay too close attention to the Tennessee Republican Party's kind of byzantine back -- smoke-filled backroom dealing over 14 potential delegates, which, by the way, my understanding is they wouldn't even be released to oppose Donald Trump until the third ballot at a convention anyway. So this is really inside baseball.

I don't think regular voters are going to care much about this, but I think if you're a Donald Trump supporter, this fires you up. This looks like the election is being stolen from him. These are the rules, by the way. This stuff happens all the time. Remember, Barack Obama lost the state of Texas to Hillary Clinton in 2008. But -- I'm sorry. Barack Obama won the Texas primary in 2008, but Hillary Clinton -- I'm sorry. Obama got more delegates. Hillary won it. The same thing happened with Ron Paul versus Mitt Romney. There were states that Mitt Romney won the primary but Ron Paul got more delegates.

So these things happens all the time. The difference this time is because it looks like it's going to come down to a contested convention every single vote counts. And because Donald Trump is not a standard politicians and does not have a team that is equipped to sort of battle for these delegates, they're being outmaneuvered by Ted Cruz and others. So it looks very, very ugly if you're a Donald Trump supporter.

WHITFIELD: Right. And the districts matter in terms of the delegates counts in those states. All right, thank you so much, Matt Lewis, appreciate that.

Of course, we're going to continue to monitor the event taking place right there. Donald Trump in Wisconsin. We're going to take a short break for now. We're live from Houston, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:59] WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Just in time for a nice sound check here behind me for the fans tailgate party that will take place here at NRG stadium here in Houston.

All right, meantime, with eyes on the 2016 election and a serious chance for the first time a woman could lead the White House, women as world leaders are taking center stage more than ever. Kevin O'Leary, also known at "Mr. Wonderful" from the show "Shark Tank" says that lately women are actually better at running companies than their male counterparts, telling CNN that all of his returns are coming from companies either owned or run by women.

Poppy Harlow spoke with O'Leary and she's joining me right now from New York. Good to see you, and happy Final Four. All right, I know this was very fun talking to Mr. Wonderful, who's very serious about business in so many ways.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is. First of all, Fredricka, you look like you're having far too much fun down there. I think we're all jealous. Have a great time. What an assignment.

But, look, I expected Mr. Wonderful to be in person just like he is on TV, very sort of rough around the edges and harsh. And we discovered a completely different side of him, which you'll see on the show tonight. But, yes, he told me that of all the companies he's invested in, we're talking about companies with between $500 million and $300 million annually in sales, that the only ones that are making any money right now are the ones run by women. So then I pressed on, has he always looked at things this way? Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Do you think you've always been fair to women in business? Before this light went off in your head, when you look back, Kevin, at your career, did you maybe not give some women the shot they deserved?

KEVIN O'LEARY, "MR. WONDERFUL" ON ABC'S "SHARK TANK": It's a fair question, and you're right. Years ago when I would take, put risk capital out, particularly in my venture portfolio, I tended to do what the industry has done -- favor men just because those were the ones that were getting funded.

[14:25:00] That is not what I do today. My results are basically black and white. They are telling me that in America today, we are not using enough women in management. There is no question about that.

HARLOW: So why are we paid less?

O'LEARY: That is basically a legacy issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So how do we turn it around? He tells us tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern. And Fredricka, two main things he said. He said women are better at running companies these days. They take less risk. They set more reasonable goals. A lot more from Mr. Wonderful tonight 7:00 p.m. eastern on the show. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, we look forward to hearing that. Thank you so much, Poppy Harlow. Of course, we'll be watching you in the Newsroom at 3:00 as well.

All right, meantime, right around the corner just minutes from now, you stay seated, because we've got much more here from NRG Stadium. All access, the Final Four, starts right after this. We're taking you inside with the players of these four incredible teams tipping off tonight.

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