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Democrats Race Heats Up in New York; One-on-One with Ted Cruz; Trump Beefs Up Role of Veteran Strategist. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired April 08, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:03] CAMEROTA: My goodness, what an emotional story.
PEREIRA: Powerful.
COOPER: Incredible.
CUOMO: That's why we tell them to you.
CAMEROTA: Wow.
CUOMO: From all of us, happy Friday. It is now time for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Ah, the best day of the week. Happy Friday to all of you. Have a great weekend.
NEWSROOM starts now.
And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Tensions way up between Democratic candidates over who is and who is not qualified to run for president. But both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are trying to tone things down today. Sanders, ripping a page out of Clinton's playbook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's kind of a silly statement, but he's free to say whatever he chooses.
MATT LAUER, NBC ANCHOR: Is he qualified to be president?
CLINTON: Well, here's what I believe. I believe that voters will be looking at both of us, but I will take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz any time. They pose real threats.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here's the truth. I've known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I respect Hillary Clinton. We were colleagues in the Senate. And on her worst day, she will be -- she would be an infinitely better president than either of the Republican candidates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All of this as party leaders worry a war of words over candidate qualifications is sinking the race to new lows.
CNN's Phil Mattingly has more on this, this morning. Good morning.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. There's no question at all the Democratic race is headed in a new direction. A different direction. And as you noted, one that has made Democratic operatives very uncomfortable. The question about qualifications, one that Bernie Sanders has raised in multiple rallies, still riling people. But Hillary Clinton still not willing to take the bait. Take a listen to her interview on NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I never said that about him.
LAUER: I know. I'm asking.
CLINTON: I know. I never said that about him. His response to me was a misrepresentation of what I've said, but also kind of a historic amnesia because on all of those issues he supported President Obama, he supported Joe Biden as our vice presidential candidate. He supported John Kerry when he ran, and each one of them has, according to him, not been qualified, but I think in the heat of the campaign people say lots of things. I want to stay focused on the issues. There are contrasts between us and I think that's fair game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: So Hillary Clinton, Carol, obviously taking great pains not to engage on this issue for a second consecutive day, and Bernie Sanders starting to ratchet back his rhetoric a little bit saying in an interview on the "Today" show that of course Hillary Clinton is qualified, but also noting that the campaign will fight back if attacked. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUER: This is something your campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said, caused a bit of a stir when he said, don't destroy -- talking to Clinton supporters, don't destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary's ambitions to become president of the United States. Do you agree with that comment?
SANDERS: I can see we're off to the gossip world. OK.
LAUER: No, no. This is what your campaign manager said.
SANDERS: Yes, I know, but is that an issue the people are staying up nights worrying about? What people are worried about is how we're going to have decent paying jobs. Jeff is doing a great job. We started at 3 percent in the polls. Last two out of three polls have us in the lead. I think what simply Jeff is trying to say here is let's not run a negative campaign. Let's run a campaign which deals with the real issues impacting the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: And Carol, that is an answer that is a good spin off of what has been a kind of series of personal attacks in the last --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: I'm still trying to figure out -- did he answer the question? I don't think so.
MATTINGLY: That also, Carol, is one of the things that's most frustrating to the Clinton campaign. Bernie Sanders' campaign aides will go out and absolutely spar back and forth not just with Hillary Clinton but with Hillary Clinton's team, then Bernie Sanders will come out and say he's above it all, and these are dirty politics and he doesn't engage in them, and then mentions lobbyist money or speeches or things of that nature. So we've seen this go back and forth.
While there has been a slight de-escalation, I don't think the tone is going to change much in the future. This is a very important primary on April 9th in New York -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And we have a debate coming up, too. Don't we? Yes, we do.
Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.
OK. So let's break it down with our panel this morning. I'm joined by Bronx borough president and Hillary Clinton supporter, Ruben Diaz, Jr. Along with CNN political commentator Sally Kohn, and CNN political analyst and "Daily Beast" editor-in-chief John Avlon.
Welcome to all of you.
RUBEN DIAZ JR., BRONX BOROUGH PRESIDENT: Good to be here. Thank you.
SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello.
DIAZ: Thank you.
JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: OK. OK. I want to start with a little poli-sci lesson right off the top, John Avlon. Why is it so damaging to the Democrats to attack one another? And why is it so damaging for Republicans to attack one another?
AVLON: Well, look, I mean, the Republicans are in the middle of a deep civil war in which even themselves don't really like their candidates. Both Hillary -- both Ted Cruz and Donald Trump have disapproval ratings higher than 40 percent inside their own party. But the Democrats need to be careful about incubating a left-wing Tea Party. And what I mean by that is candidates who put ideological purity first. Good, solid policy disagreements are important in any Democratic process. Bernie Sanders has brought a lot to the debate in that regard.
[09:05:04] But when he starts sliding into calling Hillary Clinton -- unqualified, a secretary of state and two-term senator, that's when things start to get ugly, they start to get meaninglessly -- you know, meaninglessly divisive and make it more difficult to unite the party for a general election.
COSTELLO: OK. So the poli-sci lesson is out of the way. So let's get right down to it, shall we?
So, Sally, I'll start with you. Did Sanders start this or did Clinton, or does it matter? And why do we care?
KOHN: Well, look, I mean, on some level, of course, it probably doesn't. It's a game of cat and mouse. But technically, he did start it, and you know, he started it maybe based on this misrepresentation, but it's on them to check the facts, one outlet reporting that Hillary Clinton had called him unqualified isn't really enough to sort of go strongly negative.
What's more important is when you do it. I mean, I wish he hadn't done it in the first place and I think you know I lean towards Senator Sanders but this has really given me some serious pause. He shouldn't have done that in the first place. I think he needs to walk it back much more aggressively and clearly than he has. An apology would be nice.
The Republicans seem to think apologies are weakness. But I think the majority of Americans and certainly Democrats like you to take responsibility when you've made a mistake and own up to it and he should.
COSTELLO: So, Sally, along those lines, you know, when Sanders' response is, "I'll respond in kind in if I'm attacked," it kind of sounds a lot like Donald Trump.
KOHN: Yes. Listen, I mean, I'm not -- I'm not being glib when I say this has given me serious pause. And look, the New York primary is in a few weeks. I actually personally still have not decided who to pull the lever for. And this kind of attack on, you know -- I don't agree with everything Hillary Clinton stands for, but she is, you know, an honorable public servant and definitely qualified to be president.
And I believe and what I've admired about the Democratic contest so far is that it has been a debate of issues and substance and on most of those issues I still side with Senator Sanders, but it's equally important that we be a united and civil party, especially in defeating the Republicans, but also because that's what we as Democrats believe in. We believe in the ideas. We don't believe in this gutter-sniping personal attack stuff. That's not us.
COSTELLO: On the other hand, Ruben, Bernie Sanders says he's not in attack mode. In fact, well, listen to what he said for yourself on MSNBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: How often have I talked about Hillary Clinton's e-mails? Have you heard me? Not a word. How often have I talked about the Clinton Foundation's fundraising. Have you have heard me say one word about it during the campaign? To say that I am running a vitriolic campaign.
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC'S "MORNING JOE": Why haven't you?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC'S "MORNING JOE": Well, I mean, some of them are very good questions.
SANDERS: What?
BRZEZINSKI: Some of them are very good questions.
SANDERS: They are, but I have tried to stay away from personal attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So, Ruben, he hasn't really brought up Hillary Clinton's e- mails or other controversies.
DIAZ: He just brought it up right there. Look, I'm happy to see them at least dialing it back because his comments about Hillary not being qualified are pretty ridiculous. I don't think he ever believed that. Certainly none of the Bernie supporters believed that. When you have someone who like Hillary, who as first lady, been champions of children's issues, someone who's been there for us on immigration reform as U.S. senator, and getting transportation dollars to New York. Someone who as secretary of state is knowledgeable, more knowledgeable than any of the candidates running on foreign policy.
Certainly if that doesn't qualify her to be president of the United States, I don't know what does. That's the reason why she was received so warmly. She received a hero's welcome yesterday in the Bronx. People love her there. She's been there in the past. We know her as a friend. She's been a champion on health care and hopefully we can get beyond this and get back to the issues.
We know that Hillary is going to do well here on April 19th and as we move forward we should keep our eyes on the prize and realize that we have to unite as a party and beat the Republicans in November.
COSTELLO: OK. So, John, despite your poli-scie lesson is there any indication that the personal attacks won't continue on the Democratic side?
AVLON: Look, I think the Democratic Party this cycle has really distinguished itself from Republicans in terms of the level, tone and velocity of the vitriol. But we're in a place where people are getting tired. They're getting a little desperate. Their supporters are more inclined to view their opponents as personal enemies. And that's when things get ugly. But we're still at an asymmetric polarization between the two parties. And if the Democrats want to distinguish themselves in front of the American people by saying that, you know, we're not as extreme and mean-spirited and ideological as the Republicans, they better start thinking about the tone they set but they've done a good job to date but it could go all off the rails in New York and California.
COSTELLO: And, Ruben, before you go, I must ask you about your dad. He is a Democrat, right? He's a Democrat from the Bronx, but he supports Ted Cruz? There he is with Ted Cruz and his wife Heidi. How did that happen?
DIAZ: Well, he -- just like many sons and daughters, I am one to say that parents don't always get it right.
[10:10:05] He doesn't support Ted Cruz outright. He's been entertaining many of the candidates on the other side. Look, my father is a conservative. He is a -- a Pentecostal minister and for me it was -- I thought hypocritical of Ted Cruz to come to the Bronx after he offended Bronxites, New Yorkers, our New York values, and now he wants to come and look for votes and look for money? That's the highest level of hypocrisy.
And that's the reason why as Democrats we have to continue to talk about what Bronxites care about and what's making the Bronx better these days. The creation of jobs, building in a sustainable way. Reducing crime. That's what's going to get us over the hump in November and that's the reason why we support Hillary Clinton and then we're going to --
COSTELLO: So do you say --
DIAZ: -- move forward with all the progress that we see.
COSTELLO: Do you say these things when you sit down and have dinner with your dad?
DIAZ: I'm sorry?
COSTELLO: Do you say these things when you sit down and have dinner with your dad?
DIAZ: All the time. Not only does he hear it from me, he hears it from my siblings, he hears it from his grandchildren, and look. You know, you just -- we all have parents, and it's very difficult sometimes to change, but just like when Hillary ran in the past and my father was on the wrong side, we're going to wind up beating whoever he supports, if it's not Hillary Clinton.
COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Ruben Diaz Jr., John Avlon and Sally Kohn. Thanks to all of you.
The next debate between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton less than a week away. Thursday, April 14th. Moderated by Wolf Blitzer, 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump sets his sights on the Republican convention. Why one of his top staffers says the GOP frontrunner will clinch the nomination before the delegates meet in Cleveland.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:49] COSTELLO: Donald Trump lays the groundwork for a major fight in Cleveland at the GOP convention. The GOP frontrunner is skipping scheduled stops in California and Colorado, and beefing up the role of one of his top advisers. All of this as the battle for New York intensifies and the attacks against Ted Cruz keep on coming after his controversial New York values remark. This new ad coming from a -- Super PAC, rather, backing Cruz's GOP rival John Kasich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New Yorkers aren't stupid, Ted. After we were hit, we rallied, rebuilt, but remembered. So when you smear New York values in Iowa for votes, we remember that, too. Now you come here and conveniently say you love New York. Forget about it, Ted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And John Kasich is ahead of Ted Cruz in New York. Right? But Ted Cruz is standing firm on his comments in New York. He sat down with CNN for a one-on-one interview with Dana Bash and she's here to tell us what he had to say.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So much. Well, first of all, on the whole issue of New York values, which is coming back to bite him just a bit, now that he's actually asking New Yorkers for votes. He is not saying -- no regrets. No apologies. Nothing. And you know, I was on with you from upstate New York yesterday, and the reason why is because upstate, they get it, and that's more of his natural constituency, much more conservative up there. In fact, somebody this morning said it was like Ohio, which I know you can relate to.
COSTELLO: Yes.
BASH: Much more than New York. But the other interesting fact is that Cruz is doing much better than before in coalescing the party around him because it's more of the anti-Trump forces. But he still hasn't gotten the majority -- the vast majority of his own Republican colleagues in the Senate. Even those who really don't want Donald Trump to be the nominee at all. And one of the reasons is because they're upset that Ted Cruz went on the Senate floor and called Mitch McConnell, their collective leader, a liar.
So I asked whether or not he is willing to apologize. Listen to what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what, Dana? This is why people are so frustrated with Washington. It's the inside battles back and forth. This isn't a game. This isn't about Washington power brokers. This isn't a smoke-filled room. If we want to turn the country around, let me tell you who should apologize. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should apologize to the American people --
BASH: But you called Mitch McConnell a liar, not them.
CRUZ: They should apologize to the American people for seven years of economic stagnation, for people seeing jobs going overseas, for wages stuck.
Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should apologize to all the single moms who've been forced into part-time work because of Obamacare.
BASH: So no apology for Mitch McConnell? Because it could help you.
CRUZ: Look, my focus is not on Washington. That ain't going to happen. And if the Washington lobbyists want to see that happen they can hold their breath a long, long time. My focus is on the American people and uniting Republicans behind a shared value -- shared values and a shared vision.
Now I will tell you this, I am happy to praise Mitch McConnell and praise him effusively for his stand, along with Chuck Grassley, saying, we are not going to hold hearings on a replacement for Antonin Scalia. Mitch McConnell is doing the right thing, Chuck Grassley is doing the right thing, and I'm proud to commend them, I've done so publicly many times. They're doing the right thing in saying that Justice Scalia's replacement should be made by the next president so that the American people have an opportunity to vote and express their views.
But we need to be focusing on the American people, not politicians bickering in Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: So ain't going to happen. That's pretty strong. He's not going to apologize for saying that his own leader was a liar, doing it from the Senate floor. Now, you know, he is walking kind of a fine line that he's not used to walking because he's used to being the flame thrower, the outsider, somebody who really gets the grassroots riled up because he stands up to the leadership.
So he wants to keep that sentiment behind him, but he also does need to really get all of these guys to coalesce behind him even more for them to tell their activists, maybe, their delegates in their states, if it comes to the convention floor, to get behind him. S
[09:20:04] So, again, it's not a usual state for Ted Cruz who's used to being very much the outsider.
COSTELLO: It's only going to get worse.
Dana Bash, thanks so much.
BASH: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: OK. So Senator Ted Cruz has perhaps the most unusual campaign rallying cry in history. "A vote for me is a vote against Donald Trump." It's moving with many establishment Republicans who appear to be holding their noses as they endorse Senator Cruz, but at some point, Senator Cruz will need voters to cast a ballot for him because they actually like him. Not because they dislike Donald Trump.
With me now to talk about that, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Kevin Madden, Cruz surrogate and founder and president of Tea Party Nation, Judson Phillips, I'm also joined by John Phillips, he's a Trump supporter and talk radio host.
Thanks to all of you for being with me this morning.
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be with you.
JUDSON PHILLIPS, TED CRUZ SUPPORTER: Good morning, Carol.
MADDEN: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Nice to have all of you here.
So, Judson, Red State, a conservative blog that supports Senator Cruz, says Mr. Cruz is only doing half his job right now. He's chipping away at Trump support but he's not winning ardent supporters. Is it time he focused on getting more voters to like him?
JUDSON PHILLIPS: Well, I think he is focusing on voters liking him, but he's got a -- he has to win the nomination in order to go beyond Cleveland, and guess what? When you're in a fight with somebody, you've got to beat that person, and he's doing a masterful job of taking on Donald Trump. He is winning delegates left and right, and Trump has finally realized, oh, wait a minute. I've got to pay attention to the delegates. So Cruz is doing what he needs to do and I think we're going to see him reaching out even more as the days go on from New York and we go further out.
COSTELLO: So, Kevin, listen to what Mr. Trump's new convention manager had to say about Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP'S CONVENTION MANAGER: The reality is, Ted Cruz has seen his best day. The reality is, this convention process will be over with sometime in June. Probably June 7th, and it will be apparent to the world that Trump is over the 1237 number. And at that point in time, when it is apparent, everything's going to come together.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You think Trump gets to 1237?
MANAFORT: Absolutely.
CUOMO: Before the convention?
MANAFORT: Absolutely.
CUOMO: Why the confidence? MANAFORT: Because I know the votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK, so, Kevin, I don't know if that's true, but should Cruz also start to concentrate on getting delegates to like him for who he is, instead of, you know, you've got to cast your support my way because you don't want Donald Trump in there?
MADDEN: Well, look, I think Judd has a point. I think, look, if you look at this primary process, Senator Cruz has been very successful because he has a base of some of the most committed voters inside the party. If you remember back in places like Iowa, where he did so well, these were voters that were not only going out and supporting Ted Cruz but they were going to get 10 of their friends to show up at the caucus. That was one of the reasons why he's been successful.
He knows now that part of the process of convincing the rest of the non-Trump supporters or never Trump supporters inside the GOP electorate that the mission right now for them is to stop Donald Trump. So understanding that, that's his key message right now, which is join me in achieving this goal of not letting Donald Trump get to 1,237, and walking into that convention with those votes.
So it is a -- I think, a process that has worked, and he's going to have other opportunities to do that in places that are friendly for Ted Cruz on the calendar. Places like West Virginia, he could pick up some congressional districts in California even, which should be more favorable territory for Donald Trump, as he goes through these next couple of contests.
COSTELLO: OK. So playing devil's advocate. So, John, Mr. Trump, he does appear a little worried about Ted Cruz. Otherwise, why would he hire an establishment guy like Paul Manafort to tend to the Republican delegates?
JOHN PHILLIPS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, look, I think this convention is not going to be the Sodom and Gomorrah booze fest that we're used to. It's time to throw on the gas mask and go into the smoke-filled room because this thing could get dirty. And Donald Trump has gotten serious now. He's been running this campaign on the cheap and he hired an expert. He hired a guy who specializes in counting delegates and winning nominations, and, look, he's acknowledging tacitly that this thing could go to a contested convention and I think it's a good move.
I think he's going to win big in New York. He's polling north of 50 percent there. Ted Cruz is campaigning in upstate New York because he's popular in all the portions of the country where nobody lives, and Donald Trump is going to, I think, win that race in New York and move on to California and run up some more victories, but the delegates are what matters in the primary.
COSTELLO: OK. So, Judson, if the delegates can -- if this new convention guy that Donald Trump hired can convince the delegates that Ted Cruz only has a narrow band of support, he can't bring new people to the party like Donald Trump can, will that be a winning argument for Mr. Trump?
JUDSON PHILLIPS: No, it won't, and John just let something out of the bag that I don't think he meant to.
[09:25:02] He said Trump's been doing the campaign on the cheap and he's absolutely right. Donald Trump now this far into the campaign suddenly realizes, oh, I've got to pay attention to the delegates. This is something Senator Cruz has been doing for a long time. Donald Trump I think it was just yesterday announced his New York team. Senator Cruz has had people in New York set up for weeks.
So, you know, Trump is doing this campaign on the cheap because it's all about Trump. And guess what? You're going to have a real surprise because Senator Cruz is bringing these new people in.
Hey, by the way, there's one other thing worth mentioning. New York has got one of the toughest regulations as far as switching your voter registration so you can cross over to another primary. Trump just announced his team yesterday. Guess what? The deadline to switch over from independent or Democrat to Republican was a month ago. He's not going to be able to bring in the people who he has been bringing in, in other states that have been propelling him to victory.
COSTELLO: Interesting. OK, so, Kevin, I just want to touch on John Kasich because he's still in there, right?
MADDEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: And he's actually beating Ted Cruz in the state of New York. So could he be a factor?
MADDEN: Well, he definitely will be a factor. I think he'll be a larger factor in the main goal for so many of the Cruz and Kasich supporters, which is again deny Donald Trump that 1,237. Look, Kasich's play here is that he assumes that when we get to a convention, if there is a contested convention, which is looking more and more likely, that all candidates are created equal, and that when all of these delegates are released on a second or third ballot, that they'll look at John Kasich and they'll see John Kasich as a candidate that can answer the one fundamental question that they believe will define every Republican delegate's votes in those later ballots, which is who's the best positioned -- who's best positioned to beat Hillary Clinton?
And their argument will be that if you look at any of these national polls head to head that John Kasich is best positioned.
COSTELLO: Interesting. I have to leave it there. Kevin Madden, Judson Phillips, John Phillips, thanks to all of you.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary is not the only Clinton clashing on the campaign trail. Bill Clinton faced off with Black Lives Matter protestors, and it wasn't pretty.
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