Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Donald Trump Keeps Up RNC Feud, Rips Delegate Process; Cruz Looks For Wyoming Sweep; Sanders Earned Nearly $206K In 2014, Tax Returns Show; Pope Discusses Sanders Meeting; The Fight for New York Delegates; In the Event of A Brokered GOP Convention; New Twist in Murder of Ex-NFL Star Will Smith. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 16, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:05] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we will leave it there. Ford O'Connell, Jeffrey Lord, thanks so much, Gentlemen. Appreciate it.

All right, of course, there's more so stay with us. Because coming up at the top of the hour, Donald Trump is holding a live rally in Syracuse, New York. We will bring you that event as it happens.

Welcome again. This is the CNN NEWSROOM. I am Fredricka Whitfield. Right now, the Republican battle for delegates is taking place in two states on opposite sides of the country.

In New York, Donald Trump is holding a rally at any moment, speaking to the crowd there. He is expected to win big in his home state, that's what his camp is hoping when New Yorkers go to the polls in three days.

Then there's Wyoming. Ted Cruz will be speaking to Republican leaders there at any moment. Cruz is expecting a sweep of delegates in that state as party leaders hold a convention in Casper, Wyoming.

So it is a state where Donald Trump once again decided not to show up at all, and is once again getting outmaneuvered perhaps for delegates there.

Also at this hour, we are awaiting the return of Bernie Sanders to New York. The Democratic candidate returning from his rather unexpected impromptu meeting with the pope at the Vatican.

We have a team of correspondents covering all of this. Let's begin with our political coverage with Chris Frates who is at the Trump rally set to take place at any moment in Syracuse, New York. Chris, set the stage for us. What's expected?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, so we are getting ready to hear from Donald Trump here in Syracuse. We'll see if he continues to gripe about the GOP nomination process.

He has been hitting the idea of state conventions hard saying it is part of a rigged system. That there should be primaries and caucuses and not state conventions where party insiders go to choose the delegates.

We talked to some Trump supporters who tend to agree with Donald Trump saying that it should be up for a vote. We also talked to other Trump supporters who say they thought maybe Donald Trump wasn't quite prepared to play the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think that the system has been this way before Trump got in. Perhaps he doesn't have a big enough ground game in those places and somehow that got passed him.

But I don't like the fact that people are not actually voting for who they want to vote for. So as much as he shouldn't complain too much about it, again, this is another thing that needs major changes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The system has been in place a long time, right? Maybe he should have been a little more prepared for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: The Republican National Committee has said these rules have been in place for months and the candidates have known about it. In fact, this whole process was the same process that nominated Abraham Lincoln back in 1860. So the party says there really should be no surprises here.

Of course, Ted Cruz did very well in Colorado. He really took all of the delegates away from Donald Trump. He's expected to do the same thing in Wyoming today. In fact, he is in Wyoming today, not here in New York.

That's also no surprise because Donald Trump is doing well here in the empire state. This is home for Donald Trump. He is leading everybody by double digits. Ted Cruz is in third place with 16 percent. Donald Trump 54 percent in the most recent "Wall Street Journal" poll.

And we talked to supporters here who said they're excited about Donald Trump because he is bringing that business sensibility. And he really found a market in the political marketplace. That was the voice for the voiceless and the silent majority. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The silent majority are silent because we are working. We are busy. We are beaten down and retired. We don't have a voice too often. What he has done is service because he has given us a voice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now that supporter telling me that he took a day off of work to be here. A lot of people are looking forward to hearing Trump's voice because they feel like he is saying what they can't say -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: I think it is so great hearing from people in the audience, prior to whatever Donald Trump's message is going to be today to hear from them as to why they're supporting him and to say they're not excusing him for not knowing the rules.

He should have known it early on, yet that is not in any way taking the shine off their support for him. So great to hear. Can't wait to hear from more people. Thanks so much, Chris Frates. Appreciate that.

All right, moving west now to Wyoming where rival Ted Cruz is poised to pick up most of the delegates in that state's Republican convention. The Texas senator picked up nine delegates in Wyoming caucuses last month with Donald Trump and Marco Rubio each picking up one.

Today Cruz is expected to get most if not all of the final 14 delegates from Wyoming, up for grabs today. Let's get to CNN's Ana Cabrera.

So Ana, Cruz is expected to speak at that Wyoming convention at any moment. You were there in Colorado when he did the same thing and then walked away majority of the support. Is that kind of the key to his success right now?

[12:05:08]ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's probably not the key to his success, but it's certainly helps with the momentum he already has already here in this state, and the Trump campaign nowhere to be seen in part because they don't think that would make a difference for them.

It all has to do with the system that Wyoming uses to elect its delegates. Again, this is a state where they elect their delegates at county and state conventions, instead of through an open primary or national caucus process.

This is the same system that Donald Trump has been criticizing, a system he has really struggled to succeed in, whereas Ted Cruz has said he is well organized. He really did his homework.

And that they both play by the same rules, but yet this system seems to be working for him. I can tell you talking to folks here at this convention, definitely Cruz supporters outnumber Trump supporters. But we caught up with both of them. I want you to listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: It looks like Ted Cruz has your vote.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CABRERA: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a constitutional conservative, the only true conservative in the race.

CABRERA: You're supporting Trump. Tell me why. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think United States is ready for a change. I think the system has been hijacked way too long. I never liked the idea of one person deciding, you know, 1,500 people's vote. It never rubs me right. It always bothered me. One man, one vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now Cruz definitely has the momentum as you mention, he has already picked up the majority of the delegates who have already been elected in this state, 14 more to be elected today. Ted Cruz is set to speak in the next half hour -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ana Cabrera, thank you so much there in Casper, Wyoming. We will check back with you.

All right, to the Democratic side, Senator Bernie Sanders campaigning full speed ahead in New York. He will be in Brooklyn today after spending less than 48 hours at the Vatican. We are expecting him to touch down sometime this midday.

We learned this morning in fact, though, that Sanders had an impromptu meeting with Pope Francis before he left Rome. Sanders also just released his tax return last night as promised at CNN's Democratic debate.

Bernie and Jane Sanders earned nearly $206,000 in 2014 and paid about $28,000 in federal taxes. Let's talk about this with CNN political commentator, Marc Lamont Hill, and Democratic strategist, Nomiki Konst. She is also a Bernie Sanders supporter. Good to see you both.

So Nomiki, Sanders' income is very different from Hillary Clinton's, but everyone knew that before the tax returns were released.

We're talking about Bernie and Jane Sanders together with this just over $200,000, Bill and Hillary Clinton bringing in $28 million in 2014. How does that disparity registering with voters or does it underscore something that people already knew?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think a lot of people know it, but when you see that number, it really hits you. Bernie and Jane Sanders are a reflection of the campaign they are running. It's a people's campaign.

Bernie Sanders' campaign as we all know is fueled off of $27 donations. He uses people like me, an average person, unpaid by the campaign, representing the people, right?

Hillary Clinton on the other hand is someone who made $11 million last year alone off Wall Street speeches in one year. Hillary Clinton is someone who uses surrogates that are elected officials, who are also not really -- a lot of them don't have high approval ratings right now in New York.

Hillary Clinton is relying on superdelegates. You know, one superdelegate equals 10,000 voters. It is a tale of two different campaigns and tale of a split in the Democratic Party. I think the establishment has been avoiding a lot of what's happening. I mean, the fact that so many Democrats are leaving the party and becoming independents.

The fact that they haven't been recruiting young people, that they have close primaries in a Democratic state like New York where it hurts people that are young because they move every year, where there are 15 registration deadlines.

You know, the Democrats aren't making it easy for people to vote, yet they want to count on their vote come general election. It is the tale of two campaigns.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So Marc, why does money matter in this respect? Legally presidential candidates don't have to release their tax forms like this. At this juncture, it is a voluntary thing. We're talking about disparity of these incomes.

We are also talking about once people leave the White House, they usually make a whole lot of money on public speeches. The president as well as the first lady, which accounts for a good amount of their money.

At the same time, we don't really know what precedes the 2014 income for Bernie and Jane Sanders because we know this was an unusual year and that Jane Sanders wasn't working but primarily as an adviser.

[12:10:11]So is this kind of money disparity important, valuable in the race for the White House right now?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The money disparity in their respective personal incomes is less significant. Let's be honest. Obviously Bernie Sanders and his wife make a lot less money than Hillary Clinton and her husband. But I disagree, neither of them represent the average American. The average American doesn't make $206,000 a year either.

WHITFIELD: Right. It's more like somewhere in the $50,000 range represents the average, the median income in America.

HILL: Right. So it is not about that. It is about policy. It is about whose economic vision will allow the average American to thrive, engage in social mobility. Who is not just talking about the wealthy and middle class, but also talking about the working poor and desperately poor.

Whose policies have made their circumstance worse or more precarious than they were prior? Those are the questions that we have to ask.

The display of tax returns in many ways is just a piece of political theater. It's a way to say that if you don't do it, there must be something shady about you.

If you do, do it and you come out with a lot of money, they cast you as a 1 percenter, out of step with reality. I would argue that Hillary Clinton's economic vision over the last 10, 15 years has been troublesome, but I don't pin it on the fact that she made a lot of money.

There are people who make lots of money and still have responsible economic visions. Hillary Clinton isn't one of them. So I think in many ways it can become a distraction from the policy dimension of this.

I don't care how much money their individual W-2 say, I care about what their political vision is. If the question is how did you get the money? That's a whole different thing.

Now first thing, Hillary made a bunch of money talking to private donors and Wall Street and won't tell us what she said, that's a legitimate question, that's different than saying because you make a lot of money, you can't have responsible --

WHITFIELD: OK, Nomiki, so last hour, I spoke to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo who explained why he thinks Clinton has an advantage in New York. And by the way, he is a Hillary Clinton supporter but listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: Well, I think Hillary Clinton is going to do very well in New York because there's one basic advantage. New Yorkers know Hillary Clinton. She was here for senator. We've seen her work. We've seen her performance.

We know that she's effective at making change, which is what this race really comes down to at the end of the day in my opinion, Fred. As Democrats, you listen to Bernie, to Hillary, they're basically saying the same thing, same goals.

The question is who can actually get it done. I think Hillary has proven, especially to New Yorkers, that she can make change. She can make the government work.

When you become president, they don't give you a magic wand that you wave. You have to get legislation passed. You have to get agencies to run programs and that's an art form in and of itself. That's what Hillary does very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And so Nomiki, that was the response when I asked about if you recall at the end of the debate, Hillary Clinton was giving a litany of these are the things I have done and I want an opportunity to continue to do this versus Bernie Sanders said this is my vision, this is what I see in America and I want the opportunity to help deliver this.

Does it appear a few days before this New York primary whether that will be an obstacle for Bernie Sanders to express that it is the vision that voters need to take a chance on opposed to the candidate that says this is what I have done and I want to do more.

KONST: Well, I think it is about both. A lot of people do understand Hillary Clinton's record. New Yorkers especially, the working families party is a very important party in New York.

They didn't choose to nominate or support Hillary Clinton. They chose to support Bernie Sanders because of his record, accomplishments in the Senate, the fact he passed more amendments and more legislation than Hillary Clinton in the Senate, that he has been able to work with republicans on passing progressive amendments.

These are things that real doers do. He is a change agent. She talks about the record. But when you start to dig, it is not there. The economy has shifted a lot since she was president, excuse me, since she was senator of New York in 2008, the financial industry collapse, New Yorkers have been hurt.

So I think the message that Governor Cuomo is saying now is a lot of rhetoric, but the reality is she really didn't get much done as senator, and very much so as secretary of state as well, and we are starting to see that in the last debates.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're going to leave it there. Marc, you'll have opportunity later to respond to that. Thanks so much, Marc Lamont Hill and Nomiki Konst. Appreciate it.

[12:15:00]All right, still ahead, after a brief meeting with Senator Bernie Sanders, the pope headed to Greece, met with migrants, and then took three families back with him to the Vatican. What their new life could look like next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This is breaking news. We are learning more about that meeting between the pope and Senator Bernie Sanders. Ben Wedeman is joining us now from Rome.

So Ben, explain more because Bernie Sanders went to the Vatican without any kind of confirmation that he would ever meet with the pope, instead he was there on the objective of the social and economic summit. But then something rather miraculous happened and the two found themselves in the same place. How did it go?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In fact, 24 hours ago, Vatican officials were quite unequivocal that there would be no meeting -- there was no meeting scheduled between Pope Francis and Senator Sanders.

But at 4:00 in the morning apparently they did run into one another somewhere, in the Casa Santa Martha, which is the residence, sort of the hotel in the Vatican where Pope Francis stays.

I spoke to Bernie Sanders this morning and he told me what he told Pope Francis, which was many words of praise and admiration for the man. When I asked Senator Sanders, however, what did the pope tell him? He said well, you should check with the Vatican, I'm not going to say.

Now we know what he said, Pope Francis. Now Pope Francis speaking to pool of reporters on the plane returning from Greece to Italy said this. I have to read it.

He said, "This morning as I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there. He knew I was coming out at the time and he had the kindness to greet me. When I came down, he introduced himself. I greeted him with a handshake and nothing more. It is common courtesy. That's called common courtesy."

[12:20:03]Now responding to criticism that perhaps he was getting involved in American politics, the pope went on to say, "If someone thinks greeting someone is getting involved in politics, I recommend that they find a psychiatrist" -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Wow. So really setting it straight that there was pleasantries, being polite, about the greeting, and shaking hands. But no words that the Vatican is willing to share. There were no words, no promises, and no other endorsements. Just a greeting.

WEDEMAN: Nothing of the sort. What's interesting is that one of our producers spoke with Jeffrey Sacks (ph), who is a Columbia University professor and also an adviser to Professor Sanders, who is also close to the pope.

He suggested that it was Pope Francis who took the initiative so there's a bit of a mystery in all of this. Hopefully, we will get to the bottom of it.

WHITFIELD: OK, well, nonetheless, if you get a chance to shake the hands of the pope, you still have bragging rights to say I was in the room with the pope and I got to shake hands. That's still a pretty nice story to be able to tell. All right, Ben Wedeman, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

OK, we are also learning that Bernie Sanders, the senator, is expected to land in New York in about three hours from now from that trip from that encounter.

All right, coming up, Trump and Cruz, they don't get along, but there is one thing they can agree on, they both think the economy is doomed. This as we wait for Donald Trump to take the stage in Syracuse, New York. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:31]

WHITFIELD: All right, dueling events right now, Ted Cruz in Wyoming. There you go. What you're seeing is Donald Trump who has arrived in Syracuse, New York. To the right, Casper, Wyoming, someone introducing Ted Cruz, his eventual arrival there.

So Donald Trump trying to appeal to voters in New York ahead of the primary. Just now three days away. Polling shows Donald Trump way out in front of the empire state with a favorable lead of 54 percent with Ted Cruz, a distant 16 percent.

But it's Ted Cruz who is hoping to do well in Wyoming because he's the only one of the GOP field to arrive in the Wyoming convention today with many delegates at stake.

So let's talk about these very two, very different candidates who are at odds. They both believe the economy is in big trouble. This week Cruz firing a warning shot about the fed and that a market crash could be coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fed has for those with assets driven up assets values, but that's not built on anything real. It is not built on an increase in the intrinsic values. It is based on playing games with money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Donald Trump has been echoing a similar sentiment, telling "The Washington Post," quote, "I think we're sitting on an economic bubble, a financial bubble, and the country is headed for a massive recession."

Remember that when you talk to the editorial board and "The Washington Post" a couple weeks ago. All right, joining me right now to talk more about all of this, Larry Sabato, the director for the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, and Jason Johnson, professor of Political Science at Hiram College. All right, good to see both of you.

OK, this whole view of pessimism is not what people are looking to hear from a presidential candidate. Jason, you're here in the room with me first. Why does Ted Cruz and Donald Trump feel this is beneficial to scare them straight, so to speak?

JASON JOHNSON, PROFESSOR, POLITICS EDITOR, THEROOT.COM: It is not about scaring people straight, Fred. It's about if I am running against the incumbent party, I have to talk down the economy. Everybody does it. If you say the economy is great, that helps Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders. So this is actually very typical.

WHITFIELD: But how do you know these things? Because you hear from a lot of economists that say there are no indicators as of now to support what it is Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are saying.

JOHNSON: They don't have to know anything, Fred. It is not about being correct, it is about setting a narrative. All you have to do is say look, if you don't vote for me, if you don't change what we are doing now, we are going to be in trouble.

George Bush did the same thing in 2000, Bill Clinton, it is the economy stupid in 1992. As long as there's economic anxiety, if you're the challenger, you say the economy is going to heck in a hand basket. They're doing what any candidate should do.

WHITFIELD: All right, Larry, so this is beneficial potentially to Ted Cruz and Donald Trump? Do you agree? LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA'S CENTER FOR POLITICS: It's beneficial within the Republican context. Jason is absolutely correct. If you are running against the incumbent White House party, you must convince at least your partisans that the sky is falling.

And if they believe the sky is falling, more inclined to get excited and vote for you during the primaries and in November if you're the nominee.

WHITFIELD: All right, Larry Sabato, Jason Johnson, thank you both so much. You see Donald Trump speaking there in Syracuse. We will find out in a moment when we come back whether he is saying the sky is falling or whether there's something better in the forecast with him in the White House. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:32:17] WHITFIELD: Hi there, in Syracuse New York, Donald Trump who according to poll is 54 percent in the lead for the primary, there in New York, Republicans and Democrats have so many delegates up for grabs. Donald Trump was trying to differentiate himself there between he and Ted Cruz and John Kasich.

Let's listen in

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had tremendous grudge no matter where we go, it is a movement like they've never seen before, it's a movement that may be isn't going to ever happen again and the only way you stop the movement is if we don't do a good job on Tuesday that's what it is. We have to keep it going, you know, one of the -- and you know what let me tell you very simply, I am self funding, putting up my own money, OK is that smart? I don't know.

And I always say I never get enough credit for that. I never get enough credit because when somebody looks at me and nobody thinks in awhile he's putting up his own money, let me tell you what it means.

These guys, these politicians are all bought and paid for, remember it. Remember it. Look, I used to be the ultimate establishment person nine months ago I was like the perfect person. I gave massive campaign contributions to everybody I mean I was like -- but I saw the system, and the system is not working, and the system is all rigged as far as the delegate stuff is going.

Now look, I guess I'm complaining because it is not fair to the people. The people have to be -- when you look at what happened in Wyoming and what's happening there, when you look at what's happening in Colorado where the people never, where the people got a chance to vote, and they're going nuts out there, they're angry. The bosses took away their vote and I wasn't going to send big teams of people three, four months ago and have them out there. Again, I am self funding, you know, what you will appreciate because your business -- a lot of business people here.

And we're going to talk regulations by the way ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Donald Trump there in Syracuse, New York, trying to stump for support there days ahead of the New York primarily.

We'll bring back Jason Johnson here professor of Hiram College. All right so Donald Trump, you know, still exhibiting, he has sour grapes over what happened in Colorado, Wyoming, potentially the same thing could happen, they're caucusing with the GOP convention there today because Donald Trump is not going West, Ted Cruz is. But right now Donald Trump says, you know what I'm self funding, I want to remind people of that, I cannot be bought.

So, who doesn't know that among his supporters right now, what do his supporters either want to hear from him leading into the primary or need to hear anything now.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICS EDITOR. THEROOT.COM: Fred, I don't like this new Donald Trump.

WHITFIELD: What do you mean?

(CROSSTALK)

[12:35:03] JOHNSON: This seems to be the proud, I am taking on the establishment. I'm the tough. Now he is a whiner. Now he is I don't like the rules. Oh poor me I am self funding. No, no, no, no, no, he is like the guy that wants to argue with you on scrabble, I didn't find that in the dictionary. Learn the rules, do your job and take over

WHITFIELD: So does that become a turnoff for his supporters or, you know, his supporters are in with him no matter what.

JOHNSON: They're in with him no matter what. Like he said, he could shoot somebody in Times Square and they'll be in with him but I think for people who may be vacillating. I think for the people who may have to consider Trump as their nominee at the end, this is disappointing because he no longer sounds like a brash tough guy, he sounds like a whiner and a loser.

WHITFIELD: So, does that mean Donald Trump or may be even Ted Cruz or John Kasich, they're all in a position now where if whoever their support is, the identified, you know, supporters that's just the way it is. There's no need to try to garner more support is that what we are hearing from candidates now?

JOHNSON: I don't think that's it Fred. I think right now what you're really realizing is they're trying to still win a primary. They know they're going to a contested convention, and then they have to go about convincing everyone else who didn't vote for them to like them. That's why Ted Cruz is saying, hey look, I can go and bring in Trump supporters. That's what John Kasich is saying I can bring in independence. Everybody knows that contested convention is a foregone conclusion but being able to woo the people who didn't vote for you, that's what's going on now.

WHITFIELD: At the same time is this Donald Trump kind of setting the stage for what could be brokered convention, I'll go ahead and let it hang out, how unfair, you know, how -- you know, shafted I may have been. You know, how rigged the system is, so that that might potentially influence the sentiment on the floor if it comes down to brokered convention.

JOHNSON: I don't think that's going to influence anything on the floor, because that's why Ted Cruz is grabbing all of these delegates right now, because these people are saying "look, I am in a committed state, I will vote Trump in the first round, I'm going vote for you in second round no matter what." But I think the party leadership recognizes this would be a mess, it would be terrible if Donald Trump got robbed of the nomination. So I think they all know that in the end of the day I think he still going get it.

WHITFIELD: All right, speaking of brokered conventions or what could and could not happen this summer John Kasich there in Great Neck, New York.

Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And as I've said, I would never -- look, we would all love to see some sort of a two state solution but that's up to the parties. I'm not going to tell the Israelis how to run their security, how to run all their foreign policy. If I have something I want to tell them, I'll tell them without cameras being around. But they're undergoing tremendous pressure today because of the stabbings that have occurred and just seems as though it's one thing after another, but I stand with them. I'm not a neutral party when it comes to Israel. You count me four squared in their corner.

And in regard to that, I believe that they need to constantly have military superiority. And I am very happy with the fact that even when I was in Congress, we began the early days of the iron dome, but it's become clear that the attacks come in every single way, and what I also am concerned about is the rise of anti-semitism in this world. And I will tell you this it will not be tolerated our college campuses

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the president and you were saying two state solutions, it would be on the parties to achieve that. What role, if any, do you see for the U.S President ...

KASICH: Well, I think, you know, I -- you know, United States always conserve as a mediator, as a -- and I've done this at times in my life, to bring parties together who search for stability and some level of peace. But you have to have willing partners. That's why presidents don't run around the world having meetings without having opportunity to achieve something. You have to have willing partners. And right now, I don't think that the Israelis have a willing partner for peace. So the moment that a partner would appear and say let's see if we can stabilize the situation, I'd be the first one there to help. Believe me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, John Kasich there in Greet Neck, New York, speaking and responding to questions of global importance.

[12:39;29] We're going to have much more on the campaign trail right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, in Wyoming with delegates are up for grabs Ted Cruz wants them all so he is the only GOP candidate who is there stumping for support at this GOP convention. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: America is the Saudi Arabia coal and we're going to develop our resources and bring jobs back.

Just a couple of weeks ago I was at a campaign event in West Virginia with several hundred coal miners. Person after person I had the opportunity to shake hands with and look them the looks in, in the eyes and person after person, what they said was really simple they just said help me. My entire life, my family is under assault from the federal government. This is wrong in the United States of America.

We are blessed with unbelievable energy resources coal, oil, gas, wind, nuclear, solar, ethanol, Bio fuels all of them we ought to develop all of them and that's millions of jobs for Americans without knuckle heads from Washington stopping it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right Ted Cruz, they're talking about securities of employment to religion there in Casper, Wyoming.

Our Jason Johnson is back professor Hiram College. So he is putting himself in a position a great advantage potentially because he is the only GOP candidate who is spending the time in front of the GOP convention there in Casper, Wyoming right now.

Why doesn't Donald Trump or John Kasich feel like they need to be doing the same?

JOHNSON: Well, I think in Kasich's case he simply didn't have the money. He can't afford to fly around this and that not many frequent fly, miles. In the case of Donald Trump it's because he is bringing up the rear. I mean Donald Trump hasn't figured out the rules to the campaign yet. And so, he didn't even realize that he should be in Wyoming. And I also think he really believes ...

[12:45:04] WHITFIELD: But especially after Colorado when he, you know, he suffered a great loss, right?

JOHNSON: Right, exactly.

WHITFIELD: ... by getting no representation what so ever in Colorado, not spending time there, you know, his argument has been it's a rigged system.

JOHNSON: Right.

WHITFIELD: But now knowing or hearing that this constant reinforcement of here are the rules, these are the rules. Why would he feel like Wyoming is not opportunity in which to kind of change his ground game?

JOHNSON: Well, because number one, he has made some changes, Fred, you know, Trump did go hire a delegate manager, a delegate Svengali who's going to help him out one way or another.

WHITFIELD: True...

JOHNSON: But the change is he wants a big victory in his home state, he wants to make sure he's over 50 percent, which he has right no, so he can crush Cruz, head to down Maryland, head down to Pennsylvania place like that. But I also think its just arrogance. I think Donald Trump really thinks well, I can just do things my own way it worked so far and rather than learning the new rules I'm going to stamp my feet complain with a little baby. And so I think that's why it's not Wyoming.

WHITFIELD: Meantime, Ted Cruz perhaps, getting some potential gains here in Wyoming. Does that create a scenario where he becomes a greater threat to a Donald Trump, the front-runner?

JOHNSON: Most definitely, between Colorado, between things that happened in Louisiana, between Wyoming, he is going to narrow this gap ...

WHITFIELD: He becomes a more viable candidate

JOHNSON: Exactly, much more viable candidate and a contested convention.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jason Johnson, thanks so much appreciate -- thanks for hanging around with me and helping us dots the map with all of these candidates trying to get that support. Thank you. All right we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:13] WHITFIELD: Welcome back, new twists in the murder of a beloved former NFL star. The defense attorney for the man who gunned down ex-Saints captain Will Smith after a fender bender last Saturday, is demanding officers recuse themselves from the investigation. The lawyer for Cardell Hayes wrote a letter accusing the New Orleans police department of being incompetent. The suspect's attorney also claiming the deceased NFL player was the aggressor in the altercation, this as the city remembers the life of a future hall of famer and prepares to lay him to rest today.

Here's CNN's Martin Savidge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just outside New Orleans, NFL players and coaches pay their respects to a Saint. Number 91, Will Smith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rest in peace Will Smith.

SAVIDGE: On the street where Smith died, fans celebrate his life, in true New Orleans style.

Smith died a week ago, gunned down while arguing with another driver over a minor accident. The exact details are still in questioned

His death has shocked New Orleans and beyond. The coach of the Saints declaring our city is broken.

MITCH LANDRIEU, (D) NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: Is it? I think that Shawn's initial reaction was one of emotion. He wasn't really looking at the facts and circumstances of this particular case.

SAVIDGE: According to the FBI, murders in New Orleans are down 65 percent from their peak in 1994. That year, 424 people were killed. Last year, it was 165. Landrieu is bothered by the focus on just one.

LANDRIEU: I will say though and I mean this with a great respect, there's been a lot of attention paid to this particular case. The next day, there was another young man that was killed in the city that nobody is talking about and the hundreds of people that have been killed before nobody seems to know or care about either.

SAVIDGE: If he sounds frustrated, he is. You see, on the very day Smith died, voters in New Orleans rejected a property tax increase to help pay for 400 additional police officers.

LANDRIEU: I have been in more funerals than I want to be to.

SAVIDGE: Father Bill Terry is frustrated too. He is the keeper of the murder board, an ever growing sign outside his church on which he writes murder victims' names. Will Smith was just one of six, he added Thursday.

FATHER BILL TERRY, SAINT ANNA'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH, NEW ORLEANS: I added Gerald Smith, Norman Lyons (ph), Raynell Kimbrough (ph), Dawn Scott, Will Smith, and Bryant Bransfeld (ph).

SAVIDGE: Father Terry also writes their ages.

TERRY: 25, 23, 31, 28, 34, 31. That's a waste, isn't it? SAVIDGE: Back at city hall, the mayor surprises me with his own murder board, with not just names but faces of every murder victim who has died since he took office.

SAVIDGE: And who made this?

LANDRIEU: I made it.

SAVIDGE: Why did you make it?

LANDRIEU: Because it's the most important thing that I do. I talk about trying to keep the city safe every day and young men who lose their lives and women through gun violence, but mostly young men.

SAVIDGE: Both the mayor and minister know people are shocked and saddened by Smith's death and they also hope finally ready to work together for change.

Martin Savidge, CNN, New Orleans.

WHITFIELD: So these questions persist now, who was the aggressor and whether the former Saints player ever brandished a weapon during that altercation.

Let's talk about it with civil rights attorney Avery Freeman and Richard Herman, New York criminal defense attorney. All right, good to see you all.

All right, so this is a very difficult case I'm sure for investigators to get to the bottom of, even though they have eyewitness accounts, there has been videotape showing how Will Smith's vehicle, you know, rear ended Mr. Hayes' vehicle. So I wonder Richard if you could help, you know, take us through what will actually be determined here. Is it an issue of who have the right to brandish a weapon, show a weapon, fire a weapon? What is that issue here?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Fred, the issue is stand in your ground law which we've covered over the years. That's in effect in Louisiana and the issue is whether or not Hayes felt he was in imminent, imminent fear of death, great bodily harm that then allow him a justifiable manner to protect himself and shoot. Now, the issue is ...

WHITFIELD: But then that would mean, if I could just stop you there, that would mean after his vehicle is bumped as opposed to taking off, going in different direction. It would mean pursuing the person who just bumped you. So, it seems to me that you're no longer feeling the fear, right, because you're going toward what you're saying fears you. And then there is the issue of the weapon. So then pick it up from there after establishing fear or lack thereof.

[12:55:10] HERMAN: Yeah, and you cannot be the aggressor and that's the issue. You cannot be the aggressor. And here after Smith hit him in the rear and took off, Hayes went after him. That makes him now an aggressor. So, and then he bumps allegedly Smith's vehicle in the rear, and the two men get out, there's an altercation. And it would have been signed, sealed, delivered case except for the fact that police uncovered a loaded handgun in Smith's car.

Now that's going to raise the specter of whether that gun was pulled, which then would have been a justifiable use of the other gun back in pencil like all cases Fred. Witness inside the Smith vehicle, can they be trusted, are they credible, is Hayes credible, are the police credible. You heard defense counsel reaching out actually to State police to take over the investigation. So, I think feels about it.

WHITFIELD: So, then Avery, then the issue of the guns in the vehicle, that a gun was in the vehicle, does that necessarily mean it was on display, that it was used? I mean, what will investigators have to try to determine, how will they determine whether this was an issue of now two people brandishing weapons and threatening each other?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: Well, there's no evidence the Will Smith was brandishing anything, but there is no question. However, that there was a gun back in his car. When Will Smith gets shot in the back seven times, I don't care if you've got stand your ground, (inaudible), gun, you know, battles of the OK corral, the fact is, that if anything the best Cardell Hayes has is conventional self defense.

And when you shoot somebody like that, then turn around and you shoot the wife twice in the legs. I can't fathom how there's any reasonable self defense. I go do down in law (ph) prosecute this right now.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, it's terrible case. Avery, Richard, thank you so much, there's so much still to uncover about the case. Appreciate it. Good to see you guys.

What's more in the CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)