Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

John Kasich Suspends Campaign; Hillary Clinton Interview. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 04, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Back at 5:00 Eastern on "The Situation Room" with that interview with Donald Trump. For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next. For our viewers here in North America, Anderson Cooper's live interview with Hillary Clinton is coming up.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much, my friend.

Great to be with all of you on this Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Are you walking CNN.

And, man, do we have a lot coming your way over the course of the next two hours. Breaking developments here today.

First of all, in a matter of minutes, we will be hearing from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She will be giving Anderson Cooper an exclusive interview live here on CNN. It is her first one-on-one since she lost the Indiana primary. And as we wait for the Democratic front-runner to speak, we now know for the first time with certainty who she would face come November for the general election should she ultimately lock up her party's nomination, Donald Trump. And that is not only because he leads the Republican delegate count or because he crushed his competition in Indiana last night. We know for a fact it will be Mr. Trump because he is the only Republican left. Ted Cruz suspended his campaign after his Indiana loss. And sources now say John Kasich will do the same in an announcement scheduled for a little later today.

So let's parse all of this out before we take Hillary Clinton live. Let me bring in our political guru, Mr. David Chalian, our CNN political director. Also with us CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash. And we have MJ Lee here in New York with breaking details first and foremost on the Ohio governor.

MJ, what do we know about Governor Kasich?

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, John Kasich, it sounds like, is out of the race. And, remember, Brooke, he has really had no path forward for a long time. This is not a sudden development. This is not even surprising. And I think really the nail in the coffin was when last night Ted Cruz, in a surprise announcement to many people, decided that he was getting out, even though Trump has not yet reached 1,237 delegates. And I think there was also no clearer sign that the GOP primary season was really over than Reince Priebus tweeting last night, look, Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee and the party needs to now move forward and take on Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: Even though the Kasich folks said, slow your roll, Reince Priebus, we're not out just yet. That was at least last evening. But a lot's changed over the course of 12 hours.

LEE: Exactly. Right. And his strategy all along has been that he, you know, wanted to take this to a contested convention. I think last night it became very clear with Trump's big win in Indiana that he probably will get to 1,237 delegates. And it's also important to keep in mind, it became increasingly clear over the last couple of weeks that there's really no appetite among Republican voters to take this to a contested convention. Many people clearly believe that whoever goes into the convention with the most number of delegates should become the nominee. So even if Trump had come short, you know, 50 to 100 delegates or what say you, I think the appetite just would not have been there for that fight to take place.

BALDWIN: What a night for all camps involved, Dana and David Chalian, let me just pose this next one to you being, I know we're going to push forward and look, of course, ahead. Once we hear from Hillary Clinton, we'll hear from Donald Trump as well. Wolf Blitzer sat down with him at Trump Tower earlier today. But my question, just for a second, can we talk about Ted Cruz. And my question is, Dana, you know, behind the scenes, what do you think ultimately was it for them to say, enough is enough? Was it, you know, the fact that he got trounced in the Acela primary? You know, what was that moment, do you think, for them to say - to call it quits?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: : You know, the Acela primary was - which, of course, was last week, was an area demographically, geographically where he could say, you know, that's not my people. Indiana, he couldn't say that. He put everything in Indiana.

I was with him there on Monday. He gave it everything he got. He had everything set up the way that he wanted it to be, so he really didn't have, frankly, any excuse. But to beat Donald Trump, if he's going to beat him anywhere, it would be there. He had a one-on-one race with him. It was a place where there's maybe more moderate than other Midwestern states, but he had plenty of conservative electoral voters to mine, and he didn't win. And he didn't win in a big, big way. And so, frankly, as somebody who has spent a lot of time with Ted Cruz, I was a little bit surprised that he did it so quickly. And the reason is -

BALDWIN: You were surprised, because of the delegate ground game, the out-maneuvering, all of that.

BASH: Well, and I'll - exactly. But more than that, mine was almost a little bit more about his personality and his sort of psychological ability to retain and take pain because I've watched him for so many years really be ridiculed in the Senate for doing what he thought was right morally and political and philosophically, you know, even a lot of his colleagues said he was just a demagogue. And he was really ostracized for doing that. And so he has been able to deflect a lot of that kind of stuff and sustain really an uphill battle for what he called the good of the party and the will of the people and conservatism. So I - I was surprised that he did it so quickly. But it was a big loss. And - and this is not like him going to Washington, where he's just kind of doing his thing in the Senate. It was all in. His wife was there. His kids were on the trail. They left school. They were being tutored on the road.

[14:05:51] BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: I mean this was a family affair and it was just clearly enough.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hey, Brooke, can I extend Dana's metaphor for a second.

BALDWIN: Please, please.

CHALIAN: It might be, yes, that Ted Cruz has an incredibly high political pain threshold, but you actually need to be alive politically in order to deal with pain. And Paul Manafort, Donald Trump's adviser, I thought had the best quote. You were asking about the Acela primary and Indiana, and I think let's use Paul Manafort's words because I think they proved accurate. The Acela primary was the nail in the coffin.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHALIAN: Indiana was when Ted Cruz realized he was in the coffin. And that is what happened with Indiana.

BALDWIN: David, let me stay with you. And, again, just reminding our viewers, we will take Secretary Hillary Clinton speaking one-on-one with Anderson Cooper. This is the first after, you know, yes, she lost Indiana, but she is doing quite well. They're obviously hoping to clinch in the next month or so, and she now knows essentially who she will be running against come the general election.

David Chalian, to you, just in terms of context before we take a break. I mean here we are, Donald Trump. I don't know if - watching him last night, did it almost seem to you he was - he was surprised? It was - it was very Trump-esque, quoting the polls. You know, no major pontificating on the country or the campaign. Ragtag group of, you know, analysts that he's been running with for a number of months. What did you make of that moment?

CHALIAN: Well, I don't think he was necessarily anticipating sort of the formality of the moment of becoming the quote/unquote presumptive nominee. That wasn't the kind of speech he wanted to give. He wanted to stick to what's been working for him. And although he I think clearly was holding back in some reserved way to not lash out at opponents, I think that was the biggest difference we've seen other nights. But clearly he wanted to sort of tick through the things that have been working for him, his poll numbers, the message.

I will tell you though, Brooke, what I heard last night more than anything else in that speech from Donald Trump was the message he is going to take to Hillary Clinton on the economy. He hit it over and over again. Our brand new CNN/ORC poll shows him beating her on the economy. It's the only issue of all the issues tested where he's ahead. And, guess what, that's the most important issue to voters. So that was my big takeaway from his speech last night.

He is - he - if Hillary Clinton has been running an economic message for the primary season dealing with Bernie Sanders on her left, how she's going to adjust to combat Donald Trump on his economic populism for the general election audience I think is one of the key things to watch.

BALDWIN: It's a great question and perhaps will be one tossed at her by Anderson minutes from now. Again, just a reminder to all of you tuning in, it's a huge hour for us here on CNN. Moments from now, Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton in her first one-on-one interview since Donald Trump became the presumptive nominee. That will happen next. We'll take it live, and we'll have a huge conversation out of it. Keep it right here. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:12:48] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Right now Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton with her very first one-on-one interview since Donald Trump became the presumptive nominee.

Let me turn to my colleague, Anderson Cooper, standing by in Chappaqua, New York.

Anderson, the floor is yours.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": Brooke, thanks very much.

Secretary Clinton, thanks very much for joining us.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good to talk to you.

COOPER: Just take us back to that - to last night, the moment Ted Cruz dropped out and you realized who the nominee in the Republican Party was going to be.

CLINTON: Well it seemed pretty clear for some time how it was going to turn out, but I also know what it's like to keep fighting to the end, because I did that in 2008. And something can always happen. But it didn't surprise me at all that it was over last night.

COOPER: Assuming you get the Democratic nomination -

CLINTON: Right.

COOPER: Are you ready for Donald Trump? I mean, he's already got an unflattering nickname for you. He's unlike any other candidate probably certainly you've ever run against, anybody's seen in a long time. CLINTON: Well, you know, Anderson, I've seen the presidency up close

from two different perspectives, and I think I know what it takes. And I don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like Donald Trump running our country. You know, Donald Trump has said it's OK for other countries to get nuclear weapons. I think that's just downright dangerous. He has said wages are too high. I think we need to have a raise for the American people, raise the minimum wage, get wages back going up. I think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that I can imagine, I think most women can imagine.

COOPER: He did walk that back.

CLINTON: Well, he's a loose cannon. I mean he's somebody who has said so many things. And I'm sure he'll be scrambling and his advisers will be scrambling, but he's already said all of these things. He says climate change is a Chinese hoax, and I think it's real and we've got to pull the world together to deal with it. So you can go down a long list, some of which he's tried to bob and weave a little bit, but I think it's a risk. I think he is a loose cannon and loose cannons tend to misfire.

COOPER: If he is a loose cannon, though, he's certainly willing to say things during a race against opponents, and we've seen this already, that a lot of candidates were not prepared for on the GOP side. Are you ready for that?

[14:15:09] CLINTON: Well, I've sort of been in the arena for 25 years, and I think nearly everything that can be thrown at somebody in politics and public life has come my way.

COOPER: You feel like you know how to run against him?

CLINTON: Oh, absolutely. But I'm not running against him. I'm running my own campaign. I'm running to become president, to really deal with the economy, get it working again, take on all the barriers that stand in the way of people of people getting ahead. I have a very clear mission in this campaign.

COOPER: But there were a lot of folks on the GOP side who said that they were going to be running on the issues as well and that wasn't - they weren't able to against Trump.

CLINTON: But, you know - well they maybe just don't - didn't have the experience. Maybe they just didn't want to take him on, on issues because they actually agreed with him. Everybody in that Republican primary didn't want to raise the minimum wage, don't believe equal pay is a problem, don't want to talk about climate change, have a lot of the same views. So they were really trapped. They couldn't - they're couldn't run a campaign on the issues that mattered to America, and I can, and I will.

COOPER: On - he talked about the economy last night and hitting an economic message that clearly he's going to echo going forward. He talked about your husband signing NAFTA, what he called perhaps the history - in the history of the world the single worst trade deal ever done. And according to the latest CNN polling out just today by 50 percent to 45 percent margin, voters said Trump would do a better job handling the economy than you would. I mean he's got an economic populist message which is appealing to people.

CLINTON: Yes, well, we'll have to go back and talk about the history. Twenty-three million new jobs in the 1990's. Incomes went up for everybody. If he wants to argue against peace and prosperity, he can absolutely do his best to make that case. I'm going to talk, though, about what we're going to do in the future, and I think that there are some lessons we can learn. The economy does better when we have a Democrat in the White House.

We saw the stark difference between my husband's presidency and George W. Bush, who went back to trickle-down economics, which is also what Donald Trump is advocating. And then we saw Barack Obama have to rescue the economy from the failed economic policies of the Republicans. So I'm more than happy to take that issue on, and I think that there is not only a lot of evidence on our side and certainly history on our side over the last 25 years, but any specifics that he has put out - you know, he makes these grand statements and grand accusations - at some point when you're running for president, you actually have to put a little meat on the bones. You've got to tell people what it is you're going to do and how you're going do it.

COOPER: He does run a different kind of campaign than anyone else, certainly on the GOP side. He makes himself more available to reporters. He calls in. I mean is that something you are going to start doing more of?

CLINTON: Oh, well, look, he did it and it worked for him and I think reporters now have a chance to ask some tougher questions. It's not enough to call in and give somebody a platform. It's now the time to make the tough decisions. And you've got to ask him, OK, so what exactly would you replace X, Y, and Z with? If you're going to be against trade agreements, how's that going to work? You know, I'm against bad trade agreements. I'm for, you know, fair and free trade. I voted against some of the trade agreements that came before me when I was actually a senator. So let's get to the specifics.

If you think wages are too high, how do you look Americans in the eye and say, hey, I know you haven't had a raise for 15 years, but I don't think you deserve one. If you're going to have a budget that slashes taxes on the wealthy and throws our economy and our federal budget into the worst downward spiral of debt, hey, tell us how that's going to work.

I think it's time to get serious. The man is the presumptive nominee. And, you know, being a loose cannon doesn't in any way protect him, I hope, from being asked the hard questions that he should have been asked during the whole primary process.

COOPER: Wolf Blitzer asked him today about how he's going to be running against you and whether he's going to sort of change his tone, be more presidential. I want to play that exchange with Wolf.

CLINTON: Uh-huh. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There was a little talk about, will he be presidential? We had 17 people, all smart. One by one, week after week, boom, boom, boom, gone, gone, gone. I don't maybe want to change so much. And I do want to use that same strategy for trade deals and I want to use that same - but I feel I'm a presidential person.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Is the same strategy that you used to get rid of the other Republican candidates, you want to use now against Hillary Clinton?

TRUMP: Well, we - we - I would say yes. I mean - and, again, a lot's going to depend on how they treat me. I mean if they treat me in a certain level, I'm not looking to do more. You know, you've seen I'm a counterpuncher more than anything else. I don't like - I don't really like hitting people first, because I don't know how - I just feel - I've always felt that I'm better, like certain boxers, they're better counterpunchers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He says he's a counterpuncher. How - how scorched earth is this race going to be?

CLINTON: You know he's the one who's making that decision, Anderson, not me. He's the one who's run the campaign insulting people, demeaning women, degrading people with disabilities, talking about keeping Muslims out of the country. He's the one who's been running that kind of very negative, aggressive, bullying campaign. He could choose to run whatever campaign he wants to run. I'm going to keep staying on the campaign I'm running.

[14:20:26] I have more than 3 million votes over Senator Sanders and I have 2 million votes over Donald Trump. I'm going to keep telling people what I will do as president and I'm going to keep being specific, because I think people want to know what you're going to do and they can hold you accountable that way.

COOPER: Elizabeth Warren tweeted out last night that Donald Trump has, quote, "built his campaign on racism, sexism, and xenophobia." Do you agree with that?

CLINTON: I think Elizabeth Warren's really smart.

COOPER: You agree with all those things?

CLINTON: I think that anybody who's listened to him and how he's talked certainly can draw that conclusion.

COOPER: Do you think he's a racist?

CLINTON: I'm going to let people judge for themselves, but I have the highest regard for Senator Warren. COOPER: Last night Trump touched on the coal situation in West

Virginia, saying that he'll get those miners back to work. Obviously, it was a reference to something you said back in March. You said, we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, a statement that you apologized for recently down in West Virginia saying it was totally out of context. Clearly Trump is going to say that you will say anything to any audience just to placate any audience that you happen to be in front of?

CLINTON: Well, no, that's just, you know, a broad misrepresentation. I've been very clear, we've got to make a transition to clean, renewable energy. I've also been very clear for this whole campaign that we can't do it in a way that totally leaves behind people who dug out the coal to turn on the lights and to power our factories. One hundred thousand coal miners in this country lost their lives in the 20th century. So I want people to pay attention to what we as a nation need to do to support them.

But the market is making this decision. The market has driven down the cost of coal. So you have companies going bankrupt. So what I'm offering is a $30 billion plan to really revitalize coal country, to provide support for coal miners and their families, and I think that is the least the country owes these brave people.

COOPER: There are Democrats who are just worried about you against Trump, that you're not ready for whatever he may throw at you, that he's - I mean he's brought up a lot of stuff about a lot of people that nobody could have predicted. He was quoting from "The National Enquirer" just yesterday. You know, there's - he's - he's made references to your marriage, to your husband. Are you prepared -

CLINTON: Well, he's not the first one, Anderson. I just can't - I can't say this often enough. If he wants to go back to the playbook of the 1990s, if he wants to follow in the footsteps of those who have tried to knock me down and take me out of the political arena, I'm more than happy to have him do that.

COOPER: You're ready for that?

CLINTON: Oh, please. I mean, look, this - this is - this is, to me, a classic case of a blustering, bullying guy who - who has knocked out of the way all of the Republicans because they were just dumbfounded. They didn't know how to deal with him and they couldn't take him on, on the issues because they basically agreed with him, and they didn't know how to counterpunch?

COOPER: Do you think they waited too long?

CLINTON: Oh, you'll have to ask them. I can't run their campaigns. They have to run their own. I can only tell you the campaign I'm going to run. And the campaign I'm going to run is about what we will do in the future. And I invite a lot of the Republicans and independents who I've been seeing on the campaign trail, who've been reaching out to me, I invite them to join with Democrats. Let's get on the American team. Let's get off the red or the blue team. Let's get on the American team. We've got some great opportunities ahead of us. I - I happen to

believe that America's best years can still be ahead of us. I have that confidence. I am optimistic. But it doesn't happen just by wishing for it or being a demagogue about it. It happens by rolling up our sleeves and getting to work in order to seize it.

COOPER: Did Trump - when you were a senator, did Trump ever engage you on substance? Did he - you know, he says he gave money for access? Did he ever ask you for favors?

CLINTON: Not that I recall, no. I don't recall that. I mean he has played all sides of the political arena. That - you know, that's his choice and he can explain it however he chooses. I've been very consistent about where I stand going back to when I started working as a lawyer for the Children's Defense Fund. I am going to do everything I can to even the odds against people who feel that the odds are stacked against them. I'm going to really give it my all, to give every person, particularly every child in this country, the chance to live up to his or her God-given potential.

[14:25:01] COOPER: Just finally, Senator Sanders is obviously taking issue with people calling you the presumptive nominee on the Democratic side. What do you say to his supporters? Should - should you be considered the presumptive nominee at this point?

CLINTON: Well, I'm not calling myself that. I know there are still some contests ahead and I respect Senator Sanders and whatever choices he make. And I really - I have a lot of empathy about this, Anderson. You know, I ran till the very end in 2008.

COOPER: You've been there. You know what it feels like.

CLINTON: And I won nine out of the last 12 contests. People forget that. I won Indiana. I won West Virginia. I won a lot of states. But I couldn't close the gap in pledged delegates. And the gap between me and Senator Sanders is far wider than it was between me and Senator Obama.

COOPER: So having been in his shoes, what do you say to him?

CLINTON: Well, I know what he said last week, which I really welcomed. He said that he will do everything he can to prevent Donald Trump from being president of the United States. He will work seven days a week. I'm going to really count on that because I want to unify the party. I'm certainly going to be reaching out to his supporters who have far more in common with me and my supporters than they do with Donald Trump and his campaign.

COOPER: And I know I said final, but just one more question. Donald Trump just talked about what he would look for in a vice president. Someone with congressional experience, that - to reach out to Congress. Obviously I'm not asking you who you would pick, but what qualities would you look for? Is there something that you would like to kind of - a space you would like to fill in?

CLINTON: Well, I think the most important quality is that this person could become president on literally on a moment's notice. There is no more important quality than that. And I intend to, you know, take that very seriously and find the person that I would have the confidence in to be a good partner with me, but most importantly to be a really good president for America.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, thank you very much.

CLINTON: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Brooke, let's go back to you.

BALDWIN: Anderson and Secretary Clinton, thank you both so, so much.

Lots to parse through here. Let me bring in my panel. I have chief national correspondent and host of "Inside Politics," John King, chief political correspondent Gloria Borger, former Obama adviser and CNN commentator Van Jones, and Republican strategies Doug High, former communications director with the Republican National Committee.

Wow, welcome to all of you.

And if I can, just off the top, I counted four references to Trump being a loose cannon. That was my first note. I don't know about the four of you. Let's go - let's go round robin. Ladies, first. Gloria Borger, thoughts?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, two words, loose cannon.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BORGER: Clearly somebody they are - they are going to portray as risky. And we saw that last night when John Podesta, her campaign chairman, used - used the phrase, he's too much of a risk. I think that - that, you know, we see the shape of the campaign taking place. Not only loose cannon, not only risky, but put meat on the bones of his policy proposals. And I think you're going to - you're going to - and she's also challenged reporters to ask him tougher questions if he's going to be - if he's going to be so available to us. So she's kind of laid it all out there for Anderson.

BALDWIN: John King, you're next. What jumped out at you?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it was interesting. Anderson put on the table one of the deficits for Hillary Clinton in our new poll. Most of our poll is good news for Hillary Clinton. She starts - if you think this is a Clinton/Trump race, she starts with an advantage and she starts with a lead, but -

BALDWIN: The economy.

KING: She trails when it comes to issue number one, the economy. And Anderson put that on the table. I think it was interesting how she did it. Donald Trump himself, if you go back to look at our Larry King files, is on record saying the economy does better under Democrats, and Hillary Clinton drove right up that road saying, I'll take the 23 million jobs under my husband Bill Clinton, I'll take the economic recovery under Barack Obama and I'll say that George W. Bush ruined the economy and that's where Donald Trump is.

Now, she did have a - she tried to answer on trade. Trade has been one of Bernie Sanders' big issues and one of Donald Trump's big issues and Hillary Clinton, frankly, has some issues with her own husband's legacy on that issue. But it was very clear, she - some people don't like her laugh, but she laughed a couple of times on purpose to try to say, economic debate, bring it on. Personal debate about Bill Clinton, bring it on. Debate about me and the '90s, bring it on. Trying to show that she's, a, Brooke, pretty clear. She's thought for a while about a race against Donald Trump and she's trying to convince not only Republicans and independents but especially Democrats she's ready for it.

BALDWIN: Mr. Jones, to you?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, what struck me was, this was a person who is making a particular bet on the character of the American people. She - she is - she's - listen, I am going to stay substantive. I am not going to get into these shenanigans. And she says at some point you've got to answer these questions. You've got to be more serious.

[14:29:44] Now, there's no actual evidence that Donald Trump is going to have to answer any serious questions. People do ask him hard questions. He just is a master at answering the way that he wants to. But this is a very interesting, I think, position that she is taking. She thinks that when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, when all the hype is over and all the sound bites and all the big hands and the little hands, that people are going to go into that booth and make a decision based on who you can trust to be a steady hand, not a loose cannon but a steady hand, and who actually has real answers.