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Second Person Dies After Shootings In Maryland; Senator Graham: Won't Vote For Trump Or Clinton. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 06, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of an abundance of caution, I believe. I don't speak for the schools. They make that decision but I believe just out of an abundance of caution they have decided to go with that decision. Again, as I stated earlier, it is raining. Children wouldn't be outside anyway. So we're continuing to communicate with them and they are with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul, can you --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) not on lockdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) between the person of interest and the person still here. Do you have any information that indicates anything of that description such as body armor (inaudible) can you clear that up for us because (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't -- I can't right now. I'm not able to confirm that right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us exactly as far as you know what transpired in this parking lot? And if you know, what transpired outside the Giant in Aspen Hill? What exactly happened here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators are still looking, interviewing the witnesses as well as the two remaining victims who are alive. And I should state that the male is in critical or grave condition and the female from this location has nonlife threatening. Two more questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened in the parking lot involved a carjacking?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Currently a lead on the suspect's whereabouts right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is something that investigators would be doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) public right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something like faced almost a decade ago with the sniper in Montgomery County that someone is randomly going around doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's certainly a possibility but there are differences here that I can't get into. The next briefing will be in about an hour. I appreciate your patience and due diligence in only getting out accurate information to the community. Thank you.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We wanted to jump in that. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for watching CNN. The captain there at Montgomery County, Maryland, suburban Washington.

And law enforcement trying to connect the dots essentially of multiple shootings over the course of the past two different days. Two people have died, three separate shootings.

One happened yesterday outside of a high school in a parking lot. Two today, one outside a Montgomery County mall and one near the Giant supermarket chain. Again, two people killed.

The big question, could they be related? It sounds like from this police captain that they believe, yes indeed, they could be. The issue is where's the person doing this?

Let me bring in CNN justice correspondent, Evan Perez and also with us CNN law enforcement analyst, Art Roderick. So Evan, obviously the question, where is the shooter? What jumped out at me is they do believe all of this is related.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Brooke. Now they believe he is responsible for six shootings in all, the shooting of six people in all and now three people dead. Two today, one is a male who tried to come to the -- one of the two people who tried to come to the aid of someone outside the Montgomery mall.

There is at the Montgomery mall three people shot. One male is dead. Another male is in critical condition and a female is nonlife threatening injuries according to the police.

There was second shooting about 40 minutes after the first shooting at a Giant food supermarket, which is also in that same area in Bethesda, Potomac area in Maryland and in that, a female was shot and she is now dead.

The shooting yesterday occurred at about 4:00 p.m. just outside of a high school in Greenbelt, Maryland. According to the police, Eulalio Tordil (ph) is the suspect, and approached his estranged way, Gladys, there picking up her kids.

He approached her. Someone tried to intervene, stop him. He shot that person and then killed her. Now we have six people shot in all in these three different incidents all within 24 hours. They're doing an urgent manhunt.

This man we should also add is a federal officer, a federal police officer who works for the Federal Protective Service, a part of the Department of Homeland Security. According to the Homeland Security Department, they put him on administrative leave after he was subject to some kind of protective order. They removed his service weapon and put him on administrative leave during this period. This occurred in March -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. So all these different details. Some seemingly unrelated. Perhaps the overall gist, Art, is that the shootings are indeed related. What do you make of all of this?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I mean, from purely a law enforcement perspective, you have to assume that all these shootings are related and then eliminate them from that point forward.

What we have here is a federal protective officer who's basically his professional and personal life sounds like it was spiraling downward.

[14:05:08]And a lot of -- what happens to a lot of law enforcement officers is when they get suspended, they lose their gun, they lose their badge.

There's a loss of status among peers and a lot of times it puts them on the over and it sounds like that's what's occurred here.

What's really scary about is not only gone out and shot and killed family members or individuals that he's related to, but also, the public who's come to the aid of those individuals.

So this is a very serious, serious case. You have to assume the extreme here and think he has a bullet-proof vest. He's probably wearing it.

There's very good possibility that he might have long arms, which means he can reach out and shoot law enforcement officers responding or the general public from the long way away. This case is really tense at this point.

And I'm sure not only do you have Montgomery County Police involved but FBI, U.S. Marshals, ATF, the alphabet soup of federal law enforcement agencies responding to this location to help Montgomery County Police out.

BALDWIN: And even though, you know, the snipers from years ago, you think about what happened and how it had everyone in Washington on edge for days and days, this is nothing like that, but at the same time, people I'm sure their minds jump straight back to what that felt like.

Evan Perez, thank you so much. As soon as you get more information from Montgomery County Police, we'll get that. Art Roderick, thank you as always for your law enforcement analysis.

RODERICK: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's move on from the Washington, D.C. area and drop a political bombshell. This may be the ground swell the Republican Party has been dreading. Now a party elder, a conservative powerhouse, announcing he will not vote for Donald Trump.

And that's not all. He also says he's not voting for Hillary Clinton. He may not vote at all for the next president of the United States. This is a sitting senator, folks.

South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, one-time Trump rival for the Republican nomination just told my colleague, Dana Bash, in an interview, he is so disappointed with the presumptive Republican nominee he will possibly abandon the civic duty upon which he's built his career.

Remember this comes one day after the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Paul Ryan said he's quote/unquote "just not ready to support Mr. Trump."

Now a number of Republicans in the party are indeed ready to support Donald Trump. Former Vice President Dick Cheney just told CNN Trump has his vote. But this bombshell coming from Senator Graham will certainly have political fallout.

The most visible break yet with the party's presumptive nominee. Let's get straight to the woman who helped break the news, our own chief political correspondent, Dana Bash. Dana Bash, what exactly did he tell you?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot, Brooke, a lot. But the bottom line and you laid it out is that he is just so unhappy with the choices. He is not going to vote for either of them. And I will let you listen to him explain what exactly he's going to do when he goes into the voting booth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Senator Graham, you're announcing here that you won't vote for either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. You are a dyed in the wool Republican. Why can't you get on board with your party's nominee?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it's pretty easy to say no to Hillary because I think she's a third term of Barack Obama. I just don't believe Donald Trump is a reliable conservative Republican.

Good luck with Paul Ryan trying to find a conservative agenda with this guy. I don't think he has the temperament or judgment to be commander-in-chief. A lot of colleagues will vote for him enthusiastically. Some hold their nose. I can't go there with Donald.

BASH: But, Senator, Republican voters chose Donald Trump over you and 15 --

GRAHAM: Absolutely.

BASH: -- other Republican candidates for president. So are you the one out of step with your party? GRAHAM: Could be. I would have supported all 16 except for the Donald. Rand Paul and I are on opposite poles when it comes to foreign policy. I'd supported Rand Paul because I think he is conservative.

Ted Cruz and I have monumental differences at time. I was going to support Ted. I just don't think Donald Trump is a reliable conservative Republican and quite frankly he lost me when he said my friend, John McCain, was a loser because he was captured as a POW.

He lost me when he accused George W. Bush of lying to the American people about the Iraq war and he thinks Putin's a good guy. So I just can't go there. I respect people who can.

To Donald Trump, congratulations. You did a hell of a thing. You bet me and everybody else. I believe the Republican Party has been conned here and this guy is not a reliable Conservative Republican.

BASH: You know, another one of Donald Trump's opponents who was quite critical of Trump was former Texas Governor Rick Perry. He told me yesterday, Senator, that he believes in the process.

[14:10:06]And he said the process has said Donald Trump will be our nominee and I'm going to support him and help him and do what I can. Why is he wrong?

GRAHAM: Well, I don't think he's wrong. I think that's what Rick Perry feels like he should do. I'm just doing what Lindsey Graham feels like he should do. I like Rick Perry. I think Rick Perry has been a great governor.

I have a hard time supporting somebody who claims that Ted Cruz's dad was associated with Lee Harvey Oswald and involved in the Kennedy assassination.

I have a hard time supporting somebody for president who spent thousands of dollars of their own money trying to find out if President Obama was born in Kenya versus Hawaii. I think that's crazy.

I'm glad we're having the convention in Cleveland not Area 51. I think Donald Trump is going to places where very few people have gone and I'm not going with him.

BASH: Now, House Speaker Paul Ryan told CNN yesterday as I know you've heard that he is withholding support for Trump but not ruling it out.

GRAHAM: Yes.

BASH: Why are you flatly ruling it out? Do you actually think -- take a step back. Do you think there's no way that Donald Trump could change in any way that would get your support and unify the Republican Party?

GRAHAM: Well, if he said tomorrow that he's now convinced that Ted Cruz's dad had nothing to do with killing President Kennedy and that President Obama was born in Hawaii that would be a step in the right direction. I believe the temperament and judgment is not sufficient to be commander-in-chief of the finest fighting force in the world.

BASH: Do you think he has any ability to prove you wrong?

GRAHAM: Yes. He can win. Maybe he wins. And I promise you this, if he becomes president of the United States, I will do everything I can to help President Trump or President Clinton.

Unfortunately, this is a race to the bottom in 2016. The two most unpopular people in modern history. I think we have a slightly faster car and winning the race to the bottom.

But when it's over, clearly I ran and I lost, when it's over I will help President Trump or President Clinton because they're going to need all the help they can get. But I'm not going where Donald Trump is taking the party.

I don't believe Trump-ism is conservatism. I just can't go there and I respect people who will go there. Some of my best friends will go there.

BASH: OK. So what will you do? You go into the voting booth the first Tuesday in November. Are you going -- are you even going to go vote?

GRAHAM: I'm definitely voting. I'm all in for Tim Scott. Here's one thing Donald Trump has done. He's united the party around the idea that we need to all vote to protect the Republican majorities in the House and Senate.

If there was ever a time for the country to have conservative leadership in the House and the Senate. It will be in 2017 because no matter who wins the president, Clinton or Trump, we are going to need some rational people up there putting brakes on some of these very bad ideas.

BASH: So what box will you check for the presidency or will you write somebody in? What do you plan to do? Obviously you have thought this through. If there's no none of the above on the ballot.

GRAHAM: Right. I may just pass or write somebody in. I don't know. I'm enthusiastically behind the South Carolina Republican team and all over the country helping people if they like to try to hold the House and the Senate.

But I just really do not believe that Donald Trump has the temperament and judgment to be commander-in-chief. I don't think he's a reliable Republican conservative. That's just my opinion. I lost to him. Congratulations to Donald.

I hope he and Paul can find a common agenda, but what I hear from Donald Trump is the furthest thing from Republican conservatism, domestically and on foreign policy I've ever heard. So we'll see what happens. BASH: Dick Cheney is apparently now going to endorse Donald Trump. Does that surprise you?

GRAHAM: A little bit. But that's great. You know? Dick Cheney is a great man. We see the world a lot alike when it comes to foreign policy. I can understand why people want to support the nominee of the Republican Party.

I would like to be able to do that but I just can't. And you know, maybe I'm the outlier here, probably am. There will be Democrats who can't support Hillary Clinton and some or enthusiastically.

BASH: Teddy Roosevelt just about 100 years ago left the Republican Party and ran as a Bull Moose candidate.

GRAHAM: Right.

BASH: Is that a path that you or somebody else should take now?

GRAHAM: Absolutely not. I'm going to --

BASH: No third party.

GRAHAM: No way. I would advise people not to go down that road. Here's what I'm going to do. I'll support the Republican team every level, but president and then help the next president whoever he or she may be and try rebuild a Republican Party that can actually win the White House.

Eating a taco is probably not going to fix the problems we have with Hispanics. I think embracing Donald Trump is embracing demographic death.

[14:15:03]BASH: Senator, one last question, I mean, what you're describing is even more evidence of a really broken and divided Republican Party.

GRAHAM: Yes, absolutely.

BASH: Do you think that it is reparable at this point?

GRAHAM: Yes. Absolutely. Trumpism is not conservatism and that will be obvious to many people. I hope Paul Ryan can come up with a common agenda for him and Donald Trump to unite the party.

I don't believe his view of trade, his view of domestic policy, his foreign policy is Trumpism not conservatism. Yes, I think the best days of the Republican Party lie ahead if we can reunite the people who vote for Trump and the people who don't vote for Trump are still Republicans.

I would have supported Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. I just can't go where Donald Trump takes the party and the country. I'm sorry I can't. I respect those who will go there.

And to Donald Trump, you did an amazing thing and you have gotten a lot of people frustrated with government on your side. They have every reason to be frustrated with the system, but I can't go where Mr. Trump takes us.

BASH: As I say thank you, will we see you in Cleveland at the convention or not?

GRAHAM: You will not see me there. There's no reason for me to go to the convention. I hope everybody has a good time. I think it would be one hell of a party. I'm not glad it's in Cleveland and not Area 51.

I just wish the nominee of the Republican Party would come to grips with the idea that Ted Cruz's dad had nothing to do with killing Kennedy. That would be a good start.

BASH: Senator Graham, thank you very much for you time. Appreciate it.

GRAHAM: Thank you! Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: That's huge. Dana Bash, huge interview. Trademark humor of Area 51 to tacos to very serious excellent answers on questions of a third party ticket, on what he will do when he steps in the voting booth in November.

So much more to parse through. We have a lot to get to. Don't move a muscle. We have an entire panel standing by. What it means for the Republican Party and the country moving ahead after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:11]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You heard Dana Bash's interview with sitting South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham. The headline is this, he will not be voting in good conscience for any president this upcoming general election.

Let me bring Dana Bash back in. I also want to bring our panel, CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson, Healy Baumgardner, the senior press representative for the Trump campaign, and Kevin Sheridan, the former senior adviser for Mitt Romney's campaign and former spokesman for the Republican National Committee.

So welcome to all of you. Dana Bash, let me just loop back to you. You know, in your entire career, in your many years in Washington as a journalist, have you ever heard of a powerful sitting senator say he's not voting for president?

BASH: No. Next question -- I mean, no, not at all.

BALDWIN: No.

BASH: Obviously, you know, under -- with the under girth of that is all of the reasons why not. The Republican Party is being conned. The fact that, you know, he argued when it came to demographics he believes that it's going to kill the Republican Party.

He said you can't reach Hispanics by eating a taco. The list goes on and on. It's not a secret that Lindsey Graham is not a fan of Donald Trump and that's probably the understatement of the year.

But you know what? Rick Perry was the first person to say that Donald Trump was a cancer on conservatism and he's saying that he is going to support Donald Trump.

So again, this is -- the latest bit of evidence and we're going to probably continue to see it of how deep and unbelievable the divide is in the Republican Party.

BALDWIN: So, there's that. We're getting names of folks to go to the convention and won't and would endorse or consider endorsing. Healy, now you hear the news, Senator Graham is not voting for your -- well, really, presumptive nominee, period. Do you care?

HEALY BAUMGARDNER, SENIOR PRESS REPRESENTATIVE, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I think what this is, is it's symbolic of how out of touch --

BALDWIN: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Do you care?

BAUMGARDNER: Well, I mean, I think it's a problem, yes. I think that Senator Graham should unite behind the movement, the party. Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee. He's the only one who can and will defeat Hillary Clinton in November. So yes, I don't think that he should get on board and be supportive in this effort, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Kevin, what do you think?

KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT: I mean, it is not just up to the part of the party that didn't support Trump to unite out of, you know, for no reason. Donald Trump needs to do some real outreach to these Republicans who have real concerns about his temperament.

They have concerns about his policies and, you know, there's a -- the biggest chunk of those are mostly undecided right now and they can probably some of them could be persuaded and some will never vote for Trump but some could. Will he attack Lindsey Graham? Call him a loser? I think, you know, that could happen today.

BALDWIN: I don't have his Twitter feed on speed dial, but it will be interesting to see that nonetheless. To follow up quickly, what about the significance that former Vice President Dick Cheney will endorse him?

SHERIDAN: I think you see people making a personal choice on both sides of this and Dick Cheney is a respected figure in the party still. He made the call. Little bit surprised the foreign policy lines up with Donald Trump's, but because they seem to be on opposite Sides of everything on foreign policy but a personal choice and I think wanting to beat Hillary Clinton so -- BALDWIN: I want to move on in a second to get to the next piece,

which is Paul Ryan who, Kevin, I know you know quite well, in the last election.

[14:25:00] Nia, I want to hear you voice on the significance of you know, Senator Graham not voting for a president. How the Republican Party feels forward. I feel like the next step is different names coming forward and maybe to Kevin's point, a personal choice and some saying yes to Trump and no.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Some saying no. Some saying where's the third party option? I thought Lindsey Graham's interview, remarkable. Dana, fantastic job with it. An underlying point he seemed to be making was not just the idea he is not a real Republican, Donald Trump doesn't represent Republican policies.

But also he doesn't represent Republican Party values or even American values in some ways. There seems to be a sort of underlying effort to paint Donald Trump as so outside the bounds of sort of just acceptability.

Not only in just the political realm but just in terms of social decorum. He kept talking about the birtherism and Area 51 and he kept going back to Donald Trump talking about Ted Cruz's father and alleging that he --

BALDWIN: Tabloid issue.

HENDERSON: So that was -- you know, it was sort of an echo of what we heard from President Obama, too, essentially saying that Donald Trump isn't a serious figure and also I think highlights the argument that you see from Democrats and some of these ads.

That they have out from Donald Trump where he's saying things like, you know, it is hard for a woman to be a 10 if she is flat chested and the kind of things one of the arguments is that Donald Trump can pivot beyond those.

And see an effort now on the one hand by some of these Republicans and certainly from Democrats who sort of freeze frame him right now and really kind of tattoo him with some of the more outside the bounds things that he said.

BALDWIN: What about the next huge headline, Jake Tapper's interview with the Speaker of the House Paul Ryan saying he hopes to back Trump. He is not ready to endorse him just yet. He wants to be part of this unifying process. So, Kevin, you know, since you know the speaker so well, what do you think would get him to a yes on Trump?

SHERIDAN: I think Speaker Ryan is concerned about policy, also concerned about the tone. He wants to protect his majority in the House. As well as the Senate that we're defending and if, you know, if there's any way to come on board I think he will.

But, you know, we will have to see how Donald Trump responds, see how the meeting goes and the public tone is. If he continues to, you know, engage in conspiracy theories and, you know, mock fellow Republicans and, you know, keep a vicious tone, you know, I think that's hard for him to do. We'll see. That's up to the speaker to decide.

BALDWIN: Dana, how much do you think this is like for Paul Ryan political jujitsu, right? Like he has the core beliefs and talking about Muslim ban is not OK with him and his conservative values. You know, leverage to Kevin's point. You know, thinking of the Republicans down ballot, can you talk me through what he's probably weighing?

BASH: All of the above. Look. My impression and Kevin knows the speaker quite well and you can speak to this, but my impression is that, you know, horrors. He went with his gut. You know? I don't think I'm being gullible in believing that.

That he just -- he wasn't expecting this. He was expecting to have a contested convention or at least having another month to figure this out and he just said you know what? I'm not ready to do this.

The reasons that he did that or the by-product of that I should say were giving leverage and giving space to Republicans in the House and so on and so forth. But, you know, I think that that's it.

But having said all that, he went with his gut, I also think that if he thought that he was going to pay a huge political price within his own caucus, that there was so much of a groundswell of support within the House GOP it would have been harder for him to do. He is not just Paul Ryan. He is the House speaker, the leader of the party and the caucus.

BALDWIN: This is, Healy and Kevin, I'm going to ask you about this. So we just got this -- having -- sounds like the speaker of the House will be meeting with Donald Trump -- guys, get in my ear. Yes, Thursday. They will be meeting next Thursday.

Healy, from the Trump camp perspective, what do you think this meeting will entail? Where might Mr. Trump be willing the move on policy to finally get that yes from the House speaker?

BAUMGARDNER: Well, you know, I can't speculate how that meeting will go or what things --

BALDWIN: What are they looking for, though, you're on the inside.

BAUMGARDNER: You know, I think that at this juncture the most important thing is for us to unify and I think that that's Mr. Trump's goal.

[14:30:02] I mean, look, he has energized the Republican base, the conservative movement. Americans are speaking and they're speaking loudly. And I think that, you know, the goal now is to unite so we can take the White House in November.