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Cops to Probe Boys Fall into Gorilla Pit; Trump Speaking Out Against Trump University Judge Could Have Criminal Consequences; California Governor Endorses Clinton, Will Sanders be V.P Pick. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired May 31, 2016 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maybe look at some video and find out exactly what happened. All we know is what we have seen in the short time frame of video and sure police will dig deeper -- Brooke?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We sat here, Joey Jackson, on the show for 45 minutes, listened, hung on every word of the zoo director there in Cincinnati. He was saying we've had it for 38 years, never had issues.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No breach.
BALDWIN: Looking into it now. And he even said, do you know 3-year- olds? Like, this is what happens when you blink and a 3-year-old is climbing up somewhere and dropping over. What would the charges even be?
JACKSON: OK. Well, absolutely, there needs to be an investigation, and it certainly is good they're doing one so they can find out exactly how it can happen, not only relating to what happened here, tragic, the gorilla's dead, and the child could have been dead, too, but preventing it in the future.
BALDWIN: Right.
JACKSON: So if you're looking at charging the parents, you could theoretically go after them for endangering -- an endangering charge of the child, them being negligent, not exercising a reasonable duty of care overseeing their child. But the zoo director -- in theory, yes, you can do it. The zoo director saying that, it's true. Every parent knows, in an instance, in a split second, your child is in the street. Your child is, you know, has his finger in a plug. Your child is anywhere and everywhere. And so, if you're looking at garden-variety negligence, that's not criminal. If you're looking at gross negligence, criminal negligence, it's different.
Let's just briefly look at the distinction. There's negligence every day. People get in car accidents every day. Kids get hit by cars every day. This doesn't happen every day. And the issue is, what happened here? But from a criminal negligence perspective, did you allow the child to go wondering off while you were eating popcorn? Was the child on his own and roaming around? Or did the child do what children do? There's a massive outcry, absolutely, and there should be, because it
could have been prevented. But you have to also wonder how did the child get down there? Since 1978, there's been no breach, and a first breach. And you have to wonder. Did he go underneath a barrier? If so, was it constructed properly? Did he climb over something else? They're saying he climb over --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Climbed over something and went through a brush and dropped off the ledge into the water.
JACKSON: Exactly. With respect to the design, you want to look at that, too. But when you start talking about criminality because parents might have, you know, took their eyes off of their child for a moment, it's a big stretch. Theoretically, can you do it? Yes. Practically speaking, will they or should they do that? That's an entirely different matter.
BALDWIN: I keep thinking about the mother, the family, what more do we not know? Apparently, they want their privacy, and not hearing from them yet.
Joey Jackson, thank you very much.
JACKSON: Thanks.
Jessica for us at the zoo. Thank you, Jessica. The police department, rather. Thank you so much.
Coming up next, any moment, a judge will be releasing the internal playbooks, they're calling them, from Trump University at the center of this lawsuit. Donald Trump once again blasted that judge today. And my next guest says Trump may have broken a law. We'll look into that.
Also, Hillary Clinton gets a surprising endorsement from someone who, once upon a time, went toe-to-toe with her husband, and someone that wanted to be president, as well, during a heated battle on the debate stage. Will it matter? Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:37:28] BALDWIN: Donald Trump didn't only declare a war on the media today, he also escalated the battle with the federal judge over a case of Trump University. Students paid as much as $35,000 to attend classes at the now-defunct school and former students filed this lawsuit claiming the classes were a fraud. Judge Gonzalo Curial, today, is due to unseal these internal documents that are supposed to shed light on how Trump University did business. The move comes as Trump took an opportunity to rip into the judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The judge has been very unfair, has not done a good job. He's been a very bad judge. He's been very unfair. And I'll win the Trump University case. I already am, as far as I'm concerned, but I will win the Trump University case. This is -- because I don't care. Because you know what? Why antagonist? Because I don't care. I have a judge that's very, very unfair.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why?
TRUMP: You will see it in court documents. I have a judge that's very, very unfair. He knows he's unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let me bring in Charles Geyh, a law professor at Indiana University and a legal ethics expert; and also David Lazarus, a reporter for "Los Angeles Times," that attended a seminar of Trump University seminar some years ago.
Gentlemen, nice to have you on.
Charles, first, your perspective. I understand that you say Trump speaking out against this federal judge could have criminal consequences. How do you mean?
CHARLES GEYH, LAW PROFESSOR, MAURER SCHOOL OF LAW, INDIANA UNIVERSITY & LEGAL ETHICS EXPERT: Well, what I mean is that judges have a statutory power and inherent power to maintain the integrity of court proceedings, and that includes the conduct of parties outside of court if they're impugning the integrity of the proceedings. And it's one thing to accuse the judge of being unfair, as in the clip before, but he went before that originally and accused the judge of being a hater because the judge was -- I mean, the reasons given, the judge is Mexican, the judge was an Obama appointee, because he made rulings with which Donald Trump disagreed, and potentially contemptuous conduct. I don't think that's a likely route the judge will go. He has gone a different route and for good reason, and technically I think something that contempt-worthy of conversation and not likely to materialize unless things degenerate further.
BALDWIN: OK. As we wait for the documents, David, let's pivot to you. I read back to your 2007 The "L.A. Times" piece. You go, you attend the free Trump University seminar to see how you and others could cash in on this subprime mortgage mess and maybe make some money, or I believe millions were promised, right, from foreclosures. First, just tell me, how was it?
[14:40:06] DAVID LAZARUS, REPORTER, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, it's basically a two-hour sales pitch. In the local press, he was advertising that you could make millions in the foreclosure market, and that sounds attractive. I went to this Pasadena Hotel, attended it and, turns out that you're not getting any priceless information that's advertised. In fact, what you are being told, if you want to make millions in the foreclosure market, is buy low, sell high, which isn't exactly a news flash when it comes to real estate. Moreover, I talked to experts who say, look, you get skinned in the foreclosure market if you don't know what you're doing. This is not for amateurs. And I think that's what a lot of plaintiffs in the Trump University case are saying was we weren't given the tools we need to do this.
BALDWIN: And as a result of your column in the paper, who did you hear from?
LAZARUS: Well, I mean, after I exposed the fact it was a sales pitch for a $1,500 course, I heard from Donald Trump, who called me up to say, first of all, I'm a nasty guy, I'm a third-rate reporter. My editor says I'm a second-rate reporter, thank you very much. Moreover, he'll see me in court for all the inaccurate and libel information. And then he contacted my editor to say he should fire me because I bring nothing but bad thing to the "L.A. Times," nothing but bad things to the journalism profession, and kind of left it at that, showing I think just how thin skinned he was then, which is pretty much the same as how thin skinned he is now, as we've been seeing today.
BALDWIN: You are obviously doing OK because you're still holding down the fort at "L.A. Times." But I wanted to talk to you about your experience in '07.
And, Charles, back to you, from a legal perspective, this federal judge, he can't comment on the case. It is pending before him. You know, if this doesn't go in contempt, as that's a maybe, maybe a possibility, what can he do, if anything?
GEYH: Well, what he has done is, you know, unseal the documents that would otherwise be sealed because the integrity of the proceedings are called into question. In other words, Mr. Trump is arguing that there is no "there" there to the lawsuit and frivolous and that it was only because of a biased judge that it is proceeding to trial. What the judge has done is nothing more than say there's enough to this case to let Mr. Trump be tried by a jury of his peers. That's all that's happened. And one way of dealing with this question without the judge weighing in himself is for him to unseal the documents and let the press and public see what those documents say and, you know, draw their own conclusions as to whether there's something to the plaintiff's allegations.
BALDWIN: So, as Trump has the right, if he feels some sort of bias to express that, and the response being the unsealing of the documents and the public then seeing, as I imagine the judge is hoping, there's no bias whatsoever, yes?
GEYH: I think that's basically right, yes. He has a constitutional right to express his opposition or disagreement with the court's rulings and I think to say that he thinks the court's decisions were unfair. He went beyond that. I think it, you know -- two days ago, describing the judge as a hater is stronger than that. And you know, on the strength of the allegations that the judge opened these records up and said, yeah, look at them, see what they say. This is why I did what I did.
BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah.
Final question, David, you know, what could come of this class-action lawsuit that could at all impact the presidential race, do you think?
LAZARUS: Well, I think the biggest thing is allegation of fraud. This would be the first time that a presidential candidate had actually faced not just an allegation of fraud but, if convicted, would be found to have been a bad actor in the business world. And since Donald Trump's entire claim to fame in the race is a master deal maker and as a master businessman, the idea that he could be found liable for fraudulent activity would have real resignation in the campaign.
BALDWIN: David Lazarus and Charles Geyh, thank you so much to both of you.
LAZARUS: Thank you.
[14:44:21]BALDWIN: Coming up next, as Hillary Clinton is shifting her strategy, turning her attention to California, should she, would she consider Bernie Sanders as her running mate? We'll explore that.
Plus, Senator Sanders takes in game seven of the NBA playoffs. Hear why he says what happened there is an omen for his campaign?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: One week before his state offers the largest delegate prize, California Governor Jerry Brown endorsing Hillary Clinton. In the first line of the statement, he makes clear his support is not just about propelling her but preventing a Trump presidency. Quoting the California governor here now, "I believe this is the only path forward to win the presidency and stop the dangerous candidacy of Donald Trump." He goes on, "This is no time for Democrats to keep fighting each other."
And Jerry Brown knows a thing or two about party-infighting. He ran against Bill Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination some 24 years ago.
We went to the archives. Remember this debate exchange?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But you ought to be ashamed of yourself for jumping on my wife. You're not worth being on the same platform --
(CROSSTALK)
JERRY BROWN, (D), CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tell you something, Mr. Clinton.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Don't try to escape it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Ralph Nader called me this afternoon.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: He read me the article from "The Washington Post."
CLINTON: Does that make it true?
BROWN: I was shocked by it. I was shocked be it because I don't think someone --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: Hey, I get time.
BROWN: -- should be funneling money --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED DEBATE MODERATOR: Governor Clinton, you were poking your finger at him.
It's your turn, Governor.
CLINTON: Well, Jerry comes here with his family wealth and his $1,500 suit and makes a lying accusation about my wife. I never --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: "The Washington Post."
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: That doesn't make it true.
BROWN: Are you saying they lied?
CLINTON: I'm saying that I never funneled any money to my wife's law firm, never.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:50:12] BALDWIN: That was 1992. Here we are today.
Mr. David Chalian with me.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: So good!
BALDWIN: So good, right?
CHALIAN: Yes.
BALDWIN: My, how paths are re-crossing here in 2016. Talk a little bit about that, you know, fight in '92, and then flash forward to today's endorsement and how important it is.
CHALIAN: Yeah, well, even Jerry Brown, in his statement, Brooke, today said he sort of was -- he envisioned himself as the Bernie Sanders candidate back in the '92 race. Bill Clinton was running as a much more centrist candidate, a new third way of doing things in the Democratic Party, and actually trying to shed the image of the more liberal left progressive wing that he felt sort of hampered the Democratic Party at the time. That is completely different from what we're seeing now where Hillary Clinton, as you know, has moved left in the nomination race, largely due to where the party is, but also the pressure applied by Sanders. And Jerry Brown gave Sanders credit and said he's ran a very impressive campaign. But then he got on board with where Hillary Clinton's message has been for a couple of weeks, which is the stopping of Donald Trump, has become the thrust of her campaign message. She's focused on the general election, even while these Democratic contests go on. And Jerry Brown says I'm buying that argument. As impressed as I am with Sanders, she will be the nominee, the general election has begun, and he is trying to rally Democrats to the cause to say we have to beat Donald Trump.
BALDWIN: Let's take about the V.P. Hillary Clinton will likely clinch the before the California polls close on Tuesday. And Senator Sanders recently warning her not to select a moderate on the ticket. Here he was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I), VERMONT & DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would hope if I am not the nominee, that the vice presidential candidate will not be from wall street, will be somebody with a history of standing up and fighting for working families, taking on the drug companies whose greed is doing so much harm, taking on wall street, taking on Corporate America, and fight for a government that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHALIAN: Oh.
BALDWIN: Is there an argument -- I know -- to be made if he's still despite what happens in California or because of what happens in California, he goes through Philadelphia, is there an argument to be made that Hillary Clinton should ask Senator Sanders to be on her ticket?
CHALIAN: There's an argument to be made, and listening to the description Bernie Sanders gave there of who he thinks should be the running mate, if he is not the nominee, that sounded a lot like Bernie Sanders.
BALDWIN: Bernie Sanders.
CHALIAN: Maybe Elizabeth Warren. There is going to be a sort of reckoning in the Democratic Party. We saw it after the Clinton-Obama race eight years ago. The Democratic party will wake up to a whole new world on Wednesday morning, including Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, because she is likely to have gone over the top and been the nominee at that point, all but the voting on the convention floor, and at that point, she has said I'm prepared the reach out to him. What's that look like? Might that reaching out to Bernie Sanders and
his supporters feel so important to what she has to do to defeat Donald Trump and rises to the level of giving consideration to putting Sanders on the ticket? I think that's unlikely. I think if she feels the need to really bring that wing of the party on board, that it might be more in the name of Elizabeth Warren than Bernie Sanders. Nonetheless, it's going to be very important for us to watch Hillary Clinton does that outreach and whether or not Bernie Sanders helps his supporters accept that outreach, and that's going to be a very key dance to watch starting next Wednesday morning.
BALDWIN: Would there be a Kumbaya in New Hampshire, ala, '08 or not?
David Chalian, thank you very much.
CHALIAN: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, Donald Trump, you've seen this today? Taking on the media, calling reporters dishonest, sleazy, disgusting. Could it backfire or actually help him among his supporters?
Also, Trump announced details on his donations his campaign has made to a number of veterans groups. We'll take a closer look at the numbers.
Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:58:27] BALDWIN: A woman in a wheelchair is taking the floor and inspiring people along the way. In today's "Turning Point," Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at how she's defying the odds and putting her own spin on dancing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cerebral palsy didn't stop this dancer from living her dream in the spotlight.
TERI WESTERMAN, DANCER: When I'm dancing, I feel like I'm flying.
GUPTA: Terry Westerman's drive and determination came from her biggest cheerleaders, her parents and brothers.
WESTERMAN: My family never treated me any different. I just happened to have to wear braces and walk on crutches and go to physical therapy a lot.
GUPTA: She endured more than 15 operations growing up.
WESTERMAN: The last one put me in the wheelchair full-time.
GUPTA: Teri pursued a career in the arts despite her new reality, and the naysayers.
WESTERMAN: The directors and producers would look at us and say, I'm sorry, we can't use you.
GUPTA: So, she started her own theater company.
WESTERMAN: I need some original ideas.
I was one of the founding members of PHAMALY, which is a physically disabled acting troupe.
GUPTA: And that's not all. Teri has inspired others with disabilities by winning Miss Wheelchair Colorado and competing in ballroom dancing throughout Europe. Her latest project is a nonprofit integrated dance company called Spoke N Motion, proving possibilities are endless.
WESTERMAN: Be the person first, but if all you see when you look at me is the wheelchair, you have no idea who I am.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:00:12] BALDWIN: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
