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Boxing Legend Muhammad Ali Dead at 74. Aired 1-1:30a ET

Aired June 04, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NATALIE ALLEN, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: I'm Natalie Allen at CNN Center. Again, our breaking news, Muhammad Ali, the boxer known as "The Greatest," has died. He was 74 years old. The cause of death still unclear, but Ali has been struggling with Parkinson's disease for more than 30 years, and he'd been hospitalized in Phoenix, Arizona, since Thursday with breathing issues.

We have on the line Jerry Izenberg. Jerry, renowned writer, sports writer, boxing writer and a close friend of Muhammad Ali. And Jerry, thank you for staying on the line with us.

As you were talking about the story, some of our viewers, some of our younger viewers, might not know about Muhammad Ali, that he was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War and did not go. I also find it interesting, here's a fighter. His whole life is fighting in the ring, but he made comments about the fact that he wouldn't go to a war and kill anyone.

JERRY IZENBERG, COLUMNIST EMERITUS, NEWARK STAR-LEDGER (via telephone): Well, you know, this is what he -- the way he felt, that the only war he felt at that time was justified was anything which was involving Muslims. And because at that time, he was a member of the Nation of Islam.

He now is a genuine -- I hate to say genuine, but that's what it is, genuine Sunni Muslim. And everything that he stood for at the end is very different than what he stood for in the beginning, because he didn't have the knowledge.

But I was talking about the Supreme Court decision --

ALLEN: Yes.

IZENBERG: -- and the fact that Thurgood Marshall could not vote, because he had been in the Justice Department when Ali's case started. So now the court was an eight-person court, and they voted 5-3 to send him to jail. And Justice Harland had voted against Ali.

And a law clerk went in and spoke to him and said, I think you've got to learn more about the Nation of Islam, with all due respect, Mr. Justice. Here's some literature that I have, and see if it changes things, that plus the fact that the conscience objector examiner (ph) had said he was. Harlan changed his vote. So now it's 4-4, but he still has to go to

jail because 4-4 means they're not going to hear it. And Justice Stewart said, look -- he was on the other side -- I know he's not -- he's innocent. He shouldn't go to jail, and I think everybody in this room knows that. Yeah, someone said, but we're -- we don't want to set a precedent.

He said, here's what you do. You take the FBI report and you read it. You will see that you have three possible things, but there's no conclusion as to why the draft board should induct him. That being the case, we call it an error in the early trial, we throw it out, he walks, but we're not setting a precedent.

And that's how it ended. Most people think he won in the Supreme Court. He did not.

ALLEN: Well, thank you for sharing that with us. And what was the reaction back then to his stance with the war as far as just the public?

IZENBERG: First of all, we had hard hats and yuppies fighting. We had hard hats and war protesters fighting in Times Square. We had the whole country -- listen, I'm 85 years old. I've seen a lot. I've never, ever seen the country this divided. Ever.

And he was not, as people are saying on television, the early patron saint of the anti-war movement. They didn't know much about him until they saw that he stuck it up the man's rear end and he was able to survive, and then he became a big hero. He believed what he believed. And the story I told you about going to jail, I think, should prove that.

But he was a remarkable man. He was a considerate person. He was a guy -- only once or twice did he do things that I thought were absolutely unforgivable. The thing with Ernie Terrell in the ring when he said, "Call my name, call my name," and he did stick his thumb in his eye.

But the fact is that the Muhammad Ali that burst on the scene as a young brash guy is not the fellow who just left us. Muhammad Ali evolved. It was the evolution of a human being. And I have known him for 50 years.

And I will tell you this about that. He was a guy who didn't change his beliefs. He reaffirmed the ones that were strong, and he found others to replace the ones that he decided were not for him. He matured greatly despite the boyish act.

I remember sitting in the ring at the Concord. He was going to fight Kenny Norton. And I interviewed him, and we were sitting in folding chairs. I remember he had striped -- vertically striped shirt on, and he was combing his hair while we were talking. And I said to him, well, what about the Black Panthers. Let's talk about that. This is in the '70s.

And he said to me, you know, he said, that's played out now. That black/white business is played out. I'm a (inaudible) Muslim now, and I think that stuff is just gone and shouldn't be here.

He said, black and white, it's ridiculous. The only thing that's going to matter in the future is green. And then Ali said, and I'm going to get my share.

ALLEN: He certainly did that. Jerry, hang on right there. We're enjoying our conversation. I want to bring in my colleague from "World Sport," our anchor Don Riddell sitting here with me too.

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: Yes, reliving some incredible memories and looking back on the amazing life and times of Muhammad Ali. Of course, he was a superstar, a global superstar in the golden age of boxing. He inspired so many people all over the world.

And so many people who worked with him during that time have amazing stories. And we're lucky enough to be able to bring one of them into our show now.

We're joined by the boxing promoter, Don King, who worked with Mohammad Ali on many of those iconic fights.

Thank you very much for joining us this evening, sir, on what is a very, very sad evening. Don, what are your most prominent memories of Muhammad Ali?

DON KING, BOXING PROMOTER (via telephone): Well, first, let me say that Muhammad Ali, you know, was a man of the people. He was a fighter for the people. I love Muhammad Ali. He was a friend for life.

And he had -- he will never die. His spirit will go on forever. And he represents what every athlete and sportsperson in life would try to do, an attitude of going out there and getting it done without any equivocation.

Success, what he was after, the goal that he was after, he was just fabulous. So was a - he's just a great, great human being and a champion of the people, the greatest of all times.

RIDDELL: When you first met him, what was it that attracted you to him as an athlete and as a boxer? What was it he had that the other guys just didn't?

KING: He had an attitude that he cared for people. And little kids and old people, you know, he would go out and do things without any type of -- trying to find any type of publicity or any kind of aggrandizement. He would do it because it's in his heart.

And he was a very jovial person, a person that was -- that's a (inaudible), you could deal with. He was one of the masses, you know what I mean. And he would fight for the masses for what's right and what's wrong, and he would stand up for what his beliefs are.

No one can say how truly great Muhammad Ali really was, because during the height of his career is when he ran into the encounter of being charged with draft evasion and wouldn't go to the war. But he was a conscientious objector, and he believed in that. And so therefore, he stood his ground on what he was.

And they took him through all type of trials and tribulations. But he rose to the occasion to prefer to go to jail than to break what he believed in. And that's why everybody loved him, friends and foe alike, because he stood up for what he believed in and he fought for the will of the people.

And so the Supreme Court of the United States vindicated him with that glorious decision that came in his behalf, and it was just like, wow. It was just like heaven on earth. For that young man, those four years that he lost at the heat of height of his career, they can never say how good he would have been, because he did all this greatness after being held out from practicing his trade at the height of his career.

He sacrificed that. He had something to lose, and that's when you can tell a person, when they have something that they will be able to lose when you put them to the test. And he stood the test of time. I love the man.

RIDDELL: And he was incredible when he came back after losing, as you say, three, four of the best years of his career.

Early on, Don, people didn't really know what to make of him. He was so brash, so bombastic. I mean, you look back at his press conferences now, and they're just absolutely amazing performances. And it was all off the cuff.

But in the early days he was quite polarizing and very controversial. What was it, do you think, that really turned the public opinion in his favor?

KING: Well, because he stood steadfast, tenacious, in his belief, and firm. He said what he meant, and he meant what he said. And this is what you can win the people with, you know, because when you've got everything to gain -- and he had everything to gain by just going along with this system, but he fought the system for righteousness. And in so doing he gained a fame and an affluence, but more importantly, the loyalty of the people.

The people that didn't like him had to respect him, and that's really all you have to do is to deal with r-e-s-p-e-c-t, respect. And this is what really turned him around, because he kept his brash statements. He stayed right there with it. He was a visionary. And he would prognosticate what he would do and then go out and do it.

And so he was a fighter for the people. He was the greatest of all times. And, you know, I coined a phrase for him. I said every head must bow, every knee must bend, every tongue must confess thou art that the greatest, the greatest of all-time, Muhammad, Muhammad Ali.

And this is just what he exemplified, and he demonstrated that with, you know, the love of the people. He was a tremendous, tremendous not only just a boxer, a great human being. And is an icon, and his spirit will never die. Ali will never die, like Martin Luther King.

All of them that stood and up fought for it with the president that I loved, John F. Kennedy, all of them had ways and means of saying things that would be able to incite and get people motivated and inspired to do what was right and stand their ground on what was right. And that's why Mohammad Ali will never die.

RIDDELL: Don, you're absolutely right. He transcended his sport. And at his peak, he was arguably the most recognizable figure on the planet.

You traveled the world with him. Are there any stories or memories you can recall which really exemplified that?

KING: It was so -- listen, it's a multitude. When he was fighting -- when we made the fight for him to go to Kinshasa, Zaire, he told me, he said, I'm going to show you something. I'm going to do this and that and the other. I said, yes.

But we couldn't get the fight. George Foreman, one of the greatest in the world, he didn't want to fight Muhammad Ali, because he said that Ali, you know, he was old and the people loved him and if he beat Ali, he would be -- instead of getting credit for beating Ali, they'd say he beat an old man. And he said that if he hurt him, he said that would be the end of his career, if he hurt Muhammad Ali.

He said, I don't really want to fight Ali. He said, and besides that, he talks too much. And I said, that's it, George. And from -- well, from that, talked too much, I got George to agree with talking to him, to shut up Muhammad's mouth. All right?

Now, he goes in there and he introduces the rope-a-dope. Know what I mean? And comes out and knocked out George Foreman, a formidable guy who carried the flags in the Olympics and just was awesome, devastating puncher. And he beat George Foreman.

Then, we go over to the 1975, he goes into Manila. The thrilla in Manila. All right? So here's a guy, then he's fighting Joe Frazier in one of the greatest fights that ever took place in the history of this sport. You know what I mean?

And Eddie Futch, God bless his spirit, he topped that fight in the 14th round. He wouldn't let Joe go on, because Joe would go on forever. But he said he wasn't going to let that happen, and Ali said, this is the closest I've ever come to death.

And so now, you know, death has caught up with him. But like you say, death will not put him to sleep forever, because he will live forever. The spirit is housed down here on earth. He has vacated.

But he retains the aplomb and the respect of the lord who sits high and looks low and keeps his eye on the sparrow. Muhammad Ali is a legend in his time, but he's a fighter for the people. And that's why he's always said, never forget where you come from and stand up for what you believe in.

RIDDELL: Yes, he came out with so many quotes, Muhammad Ali did. And one of my favorites, "Live every day as if it's your last, because one day you're going to be right." We haven't seen much of him in public really for the last 20 years. I mean, we go back to Atlanta '96 to the Olympics when he lit the cauldron, and that's really the last time many of us can remember seeing him in public. Did you have a chance, Don, to speak with him in more recent times? And how would you describe his spirit more recently?

KING: His spirit was -- is solid as ever. He wasn't a man that would take defeat. Defeat was not in his vocabulary and not in his habit, his behavior.

Whatever he took on, it was a challenge, and he would fight the challenge. Just like what others would have done with Parkinson's or diseases that would be demoralizing, especially to a person who was as loquacious as he was, who was so high-spirited. And, you know, it was just tremendous.

But he never said die, you know. And It was remarkable, because, you know, they coined the phrase, "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see. Rumble, young man, rumble." And this young man that was a droop (ph) on Denny Brown (ph), and Muhammad Ali would emulate all that.

He said he was so fast he could turn off -- he could turn off the light switches, and before the room would get dark, he'd be in bed. And that's how fast he was.

So he would challenge anything and everything in the sport of boxing, and he rose to the occasion. You know, and he made -- every fight was a tough fight. He never would put an opponent down. He would -- he would -- instead of running away from signing autographs and things, he would take time every day in the hotels to sit down in the lounge or whatever area, to meet the people and especially to motivate and inspire the kids and to be able to hug and talk to the people of agent. You know what I mean?

So he was just a tremendous people person. And that's what I love about him. And that's what would inspire -- in fact, he brought me into the business. He brought me into the business. I was not in the boxing business.

Muhammad Ali was my first fighter. He brought me in. And after we put on a show for people there in Cleveland, Ohio to keep the hospital doors open for Forrest City Hospital, he said, you should go into boxing. He said you are a promoter. You're a great promoter, and he said, and you should go into the sport of boxing.

You know, and so I said, you want me to go into boxing, then Let me promote you. He said, you got it. You know what I mean? And so we started working together, because I knew him before.

When he went to -- went he went into exile, I went into prison. And when I came out of prison, he came out of exile about maybe eight months before I got out of prison. And so he brought Jerry Quarry in, I think, in Atlanta. You know, but he was waiting on me when I came out, you know. And when

the people asked me to help him with this hospital, I called on him, and he was right there to put on a show for people. He cared. He fought four, five, six opponents in one night, and it was just -- it was just incredible.

You know, and he focused the plight of that hospital, nationwide and worldwide. And Goodyear and Firestone tire companies that was in neighboring Akron, they came in as supporters, and people came in and kept, you know, working and supporting and kept that hospital open, because it only serviced the poor white and the colored community.

So it was a -- it was a tremendous thing. He's always been right there, Johnny on the spot, with anything he could do for the betterment of mankind.

RIDDELL: Don, you did a great job of promoting him. He did a great job of promoting himself. He really was a wonderful human being, as you say. This is a very, very sad evening, but this is a life to be celebrated.

Don King, Muhammad Ali's former supporter, thanks so much for joining us on CNN tonight.

KING: Let us say -- let us celebrate, you know, his life. This is not a time to mourn. This is a time to try to emulate the job that he was doing and the burden that he leaves behind for us to carry on, to remember that the people are the most important.

RIDDELL: Well said. Don King, thank you very much.

ALLEN: We want to turn now to Phoenix, Arizona. That is where Muhammad Ali passed away just a short time ago. He had been in the hospital there. Dan Simon is live for us outside the hospital.

And I don't know what the mood there is but we heard don King say, although this is a time sadness, that we're celebrating the life of this man. What more are you learning there?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Natalie. Of course, it's very sad here in Phoenix and very sad across the world.

We should tell you that word first got out late last night and early this morning that Muhammad Ali was in the hospital and was very ill. We just didn't know how sick he truly was. At first, his publicist said he was in fair condition. And then we

found out this afternoon that, in fact, it was a very serious situation that he was facing. He was having some respiratory problems associated with his Parkinson's disease. Then we found out just a short time ago that he, in fact died, here in the Scottsdale area.

We know there's going to be a media briefing tomorrow to talk about the funeral plans. We've already been told, Natalie, that the funeral will take place in his hometown of Louisville. Natalie?

ALLEN: Seems appropriate. And what about his family? Were they with him on this night when he died?

SIMON: Muhammad Ali has nine children and, of course, his wife Lonnie. We are told that many of his children, if not all of his children, of course, and his wife as well, were at his bedside. Of course, a very difficult time for them. We know that the family, of course, is asking for privacy at this time.

What happens tomorrow? I think we'll begin hearing from the family in terms of the funeral plans and really where we go from here, Natalie.

ALLEN: All right. Dan Simon for us there outside the hospital in Phoenix, Arizona, where Muhammad Ali died a short time ago.

Fellow boxer Mike Tyson is tweeting his condolences for the great Muhammad Ali. And I quote, "God came for his champion." He tweeted, "So long great one. #thegreatest. #RIP."

Ali, born Cassius Clay in Louisville, Kentucky back in 1942. For how Ali's hometown is reacting to his death, let's go to CNN's Ryan Young. He is in Louisville outside the Muhammad Ali Center.

And when we spoke just about an hour ago, you were there alone. Is anything changing there, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know what? What we've seen so far is some people have been driving by, and they've been screaming "Hey, Ali's the greatest." There are a few people who are across the street kind of standing by just kind of watching us right now.

I haven't seen a lot of people reacting just yet coming to this location. But what we can do is, you know that this is trending on Twitter. And when you look at it, the geolocation, you can see a lot of people in this area tweeting just about this at this point, talking about the passing of Muhammad Ali.

We're also at the Muhammad Ali center. They just released a statement that says, "Our deepest sympathies and heartfelt condolences are with the Ali family and friends at this time. He will forever be remembered as 'The greatest.'"

And, of course, you heard some of those wonderful conversations that you guys were having about Ali's life. Don King talking about celebrating his life instead of mourning it.

One thing I thought that we should mention is the idea of how he even got started in boxing. You know, you read his biography. It talks about the idea that someone stole his bike, and when he reported it to the police officer, he was talking about the idea of whatever he found that whoever stole his bike, he wanted to be able to beat them up.

So what basically that officer said, hey, why don't you learn how to box? And when you think about turning that into a champion, the idea he was able to harness that and become so well known around the world. You think about all the quotes that have come out throughout the years, the things that stick out there. The fact that the modern athlete now is almost modeled after some of that braggadocios part of Muhammad Ali, the things that stick out, and especially in a city like this, Louisville, that loves Ali so much.

We've learned that tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. there will be an event at Metro Hall. The mayor has just announced that in the last few minutes. So we know people will have a chance to come out and show their support for Muhammad Ali and the love they have for this man.

So many things stick out about him. And one of the quotes that's kind stuck out is, "Don't count the days. Make the days count." So you have a man who has a reflection not only on life but the process of how to be a champion, and that's part of what this center here is all about.

So you can understand, I bet they'll be so many fans that will come streaming out in the next few hours to celebrate this man's life. And you think about all the pictures, the legacy of Muhammad Ali, the idea that even now some of the photos from his fights are still out there. Boxing fans have this discussion all the time.

You go to a barbershop, people want to know who's the greatest fighter of all-time. Muhammad Ali? Mike Tyson? Those are the conversations that still happen to this day, and it really talks about the testament of this man through our time.

ALLEN: And it all started right there in Louisville, Kentucky. Thank you so much. Ryan Young is there live for us there tonight. Thank you, Ryan.

Veteran "Sports Illustrated" photographer, Neil Leifer, has photographed Ali throughout his boxing career. Leifer now looks back at his interactions with Muhammad Ali and shares stories behind some of his most famous photos "The Greatest."

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NEIL LEIFER, VETERAN SPORTS ILLUSTRATED PHOTOGRAPHER: I like to call what Ali has "visual charisma." There are some people that like the camera. Muhammad, whether he was in the ring or in the studio, he has this charisma. He just seems to do whatever the things are that one does to make good pictures.

Muhammad Ali turned 70 on January 17th. I first photographed Ali as a 19-year-old kid, and I've been lucky enough to ride his coattails for the last 50-plus years.

I've done 35 of his fights. And I've had my photographs of Muhammad on the cover of "Sports Illustrated" 12 times.

I'm often asked, do I have one favorite photograph. My favorite picture ever, it's a remote camera looking straight down on the apron to the Cleveland Williams/Ali fight in 1966. It is far and away my favorite picture, much more -- well, I don't want to say more important to me than Ali standing over Sonny Liston, because I know that my legacy is going to be that picture.

But you had to be in the right seat at the Liston/Ali fight, so I was in the right seat. The Cleveland Williams picture had nothing to do with luck. It was something I thought about. It was something I made happen. It was something I worked on to get it perfect. And it's the only picture I've taken in my life where even today I look at it and there isn't anything I would change.

You talk to anybody that was lucky enough to cover Muhammad Ali during his boxing career and even now, and they're all in love with him. And the reason for it is Muhammad Ali never ran out of time for anybody.

I'd come back to "Sports Illustrated" with the pictures and they thought, geez, that's good. It's genius, you know. I mean, well, you couldn't miss.

He was one of those guys, occasionally he'd come in and say, OK, you've got 20 minutes today. You took too long last time, you know. And an hour later he was suggesting things.

And the most recent one in a lot of ways maybe is the most exciting. It was a fabulous experience. And I found that if I waited patiently for the right time of day, he's never looked better.

I always start off with my own ideas, and then suddenly, you know, something happens. Magic happens. With Ali on this recent shoot, the lead picture in the magazine is this thing he's done for a million years when he gets in that boxing pose. Well, I didn't ask him to do that. He was standing there, and suddenly he turned into the old fighter, you know? And he just knows. He just makes good pictures.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Yes, you don't have to ask him to make that pose, I'm sure. Again, Don Riddell with me. And you spoke with the photographer, Mr. Leifer, about some of his pictures.

RIDDELL: Yes, he's a very, very famous sports photographer here in the United States, and his work is famous all over the world. As he says, he worked with Muhammad Ali so many times.

And there are great stories around all of those images. My favorite is one that we actually saw during that segment there when Ali beat Sonny Liston, and it's an iconic picture of him roaring over his prone body.

But if you look between Ali's legs, you can see a bald man with glasses. That was Neil Leifer's mentor, effectively his boss. And they went to the fight together. Neil was young in his career. And the story goes that the guy on the other side said, stick with me, you'll get the best shot from this side of the ring. Well, how can you know what side of the ring you're going to get the best shot from, because you don't know how the fight's going to unfold and you don't know what direction the fighters are going to be facing at the moment of truth.

So Neil goes around to the other side, snaps this amazing picture. And within the frame, he manages to compose his boss not taking a picture. He doesn't even have the camera up. The camera's not over his face. And he's looking bemused, this guy on the other side of the ring. So I just think it's just a great story to that photograph and an absolutely amazing picture that really does capture Ali in his prime, victorious, dominant. He's almost kind of baiting and goading Liston, get up, you know, come

back. But, you know, he's -- it's too late for Sonny Liston in that fight. And that is one of the most iconic boxing pictures of all-time. There are several involving Ali, and Neil Leifer took many of them.

ALLEN: And some of the older pictures I was looking at earlier, all the photographers leaning over on the ring, you know, snapping photographs as they fought. Some of the black and white photographs, really fascinating.

RIDDELL: Yes, and Ali loved it. I mean, he loved the attention.

I mentioned earlier some of the great films and documentaries that have been made about him. When I first saw "When We Were Kings," which is about the rumble in the jungle that -- the icon example fight against George Foreman, the first kind of 10, 15 minutes are a lot of Muhammad Ali's press conferences and just regaling the media. And because I hadn't seen this footage before, I just assumed it was an actor.

I couldn't believe how good he was. How eloquent and articulate and how fast he was able to think off the cuff. You know, we're just not used to seeing athletes like that. Certainly not then, and not so much now. I mean, he really was a one of a kind. And we see all these amazing images. I mean, just such an expressive man, wasn't he?

ALLEN: Yes, absolutely.

RIDDELL: A very, very handsome man, too. And really, as I say, one of a kind.

ALLEN: I was thinking that, handsome. We have some of the pictures of him coming off the airplane back in the '60s in his suit, looking quite dapper.

RIDDELL: And he liked telling everybody how handsome he was, too, right? When Will Smith played him in the movie a couple of years ago, he said, you know, you're just about good enough to play me, just about good-looking enough.

All right, Don, thanks so much. Talk to you again.

Muhammad Ali just as famous for his flair with words, as we were just discussing, as he was for his boxing skills. And he brought entertainment to sports in a rare way.

Many credit him with revolutionizing trash talk as we know it today. He had plenty of famous lines like describing his boxing style as "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." I think we all know that one.

Ali never lacked in confidence. His swagger defined his public persona. He once told a challenger, if you even dream of beating me, you'd better wake up and apologize. I like that one.

Outside the ring, Ali was still larger than life. He famously refused to be drafted to fight in Vietnam, telling reporters, "I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet cong." He publicly questioned the war in ways that few others were willing to.

In that and many other ways, he was an inspiring figure. He gave millions of people words to live by, and these are especially relevant today. "Live every day as if it was your last, because someday you're going to be right."

We continue our breaking news coverage of the death of Muhammad Ali. Up next, "Remembering The Greatest," a CNN special report.

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