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Trump's Military Strategies and Campaign; Trump Unhappy with Debate Schedule; Will Rio beat Challenges Before Opening Ceremonies? Aired 10:30-11:00a

Aired August 01, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:50] DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: ... Does Donald Trump, Carol, have any ties with Russia as a businessman? And the answer seems to be no. He's tried many times to build in Russia. Twice trying to get a Trump tower built. Literally have not gotten off the ground in Moscow.

The only thing that he's really done substantive is in 2013 he tried to -- well he did, he successfully brought the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow. He made several million dollars, we believe, and it was a big success. He did try to meet Vladimir Putin during that time and he was not able to do so.

What everybody is looking at is his campaign aide now, a guy by the name of Paul Manafort. Now Manafort, longtime political consultant to Republican Presidential candidates. But in 2010, Manafort was a political consultant to a guy named Viktor Yanukovych who became, with his help, the President of Ukraine.

He had to leave Ukraine, his government fell apart, he ran over to Russia. It all kind of fell apart and that's when we had this invasion take place where Russia invaded Crimea. The question is, Carol, does Paul Manafort, who had at one time, very close ties with the former President of Ukraine, have Donald Trump's ear on this? And that's what a lot of people who study these geopolitics want to know.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST, "NEWSROOM": It's very complicated but the former President of Ukraine fled to Russia, right?

GRIFFIN: That's right. That's absolutely right. And encouraged Vladimir Putin to invade Crimea because he felt so many of those citizens, as Donald Trump said, identify as Russian citizens. So that is what has everybody raising eyebrows.

Now the question is really, how close is Paul Manafort now to the former President of Ukraine, and how close is the former President of Ukraine to Vladimir Putin? And what does this all have to do with Donald Trump's position on Ukraine?

It's very complicated, conspiratorily thinking people will think it's all connected. Those who are following Trump maybe are not quite sure he grasps the entire knowledge of what's happening in that country, and he's speaking off the cuff. So we'll just have to wait and see. COSTELLO: All right, Drew Griffin, thanks so much. So let's talk

about this. Andy Smith, he's the Director at the University of New Hampshire Survey Center, he's with me. Also historian and Professor at Princeton University, Julian Zelizer. And CNN Military Analyst, retired Lieutenant General, Mark Hertling. Welcome to all of you.

General Hertling, what do you think Trump meant when he was -- meant when he was talking to George Stephanopoulos?

LIEUTENANT GENERAL MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I'm not sure, Carol. I think what he said was some things where he didn't understand actually what's been going on in Ukraine. Not only for the last several years, but also for the last century or so.

They are a land without borders. They have been a very -- they have been challenged as a country to provide their own sovereignty. They are just standing up now. But two years ago, not only was there the annexation of Crimea, which everyone seems to be focused on, but there was an invasion of Western Ukraine.

And in fact, that fight continues to go on. There have been over 10,000 people killed in what is now considered a near frozen conflict. Because of the invasion of Russia in the Western Ukraine into an area about the size of our state of Delaware. Russia has occupied that area and the fight continues.

So I just don't think Mr. Trump truly understood the complications involved in Ukraine. And he's better to not comment when he doesn't understand. Because for the 48 million people that have -- that live in Ukraine, they have definitely been invaded by Russia.

COSTELLO: So Julian, is this -- I mean, is this like Sarah Palin when she said "I can see Russia from my house?" Or are we exaggerating this whole conundrum?

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: No I think it reflects a series of statements we've seen from Donald Trump on foreign policy. One, it raises this conspiratorial story about Manafort and what his role is. Two, it raises the question of what does Donald Trump know and understand about foreign policy? And is his knowledge so thin that he's not fit to be President. And finally, it's about temperament.

And he's often willing to say things and speak off the top of his head. Whereas Presidents can't do that on foreign policy because it could have pretty big implications. So in all three areas, I think it raises concern.

COSTELLO: But I think, Andy, people who support Donald Trump think he will surround himself with smart people who know foreign policy. And he's going to be OK.

ANDY SMITH, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SURVEY CENTER: Well that certainly would be the hope of most people in America and around the world. That if he is elected then he would surround himself with people. I think there's really two things that are going on with this. And

you can see both campaigns playing to their campaign strengths. The Clinton campaign certainly has been effective in saying that Trump is unfit. Really unknowledgable, and the temperament issue is certainly one of the things they've been emphasizing.

But what Trump is doing by pushing back on this, first off he's not explaining -- which is usually a good strategy in politics -- but he's projecting toughness in -- by talking about weakness of the Obama administration, that hits Clinton as well. So I think you're seeing both of your campaigns locking down and going forward into November.

But the thing to remember still is the American public generally doesn't pay a lot of attention to foreign policy issues. Unless there's a shooting war going on involving the U.S. The rest of the world we kind of turn another eye to -- excuse me.

COSTELLO: General, and something else that Donald Trump said, he said the people of Crimea, in his mind, maybe they wanted to rejoin Russia, right? But it's a sovereign country, right? And Russia rested (ph) Crimea from a sovereign country. So just explain to us why that's concerning.

HERTLING: Well it's very concerning because it is a sovereign nation. Ukraine is not a part of NATO. They asked for NATO admission (AUDIO BREAK) ... 'because of a variety (AUDIO BREAK). So they are not under the defensive (ph) treaties of NATO.

But to have Russia go into Crimea -- which consists of their blackwater Port of Sevastopol -- gives them the strategic advantage -- them, Russia -- a strategic advantage in the Black Sea. And they just overrode the sovereignty of a nation in doing so.

One of the other things I'd like to mention though, too, Carol, is the U.S. military has forces in Ukraine right now. There's several training areas, they are contributing to the benefit of the Ukrainian military to counter the Russian incursion into the Donbass and the Crimea.

So just to say, "well Mr. Putin should do whatever he wants in a non- NATO country." And then to have Mr. Trump later say, "I'm going to do something about that as President," where just a few weeks ago for a NATO country he said he wouldn't come to their aid, is very confusing to me as a military guy and as a strategist.

[10:36:55]

COSTELLO: Well let me ask you something else General. Because I interviewed Donald Trump's foreign policy advisor, an Admiral in the 9:00 Eastern hour of Newsroom. And he said that Donald Trump wouldn't lay out specifics of his plan to defeat ISIS because he wanted to keep some things under wraps. What do you think about that?

HERTLING: I think any presidential candidate who is going to have control of our nation's military has to at least outline the type of strategy, and the type of doctrine they will adhere to. Now certainly they're not going to give the tactics or the operational ardor, things like that.

But as an American people, we want to know what they will do in situations like this. And it's got to go beyond the statements of, "well, we'll just take care of Mr. Putin," or "we'll make America great again." You have to have a strategy, you have to have an approach as a presidential candidate. Because you are going to be the Commander in Chief. And the rest of the military really kind of have to know what you're going to do.

COSTELLO: So Julian, are you aware of Trump's strategy or a Trump doctrine?

ZELIZER: No, I don't think he's outlined it. It's all over the place, he's talked about everything from withdrawing from NATO to being tough against ISIS. And it's an amalgam of different ideas. And I'm not sure it's a doctrine as much as him just telling us different points of view on different days.

I'm not sure if he needs one or not, to be honest. I think generally we think that but I'm not sure that's how the electorate is reacting this time. And they might be reacting to a different aspect of his candidacy that some find appealing. And so I don't know if a doctrine's necessary in this day and age.

COSTELLO: So Andy, final word, do you agree?

SMITH: I think so. I think we can all recall Richard Nixon's secret plan to deal with Vietnam. Wouldn't release any information about it, we had to trust him on it. So I think Trump's really gone pushing back towards that sort of a strategy. "Trust me," and "I'm tough (ph)."

COSTELLO: All right, General Mark Hertling ...

HERTLING: You know Carol, if ...

COSTELLO: Oh, go ahead.

HERTLING: If we don't expect our President to outline a doctrine, or his thoughts on how he is going to govern and conduct national- international relations, we're asking for trouble.

COSTELLO: General Mark Hertling, Andy Smith, Julian Zelizer, thanks to all of you.

HERTLING: Thank you.

SMITH: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the Newsroom, Donald Trump accuses Hillary Clinton of rigging their upcoming debate. So could he be a no-show?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:35] COSTELLO: Donald Trump is crying foul on this fall's debate schedule, and specifically the dueling nights with the NFL. The first debate is on September 26th. It coincides with Monday Night Football on ESPN. The second on October 9th coincides with Sunday Night Football on NBC.

Trump first took to Twitter accusing Clinton and the Democrats of trying to rig the debates. And then he had this to say on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well I'll tell you what I don't like. It's against two NFL games, I got a letter from the NFL saying, "this is ridiculous, why are the debates against --" because the NFL doesn't want to go against the debates because the debates are going to be pretty massive from what I understand, OK?

And I don't think we should be against the NFL. I don't know how the dates were picked, I don't know why those particular dates got ...

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't like the ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now to talk about this is Larry Sabato, Director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. John Avlon and CNN Political Analyst and Editor in Chief at The Daily Beast. And CNN Senior Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter. Welcome to all of you.

I have to clear my throat here. Good morning, so Brian did Donald Trump get a letter from the NFL complaining about the debate schedule?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CONSULTANT: He did not. The NFL says there was no letter sent. And the Trump campaign walked that back on Sunday saying it was actually a source close to the league that told Trump about this calendar conflict. The reality is, you look at the calendar, they could've known many months ago this was the case. Because these dates were set for the debates in September of last year.

The Commission on Presidential Debates has a very hard job. They have to juggle sporting events, and religious holidays, and venue arrangements, and lots of other issues. They came up with the best dates they could. And Carol, they are saying very clearly they're not looking at changing these debates, even though Trump would like different dates for them.

COSTELLO: But Larry, isn't it reasonable to think that you don't want to schedule a debate, you know, you know, alongside a football game? Because people are more likely to watch the football game?

[10:45:30]

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well I'd hate to think they would be more inclined to watch a football game. Because there are so many of them as opposed to three presidential, one vice presidential debate. But Carol, somehow I suspect you're right. But look, I went back and

checked. These dates, these four dates for 2016 are almost identical to the dates that have been used in recent election cycles. There's nothing unusual about these dates.

COSTELLO: Yes.

SABATO: This is Donald Trump once again playing a game. He's putting everybody back on their heels. Maybe he is testing whether he can drop out of one or more of these debates if they're not -- if the campaign's not going well for him. Who knows exactly what's going through his mind. I do know this, no one should change anything on account of his whining.

COSTELLO: So John, is it possible that Donald Trump would skip a debate?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Well he has before. He famously did during the primary season. It didn't seem to do him any favors in Iowa. Which he narrowly lost after he pulled out. But this is sort of part and parcel of the way Donald Trump plays ball.

Maybe to him life's all one big negotiation. You see how far you can go and how much you can get. But as Brian pointed out, these debates were set by the Commission in September of 2015. And a typical candidate doesn't throw tantrums to try to get everything his way. And God love Monday Night Football, but I'm pretty sure the republic will survive if there's a presidential debate separate than it.

There will be huge -- there will be huge viewership. And usually, ironically Carol, historically the candidate who is lagging in the polls is the one who needs the debates the most. So it's really questionable why Donald Trump would be threatening to scuttle the debates other than just his impulse, isn't it?

COSTELLO: And I've got to say, Brian, when I talk to people in the public, they're excited for these debates. They are siked.

STELTER: The whole world is going to be watching these debates. The idea that Trump would withdraw from one of them is almost preposterous, right? He needs to be on that stage with Hillary Clinton. The whole world's waiting for it. To be fair to him, he has not said anything about withdrawing or boycotting. He says he's looking forward to these debates and he thinks three of them is fine.

However I think a lot of people look at this and wonder, is he setting the stage for further demands, right? Is he beginning the negotiations in public so that he can have more leverage. And I think that is very possible in this case. Because every four years the campaigns do have lots of things they negotiate, even right down to the height of the podiums and the temperature in the rooms.

COSTELLO: But what might he want to change, Larry?

SABATO: Well he might want to eliminate questions about the Ukraine or who else it might be. Because debates have had an impact in the past when a candidate has made a terrible gaffe. Cool (ph) President Ford, freeing Poland claiming they weren't under the thumb of the Soviet Union in October of 1976. It probably cost him the election. He was gaining on Jimmy Carter.

So these things can matter. Who knows what kinds of assurances Donald Trump and his team may want. But the important point is, they shouldn't be allowed to get any kind of unfair advantage in the debate. And we all need to watch this very carefully.

STELTER: Here's a free idea ...

AVLON: Yeah.

STELTER: Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Monday Night Football halftime show debate. That could solve the problem when (ph) you're in there (ph).

COSTELLO: That is genius, Brian Stelter, genius. John Avlon, last word.

SABATO: I love it.

AVLON: I think what they're going to want, frankly, is to get a broader audience that's more packed with Trump supporters. Donald Trump's best deflection technique during these primary debates was a crowd that roared when he said things that were "politically incorrect." It provided him cover.

I think that's his best case scenario. His worst case scenario would be a replay of the Kennedy-Nixon debates where there was no audience at all. And candidates simply have to stand on what they say and their mastery of the facts.

COSTELLO: I miss those days, frankly, I do ...

AVLON: Me, too.

COSTELLO: ... Because if it's more fair, right? It should just be them in a room ...

SABATO: Yeah.

COSTELLO: ... answering questions, and the American public listening. We'll see what happens.

AVLON: No audience. No audience.

COSTELLO: I doubt that'll happen but who knows.

AVLON: Well eight weeks from today ...

STELTER: Keep hope alive.

AVLON: ... first debate. COSTELLO: That's right, keep hope alive. Larry Sabato, John Avlon,

Brian Stelter, thanks to all of you. Still to come in the Newsroom, it's crunch time. We're now just days away from the opening ceremonies and Rio's problems are far from over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:50]

COSTELLO: Rio's challenges are relentless. Zika, crumbling structures, crime. With less than 5 days left until the opening ceremonies, can the city deliver? CNN's Shasta Darlington live in Rio with more for you. Hi, Shasta.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. I actually want to start with a little bit of good news, we haven't had so much of that. Right behind me is a brand new metro line that we thought, for months, might not open in time to connect all of the hotels here in the touristy part of the city, with the Olympic Park 19 miles away.

Well today it's opening its doors, at least for ticket holders. And that means that a trip that can take up to two hours in congested roads is now going to be cut down to about a half an hour. The bad news is that it won't open up for the rest of the city until after the games. We've already seen people behind us getting turned away when they try to go in.

We also have had, unfortunately, some bad news on the venue side. While the venues were delivered largely on time, some of them have since been damaged. At first it was the Olympic Village. We had heard about all the problems there. Well now the main boat ramp at the marina where the sailing event and the windsurfing events are going to take place, it was ripped apart by strong winds.

And on the same day, this very strong weather front also damaged some T.V. studios on Copacabana Beach right next to the volleyball -- the beach volleyball stadium. Those studios were damaged, they're having to build a barricade around that. It just seems like as soon as they get one thing done, they've got to fix something else, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Shasta Darlington reporting live from Rio this morning. Thank you for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan after a break.

[10:55:33]