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Death Toll Rises in Italy Earthquake; Trump Softening on Immigration?; Interview with Yuma Mayor Douglas Nichols; Trump Hits Clinton on Family's Foundation; Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired August 24, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[10:00:32] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a strong earthquake rocks central Italy, mountain towns in ruins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It woke us up. It felt like the bed was on rollers.
COSTELLO: Now the scramble for survivors buried under the rubble.
Plus, did Trump say he's going to pivot on immigration?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people.
COSTELLO: How the cornerstone of his campaign could be changing.
And Clinton facing fresh foundation attacks. What's the fallout?
Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
We do begin with breaking news this morning. A powerful earthquake hit central Italy and now we know at least 63 people have been killed. Rescuers still digging for survivors. They're trapped underneath mountains and mountains of rubble. The hardest hit spot, a popular vacation area devastated by the 6.2 magnitude earthquake. There's no telling how many people may be buried waiting for help. But take a look at this woman. Someone found her. Only her harm and face visible. Beneath a slab of concrete. And this man, he's staying by her side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you able to breathe a bit?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only a bit. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The important thing is to stay calm. Police
officers are on their way now. We will try to remove this. We are waiting for them so that we don't hurt you, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: We don't know right now whether that woman has been rescued. New information just coming in that the death toll here has risen to 73.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen is live in a town not too far from the epicenter. He has more for us.
Hi, Fred.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Carol. Yes, I'm in a little town of Accumoli, which is right at the epicenter of where this earthquake happen,. You know, one of the things that made this earthquake so deadly was on the one hand that it was of course a very strong earthquake but also that it was very, very shallow as well. And that's something that's led to a lot of destruction in little towns like Accumoli like I am right here.
I'm going to get out of your way for a second because I'm actually in front of a house that was destroyed. And we've been here for a couple of minutes. There was actually a search and rescue operation going on in that rubble, like you see right there behind me. There was a lot of fire department people that were involved in that scouring. They did tell us that they did manage to rescue one person from that rubble. So at least one sort of bit of good news in this massive tragedy that has befallen this region.
And if you look at that house, then you'll also see how old a lot of these structures are. A lot of these houses here are very ancient. And of course, when this earthquake struck, a lot of them didn't collapse, they simply crumbled. And that's why a lot of the people here, Carol, the ones that survived, some were injured, very, very traumatized at this point in time.
Of course many of them telling us that they've had relatives who's been injured. There is however a large-scale operations going on here in Italy right now. The authorities are moving in with a lot of equipment to try and help mitigate the situation here. There's mobile emergency rooms that are coming here. There's a lot of choppers that are on the scene now as well to try and help as fast as possible because we know, Carol, that in situations like this it's the first 72 hours that are key.
That's as long as people who are trapped under the rubble are able to survive if they did manage to fall into some sort of pocket and survive the initial shocks that came.
COSTELLO: All right. Frederik Pleitgen reporting live from central Italy this morning.
With a little over two months left in the 2016 campaign, Donald Trump and Mike Pence are making their pitch to voters throughout the south today. Pence is set to speak at any moment in Charlotte, North Carolina. Mr. Trump is heading to Mississippi and then the swing state of Florida.
Florida, as you know, is home to one of the country's largest populations of undocumented immigrants who have been squarely in Trump's sites ever since he launched his bid for the White House. But after months of tough talk on building walls and deportation, Mr. Trump seems to be softening his tone.
CNN's Jessica Schneider is following that part of our story this morning. Good morning.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You know, it's a softening that has been speculated about for the past week or so. Donald Trump, though, insists that he is not flip-flopping from his hard-line stance to deport millions of immigrants. But last night, he acknowledged there may be some room for some to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Is there any part of the law that you might be able to change would accommodate those people that contribute to society, have been law-abiding, have kids here?
[10:05:06] Would there be any room in your mind or you -- because I know you had a meeting this week with Hispanic leaders.
TRUMP: I did. I did. I had a meeting with great people, great Hispanic leaders. And there certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people. We want people. We have some great people in this country. We have some great, great people in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Donald Trump referring there to his meeting with a handpicked group of Hispanics over the weekend. But despite his self- admitted softening, he seems to be firm in at least one of his infamous pledges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to build a wall, folks. We're going to build a wall. We're going to build a wall. Don't worry, we're going to build a wall. That wall will go up so fast, your head will spin. And you'll say, you know, he meant it. And you know what else I mean, Mexico is going to pay for the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Now despite that comment, Donald Trump also said last night he would meet with the Mexican president if elected. Mexico's president recently reversed course somewhat saying he would in fact meet with the next president as well regardless of who he or even she may be -- Carol. COSTELLO: Why would Donald Trump meet with Mexico to talk about --
SCHNEIDER: It's unknown but he says that he will meet with them. He said it in that town hall. Despite his insistence, as you heard it there, that he will build that wall, he's sticking to at least that pledge -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Jessica Schneider --
SCHNEIDER: So far.
COSTELLO: Thanks so much.
So let's talk about that. With me now is Douglas Nichols, he's the mayor of Yuma, Arizona, and he is a Trump supporter. Welcome, Mr. Mayor.
MAYOR DOUGLAS NICHOLS, YUMA, ARIZONA: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Mr. Trump said, quote, "We're going to follow the law. We have very, very strong laws in this country." I know you're in favor of maybe toughening our immigration law. Are you surprised by Mr. Trump's comments?
NICHOLS: Well, first, I want to say that not about toughening the law necessarily but about reforming the law. There's a lot of things that just don't work. And so looking at ways that we can improve the law would be more important than toughening it necessarily.
COSTELLO: So as far as deporting the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country, do you think Mr. Trump still wants to do that? What does he mean -- what did he mean, you know, at that town hall with Sean Hannity?
NICHOLS: Well, it seems to me what he meant was that he is looking to really work with people who want to work and want to contribute to American society and American way of life which has been tradition since the beginning of our country. We have always had immigrants and immigrants have always contributed to our culture, our fabric, our economy. And I think that's what he's talking about.
Immigration is a very complex issue. And to be able to say yes or no and cover every element is just not practical.
COSTELLO: But here's the thing. Mr. Trump's core supporters liked his tough stance on immigration. I mean, just a few months ago, Trump vowed to round up the approximate 11 million people living in the U.S. illegally and eject them within two years. And if you don't believe me, here's Mr. Trump on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're rounding them up at a very humane way and a very nice way, and they're going to be happy because they want to be legalized. And by the way, I know it doesn't sound nice. But not everything is nice. They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they're going to be brought back to that country. That's the way it's supposed to be. Now they can come back but they have to come back legally. They will go out. They will come back. Some will come back, the best, through a process. They have to come back legally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK, so now Mr. Trump is saying, quote, "We're going to see who people are, we're going to see how they've done. There certainly can be a softening." So how is he going to see who people are and how is he going to figure out what they've done?
NICHOLS: Well, I don't know exactly how he's going to make that happen. But the understanding that immigration is a very complex issue and it needs to be looked individually and in different situations. For instance, in Yuma --
COSTELLO: But surely Mr. Trump knew that before. It is a complex issue.
NICHOLS: Well, a lot of people on the immigration discussion have been painting very wide brushes with issues and topics and supposed solutions. But if you look at immigration in the Yuma area, we bring, every day, 25,000 people across the border to work in our community that want to go home either night and they do during our agricultural season. And so when you have a dynamic like that, that's not going to replicate itself almost anywhere else in the country. So the complexities in immigration isn't something you can just sound bite at all.
COSTELLO: So does that include building a wall? Is that oversimplification as well?
NICHOLS: Well, I think Yuma is a perfect example. We already have a wall. We've had a wall for eight years. The security that it's provided, the organization that it's provided along the border has really changed the dynamic of our economy.
[10:10:02] It's changed the dynamic of our community. But it's not a barrier to working with Mexico. It's actually helped facilitated it. We now have one of the best relationships we've had as a community with the community, San Luis Rio, Colorado, just south of the border because --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Did you make Mexico pay for your wall?
NICHOLS: That actually is before Mr. Trump has been in office so obviously no, that did not happen.
COSTELLO: Obviously not. But I'm just saying you possibly have this good relationship with Mexico and things are working for Yuma because you sat down and you figured it out. It's not saying that I'm going to build a wall and I'm going to make you pay for it whether you want to or not. NICHOLS: Well, if you look at what Mr. Trump is saying, he says
there's a lot of different ways to make that happen. Writing a check is one of the ways that seems to get the only attention, but he talks about visa fees, he talks about different things. When you have --
COSTELLO: But that wouldn't --
NICHOLS: Half a trillion dollars --
COSTELLO: That wouldn't be Mexico paying for the wall, would it?
NICHOLS: Well, we have half a trillion dollars in an economic engine happening, that's how you pay for the wall. You find a way through that system as opposed to taxing Americans that maybe don't have that engagement with the trade with Mexico. You utilize that exchange of dollars day to day to find a way to pay for the wall.
COSTELLO: OK, so you still support building the wall but not necessarily making Mexico pay for it.
NICHOLS: Well, I support definitely building the wall because it's worked amazing in Yuma. Things are operating better than they ever have. Who pays for it? That's up to Mr. Trump when he balances his budget and figures out how to fund his programs.
COSTELLO: All right. Mayor Douglas Nichols, from Yuma, Arizona, thank you so much for joining me this morning.
NICHOLS: Thank you.
COSTELLO: You're welcome.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump unleashing a new line of attacks against Clinton and her family's foundation. But the Clinton camp is not backing down. Their response next.
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[10:16:01] COSTELLO: It may be Donald Trump's most effective line of attack against Hillary Clinton, accusing her of blurring the line between the State Department Foundation.
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TRUMP: It is impossible to figure out where the Clinton Foundation ends and the State Department begins. It is now abundantly clear that the Clintons have set up a business to profit from public office. They sold access and specific actions by and really for, I guess, the making of large amounts of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And Mr. Trump is using an Associated Press report for ammo. That report says more than half of the private citizens Hillary Clinton met with during her tenure as secretary of state were donors to the Clinton Foundation. But the Clinton camp is fighting back. It says, quote, "This story relies on utterly flawed data. It cherry- picked a limited subset of Secretary Clinton's schedule to give a distorted portrayal of how often she crossed paths with individuals connected to the charitable donations to the Clinton Foundation."
So let's talk about this now. Joining me now is CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany, Democratic strategist and Clinton supporter Keith Boykin, and senior politics reporter for U.S. News and World Report, David Catanese.
Welcome to all of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Keith, I want to start with you. "USA Today" is calling for the Clinton to shutter the foundation now, asserting that if Mrs. Clinton doesn't do that, quote, "She boosts Trump's farcical presidential campaign and if she's elected opens herself up to the same kind of pay-to-play charges that she was subject to as secretary of state."
So, Keith, why don't the Clintons just give it up?
KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think that she should close down the foundation nor do I think the foundation should close even after she's president -- if she's elected. I think the foundation should continue its work but she should distance herself from it. And I think --
COSTELLO: How so? Like how does she do that?
BOYKIN: Well, in the same way that you create a blind trust for business partnerships, you could create some sort of distance where she has no relationship with it, her husband has no relationship with it. That's for them to decide. But the reality is I think that the Clinton Foundation has done good work and will continue to do good work, but for the idea that because there were 85 meetings out of 1700 meetings that she had that may have been with people who contributed to the Clinton Foundation doesn't really prove anything. There's no evidence that she made --
COSTELLO: Oh, but perception is reality, Keith.
BOYKIN: Perception is important but it doesn't show that -- there's no evidence and I don't think the AP story even contradicts it. There's no evidence that she made any decisions because of those meetings. And these are people who she probably would have met with as secretary of state anyway. You have to keep in context here. Muhammad Yunis, for example, you know, who was a Nobel Peace Prize, is somebody who the secretary of state would meet with. Melinda Gates from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is someone who a secretary of state would meet with. I don't think that these are unusual meetings for a presidential candidate or for a secretary of state to have a meeting with.
COSTELLO: So, Kayleigh, Democrats are fighting back by saying you know what, the Clinton Global Foundation does do good work. It provides vaccinations to needy kids around the world. It -- and you know it provides AIDS medication. It provides schooling for girls all over the world who find it difficult to get any form of education. So what happens to those things if the Clinton Foundation were to be just shut down?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the Clinton Foundation partners with the Gates Foundation so the Gates Foundation can continue doing all of that good work. But the problem with the Democrats' arguments and really I should say Clinton supporters' argument is that it's contradicted by members of their own party. You have Democratic Governor Ed Rendell saying this needs to shut down. You have the "Huffington Post." You have "The Boston Globe."
COSTELLO: "Boston Globe." Right.
MCENANY: You know, these are credible organizations that are not affiliated with the right, that are saying there was, you know, wrongdoing or at least, you know, the notion or the appearance of wrongdoing going on here.
The bottom line is when you have the government, you should have the American people who are the priority. "A portion of this transcript has been removed because a reference was made that the Crown Prince of Bahrain was a donor to the Clinton Foundation. However, the Crown Prince has not personally donated to the foundation. Instead, the Kingdom of Bahrain has donated between $50,000 and $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation, not the prince himself." Foreign billionaire donors, I should say. "A portion of this
transcript has been removed because a reference was made that the Crown Prince of Bahrain was a donor to the Clinton Foundation. However, the Crown Prince has not personally donated to the foundation. Instead, the Kingdom of Bahrain has donated between $50,000 and $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation, not the prince himself." --
[10:20:06] COSTELLO: Well, we should also add that Donald Trump donated $100,000. Right?
BOYKIN: $100,000 from Donald Trump.
COSTELLO: Right? So was he playing pay-for-play? Because Mrs. Clinton could make that argument.
MCENANY: No. I -- I have not seen any e-mails to that effect, but you do have a Bahrain prince --
COSTELLO: But you know what I'm saying, right?
MCENANY: You had a Bahrain prince who tried to get access through the normal channels who's unable to get it and went through the Clinton Foundation.
BOYKIN: Wouldn't the secretary of state of the United States meet with the prince of Bahrain?
MCENANY: Not -- but look, he tried to go --
BOYKIN: Isn't that a typical type of meeting?
MCENANY: Sure, it is. But then he tried to go through normal channels. This is -- and I encourage viewers to go look it up. The e-mail says -- I know you don't want me to finish it.
BOYKIN: Go ahead. You finish.
MCENANY: He tries to go through normal channels to get the meeting. He was unable to get the meeting through normal channels. It was suggested he went through the Clinton Foundation and that is how he got the meeting. And that is the problem.
BOYKIN: Was there any suggestion -- are you suggesting that Clinton made any decisions as a result of that meeting?
MCENANY: I think so. I think he got access is the point.
BOYKIN: Can you prove it? Can you point to a single -- a single decision she made --
MCENANY: Access is the point. It's an argument Bernie Sanders made.
BOYKIN: -- as a result?
MCENANY: It's an argument Donald Trump is making. Millionaires and billionaires get access.
BOYKIN: But this is just throwing up speculation and --
MCENANY: It's not.
BOYKIN: It has no credibility coming from Trump supporters or from Donald Trump himself when the guy hasn't released his tax returns and who knows what he's doing, what kind of shady business dealings he has, what kind of relationships he has --
MCENANY: Do you have proof of that? You don't.
BOYKIN: No, we don't, and that's the thing because they have no transparency --
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: But Democratic Governor Ed Rendell is crazy? Is he crazy for --
BOYKIN: No, he's not. But we have no information from them.
COSTELLO: So I'm going to stop you guys and I'm just going to bring David into the conversation. So --
BOYKIN: I'm sorry.
COSTELLO: No, I was enjoying it myself really. It was great. But, David, what do you think, what should the Clintons do? Because obviously this is gaining traction.
DAVID CATANESE, SENIOR POLITICS WRITER, U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT: Look, this is a problem that underlines the perceptions that people have had about the Clintons for years. That they're secretive, that they help their friends and that they're willing to blur lines no matter what, out of defiance and arrogance.
I would just ask Keith. He says the foundation should continue to stay open, even after a Hillary Clinton presidency takes place, if that takes place. Do you think it's OK if a billionaire foreign donor gave money to the Clinton Foundation and then two weeks later asked for access with a meeting to the president of the United States? Would that be OK for you? Would you think that's ethical and fair and a good way to perform government?
BOYKIN: Well, like I said before, I think the Clinton Foundation should be separated from a Clinton presidency if she were elected --
CATANESE: There's no way -- how do you do that when her husband -- how can you separate them? There's been no firewalls put in place --
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Well, David, I'm not sure about how you do that in the future. I'm talking about, you know, what goes on, what will take place if she was elected. But I think you have to put this in historical --
CATANESE: But that's the entire question.
BOYKIN: If you talk about --
CATANESE: They have --
COSTELLO: She was supposed -- she was supposed to do that when she was secretary of state.
BOYKIN: But the thing is --
CATANESE: They put forth no plan on how to address this in the future and now we are two months, and a half month from the election, and only a couple of months until the next president. And there have been no -- there's been no proposal on how the Clinton Foundation eventually shuts down.
BOYKIN: And let me just -- let me just --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Let Keith respond. Keith, respond.
BOYKIN: I agree there should be some sort of standard going forward about what's going to happen and I don't know that they were ever violated in the past. But I think you also have to put this in context. We've never had a secretary of state who is married to a former president before or a first lady -- CATANESE: Right, which means --
BOYKIN: Well, just let me finish, David.
COSTELLO: So let Keith Finish --
CATANESE: That means you take more extraordinary steps to make sure there's no conflict.
BOYKIN: Yes, we're breaking --
COSTELLO: OK. Let David -- let Keith finish.
BOYKIN: We're breaking new ground here so we have to -- we have a president of the United States married to a former first lady and a secretary of state and a senator. Of course they're going to interact with people on a different level than you and I would interact with.
CATANESE: Right.
BOYKIN: I don't necessarily think that there are always shady dealing because they're doing that. And I think the problem is that people assume they're blurring the lines. But no, there's not always a blurring of lines. It's just that sometimes you're dealing with people who are at a different level from the normal interactions of the people having it. I don't necessarily think historically there's anything inappropriate about the meetings that she's had.
COSTELLO: Kayleigh, last word, and I want to go. Kayleigh.
MCENANY: He just makes the problem of what is the problem with Washington elite and Washington insiders. She's signed an agreement saying there would be no blurring of lines between the foundation and State Department.
BOYKIN: And she didn't violate it.
MCENANY: There were. She signed an agreement saying she --
COSTELLO: But there's no proof.
MCENANY: She did --
COSTELLO: There's no proof. There are questions, but no proof.
MCENANY: There are e-mails. People should go look up the e-mails and see that --
BOYKIN: Do you have proof? Do you have proof?
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Even the AP article says there's no proof.
MCENANY: Yes. Yes.
BOYKIN: Where is it?
COSTELLO: Where?
MCENANY: Go read the e-mails.
BOYKIN: Then show me the proof that she violated the rules.
MCENANY: I did. I know you don't want to hear it but the prince of Bahrain did not get access through the State Department. He suggested he went through the Clinton Foundation. He did that and he got access.
BOYKIN: You said that before. But -- I said show me the proof that she violated the rule.
MCENANY: I just gave you the proof.
BOYKIN: That's not proof that she violated the rules.
MCENANY: There is supposed to be --
BOYKIN: And it's not proof that she made any decisions that were inappropriate.
MCENANY: There is a supposed to be an iron wall between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department, there was not.
BOYKIN: I just don't think Donald Trump should be making his argument considering his lack of transparency, you know, so.
COSTELLO: I think David's face says it all. All right. I have to leave it here. This argument will no doubt continue for many days to come.
All right, thanks. Kayleigh McEnany, Keith Boykin, David Catanese, I do appreciate it.
[10:25:04] Just ahead in the NEWSROOM, a desperate search for survivors going on right now in Italy. An earthquake crumbling entire towns and killing more than 70 people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The latest now on our breaking news out of central Italy. The death toll just keeps rising after a powerful earthquake struck overnight. At least 73 people now reported dead. And it is feared that number will climb higher. More than 1,000 people have been displaced. The 6.2 magnitude quake demolished an entire town and badly damaged others. The region where this quake struck is filled with summer tourists and vacationing Italians. Rescue workers, survivors, search --
