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Trump Military Speech; Trump Refuses to Apologize; Trump's Tax Returns. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 07, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:23] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. You're watching CNN.

Moments ago Donald Trump detailed what he would do if and when he is elected commander in chief. This is a big run-up to his first official event with Hillary Clinton tonight. It's being billed as a commander in chief forum. They won't be on the same stage, but they will be facing the very same crowd. And no doubt these presidential contenders know that absentee voting, folks, begins in one week. One week. And a lot of people are sending in ballots that early. A lot of them are active duty service men and women.

And talk about the veterans here in a speech today, Trump said he would boost defense spending, pumping up troop numbers, battalions, ships, cruisers, submarines, et cetera. And he laid out his plan for rebuilding the nation's military. And he ripped into the foreign policies of Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I will ask my generals to present to me a plan within 30 days to defeat and destroy ISIS. This will require a military warfare but also cyber warfare, financial warfare, and ideological warfare.

What have we gotten from the horrible, horrible decisions made by Barack Obama and Secretary Clinton. Libya is in ruins. Our ambassador and three other brave Americans are dead. And ISIS has gained a new base of operations.

This reduction was done through what is known as sequester, which you've all heard about, or automatic defense budget cuts. Under the budget agreement, defense took half of the cuts, even though it makes up only one-sixth of the budget. So they put it all on defense. As soon as I take office, I will ask Congress to fully eliminate the defense sequester and will submit a new budget to rebuild our military. It is so depleted. We will rebuild our military.

Hillary Clinton has taught us really how vulnerable we are in cyber hacking. That's probably the only thing that we've learned from Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Trump surrogate Peter Hoekstra, former congressman from Michigan, who once chaired the House Intel Committee. And also with us today, CNN military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Gentlemen, welcome.

I know you both had a fiery conversation before that speech today. So let's get reaction to the speech now.

General, to you first. You know, this notion that Donald Trump wants to task these - the generals and give them 30 days to come up with a plan to defeat and destroy ISIS, you know, when he says when he's elected commander in chief. What do you say to that?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I've already spoken about that, Brooke. It was a very interesting speech. Mr. Trump outlined a lot of the "whats." He did not outline a lot off the "hows." As he went through the litany of things that are going on, certainly some of the things that he - that he really presented were things that are very well known. In fact, we in the military call them BFOs, blinding flashes of the obvious. It's stuff we know about that are occurring in terms of challenges with enemies and friends all over the world.

But again, what he didn't present - or at least what I didn't see him present, is any of the "hows" to fix them. When he talked about the military capabilities and outlined several of the brigades and the battalions and the air wings and the number of ships, I think most of that was probably coming from the American Heritage Association. That's fine. But again, I'm not sure Mr. Trump would know the difference between a brigade and a battalion if someone asked him and the reasons why those numbers are so important and why they haven't been executed at those numbers over the last several years as the military has been forced to downsize because of congressional sequestration.

BALDWIN: General, I hear you loud and clear and I'm sure a lot of folks in the military would agree. And, congressman, I'm coming to you in just a second. But just the fact that he spoke in that sort of military vernacular in the weeds, have you heard Hillary Clinton do that?

HERTLING: I have not. And I'm not sure it's necessary in the weeds. Again, we all know that there is a necessity for a certain size of the force. I don't think the president is going to get involved with the number of brigades or battalions in the - the -

[14:05:04] BALDWIN: But, general, people knock Donald Trump constantly for not being specific. He was specific today.

HERTLING: He was and he was also reading off a teleprompter. I would love to have a one-on-one conversation with him to actually ask him if he understood half the things he was talking about.

BALDWIN: Congressman, I'd love to have you jump in and respond.

PETER HOEKSTRA, TRUMP SURROGATE: Well, that's a very disappointing analysis. You know the - Donald Trump has laid out a very specific plan, to take a military, which is broken, which has not had the kind of readiness that it needs to kind of face the threats that the United States faces today, a resurgent threat in Europe because of what is happening with Russia and how this administration has allowed Russia to come back. The threat in Asia. We saw a president having a very disappointing trip into China where America was not treated with respect. And, of course, then the issues in the Middle East and in Africa.

What this - what this candidate has outlined is what we need to do to rebuild the military so that we can confront these threats and face these threats and be effective in the field. He's also asking for a strategy that says, after this administration with Secretary Clinton has laid out a plan to confront ISIS in Libya and we lost (ph). It was a gamble.

BALDWIN: Well, we'll get to Libya in just a second. Let's get to Libya in just a second.

HOEKSTRA: Yes, we lost.

BALDWIN: But let me follow up with you, congressman, because here's where I'm a tad confused is that, you know, we've heard Donald Trump for, what, 16 months, more or less, saying he has a plan to defeat and destroy ISIS. It's a secret plan. And then you now juxtapose that with the fact that he's saying, OK, I'm going to task these generals and I'm going to give them 30 days to come up with a plan. Which is it?

HOEKSTRA: No, the - you know, I met with Donald Trump and Donald Trump very clearly has articulated to his - to his national security advisors what he wants to accomplish in defeating ISIS and has set a parameter. What he's now going to do is he's going to go to the generals the day that he is sworn in as president and say, OK, now that I have the - have access to all of the intelligence that I need, that I can get ground truth from the generals who are there - not the kind of cooked intelligence that this administration has been asking for, put that all together and with all of your background and experience that I don't have access to right now. I have access to some of it, but not all of the best information -

BALDWIN: Sure.

HOEKSTRA: Come back and lay out a strategy within those parameters.

BALDWIN: Congressman, you mentioned Libya, so let me just get to that. You know, Trump criticized the U.S. intervention in Libya. He's criticized it in Syria. He's criticized it in Iraq. But for Iraq and Libya, he, at one time, advocated for Americans to go in. Here is what he has said specifically on Libya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I can't believe what our country is doing. Gadhafi in Libya is killing thousands of people. Nobody knows how bad it is. And we're sitting around. We have soldiers all over the Middle East, and we're not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage. And that's what it is, it's a carnage. We should do, on a humanitarian basis, immediately go into Libya, knock this guy out very quickly, very surgically, very effectively and save the lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Congressman Hoekstra, that was Trump in his own words.

HOEKSTRA: Right.

BALDWIN: Which is it?

HOEKSTRA: Well, no, let me make two very - two points very clear. And I wrote a book on Libya and I did a very careful analysis of what was going on. The first thing, this was citizen Trump, and he was being fed the narrative by the Barack Obama and Clinton administration that said there is a massacre and there is a genocide and there's brutality of unprecedented proportions going on, on the ground in Libya. It was a false narrative. It was not accurate in describing what was going on.

The people who had the real intelligence, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, made a decision. And this is the key point. They had all the intelligence. They had all the information. They knew who the anti- Gadhafi people were. They decided to partner with them. The focus needs to be on Hillary Clinton's decision, Barack Obama's decision to go into Libya, to take out an ally that was fighting jihadist and stabilizing northern Africa. They were successful. That's not hard. They took out an ally of the United States. And ever since then, Libya has been a cesspool exporting weapons, fighters, ideology, into northern Africa and allowing for a flow of weapons and migrants into the soft underbelly of Europe. It was a catastrophic failure of decision making by the Obama administration.

BALDWIN: General, back over to you.

HERTLING: Well, it's interesting, again, Congressman Hoekstra was part of the congressional oversight as part of the Intelligence Committee for all these things that were going on at the time.

[14:10:01] HOEKSTRA: Actually, that's not even true. Just, excuse me, I was not in Congress at that time.

HERTLING: I think there's - I think there's quite a bit of hyperbole - I think there's quite a bit of hyperbole in Mr. Hoekstra's comments on many of these things. And I'm - I personally just don't see it the same way. I have a great disagreement in terms of the way he's painting the intelligence picture and what went on in Libya from the standpoint of a guy who was in Europe at the time when the Libya operation went down.

BALDWIN: Congressman?

HOEKSTRA: I mean it's just - you know, where are the facts wrong? BALDWIN: Quickly.

HOEKSTRA: Was there a genocide going on? The answer is no. Did we partner with the Muslim Brotherhood and radical jihadist groups to overthrow an ally? The answer is yes.

BALDWIN: OK.

HOEKSTRA: The third part of this story is, was Libya a success story, a failure? It's a catastrophic failure.

BALDWIN: OK. Congressman and general, thank you both so much.

HOEKSTRA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Meantime - thank you - Donald Trump keeping quiet about a conspiracy he helped fuel years ago, whether or not President Obama was in fact born in the United States. Trump was just asked if his role in the so-called birther movement is hurting his support among African-American voters in this country. And keep in mind, this came just a couple of hours after one of Trump's closest advisors, friends, call upon him to apologize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think it's time for Donald Trump to acknowledge that all that birther nonsense was a mistake and to apologize?

DR. BEN CARSON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that would be a good idea. Absolutely. I suggest that on all sides. Let's get all of the - you know, the hate and rancor out of the way.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX ANCHOR: Do you think your birther position has hurt you among African-Americans?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't know. I have no idea. I don't even talk about it anymore, Bill, because, you know, I just don't bother talking about it.

O'REILLY: No, I know. But it's there. It's on the record, you know.

TRUMP: I don't know. I guess - I guess with maybe some. I don't know why. I mean I don't - I really don't know why. But I don't think - very few people - you're the first one that's brought that up in a while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He said that on Fox. He said that on the plane. You know, he doesn't talk about this birther movement anymore. But he has never corrected, nor has he apologized for his comments. This all started during an appearance on "The View" all the way back in 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I really believe there's a birth certificate. Why - look, she's smiling. Why doesn't he show his birth certificate? And, you know what? I wish he would because I think it's a terrible pall that's hanging over him.

Barack Obama should end this and he should provide the public with a birth certificate. And if he doesn't do it, he's doing a tremendous disservice to the public.

Let's just see what, you know, perhaps it's going to say Hawaii. Perhaps it's going to say Kenya.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barack Obama, born in the United States.

TRUMP: Let me just -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he?

TRUMP: I'll tell you -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a meatball!

TRUMP: I know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hanging out there!

TRUMP: I mean, really -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just, right there! Come on!

TRUMP: I don't (INAUDIBLE). And you want to know, I don't talk about it anymore.

You know who questioned his birth certificate? One of the first? Hillary Clinton.

There's something going on. Look, there's something going on. And the words are not often OK, by the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean, there's something going on?

TRUMP: There's - there's just bad feeling. And a lot of bad feeling about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in my friend and colleague, senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, on all of this. And let me throw something into this. I just heard in my ear, and you just read on your - your -

: Yes.

BALDWIN: That his - Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, is - he was asked about this in a gaggle and he said, yep, Obama was born in the U.S. NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. Yes. And

this is yet another way that Pence has been splitting on many issues, at least some issues, from Donald Trump. He's going to release his tax returns, for instance. Donald Trump probably won't before this election is over.

But, yes, I mean this is something that continues to haunt Donald Trump, right? In 2012, he was king of the birthers. I mean he was the one who was saying that - that Obama - essentially there's something going on, fueling this conspiracy theory about Barack Obama. He also offered a $5 million sort of gift to charity if Barack Obama was going to release more of his records. And this was right in the - in - before the 2012 campaign, in October of 2012.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HENDERSON: And so this is something that has been constant. And there's also, you know, Donald Trump, in some ways, is a conspiracy theorist about other things as well, whether it's this birth certificate thing or even a Ted Cruz -

BALDWIN: So is there something to it to say, I'm not talking about it anymore, therefore all of those who sort of, you know, whose support he garnered when he was in the thick of it, he doesn't want to lose them, because you know he's going to be asked about this at the debate.

HENDERSON: Yes. And this seems to be his pat response, that it's over and done with, that -

BALDWIN: But it's not.

HENDERSON: I don't think it is, in the sense that I think people questioned his judgment and sort of what was the political strategy behind bringing this up anyway in 2012 when he was sort of going to think about running in 2012. So, yes, I think it continues to dog him.

[14:15:06] Listen, I don't think it's the chief reason that African- Americans aren't supporting Donald Trump. I think the chief reason is policy. African-Americans going back to the 1930s had pretty much been in alignment with Democrats in terms of policy, in terms of their view of the federal government having a more activist role in the country. So, listen, I doubt he'll ever apologize. It would probably just help in terms of people -

BALDWIN: Nip it in the bud before the debate.

HENDERSON: Yes, just nip it in the bud and this idea that he -

BALDWIN: You don't think he will?

HENDERSON: I don't think he will, because it's not - you know, unless we consider his vague apology, saying that, you know, he has a few regrets about things that he's said that has hurt - that have hurt people, maybe that's included in this. But, again, you know, he has - he has, in some ways, fueled conspiracy theories. Not only around this, but Ted Cruz's father.

BALDWIN: Right.

HENDERSON: I mean this idea that somehow he was involved in the JFK assassination.

BALDWIN: Right.

HENDERSON: It plays well in a certain segment and beyond that it doesn't help him.

BALDWIN: It just makes news when Ben Carson says he should apologize, right?

HENDERSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Nia-Malika Henderson, good to see you. Thank you very much.

HENDERSON: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump, by the way, just issued a challenge to Hillary Clinton, give me your missing e-mails and I'll release my tax returns. My next guest says Trump's reason for not releasing them is 100 percent bogus. We'll debate that.

Plus, the head of one of America's most famous businesses just endorsed one of the candidates. Find out who Starbucks is backing.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:24] BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. Thanks for being with me.

Sixty-two days, folks, and counting until Election Days. Calls for Donald Trump to release his tax returns, they are growing louder. His running mate, Mike Pence, is actually expected to release his own tax returns in basically the next day or so. But as for Donald Trump, here is what he has to say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: As far as my taxes are concerned, the only one that cares is the press, I will tell you. And even the press, I'll tell you, it's not a big deal.

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS: You don't think there are any voters out there who -

TRUMP: I don't think so, no. I think - I think people don't care.

When the audit is complete, I'll release my returns. I have no problem with it. It doesn't matter.

Let her release her e-mails and I'll release my tax returns immediately.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He said that the American people don't care about his tax returns. And, in fact, he's also said that it's none of our business. I just think he's dead wrong. I'm going to continue to raise this because I think it is a fundamental issue about him in this campaign that we're going to talk about in one way or another for the next 62 days because he clearly has something to hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, Trump might think voters don't care, but a new Monmouth University poll tells a different story. You see the number here, 62 percent of registered voters say it is important for these candidates to release their tax returns. "Newsweek" senior writer and columnist Kurt Eichenwald could not agree more. He joins me now with Betsy McCaughey, a Trump supporter and former lieutenant governor of New York.

So nice to have both of you on.

And, Kurt, let me just begin with, you know, you're right, you say, let's not pretend, Trump is hiding something. What might that be, according to you?

KURT EICHENWALD, SENIOR WRITER & COLUMNIST, "NEWSWEEK": His marginal tax rate. The amount he gives to - in charitable contributions. I mean the - the reality here is that Trump is lying. There is information he can release that is not under audit. That being the first two pages of his 1040, and his Schedule A. These are the things - it's sort of like saying, here's the list of chapters in a book, and him saying, I can't show it to you because my book is under review. Nobody is looking at the chapters. And Trump can disclose the broad confines of his - of everything we would want to know about his - about his financial condition and his financial involvements without doing anything to affect an audit.

BALDWIN: Betsy, is Trump lying?

EICHENWALD: If he can -

BETSY MCCAUGHEY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: No. It I'd like to point out what your guest just said. He says he wants to know about Trump's financial condition. But as the law requires, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have released their financial disclosures. Trump's ten times a detailed -

EICHENWALD: Oh, Betsy, don't be ridiculous.

MCCAUGHEY: Let me - let me - no, let me just finish.

BALDWIN: Let the lieutenant governor finish.

MCCAUGHEY: Trump's ten times as detailed as Hillary Clinton's. If you want to know about either candidates' financial conditions, you don't see it in a tax return as anyone who's ever filled out a tax return knows. It doesn't list your assets and liabilities. It only lists your current income.

BALDWIN: Kurt, you say that's ridiculous.

EICHENWALD: Let me - let me start by throwing one question at - Betsy, let me start by throwing one question at you. There are 580 some odd entities that are listed in Trump's financial disclosure. Of them, a large number of them, he is only a limited partner. You say it's disclosed. Who are his other partners?

MCCAUGHEY: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Let me point out. You will not find out -

EICHENWALD: Who are the general partners? Who are the people he's involved with? Let me finish, Betsy.

MCCAUGHEY: You - do not pretend that you know what limited partnership tax returns look like and you would not see those in Schedule A.

EICHENWALD: I'm not asking for the tax returns. I'm asking for him to disclose who his partners are.

MCCAUGHEY: Let me just finish, please. Let me just finish.

BALDWIN: Do you have an answer to his question, lieutenant governor, over the partners?

MCCAUGHEY: Yes, I do have an answer to his question.

EICHENWALD: Tell us who they are.

MCCAUGHEY: What he's really engaged in is something the Democrats call tax shaming. And this is it. He and others in the media want to see what Donald Trump's marginal tax rate is, how much of his income he paid in taxes, because politicians generally pay the top rate. They only have paychecks and speaking fees, whereas business people, like Mike Bloomberg, former mayor of New York, and others, have property tax deductions, depreciation allowances, investment tax credits, capital gains rates, all of the things the Congress created to incentivize businesses to take risks. But when those business people take those risks and use those deductions -

EICHENWALD: So what. So show us what they are.

MCCAUGHEY: Stop interrupting me. You're very rude. When they take those deductions, they take pay a lower rate. And as "The New York Times" indicated in its very biased editorial, they're already salivating at the fact that Donald Trump would pay a lower rate, as if paying more than you legally owe is somehow virtuous. It isn't.

[14:25:06] BALDWIN: Let me - let me - let me jump in, if I may, if I may, if I may. The issue is about the audit, right? But my question with regard to the transparency and the tax returns is, why doesn't Donald Trump show proof of an audit? Because everything I've read - and, Kurt, you can agree or disagree - I've seen no proof, no evidence of that.

EICHENWALD: I agree. MCCAUGHEY: Oh, yes. No, no, he has demonstrated -

EICHENWALD: We - we have actually -

MCCAUGHEY: Let me finish. He has demonstrated that he is under audit. But let me be clear -

BALDWIN: But let me -

EICHENWALD: Hold on, hold on, hold on.

BALDWIN: If I may - if I may - if I may - if I may - hold on - hold on --

MCCAUGHEY: If you want to know what Donald Trump's financial status is -

EICHENWALD: We - "Newsweek" -

BALDWIN: Hold on. Hold on. On the - on the audit note -

MCCAUGHEY: Take a look at his financial disclosure form.

EICHENWALD: "Newsweek" has been -

BALDWIN: Guys, on the audit note, if he's saying now that Hillary Clinton, that he would - he would release his tax returns if Hillary Clinton shows those e-mails, doesn't that then infer that there would be no audit and he would then release his tax returns? I'm just - I'm just - I'm confused.

MCCAUGHEY: I hope he won't because those tax returns will be picked apart for the next 62 days and what most voters should want -

EICHENWALD: So what's he afraid of?

MCCAUGHEY: Listen. What most voters should want to know is what their reportable income is going to look like for the next four years, not what Donald Trump's is.

BALDWIN: Let's let Kurt respond.

MCCAUGHEY: The fact is that Hillary Clinton's economic plan will push us into a recession. Donald Trump's will mean higher reported income for almost everyone.

BALDWIN: Kurt, jump in.

EICHENWALD: Well, several things here. Number one, "Newsweek" has been pushing for the Trump campaign to release the IRS notice of audit for weeks. They refuse. We have been pushing for them to release the two pages of the ten - first two pages of the 1040 and the Schedule A. They refuse. Betsy is saying, oh, it's because they're so frightened that what people will see and what they'll do with them. You know, let me just - let me just say one thing. Betsy, when we were talking about Obamacare, you started talking about Edward Snowden types hacking people's information and sending it out on the Internet, people's personal medical records. You say nonsense. Everyone has released their tax -

MCCAUGHEY: I have no idea what your personal attack is about. That is ridiculous.

EICHENWALD: I can show you what you wrote. It was nonsense. I wrote about it.

MCCAUGHEY: But let me - let me point out -

EICHENWALD: Let - let me finish.

MCCAUGHEY: Let me point out -

EICHENWALD: Let me finish. Let me finish.

This is information that every single presidential candidate has released. Trump can release these three pages, even if they're under audit, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect the audit. And if you're saying he's not doing it because he's afraid of what people will say -

MCCAUGHEY: Let me point out that when Michael Bloomberg ran for mayor three times in New York, he did not - he's -

EICHENWALD: That's (INAUDIBLE) something.

BALDWIN: Short - short answer, Betsy, Short answer, Betsy. Why doesn't he do that?

MCCAUGHEY: Yes, I'm just pointing it out now. When Michael Bloomberg ran for mayor in New York three times, he was the darling of the left. He did not release his tax rate, his taxable income.

EICHENWALD: He was running for mayor!

BALDWIN: This is the presidency of the United States.

EICHENWALD: He wasn't president of the United States.

MCCAUGHEY: I'm pointing out why. If you would kindly not interrupt me, I'm pointing out why. Because this demand for tax returns, which is not part of the law, is a system rigged by politicians to shame business people who pay a lower rate than people who have ordinary income through a paycheck. That's exactly what it's about. And I hope Donald Trump does not fall for it.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

EICHENWALD: Unfortunately, Betsy thinks the American people are stupid and can't see so that -

BALDWIN: We have to leave it. Oh, we have to leave it. Kurt, we will look for you later on CNN tonight. Betsy McCaughey, thank you.

EICHENWALD: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Wow. Wow.

Coming up next here, he is - his jersey, now the most popular in all of the NFL after a controversial decision not to stand during the national anthem. What Colin Kaepernick says he will do with the money from those jersey sales.

Plus, he is one of the most politically outspoken executives in America. And now Howard Schultz is taking sides in the 2016 race. Howard Schultz as in Starbucks. He talks to Poppy Harlow. We'll have that for you coming up.

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