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In a Highly Charged Political Climate, Will Americans Turn to Violence if Their Preferred Candidate Does Not Win? ISIS Continues to Force Civilians into Mosul, Likely to be Used as Human Shields as the Fighting Continues. Lynn Povich, Author of "Good Girls Revolt," Talks About What it is Like as a Woman I the Workforce Today. Aired 10:30- 11a ET
Aired October 28, 2016 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: I'm grabbing my musket, you in? Walsh talked with CNN this morning about what exactly he meant by that tweet. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE WALSH, FORMER ILLINOIS CONGRESSMAN: When I said, "Grab your musket," I meant, look, if Hillary Clinton wins, if she wins fair and square, then the anger that a lot of Americans have toward our political system - and she's part of that - we got to double down and triple down and do whatever we can to defend our freedom. (END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: So let's talk about this. Maria Cardona is here. She's a Clinton supporter. Alice Stewart also joins me. She's a former communications director for the Ted Cruz campaign, and she's going to vote for Mr. Trump. And Jason Bellini is a senior producer for the Wall Street Journal. Welcome to all of you. MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Good morning. Jason, I want to start with you because you've covered these Trump campaign rallies. So when you're talking to people about this and they mention revolution, what do you think they mean? JASON BELLINI, SENIOR PRODUCER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: What do I
think they mean? Sometimes it's hard to discern whether that's rhetoric or whether people are talking literally about it. And I think people are waiting to see what happens in the election, also what kind of cues they get from the candidate himself, who said he'll leave us in suspense if he were to lose - Donald Trump were to lose on election night, what will he being saying in terms of whether this was a fair election. Because I think that's where a lot of these people are coming from is that if Hillary Clinton is elected, their perspective is that she is corrupt and if there's election fraud she would be illegitimate and so it would be incumbent upon them to, as you heard that one person say, a person I interviewed say, do something. And some people are saying things that could sound rather alarming. COSTELLO: So if you fervently believe that Hillary Clinton is a crook and she jimmies the system in order to succeed at every turn, then these people are saying it is their civic duty to carry out some sort of civil disobedience? BELLINI: Some kind of civil disobedience and, I mean, we hope that there isn't someone that's unhinged out there who would do the unthinkable, but when we are ratcheting up the rhetoric like this, those kind of concerns start to come more to the fore; whether we create an environment where people will feel like to do something of violence would be received by many other of their peers as heroic. COSTELLO: So, Alice, what do you think? Because when some people
hear this kind of rhetoric, their mind automatically goes to some sort of violence. Do you think that will really happen? ALICE STEWART, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TED CRUZ: I think the people that we just showed are reflective of a very, very small facet of the republican party. And, look, I have 100 percent complete confidence in the election process. And it's important to keep in mind that elections are run state by state and each state oversees their election process. And I think it will be a free and fair election. And at the same time, I think to their concerns, if Hillary Clinton were to win, I think that's a rallying cry to republicans. And hopefully, whether it be Donald Trump or Reince Priebus to use this as an opportunity to rally the republicans together and rebuild the party and focus on what we're going to do for the midterms. And also use this as encouraging republicans in congress to be a check and balance if Hillary Clinton were to win, and not to use it as an opportunity for violence. I think those people are a very small voice in the republican party. COSTELLO: Well, and you know, Maria, everybody thought there was going to be violence at the republican national convention; there was no violence. I was there. I saw the protestors. They didn't have violence on their minds. So this might just be talk. MARIA CARDONA: Let's hope so, right, Carol? I mean I agree with
Alice that I do think it's a small percentage of people. I'm glad that she is saying that she is 100 percent confident in our electoral process and I know many republicans have said that and repudiated Donald Trump's irresponsible talk of a rigged system. But let's also admit here that Donald Trump's rhetoric has fed into the kind of language that we are seeing, you know, from this small percentage of Trump supporters. It has fed into the kind of passion that they feel about his winning and about, you know, their unfortunate feelings about Hillary Clinton. But I think at the end of the day, I am going to have confidence in, not just the electoral process, but in the American people that they will understand and know that the democracy that we have here in this country is something to be valued over everything. But Donald Trump has a responsibility to ratchet down the rhetoric of rigged elections, to ratchet down the rhetoric of lock her up, to ratchet down the rhetoric of inciting violence at his own rallies, and focus on making sure that whatever transition happens, that it is smooth. COSTELLO: Right. OK, so there's a tiny sign that at least Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, is concerned, because he came face-to-face with an Iowa voter who had some very strong comments about a possible Trump loss and here's how he responded. [10:35:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UKNOWN FEMALE: And I don't want this to happen, but I will tell you for me personally, if Hillary Clinton gets in, I myself, I'm ready for a revolution because we can't have her in. MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Don't say that. UNKNOWN FEMALE: But I'm just saying it. No, you know, I'm like Trump. You know, I might as well(ph) speak for people here. Join I'm not staying with two sides(ph), come on. PENCE: There's a revolution coming on November the eighth, I promise you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So, Jason, Mike Pence appears to be trying to tamp down emotion. BELLINI: I mean I think to be fair you have to say that there are people on both sides who are saying the opposing candidate is a threat to democracy. That's the environment that we're in right now. And also feeding into this are the daily WikiLeaks information that's coming - that's, you know, raising peoples' concern about the corrupt Washington ways and they're just confused. I think many people are. Where do you channel that if you end up losing the election? COSTELLO: And that brings up, you know, say Hillary Clinton does win
the election, Alice, how do you govern in that kind of climate when there's a certain segment of the population who thinks you're a crook, right? And then there's a certain segment of the population who just doesn't like or trust you? STEWART: Well, regardless of who it is, it's going to be a difficult time. Clearly, Donald Trump has tapped into tremendous frustration amongst many voters and he's given them a voice to speak out and speak their mind in this election and regardless of who it is, with all of the anger and the emotion surrounding this election, it's going to be difficult for them leading. And I hope that however it is, whether it's Donald Trump or it's Hillary Clinton, given all of the information we have coming out about both of them over the last several weeks and months that they do bring about new leadership in this country that is more bipartisan in nature. I don't think Barack Obama has done a good job at bringing both sides together and working for consensus on many, many issues. So whether it's Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, I hope we see some type of leadership that helps to bridge the divide which has been so great in this election, because we need to see this country coming together. COSTELLO: And, Maria, I think that many people agree with Alice, but
they don't see that happening with either candidate. CARDONA: Well, I mean, I will see this. One of the things that
Hillary Clinton had going for her in the senate, and many republicans have said this, is that she really did have the ability to work across the aisle. And many republicans senators will say that and still do say that to this day. And this is something that she has been talking about on the campaign trail. She's the one who's talking about bringing people together. She is the one whose slogan is stronger together, making sure that we lift each other up instead of tearing each other down. So again, the candidate's rhetoric really does matter, and Trump is the one who has focused on splitting us. He is the one who has talked about rigged elections. He has even talked in a not so nuanced way about, "second amendment people" taking care of Hillary Clinton if she's elected. That is not the kind of rhetoric that we need here. This is a moment where your leadership skills really are either visible or people understand that you are unfit to lead. COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Maria Cardona, Alice Stewart, Jason Bellini, thanks to all of you. Still to come in THE NEWSROOM: ISIS fighters once again targeting innocent civilians as the battle for Mosul grows bloodier. We'll take you to the front lines next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:40:00]
COSTELLO: Innocent civilians, once again the target of terrorist fighters. ISIS is forcing tens of thousands of families into Mosul. The United Nations says they'll very likely be used as human shields. This as Iraqi forces move to just within miles of the city center. Nick Paton Walsh is on the front lines. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the last Iraqi special forces position before the hit ISIS' front lines here and we are just within two kilometers of the city limits of Mosul; in fact, seven kilometers from the very city center itself. This really is where exchanges of fire occur hour by hour with ISIS militants who are, in fact, using, behind the berm here a truck, it seems, to occasionally pop up in position and then open fire. In the distance behind me over my shoulder is where they've seen ISIS, in fact, moving around quite simply between the houses where they are. Kokjali(ph) is the key town. In the distance, that is Mosul, really. Inside its city limits we hear from residents that ISIS are amassing car bombs in that area to move forward down the road and perhaps attack these positions. These are Iraqi's elite golden division, American-trained, good equipment, and they're tasked with the difficult task of moving into that urban sprawl at some point in the future. But at this stage, their exchanging mortar fire regularly with ISIS here, seeing some of their most rugged and determined fighters at the end of their scopes here and gearing in for potentially lengthy and bloody fight ahead. But so close to Mosul here, a substantial job left ahead. At this point, they're still sizing up and trying to soften those ISIS positions that have been in there for months, just across the dust behind me. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, near Mosul. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right, thanks to Nick Paton Walsh. Coming up in THE NEWSROOM: Female reporters working their sources, tracking down leads, breaking stories; no big deal today. Up next: Meet one of the trailblazers who made it possible. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:45:00]
COSTELLO: Eleven days from now, Hillary Clinton will be spending election night under a glass ceiling. And I mean that literally. Win or lose, her campaign says she will make a speech from under the panes at New York's Javits Convention Center. And win or lose, her run has been historic; the first female presidential nominee of a major party. So it's a bit jarring to think that just 45 years ago, this was actually happening in major American newsrooms. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNKNOWN FEMALE: That was me. He did write a court story. I rewrote it. UNKNOWN MALE: What? UNKNOWN MALE: Girls do not do rewrites. UNKNOWN FEMALE: Why not? UNKNOWN MALE: That's simply how we do things here. We have rules, protocol. UNKNOWN FEMALE: Those rules are dumb. If copies good, it's good.
COSTELLO: That's a clip from the new Amazon series, Good Girls Revolt. It's fiction, but it is based on the real story of 46 women who sued Newsweek for sex discrimination in 1970. Lynn Povich was one of those women. She's also the author of the book the new series is based on, The Good Girls Revolt: How the Women of Newsweek Sued Their Bosses and Changed the Workplace. Nice to have you here, Lynn. LYNN POVICH, AUTHOR "GOOD GIRLS REVOLT": Thanks so much Carol. COSTELLO: So when you look at that scene from the show, what goes
through your mind? POVICH: Well, you know, we were told straight out, if you want to
write go someplace else. Women don't write at Newsweek. And so people who wanted to write, like Nora Ephron, actually left very early, way before this series takes place. Because she knew she wanted to be a writer and she wouldn't get promoted. [10:50:12] COSTELLO: But there were other women in the newsroom like you who, like, fought the good fight. But it still, it must have taken a lot of courage to launch this lawsuit against Newsweek. POVICH: Well it did. And it was also a matter of when we realized it was illegal. For some reason, five years after the Civil Rights Act, we actually didn't realize it was illegal to segregate jobs by gender. And I think that motivated a lot of us. Like, it's not just bad, it's actually illegal. And so we did organize. And we had to do it secretly because we were afraid we were going to get fired at any moment. COSTELLO: And even if the lawsuit was successful, there's a chance you'd still lose your job, right? POVICH: Well, they can't fire you after you file a suit, but they can certainly phase you out. And unfortunately it's happened to too many women. COSTELLO: Yes, we were looking at some pictures of you from when you worked at Newsweek, so we bring you back(ph). You know, when I was reading about this and when I was watching parts of the new series, it brought me back to 1983 when I started my career. I started in a tiny town in Ohio. I think I was the first female anchor that station ever had, and of course I was on the weekends. And I also had to do the weather. And I also produced the newscast and I was very low paid. And I think that women still suffer from lower wages than men, even today and that's something difficult for younger women to fathom. POVICH: It is. I mean, women are still learning to negotiate for themselves because, you know, they're penalized if they're too tough. They're penalized. If they go in with lower salaries, it affects their salary for the rest of their life. So it's really important to learn how to negotiate. COSTELLO: Let's talk a little bit about dumb(ph) history because
Hillary Clinton is the first woman who was nominated by a major party in the United States. And you do hear a lot of women say, "We're glad that a woman was nominated, but why did it have to be this woman?" POVICH: Well, you know, I think in Hillary's defense Hillary has
fought for the issues that women really care about for a long time. I mean, Joe Biden says, you know, when she was, even before public office, she was working on women's issues, on family issues, on reproductive issues; on all of the things that many of us care a lot about and that are never raised in presidential campaigns. So I give her a lot of credit. I think Obama was right when he said she's the most qualified person in the race. COSTELLO: Some of the names she's being called - you know, she's
being called a crook. You know, a lot of people chant, "lock her up." and I think more women don't enter the world of politics because they don't really want to deal with that. POVICH: Yes, it's still a problem for women and who would have thought that sexual assault would dominate our conversation in a presidential election. So on the one hand it's horrible and horrifying to see that it still exists. On the other hand, I do think the silver lining is that it's made a lot of women mad, and particularly younger women who may not have been wanted to be called feminists or whatever. They get it and they're really angry now. COSTELLO: So if this election really does boil down to women versus men and women voters really do decide the election, what does that say about women in America? POVICH: Well I think it's not just women versus men. I think a lot of men will vote for Hillary as well. And certainly Donald Trump has some women supporters. But I think for the whole country we're at a very divisive point between whether you call them republicans or democrats or men and women it's a very volatile time. But, you know, I have my confidence in the younger generation, and I think younger men actually get it and want to be involved in raising their children and have had not only sisters but co-ed roommates. I think this generation of men is going to make a difference. COSTELLO: Lynn Povich, thank you so much. POVICH: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: I appreciate you being with me. Still to come in THE NEWSROOM: The standoff over controversial pipeline project heating up: More than 100 arrests are made as protestors clash with police. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:55:00] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 58 minutes past. A wild scene erupts at the site of a controversial Dakota access pipeline. Police in riot gear using pepper spray and a high-pitched siren to try to break up a crowd of protestors. At least 141 demonstrators were arrested after setting up an encampment of tents and teepees to block the pipelines path. They claim the land being used for the pipeline rightfully belongs to a Native American tribe. A University of Wisconsin student facing more than a dozen charges in
connection with alleged attacks on five women. Twenty-year-old Alec Cook appeared in court yesterday. Police arrested him last week after another student accused him of sexually assaulting and grabbing her so tightly by the hair and neck that "her vision started to go." Police say within a week dozens more women came forward with potential information about Cook. A major drug bust at sea, five suspected drug smugglers have been
caught with 6000 pounds of cocaine in a mini submarine. The Coast Guard in San Diego is releasing video of last month's bust. It happened in the Pacific Ocean off Central America and the drugs were worth more than $73 million. Smugglers tried to sink the sub just before they were caught. The Coast Guard says they've intercepted more than $5 billion work of cocaine since last year. Wrigley Field, ready to party like it's 1945. It's been 71 years
since the Chicago Cubs have hosted a World Series game. Tonight they take on another Cinderella team, the Cleveland Indians. The series is tied at a game apiece. It should be so exciting and kind of chilly because you see they're wearing winter caps. But, hey, it's Chicago, Cleveland what do you expect? Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now. JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm John Berman. KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan.