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Trump Wants Civil Trial Delayed Until After Inauguration; Giuliani: Blind Trust Laws Don't Apply to President; Trump Considering a Special Session to Repeal Obamacare; Trump: Mexican Wall May Include Fencing; Moore: Protesters are "Mad at the System"; Anti-Trump Protests Underway Across the Nation; How Trump's Feelings About Putin May Impact Policy; The Muslim Community Reacts to Trump Win; Anthony Bourdain Goes Back to Japan. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 13, 2016 - 15:00   ET


[15:00:00] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Donald Trump will soon make some very big decisions as president- elect, selecting his chief of staff among them. Trump campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, telling many reporters this morning the announcement is imminent.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Yes, it is. Imminent means coming soon and perhaps Mr. Trump is up there making a lot of important decisions, taking accounts of many people. I think he can't go wrong with the decision.


WHITFIELD: Also happening soon, the president-elect is set to receive his first two top level intelligence briefings. Trump will learn about the nation's most secretive intel gathering programs and U.S. spying operations overseas.

But the timing of all of this is playing a part in Trump's ongoing legal woes as well. His attorneys in the Trump University lawsuit have asked the federal judge to postpone this month's trial until after Trump's inauguration. The attorneys arguing the trial would take time away from Trump's "critical and all-consuming transition process."

Meanwhile, protests against the president-elect are entering a fifth straight day. Thousands marched in major cities across the U.S., not even backing down overnight. We'll continue to monitor these demonstrators as they progress throughout the day.

All right, so one of the biggest issues facing President-elect Trump is what to do with his sprawling business empire when he takes office. Trump has vowed to turn the business over to his children but some worry that would create possible conflicts of interest and are calling on Trump to place the business in a blind trust. On CNN's "State of the Union with Jake Tapper", Trump adviser, Rudy Giuliani, said it would be wrong to expect Trump family members to not run his business.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a big issue ...


TAPPER: There's a big issue at play here as you prepare for the Trump administration. I know you're more than cognizant of the fact that Donald Trump has hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars and businesses and business interest around the nation and throughout the world. During the campaign he was asked what he would do with his businesses if he won. Take a listen.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: If I become president, I couldn't care less about my company. It's peanuts. I have Ivanka and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company, kids. Have a good time. I'm going to do it for America. I would be willing ...

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS ANCHOR: So, you'll put your assets in a blind trust?

TRUMP: I would put it in a blind trust -- well, I don't know if it's a blind trust if Ivanka and Don and Eric run it but is that a blind trust? I don't know.

TAPPER: I'll answer that question. That's not a blind trust. If your kids run your businesses, it's not a blind trust.

In a blind trust, there's an independent trustee who takes over your portfolio and directs it without your input or any input from anyone around you.

Do you think that to avoid any conflicts of interest, not to mention questions by public as to whether he's making decisions at least in part for his own financial reasons, do you think it would be best for Mr. Trump to set up a true blind trust with no involvement from him or his kids?

GIULIANI: Well, first of all, you realize that those laws don't apply to the president, right? So, the president doesn't have to have a blind trust. For some reason, when the law was written, the president was exempt.

I think he's in a very unusual situation. He would basically put his children out of work if -- and they'd have to go start a whole new business, and that would set up the whole -- set up new problems.

So, it would seem to me that if he set up a situation in which the children will running it, there was a legal or clear document that meant that he would not be involved, he would have no interest in it, he would have no input into it, he would just have a passive interest, that would be the kind of thing that would work here. It's kind of unrealistic to say, you're going to take the business away from the three people who are running it and give it to some independent person. And, remember, they can't work in the government because of the government rule against nepotism.

So, he would be putting them out of work. So, I think you're going to have to fashion something that is very comfortable, something that's fair, something that assures the American people, as he said, he has no interest in what's going on in the business, and that his children get to run the business they know how to run.

TAPPER: Right.

GIULIANI: And stay out of all government matters.

TAPPER: Well, but, Mr. Mayor, I mean, his children are, you know, as I don't need to tell you, they are a huge part of his advisory committee. They are advising the transition, Ivanka, Don Jr., and Eric.

Jared Kushner, Ivanka's husband, is being talked about as coming on board and working at the White House, even if he is not paid for it.

If he does not set up and truly blind trust, how can the American people have confidence that when he makes a decision, that he isn't at least partly making it to enrich himself?

[15:05:04] GIULIANI: Well, even if he turned it over to a independent trustee and it was the Trump Corporation, you can't -- I mean, there's no perfect way to do this.

You have to have some confidence in the integrity of the president. The man is an enormously wealthy man. I don't think there's any real fear of suspicion that he's seeking to enrich himself by being president. If he wants to enrich himself, he wouldn't have run for president.

So, I think there could be a way to do this.

Once he gets in the government, they will not be advising him. I mean, they'll be -- there will have to be a wall, there will have to be a wall between them with regard to government matters and something I'm very familiar with from my days in the Justice Department, which is recusing yourself from decisions that involve you or any financial matter involving you.


WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk more about this and the empire of the Trump family.

Let's take a closer look at this blind trust for starters. Joining me right now is CNN contributor and law professor at the University of Texas, Steve Vladeck. Good to see you.

OK. So Steve, Rudy Giuliani saying this blind trust a lot does not necessarily apply to the president. Is he right?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: So, technically, he is right. I mean the federal as it flows -- yeah, no, I mean, the federal as it flows that govern how most federal employees can or cannot be involved in financial information -- financial transactions outside of their public job, don't apply to the president and vice president.

So, at least legally, our President Trump really is not bound by those rules. But I think the larger point is practically and politically, he probably is because it would just look bad if you had a president who was making policy decisions, foreign policy decisions, signing bills that either would or would not directly impact the value and the successes of his former businesses now administered by his children.

So, it's not that the law would preclude it, is that I think common sense, good judgment and political ramifications should preclude it.

WHITFIELD: And then help explain a blind trust. What constitutes a blind trust? How does it work?

VLADECK: Sure. I mean, this is what Mitt Romney did back in 2012, to assuage similar concerns that if you were elected president, there would be issues with paying capital.

The idea behind a blind trust is that you have this -- all of these assets, all of these companies manage by someone who is wholly independent of and indeed unknown to the person whose assets they were to begin with.

So, the company would go on ...

WHITFIELD: And that would not be your family members.

VLADECK: And that would not be family members. I mean, that would defeat the purpose of it being blind.

WHITFIELD: Being blind.

VLADECK: And so, I think the idea is it avoids even the specter of a conflict of interest if the businesses and all of these assets are being managed by someone who is not under the direct or even theoretical control of the president of the United States.

WHITFIELD: So then, what potential conflicts do you see by Trump's children who are also advisers on his transition team? They've been advisers during the campaign and them continuing to run the businesses of Trump.

VLADECK: Sure. I mean I -- just to give you one very specific example, there's a building that Donald Trump through one of his businesses owns in New York, where the Bank of China is actually one of the principle holders of a mortgage note, right? The Bank of China, the national bank of the Chinese government. So, is it possible that when President Trump is thinking about how he might conduct economic policy with China, it might somewhere in the back of his brain weigh on him that the Bank of China's stability and health and success is kind of important to this loan that's guaranteed in this building?

You know, that's the kind of concern that we have in this context. Of course, we trust our elected leaders to have better judgment to not be -- how do I say, led astray by those concerns, but the whole point is the appearance of him propriety. And I think that's why you see all of this effort to suggest that these assets should be put into a blind trust so I would have a federal anti-nepotism statute, not because the president can't be trusted but because you don't want to have a situation ...

WHITFIELD: The appearance.

VLADECK: ... where critics could -- exactly, right, where critics could look at and say that smells funny.

WHITFIELD: So, all of this needs to be done before the swearing in, and if not, then what?

VLADECK: Well, again -- I mean, Rudy Giuliani is exactly right that the federal ethics laws don't apply to the president and vice president. So, we're not talking about President Trump having broken the law, let's say on his first day of office just by not divesting his assets.

But I think the political ramifications could actually be quite significant, especially on Capitol Hill. You know, the Senate is going to be confirming President Trump's nominees to all kinds of senior positions, including senior positions in the Treasury Department and other areas where finances are key. Those confirmation hearings could be a flash point if President Trump is not moving as quickly as members of Congress would like to distance himself from his business empire.

WHITFIELD: And so, would Donald Trump have to, not only just divorce himself from the business of Trump but just the fact his name is on all of these properties around the world, does that still potentially lead to a conflict of interest that you just laid out?

[15:10:11] VLADECK: I mean -- it could, yes. I mean, so the real question is whether he's or an incumbent, you put it in a blind trust, his decisions are not going to have a bearing on how much income is being earned, how particular decisions by the U.S. government affect the value of those properties.

WHITFIELD: All right, Steve Vladeck, thank you so much. I appreciate it from Austin, Texas.

VLADECK: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Donald Trump is considering a special session to repeal Obamacare on the very day that he has sworn into office. The bold prediction coming from Trump's campaign manager this morning.


CONWAY: He also has talked about convening a special session on January 20th after he is sworn in as president of the United State to do this very thing, to repeal and replace Obamacare. It would be a pretty remarkable move.

So, what you see with Donald Trump is what you get. And I believe that's why the voters gave him this election and this mandate.


WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in CNN's Chris Frates to talk more about this.

So, Chris, you know, does Trump need a special session to try to repeal Obamacare? How realistic the day of inauguration after swearing in?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From what you just heard from Trump campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, they're saying that a special session would be remarkable. That's true, but it would also be unnecessary and it suggests that Trump and his team maybe don't really understand how Congress works. Congress is in session all year long. So, they don't need a special session to repeal Obamacare.

And, you know, Trump's also making some policy news on the immigration front this weekend. His policy positions on that hot button issue kind of been all over the map during the campaign and it seems to continue into his transition. And that big beautiful wall Trump so famously called for on the campaign trail, well, it could now be part fence.


TRUMP: For certain areas I would, but certain areas, a wall is more appropriate. I'm very good at this. It's called construction. But the fence will be ...

LESLEY STAHL, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: So part wall, part fence?

TRUMPP: Yeah, it could be -- there could be some fencing.

STAHL: What about the pledge to deport millions and millions of undocumented immigrants?

TRUMP: What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, we've a lot of these people, probably, two million, it could be even be three million. We are getting them out of our country or going to we're going to incarcerate. But we're getting them out of our country. They are here illegally.

After the border is secured and after everything gets normalized, we're going to make a determination on the people that you're talking about who are terrific people.


FRATES: Now, that sounds a lot like what Trump said on the campaign trail back in June when he said he's "going to get rid of a lot of bad dudes who are here." But Trump also talked about creating a deportation force to round up and remove the 11 million undocumented immigrants who are in this country illegally. But House Speaker Paul Ryan told early to Jake Tapper today that neither lawmakers nor Trump are planning to create that deportation force. He says that they're focused more on border security, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Frates in Washington, thanks you so much.

All right, so we're just 68 days now from inauguration. As the President-elect builds on his future administration, he also has to figure out what to do about dozens of active lawsuits against him. We'll discuss that, next.


[15:16:45] WHITFIELD: All right, Donald Trump's lawyers want his scheduled November 28thTrump University trial postponed until after inauguration in January.

President-elect Trump is at the center of three civil cases by former students who accused the school of defrauding them out of thousands of dollars. Trump's lawyers filed the delayed documents in federal court last night and they argue that he simply doesn't have the time.

His lawyer writing yesterday, "The 69 days until inauguration are critical and all-consuming. President-elect Trump must receive daily security briefings, make executive appointments, ultimately thousands, and establish relationships with appointees, members of Congress, governors and foreign leaders."

So, let's bring back CNN contributor and law professor, Steve Vladeck. All right, good to see you again, Professor.

All right, so that plea that a job -- this transition is all- consuming. What are the chances that a judge no less the same judge that Donald Trump was very critical of in the past, that a judge would appease this kind of delay request based on that kind of excuse?

VLADECK: Yeah. I think the chances are slim to none, having nothing to do with who the judge is or his prior history with Donald Trump. I think the real problem here is a 1997 Supreme Court case called Clinton versus Jones, actually arising out of the Paula Jones suit against President Bill Clinton, which expressly rejected the argument that a civil suit against someone who becomes president based on conduct that happened before they were president should be put on hold because of the rigors of the job and because of how busy the president is.

If the Supreme Court said unanimously just 19 years ago that the answer to this question is no, it's hard to imagine a federal district judge all of a sudden turning around and agreeing with Donald Trump that the answer now should be yes.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness. OK, so conceivably, we could have a president-elect or at least the trial underway involving the president-elect before his swearing in. Now what about the case of whether it's -- whether he would have to testify and ...


WHITFIELD: ... you know, whether excusing himself, especially on the condition of this all-consuming transition would be advisable?

VLADECK: Yeah, no, and the Supreme Court in that same case, actually when obviously to say just because the lawsuit can go forward doesn't mean that the president or in this case, the president-elect should be treated like an ordinary litigate. So there's very much a possibility that the court will not necessarily require Donald Trump to testify or at least in person that accommodations will be made as best as possible to take account of how busy his schedule is and how great his responsibilities are.

But I think the problem with the filing that Donald Trump's lawyers made yesterday is, yes, he's very busy now, but he's only going to become busier on January 20th once he's sworn in as president. So unless you're going to put this case on hold for the entire duration of his presidency, which is exactly what the Supreme Court in 1997 said should not happen then it's not true -- it's not clear why as president-elect the burdens are more demanding than once he actually inherits the Oval Office.

WHITFIELD: So, what's the advantage in your view that his attorneys are seeing by delaying it if that's the case what you just said?

[15:20: 02] VLADECK: Yeah, I mean, I think -- I guess, you know, if they can delay it now perhaps once he's president, they can renew these arguments and actually suggest that now that he's actually in office ...

WHITFIELD: He'd become busier.

VLADECK: ... that concerns of interfering with them. Exactly, right. And I think this is why it's unlikely this is going to go anywhere because that argument can't work, thanks to this 1997 Supreme Court decision.

Now, maybe the Supreme Court on the far side of the Bill Clinton impeachment, which was a direct result of (inaudible) Clinton versus Jones might be wrong to reconsider that case, but that's going to be up them, not to an individual district judge as in the Trump University case.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor Steve Vladeck, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

VLADEC: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, this, as anti-Trump protests continue across the nation. A live report from New York after a quick break.

Plus, what Michael Moore, the film maker has to say about all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: I was at the demonstration yesterday and there were Trump people there on the sidewalk and I went over and talked to them and I said, "You know, would you have considered voting for Bernie Sanders?" And they said "Yes." They were just mad at the system.



WHITFIELD: All right, last hour, anti-Trump protesters took to the streets for rally in New York where people are still reeling from the outcome of the presidential election. CNN's Bryn Gingras is joining us live.

So, Bryn, you were at that rally, you continue to walk with a number of people, what's the different about today compared to what we saw yesterday there?

[15:25:08] BRYN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one thing is aside, there's still a significant, a big rally here today. Not compared to yesterday, that was enormous but this is still pretty big. There are a lot voices, very loud, but also the purpose is very clear. This is an anti-immigration rally. These people here are saying they deserve to be here and they are against the agenda that Donald Trump ran during his campaign. And that's who we're hearing from. If we take a look around them, we're hearing many different languages being spoken during this rally as we head towards Trump Tower.

We are only about a couple blocks away from Trump Tower. And again, yet another day that Trump Tower will be surrounded by protesters talking about a number of issues, but specifically, again, this one about his immigration policy.

Take a listen to some of the people we talked to who came out today, sometimes they were here yesterday -- some people are here yesterday, others, this is their first time rallying, but certainly, they want their message heard. Take a listen.


NOELLE YASSO, CLINTON SUPPORTER: To me, my purpose is to tell Donald Trump that he can't just deport 11 million undocumented people, that they're here to stay and that we stand in solidarity with them. It's just unprecedented this kind of appeal to hatred and bigotry and that's still hasn't been denounced by the president-elect is just unprecedented I think and so that's -- has got a lot of people angry.


GINGRAS: And that first woman you heard from, she is actually an immigration attorney, she said that's why she came out today because she has a number of clients that have come into her office since Tuesday's election fearful for themselves and fearful for their families and that's why she is here among a number of groups here advocating for similar purposes. So, yeah, there's a lot of messages being said today but particularly immigration the main topic. We're going to continue to follow. We're just few blocks away from Trump Tower front.

WHITFIELD: So Bryn, among the people that you've talked to yesterday, today, are any of them saying they want to hear a specific message from Donald Trump himself or are they looking to hear from anyone in particular, you know, address their calls out there?

GINGAS: Yeah, you know, a lot of people are frustrated. You know, not only frustrated with how this election turned out, but frustrated that the president-elect hasn't come out with any response towards these protests, towards the anger and frustration that all these people are feeling right now.

One man said no matter what, if you're frustrated or not, the point of a democracy is to hear the people. And he says if anything, that's what these protests are for, to have a stance to speak up and to make the message heard because that's what this democracy is about, it's listening to the people and having those elected listen to them.

So, Fred, we'll see if he actually does make some sort of response, and that's what these people want.

WHITFIELD: All right, Bryn Gingras, thank you so much there in Manhattan.

All right, meantime filmmaker, Michael Moore, also took to the streets of the protests there in New York. He was there yesterday morning. And then this morning on "State of the Union" he told Jake Tapper what he thought Democrats should be doing in the future.


MOORE: You know, Democrats would be better off if they ran Oprah or Tom Hanks or -- why don't we run beloved people? Why -- I mean, we have so many of them. The Republicans do this.

They run Reagan and The Terminator and other people. Why don't we -- why don't we run somebody that the American people love, that they are really drawn to and they're smart and have good politics and all that? Why don't Democrats do that?

I'm telling you, Jake, my sincere hope is that the DNC, that there is a clean sweep in this party. They have to-- they all have to go. And they have to make room for the progressive Democrats, who are going to come in here, are going to be needed to fight the things that Trump is going to do to the people of this country and the world.


WHITFIELD: All right, Michael Moore there urging a different approach for the Democrats in the future.

Meantime, House Speaker Paul Ryan delivering an economic outlook under President-elect Donald Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We all laid out very concrete solutions. He's trying to make America more competitive. He's trying to make the American worker more competitive. He's trying to make it so that American businesses stay in America.


WHITFIELD: So, how will Trump's economic plans play out for Americans? Ronald Reagan's economic adviser is here to explain, next.


[15:32:40] WHITFIELD: You're watching CNN. You're in the newsroom. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

So, one of the campaign issues that helped Trump win the election is the promise of a stronger economy. The president-elect has proposed major changes in trade and American tax policy. And during Trump's campaign, House Speaker Paul Ryan has disagreed with Trump's stance on trade and imposing tariffs but here's what Ryan told CNN's Jake Tapper this morning.


TAPPER: If he comes to you and says ...

RYAN: Yes.

TAPPER: ... this is what we're doing, what are you going to say?

RYAN: The point I'm trying to make is, I think we can achieve what he's trying -- he's trying to make America more competitive. He's trying to make the American worker more competitive. He's trying to make it so that American businesses stay in America.

And we believe the smartest and best way to do that is comprehensive tax reform, which actually makes America much more competitive without any adverse effects, without any collateral damage to the economy.


WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk more about this with Arthur Laffer. He is a former economic advisor to Ronald Reagan. Good to see you, Mr. Laffer.



LAFFER: How are you today?

WHITFIELD: I'm doing pretty good. All right, so do you agree with Trump's plan on making American workers more competitive, being able to help spawn more industry in this nation?

LAFFER: Yes, I mean, it's fairly obvious that if you -- we have the highest corporate tax rate in the OECD. We have the fourth lowest tax revenue as a share of GDP, which is a perfect example of the Laffer curve. We're way too high taxes and we don't even get the money. And if we bring those companies back, which bringing that corporate rate from 35 percent down to 15 percent will make the incentives all for bringing jobs back to the U.S. I think it will work enormously, those inversions will stop, and this will inure to the benefit of lots of Americans in many different states.

WHITFIELD: So then, when you look to analysis from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, by the way, you know, Donald Trump's alma mater.

LAFFER: I do, I do.

WHITFIELD: You know, Trump's tax plan, you know, reduces taxes on business as you just laid out, you know, higher income -- and higher income Americans which result in more economic growth. But then in the long run, according to this analysis, the Trump tax plan increases federal debt more than the current policy resulting in less economic growth. Do you agree with that assessment?

[15:34:59] LAFFER: No, they're totally wrong as just playing wrong. There's nothing like economic growth to reduce the deficit and ultimately just stop the accumulation of debt. He's going to get rid of the inheritance tax as well. He's going to reduce personal income tax rates. A 100 percent expensing of capital purchases in the first year.

I mean, what's not to love about that from the standpoint of economics? It's just beautiful. It's exactly what this patient needs in the U.S. We need this type of elixir to get America growing and going again.

WHITFILED: And do you see it as being realistic?

LAFFER: I think it's totally realistic. We did a lot more under Reagan and some of the proposals, I mean, like Jerry Brown when he ran for president want to get rid of all federal taxes and have two flat rate taxes, one on business net sales and one on personal unadjusted gross income. That would have fired us to the moon. I mean, that would have been the best thing ever. So, this is a very reasonable proposal. It's not over the top. And I think it would work beautifully.

WHITFILED: So potentially reducing a tax rate of 35 percent to 15 percent. What more do you know about this tax plan that Donald Trump might be formulating?

LAFFER: Yeah, well, it also has 100 percent expensing of capital purchases, instead of depreciating them over lots and lots of years, it would be a 100 percent expensing, which is also a big stimulant. It also cuts the highest corporate -- personal income tax rates as well. And it gets rid of the inheritance tax which is a huge killer.

I'm 76, Fred, and I've got six kids, I've 12 grandchildren, I've got three great grandchildren. The only reason I work today is for them. And if they put these barriers in there, they're just going to get people like me to go out of the labor force and not work and not invest and that's just makes no sense.

WHITFILED: They were also a lot of campaign promises made by Trump about ...

LAFFER: Yes, they were.

WHITFIELD: ... you know, bringing back factory jobs, many of which, you know, closed in this country going overseas. We know there was a lot of criticism of Donald Trump himself. He had an opportunity to have things made in the USA but then had many of his products made overseas. So, why do you believe that he'll be able to get those manufacturing jobs, those factories to return to the USA?

LAFFER: Well, the reason you'll get them returning is because of the lower tax rates on corporate profits. That's why they'll come back. They'll find it more advantageous to move here. But let me just say very clearly, I don't think protectionism helps America or anyone else in this world.

Free trade is by far the best thing and you cannot punish people into doing something. You know, whenever you punish people, you get them to stop doing something but you don't encourage them to do something. Negative incentives never, never, never work unless you want to stop that activity. You don't bring jobs back by threatening tariffs in my view and I think free trade is by far the best way to go in this world.

WHITFIELD: All right, Laffer, pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

LAFFER: Fred, thank you very much for having me. It's lovely being on your show.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much. Come back. Come back.

LAFFER: Anytime.

WHITFIELD: All right, appreciate it.

All right, straight ahead top Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani explains the president-elect's plans for extreme vetting of Syrian refugees.


GIULIANI: But we would be foolish to allow these people to come into the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:41:46] WHITFIELD: President-elect Donald Trump has been -- has often criticized for his admiration of Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has been criticized for that. But, you know, his team is pushing back against claims that Trump had any conflict and contact with Russian officials during the course of the campaign. Here's what adviser Rudy Giuliani had to say on "State of the Union".


GIULIANI: I know of no such contacts with the Russian government. I'was pretty deeply involved in the campaign as with Donald Trump, you know, day and night for about 100 days actually at one period. So if that's going on, it's going on somewhere where I didn't see it.

It is true that I think Donald Trump wants to engage Russia in areas where we can work together in a way that Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and Barack Obama failed to do. But remember, he's going to do it from a different point of view.


WHITFIELD: All right, I want to bring in Kim Dozier. She is a CNN Global Affairs analyst and a contributing writer for the "Daily Beast". Good to see you.


WHITFIELD: All right, so Kim, so, you know, how might Trump's willingness to work with Putin impact shared concerns between the U.S. and Russia, particularly as it relates to the threat from ISIS?

DOZIER: Well, the warm words between the two leaders could initially lead to a resolution, at least the partial resolution to something like the Syria crisis.

President-elect Trump has indicated that he would be willing to work with Russia against ISIS. And he's even hinted that he might withdraw support to the U.S. backed rebels that are currently working with the U.S. against ISIS. But some of them were also fighting against the Bashar Assad regime.

So, if you see President-elect Trump working with Russia or President Trump working with Russia to accept Russia often staying in power and the two of them turning their forces on ISIS, that's a positive.

The negative part of that could be that these rebel groups that are currently working with the U.S. might then be driven into the arms of the various al-Qaeda linked groups and become an even harder and more intractable enemy to fight.

So, you know, pluses and minuses to that. We also haven't seen how President Trump would react once he's had his intelligence briefings and he understands what Russia does behind the scenes ...

WHITFIELD: And some of that happening this week. DOZIER: It's -- you know, there's one thing reading stuff in the "New York Times" or getting a broad global kind of briefing that he's gotten from intelligence agencies. But when he gets to read the transcripts of intercepted conversations, when he gets to sit down with NSA experts who will explain to him, here's how they're hacking into our data bases, U.S. politicians, U.S. companies, et cetera, that might start to get his hackles up.

[15:45:00] The other thing that has happened also in the past with the Clinton -- pardon me, with the Obama administration is that there was a warmth between the two sides. There was the Russian reset, things seemed to be going well and then Russia invaded Crimea. The Obama administration didn't react very badly to that. Well, they imposed sanctions. But I think a Trump administration, we'll have to see. They might be much harsher in their reactions.

WHITFIELD: And then Giuliani was also asked about Trump's plan to restrict Muslim immigration to the U.S. And this is what he had to say when talking to Jake Tapper today.


GUILIANI: You could do vetting in Egypt. Yemen, a lot more vital, a lot more difficult to do vetting. So I think this is going to be a country by country decision. Pakistan you can do a pretty good vetting.

So a lot of this is going to depend on, you know, how cooperative is the country we're talking about, how many records can we get?

The reason the Syrian problem is so bad the Syrian refugees. It's not just that you can't vet them, which actually Director Comey and I think about five members of the Obama administration have made clear, that you can't vet these people, these refugees from Syria.


WHITFIELD: All right, so the kind of vetting that he is talking about how might this potentially impact foreign policy as a whole?

DOZEIR: Well, if the next administration isn't going to be taking Syrian refugees, they can't really pressure European nations to do the same. They're going to have to work to find a solution in the region, perhaps convincing Turkey, Jordan to take more refugees where they are and also to provide for them.

You hear from agencies like the U.N. that are providing for these people on the ground that countries haven't paid up, haven't given the kind of resources they need to educate and house these people just outside Syria for an eventual return. So, that's a big problem that's going to land on the doorstep of a new Trump administration.

WHITFIELD: Kim Dozier, thank you so much in Washington.

All right, let's take a moment right now. Let's take a look right now outside and this is in Manhattan, where once again, there are anti- Trump protests taking place. Thousands of people marching towards, yet again, Trump Tower. More from the "CNN Newsroom" right after this.


[15:51:07] WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

So Michigan has one of the largest populations of Muslims in the U.S. While on the campaign trail, then candidate Donald Trump threatened a ban against Muslims. And although Trump is said to have won Michigan in the Electoral College, the state is still officially too close to call in the popular vote. But that hasn't stopped many Muslim Americans to speak out about Trump's campaign and what happens next. CNN's Jessica Schneider has more now from Dearborn, Michigan.


JESSICA SCHEIDER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In Hamtramck Michigan, where Muslims make up a large portion of the population, there is widespread uncertainty about a Trump presidency.

Are you angry at the things he said throughout this election?

HASAN ALTAII, MICHIGAN VOTER: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you got to be kind to people.

TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

SCHEIDER: Trump made that promise last December but dialed it back by the time his party's convention convened in Cleveland.

TRUMP: We must immediately suspend immigration from any nation that has been compromised by terrorism until such time as proven vetting mechanisms have been put in place.

The Muslim ban is something that in some form has morphed into an extreme vetting.

SCHEIDER: But tonight, his statement calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States is still on his official website. For some Muslims and many others, the rhetoric crossing the line.

FAYROUZ SAAD, MICHIGAN VOTER: I don't know how he got elected. I'll be honest.

SCHEIDER: Fayrouz Saad's parents immigrated to Dearborn, Michigan from Lebanon. She works on immigration issues at the Detroit Mayor's office and says Trump's divisive rhetoric has made Muslim lives more difficult.

SAAD: I'm definitely angry. I don't want to say I'm fearful, because I still have faith in the Democratic process.

TANIA SHATILA, MICHIGAN VOTER: It's inexcusable the things that he said. It was very shocking just to hear -- it was very scary as well.

SCHEIDER: Tanya Shatila runs this Middle Eastern bakery. She is still hopeful.

SHATILA: We can't stand against him, you know. We have to support him and wish for the best. So, hopefully, he will instill that unity that he's been saying in his speeches ever since he won.

SCHEIDER: Nedal Tamer has a much different view.

NEDAL TAMER, MICHIGAN VOTER: And Mr. Trump should be held as a trophy, as an image of the American dream.

SCHEIDER: Tamer voted for Trump and convinced his family to vote for him, too. As a small business owner, he sees Trump as a role model and believes he speaks from strength. He wants his fellow Muslims to see it the same way.

SCHEIDER: But do you say to them when they have this shock or anger?

TAMER: I say to them, the country is going to be great.


WHITFIELD: All right, that was Jessica Schneider reporting up from Michigan.

All right, coming up in our next hour, we'll talk about what it's going to take to heal a divided nation. NAACP President Cornell Brooks joining me on the task ahead for President-elect Donald Trump. And we'll be right back.



[15:58:06] ANTHONY BOURDAIN, "PARTS UNKNOWN" HOST: Any excuse to come in Japan is a good one.

I feel healthier already.

For a reason, it's awesome.

In this episode, we're going to back to Japan with Masa Takayama.


BOURDAIN: Probably the greatest and most respected Japanese chef in America.

How do I hold a sakana?

TAKAYAMA: No, no, that's woman.

BOURDAIN: Ten years, he said I do it like a girl. His restaurant Masa in New York is certainly the most expensive restaurant in America.

That's so beautiful.


BOURDAIN: And we're going back to Japan with him to find out why. What happens next?

Where it all came from and where it's going.


WHITFIELD: All right, watch a brand-new episode of "Parts Unknown with Anthony Bourdain" tomorrow night, 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

All right, the next hour of the "CNN Newsroom" begins right now.

Hello, again, everyone, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Donald Trump will soon make his first, among his first big decisions as president-elect, selecting his chief of staff among them.

Trump campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, telling many reporters this morning the announcement is imminent.


CONWAY: Yeah, it is. Imminent means coming soon and perhaps Mr. Trump is up there making a lot of important decisions, taking accounts of many people. I think he can't go wrong with the decision.


WHITFIELD: Also happening soon, the president-elect is set to receive his first two top-level intelligence briefings. Trump will learn about the nation's most secret intel-gathering programs and U.S. spying operations overseas. But the timing of all of this, playing a part in Trump's ongoing world right now, the legal woes.