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Immigrants Voice Fears Over Trump Presidency; Interview With Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay; Trump Fills Key National Security Positions. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:27]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Friday.

We begin with a couple significant names here. Donald Trump has filled three posts that are key in defending the nation. Two of the men selected were also key in defending Trump during his presidential campaign.

First up, Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, he had accepted the nomination to become Trump's attorney general. Sessions was the first U.S. senator to announce his support for Trump, but he is dogged with decades-old allegations of racism.

Retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn is another one. He will become Trump's national security adviser. General Flynn, a registered Democrat, often introduced Trump on the campaign trail. And there is Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo. He's up for CIA director.

A source tells CNN the congressman doesn't know Mr. Trump very well, nor did he actually do much campaigning for the president-elect.

Let's fill in some of the blanks here with Sara Murray. She's been following all the ins and the outs of the transition.

Sara, the president-elect, he is expected to leave Trump Tower. Tell us about his meetings today and then of course this weekend.

SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's right.

He's been meeting with Governor Mike Huckabee today, one of the final meetings he's doing before he's heading out to his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, for a weekend of what I have been told are essentially going to be nonstop meetings, some designed to sort of shape his view of how you build a team, what you need to know about certain subject areas, but others are essentially job interviews as he begins to think about how he wants to fill some of these remaining Cabinet posts.

And some of the names on the list for this weekend are very interesting. Obviously, we have talked a little bit about Mitt Romney, who is was big critic of Donald Trump throughout this campaign, but also former Washington, D.C., Public Schools chancellor Michelle Rhee, also General James Mattis.

And I think, Brooke, the key question going into this weekend is whether these meetings are sort of designed for optics, designed to make it look like Donald Trump is casting a wide net and considering people who may not have the exact same ideology as him or whether he's really, really considering these people.

What we have seen from his first round of picks is, yes, even Mike Pompeo doesn't know Donald Trump very well, but their ideologies align very closely. That's certainly true when it comes to Senator Jeff Sessions, and it's certainly true when it comes to Michael Flynn. Both of those guys are really Donald Trump loyalists.

They were out there speaking in his favor when many other people were not willing to do so. So I think a lot of people are wondering is this just a head-fake so Donald Trump can appear that maybe he's interested in moderating his positions, or is he really considering someone like Mitt Romney for potentially a secretary of state?

BALDWIN: Is it for real, is it for show? We shall see. Sara, thank you.

Reactions to Trump's national security choices ranges from complimentary to caustic. Take this tweet from former Michigan Democratic Congressman John Dingell, tweeted -- quote -- "Forget the basket. The truly deplorable ones end up in the Cabinet."

He of course was referring to Hillary Clinton's infamous campaign comment about some of Trump's supporters.

Let's have a conversation here with Manu Raju. He's our CNN senior political reporter. Kevin Sheridan used to be senior adviser on Romney's presidential campaign and also served on the Republican National Committee. And Stuart Holliday served as U.S. ambassador for special political affairs at the United Nations from 2003 to 2005.

So, gentlemen, nice to have you all on.

Manu, I defer to you first just in terms of what you're hearing on Capitol Hill. Senator Sessions, he is a veteran, almost two decades there. How much support does he have? How confident in terms of folks you're talking to could he sail through these confirmation hearings?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there's a very good chance that he gets confirmed, Mike Pompeo gets confirmed. Republicans will be controlling the Senate in the new Congress. They are going to have 52 seats.

And because of the Democratic change of filibuster rules in 2013, now only a simple majority of senators are needed to confirm an executive level nominee. That basically means that they can do it on a party- line vote.

And I can assure you that probably some Democrats will end up voting for both Pompeo and Sessions. So chances are pretty good that those two men will get the jobs they want. Now, that being said, Democrats are vowing a rigorous oversight process.

They said these guys will be vetted very intensely, even if Jeff Sessions is friends with a lot of senators. They said they are planing on looking at his record on civil rights issues and Jeff Sessions' pretty hard-line views on immigration.

[15:05:00]

So, certainly controversies will emerge, as well as controversies over Mike Pompeo's views about surveillance and harsh interrogation techniques and keeping Guantanamo Bay open, things Democrats will want to pursue, but not necessarily enough at least at this point probably to derail a confirmation, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me follow up on one of Manu's points, Kevin, the fact that Senator Sessions did not ultimately pass through the confirmation to become a federal judge in the late '80s because of these allegations of racist comments.

He stands by, says that he is not a racist, but this is something we're really starting to hear, this chorus from the left, this cry. How would you defend him?

KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER ROMNEY ADVISER: Well, I think Democrats will try to make a big deal out of it, and let's just see what the hearings look like.

I think he is likely, as Manu was saying, to get confirmed. The president has a pretty big latitude to get his picks. He always does, and he comes into office with a Senate in Republican hands. So it would be I think unlikely for him to really face any serious opposition.

But we will just have to see what the comments are they want to bring up and what policies they want to focus on in those committee hearings, but I would put my money on him getting through.

BALDWIN: OK. And I do want to follow up with you on this meeting with Governor Romney over the weekend.

But, Mr. Ambassador, let me just turn to you. Also another name, national security adviser, Lieutenant General Mike Flynn, in August, he said this about Islam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (RET.), FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: Islam is a political ideology. It is a political ideology. It definitely hides behind this notion of it being a religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Half of the country fears exactly this sort of rhetoric. You, from a global perspective, are perfect just to ask. How concerning is what he just said? STUART HOLLIDAY, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MERIDIAN INTERNATIONAL CENTER:

Well, I think the role of the national security adviser is really to be a behind-the-scenes air traffic controller of policies that are coming in from various agencies.

If you look at the previous lieutenant generals, Scowcroft and Powell, you didn't see a lot of them out there. They were really managing a process. And I think what you saw there was a reaction to his perception perhaps that the Obama administration wasn't as forward- leaning as identifying what he saw as the root cause of the problem that we face with ISIS and sort of the global terror threat.

And I think he's going to play...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Forgive me, Mr. Ambassador. Let me pivot quickly.

Governor Huckabee is standing and talking to the press at Trump Tower.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: ... terrific job of looking for the best talent he can find for his Cabinet. But, beyond that, I don't have anything to really report to you, because it's not my job to report.

QUESTION: Are you interested in a Cabinet position?

HUCKABEE: You know, I'm happy doing what I'm doing. My job right now is to listen to the president-elect. It's his job to make the decisions. And whatever those decisions are, it's going to be good.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HUCKABEE: Again, that's not for me to disclose.

The only person giving out jobs in this building is president-elect Donald Trump, not me. And I would respect that any information about what our meeting was about, it really should come from him.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HUCKABEE: What is that?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HUCKABEE: Concerned with it?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HUCKABEE: You know, I feel like I'm going to serve my country whether I'm inside or outside of government.

And I'm going to be loyal to Donald Trump because I believed in him as a candidate, stood by him throughout. I'm not looking -- I didn't come here looking for a job and I did not campaign for him because, you know, I was needing work.

QUESTION: What's your reaction to the Jeff Sessions appointment?

HUCKABEE: An absolutely wonderful appointment. I gave it a standing ovation.

Jeff Sessions is one of the, I think, stalwart conservatives in the Senate. He's also been a loyal, faithful ally to Donald Trump throughout this entire campaign. I have always considered him one of my favorite senators. And I appreciate the clarity with which he brought especially to the TPP debate when it was going on, and I think that was a great choice. I was thrilled.

QUESTION: Governor Huckabee, how long was the meeting with president- elect Trump?

HUCKABEE: Three hours. No, I'm kidding.

QUESTION: You got here early.

HUCKABEE: Yes, I was visiting with some other people.

It was long enough and just appropriate.

And I have got to go. I have got another meeting across town. Thank you.

BALDWIN: OK, so, let me just -- this is interesting because obviously you have got the media staked out there at Trump Tower.

Just this time yesterday, gentleman, we were watching Senator Sessions role past those cameras and he was saying, hey, I really enjoy doing the job that I'm doing at the Senate, and, then, voila, we have been reporting today that he's been nominated as A.G.

We know that Governor Huckabee, once a rival of Donald Trump's, wanted to be president. Now he's bandied about perhaps as commerce secretary. We will see what tomorrow brings.

[15:10:05]

Kevin Sheridan, let me just loop back around to you, because you know Governor Romney. We know that he will meeting face to face with Mr. Trump over the weekend. I just talked to Ari Fleischer. And essentially he's not buying it, that this is genuine interest on behalf of the Trump team, that this is show, he was saying to me.

From the Romney perspective, why do you think he's doing this?

SHERIDAN: I think this is a good sign for the country, a good sign for things to come. It's a good sign for Republican unity.

I don't know exactly what the intentions are of Donald Trump in doing this meeting, but I take it as a good sign. I think they have a lot they could discuss. They can discuss the transition generally. They can discuss policies where they overlap. And Governor Romney is a very smart and patriotic leader on foreign policy.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I feel like you're giving me a very diplomatic answer.

SHERIDAN: I am.

(LAUGHTER)

SHERIDAN: I don't know that he will end up getting -- what will come out of that meeting, but I really think that this is a good sign for Republican unity.

Ten days ago, we were talking about the crack-up of the Republican Party. Now we're talking about president-elect Trump sitting down with Mitt Romney. Can you believe it? I think it's good.

BALDWIN: Of course you do. And I agree with you it's incredible what a difference a couple of days makes.

Mr. Ambassador, back to you. Since I have you, you're part of the nonpartisan organization. Seeing how divided the nation is, how do you think these picks that we have seen thus far might help in that unity?

HOLLIDAY: Well, thus far, we have seen people who have been loyal to the president and I think he's been true to his word. I think there are people that will appeal to the voters who sent Mr. Trump to the White House.

BALDWIN: What about the other half of the country?

HOLLIDAY: Well, they're going to have to look.

I think when you look at the completion, I think Ari was mentioning this, that you have to kind of look at the totality, where we're going to be. Michelle Rhee coming in to visit, that would be a dynamic choice, former head of schools here in D.C., Nikki Haley.

But I think at the end of the day there's going to have to be probably a Democrat in the Cabinet. That's been a tradition to reach out, Ray LaHood in the Obama administration, Norm Mineta in Bush. Let's wait and see, but so far obviously he's starting with his base and I'm sure he will move from there.

BALDWIN: Last question, Manu, just from a Democratic perspective on the Hill, given the names Mr. Trump has selected, adding in a Mitt Romney or even a Governor Haley to the mix, what sort of message is that sending to them? Or how are they receiving it?

RAJU: Well, I think they would view it as an effort to moderate, to try to show that they're willing to deal with more establishment- friendly Republicans to move towards the center slightly.

But I am curious to see, Brooke, whether or not these meetings are more optics to showcase there's an effort to try to come to terms with different factions within the Republican Party and move forward with a so-called unified Republican government, and not necessarily to give a position to someone like a Mitt Romney for a secretary of state job because they harbor such different views on some key issues, namely like on Russia.

So it remains to be seen whether or not this is just optics or whether or not there will actually be serious concrete action that could showcase an effort to try to bring some of the people who don't trust Donald Trump into the fold.

BALDWIN: I'm about to sound like my mother, but she always tells me time will tell, Brooke, time will tell.

Manu, Mr. Ambassador, Kevin, thank you all for being voices here on all of this.

And also a programming note to you. Tonight, CNN goes inside Hillary Clinton's historic presidential campaign, the first woman ever nominated by a major party. Correspondents who covered it for us here at CNN, they share their stories in an "A.C. 360" Special. We're calling it "Unprecedented: Inside the Clinton Campaign." It airs 9:00 tonight right here on CNN.

Donald Trump, meantime, expected to leave Trump Tower any moment now. We have got those cameras positioned, live look inside his residence there on Fifth Avenue ahead of his meeting as we mentioned over the weekend with Governor Romney. We will talk to former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, AKA the Hammer, to weigh in on all these picks and more. We will be right back.

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[15:18:12]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's talk about one of the first Republicans to endorse Donald Trump, his support unwavering in even the most controversial campaign moments, and now we're talking about Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions will likely be the next U.S. attorney general.

A source tells CNN Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell plans to support him and help him with that confirmation.

I want to bring in a voice who not only knows Senator Sessions, but is also very versed how things are done on the Hill. While serving, he earned the nickname the Hammer. He is former Republican House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

Congressman, nice to see you. Welcome back.

TOM DELAY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Thank you, Brooke. Great to be back.

BALDWIN: So, let's just begin with the arc of this election and how you had felt about Mr. Trump. You were quoted in March as saying: "Trump will tear the Republican Party apart. If you listen to what he is saying, he wants to be king. He doesn't want to be president."

Ultimately, you voted for him. What made you come around?

DELAY: Well, a couple things.

I have a book that's just out called "Revival, Revolution, Rebirth," and it's about a revolution for the Constitution. So, I was very concerned that Trump wasn't a conservative, that he was -- doesn't know much about the Constitution.

And yet we had to stop Hillary Clinton at all costs. And that's why I voted for him, to stop Hillary Clinton. And now I'm very glad I did because I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about part of that, and congratulations to you and your party for everything that happened in Washington.

Let's start with Senator Sessions. We know Senator Sessions, we know that Democrats of course will raise their voices, as they already have begun, talking about what happened in the late '80s, how he was not able to become that federal judge because of allegations of racial -- racist comments he had made.

[15:20:10]

That said, it's all red on Capitol Hill in the House and the Senate. Do you think he will sail through?

DELAY: Oh, sure.

First of all, the Senate, no matter what they say publicly, is a very collegial body. And they have will to find something really bad for the Democrats to vote against him. And presidents usually get their pick.

But Jeff Sessions is just the perfect pick for Donald Trump. Here's a man of strong principle, a man of faith, a man that stands on those principles and will fight for those principles.

I think it's just a brilliant pick to put him in charge of a Justice Department that has been totally politicized.

BALDWIN: Well, I think half the country would agree you, but half the country, Congressman, is deeply, deeply fearful of what they saw as racist rhetoric from the campaign. You look at Senator Sessions' past.

And, yes, I know this was some three decades ago, but at the time he had charged three civil rights workers, including one of the leaders from the Selma, Montgomery, march, with voter intimidation after black voters were turning out. And the charges were seen as voter intimidation.

That will come up. And in this divided nation, how will that assuage concerns to, say, African-American communities in this country?

DELAY: Well, first of all, I think when people really see Jeff Sessions in hearings on a national stage, they will see the real man.

If the Democrats want to continue to dig the hole that they're in, let them just do this, because the American people will reject them and reject their whole premise that any time you criticize anybody, you're a racist.

That's not Jeff Sessions. And it's not the Jeff session that I know of. And if they want to continue down this road that the American people have rejected, then so be it, they will suffer the consequences.

BALDWIN: On your Grand Old Party, let me just show everyone this cover of "TIME" magazine. This was from March. "What Happened to This Party?" is how it reads. And you see President Reagan and Nancy Reagan.

We talk so much about the civil war and then, poof, we saw what happened November 8. People woke up the next morning with a Republican president and Republican-led Congress. What changed?

DELAY: Nothing changed. What the media...

BALDWIN: You all were at war with one another. It was like the establishment Republicans. Then establishment became a dirty word and the Trump Republicans and are they really Republicans? It was a mess.

DELAY: Well, that's Republicans. We're at war with each other all the time. We're fighting for our principles and what we believe in and we're at war all the time.

What people should have looked at was how the Republicans came together at the convention and wrote one of the most conservative platforms ever written by the Republicans. That is -- that showed you right then and it gave me great heart that the Republican Party is still the Republican Party, even though "TIME" magazine and others wanted to announce the death of the Republican Party.

It was still strong and it won. And it not only one on the federal level. It won on every level. So it was still around. And now it's even more unified than I have ever seen it.

BALDWIN: Well, on the flip side, you have the Democrats. You have Leader Pelosi, who you served with. We learned yesterday that she now has an official challenger, right, in terms of holding on to her post in Tim Ryan. What do you think the Democrats have gotten so wrong?

DELAY: What they have gotten wrong, number one, is they hang on to leaders that lose.

Nancy Pelosi lost the House in 2010. She's lost just about every round that she has fought ever since then. Now she's lost -- well, she gained a few seats,but nowhere near the seats she should have won. If the Democrats continue to support their leadership that loses, they will continue to lose.

BALDWIN: Final question just quickly. Businessman Donald Trump is known for making deals and having things happen like this. You know the pace of Congress. Do you think that will be a rude awakening more him?

DELAY: What's a rude awakening?

BALDWIN: Slow as molasses on Capitol Hill.

DELAY: Oh, well, that's the way it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be slow.

But if they want to speed it up, they can speed it up. Right now, my only concern right now is the Senate. The Senate -- if we win the seat in Louisiana, we will have 52. The Senate still relies on that 60-vote margin. I would hope that people would start putting pressure on the Senate to eliminate that 60 votes, let them filibuster if they want to, that's fine.

[15:25:11]

But that 60 vote gets in the way of moving quickly. And I hope that will change. But I'm really encouraged that the leadership of the House and the leadership of the Senate are standing by their guns.

And being a partner to Donald Trump, not a rubber stamp. I really am encouraged with that.

BALDWIN: Let's remind everyone, your book is "Revival, Revolution, Rebirth."

Congressman Tom DeLay, thanks for swinging buy.

DELAY: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, we will take you live to one of the most diverse neighborhoods in the country. We want to listen, hear how immigrants are coping with fears about the Trump presidency, but, first, a sneak peek at Sunday night's all new episode of "PARTS UNKNOWN." Anthony Bourdain takes us to Buenos Aires, where meat is king.

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