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Secretary of State Pick Tillerson Could Face Showdown on Capitol Hill; Putin: Idea of American Exceptionalism "Excessive"; Interview with Congressman Reid Ribble of Wisconsin. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 13, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I've already bought them. They're in my office.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: See?

COSTELLO: Yes, see.

CUOMO: She got me one, too. It's a muscle.

CAMEROTA: Sorry, Poppy.

COSTELLO: Exactly. It's a big, big box with a big red bow.

CAMEROTA: Bye. Have a great show.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Thanks so much, guys. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me. Donald Trump announces his pick for Secretary of State but diplomacy may be hard to find on Capitol Hill where Senators, on both sides of the aisle, are voicing deep concerns.

Rex Tillerson has no foreign policy experience but as the head of ExxonMobil, the world's largest oil company, he has developed close ties to Russia and its President, Vladimir Putin. And that has unsettled lawmakers and set the stage for what could be the first big fight between the Trump White House and his own party. But sources are telling us Tillerson does come highly recommended to Trump. Those endorsements, former Secretaries of State Condoleezza Rice and James Baker and the former Defense Secretary Bob Gates.

We're covering it all for you this morning. Jason Carroll is live outside of Trump Tower. CNN Senior Political Reporter Manu Raju live in Washington.

But, Jason, let's start with you. Good morning. JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Carol.

You know, a number of GOP leaders are already weighing in, giving their support for Tillerson, people like Paul Ryan and Newt Gingrich. Trump, for his part, tweeting this morning saying, quote, "I have chosen one of the truly great business leaders of the world." Though you also have senators like Marco Rubio weighing in, saying he has serious concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): This morning. President-elect Donald Trump picking ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson for Secretary of State. Sources say Tillerson was recommended by former Republican Secretaries of State including James Baker and Condoleezza Rice. Tillerson chosen after Trump's very public vetting of a string of high-profile candidates including an unlikely courtship with one-time rival Mitt Romney. Sources say Trump called the 2012 GOP nominee personally last night to say it wasn't all a game.

Tillerson's nomination already generating controversy with no formal foreign policy experience. The business titan instead forming close relationships with many world leaders by closing massive oil deals including Russian President Vladimir Putin, sparking criticism from both sides of the aisle.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Anybody who's a friend of Vladimir Putin must disregard the fact that Vladimir Putin is a murderer, a thug, a KGB agent.

CARROLL (voice-over): This as Trump and his top advisers continue to attack the CIA over their findings that Russia meddled in the election.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP: And this smells like politics, plain and simple.

CARROLL (voice-over): Trump's camp offering no proof of their claims as a bipartisan group of Senators calls for a Congressional inquiry.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), UNITED STATES SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I think we ought to approach all of these issues on the assumption that the Russians do not wish us well.

CARROLL (voice-over): President Obama reiterating calls for a review to prevent Russia from impacting future elections.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was not a secret running up to the election. The President-elect in some of his political events specifically said to the Russians, "Hack Hillary's e- mails."

CARROLL (voice-over): Trump's team says he won't interfere with an investigation.

CONWAY: I mean, he's the President of the United States. The legislature can do what it wants. CARROLL (voice-over): For his part, Trump delays a news conference

where he promised he'd addressed how he'll handle the conflicts of interest with his business. Trump tweeting late Monday he will be leaving his businesses before January 20th and two of his three children, Don and Eric, plus executives, will run the companies, notably no mention of his daughter Ivanka, who is likely to step away from the businesses and serve as an adviser to her father. Trump also promising no new deals will be done during his terms in office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And, Carol, Trump continuing to name names to his administration. Gary Cohn will be director of the National Economic Council, Ronna Romney McDaniel, the niece of Mitt Romney, to head up the RNC, and former Texas Governor Rick Perry is said to be the front- runner to lead the Energy Department, a department he once said he would eliminate if he ever became President -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jason Carroll reporting live from Trump Tower this morning. Tillerson isn't a shoe in for Secretary of State. He still needs to be confirmed by the Senate and considering his close ties to Russia, he could be looking at a heated showdown on Capitol Hill. Let's bring in CNN's Senior Political Reporter Manu Raju to talk about that.

Hi, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Hey, Carol. Republicans have fallen in line behind Trump's other Cabinet picks but not Rex Tillerson. Yesterday, majority leader Mitch McConnell refused to discuss the possibility of Tillerson's nomination. Now that it's official, we've already heard reservations from at least four Republicans because of Tillerson's ties to Vladimir Putin in a time that many want to take a hard line on Russia.

[09:05:03] Marco Rubio who sits on the committee that's actually going to consider Tillerson's nomination, issued this statement just moments ago. He said this, "While Rex Tillerson is a respected businessman, I have serious concerns about his nomination." He said that, "The next Secretary of State must be someone who views the world with moral clarity, is free of potential conflicts of interest, and has a clear sense of America's interests."

Now, this is significant because if Democrats stay united against Tillerson on the Foreign Relations Committee and Rubio votes no, that could be enough to derail the nomination because Republicans only have a one seat advantage and that's one reason why, yesterday, the outgoing democratic leader Harry Reid told me that Tillerson's confirmation may be in doubt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), NEVADA: Well, I don't know if he can get 50 votes or not. I think it may be a little hard for him to do that.

RAJU: Do the reports that you're seeing about his Russian connections concern you in any way given Russia's role here?

REID: It's in keeping with Trump. Well, he's already stated he likes Putin better than he likes Obama, so it's obvious he likes Russia. And that's fairly concerning to the world and certainly concerning to America and it's concerning to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, the challenge for Trump is that there 52 Republican Senators, meaning on the floor of the Senate, the Trump team can only limit its defections to three Republican Senators to get him confirmed by the Chamber if all the Democrats vote no. And because of those four Republican Senators who have expressed reservations so far, Trump's team and Tillerson himself have some selling to do on Capitol Hill to close ranks, Carol

COSTELLO: All right. Manu Raju reporting live for us from Washington. So let's talk about all of this and more. With me now, CNN Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny; Elise Labott, CNN Global Affairs Correspondent; and Rana Foroohar, CNN Global Economics Analyst. Welcome to all of you. OK, let's dive right in.

Tillerson, Jeff, has no military or diplomatic experience. This is a history making pick, right?

JEFFREY ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It is, indeed, Carol. He is totally different from the recent Secretaries of State that we've had, without question. He has considerable experience making deals but not diplomacy and that, of course, is the hallmark of any Secretary of State position, about managing those relationships, carrying out the President's wishes with Russia.

And as Manu just reported, this confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill is going to be divisive. It's going to raise all the questions that we've just been talking about. But even more so, now that hacking is in the news, it is going to be a focal point for that conversation as well. It is a separate conversation but, you know, the emergence of Russia as a central issue in our politics here in the U.S. now comes at not an opportune time for Rex Tillerson.

But Donald Trump obviously doubling down here, and he has the support of recent Secretaries of State, Condoleezza Rice among them. But look for a bruising confirmation hearing as we go forward here. And once, if he would happen to get confirmed, an open question about what type of Secretary of State he would be.

COSTELLO: Well, Elise, let me, like, put that to you because Jeff mentioned Condoleezza Rice supporting Trump's pick of Rex Tillerson. This is what she wrote just moments ago, as a matter of fact. She said, "Rex Tillerson is an excellent choice for Secretary of State. He will bring to the post remarkable and broad international experience, a deep understanding of the global economy, and a belief in America's special role in the world." So are critics wrong about Tillerson, Elise?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And, Carol, it's not necessarily unprecedented. You know, you have had very successful Secretaries of State like George Shultz who ran a big corporation like Bechtel. And certainly, Rex Tillerson has a knowledge of the world, international experience in dealing with world leaders, but diplomacy is very different to, you know, business deal making, and, you know, you measure it in different types of terms.

In a deal, you kind of look at profits, but here you're looking at, you know, results in terms of diplomacy. One diplomat said to me, diplomacy has a very long tail and when you hit one thing, it necessarily affects the others. And so it's kind of like this complicated international puzzle of world issues that you have to take into fact.

I've spoken to a lot of diplomats at the State Department. They say perhaps the CEO approach, someone who knows how to negotiate, could shake things up for the better. There are other concerns though, as Jeff mentioned, about Rex Tillerson's relationship with Vladimir Putin and with Russia and also some of the other deals he made around the world.

You know, several years ago, ExxonMobil led by Tillerson was in Iraq trying to work on oil deals there. They dealt with the Kurds as opposed to the central government in Baghdad, and that kind of fostered fears of Kurdish independence. That got a lot of people wrangled up in the State Department. Eventually, everything was worked out and now Exxon is working with the whole government, but there are concerns about a possible culture clash.

[09:10:03] And it also isn't clear how Rex Tillerson feels about the State Department and the very bureaucratic way that they do things and how he would work with Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: Right.

LABOTT: He's been CEO for 10 years. You know, Donald Trump is the CEO now.

COSTELLO: Right, right. And so you're talking about hard-nosed negotiations, right? And Rana, Rex Tillerson, I would suspect he is a hard-nosed negotiator because he made billions and billions of dollars for the Exxon Corporation.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMICS ANALYST: Oh, absolutely.

COSTELLO: But, you know, sometimes diplomacy takes a more delicate touch. Is he capable of that?

FOROOHAR: You know, I'm actually going to push back. I think that the experience of a head of a multinational energy company like Exxon is actually pretty relevant here. I mean, what these guys do, typically, they spend their days and their nights talking to heads of problematic foreign governments.

This is actually an industry, you know, you talked about long tail, oil and gas is probably the most strategic industry, the industry with the longest view. They're looking at 20, 30, 50-year time frames. They're dealing in long relationships with governments in some of the world's hot spots. So I actually think that that experience is very relevant.

I think that where things are going to be trickier maybe in the confirmation hearings are Tillerson's personal business interests. You know, to have this much of a stake in Exxon as a major player in the Russian market, you know, is problematic. And I think that he's going to have to explain that.

He's going to have to show us that he is no more in bed with Putin, you know, or any oligarch in Russia than any other head of an energy company is who's doing business there. And believe me, they're all walking a fine line when they do business there.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Jeff Zeleny, Elise Labott, Rana Foroohar, many thanks.

Still to come on the NEWSROOM, Putin wants to normalize relations with the United States, but a long list of lawmakers say Russia is not our friend. So which is it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:13] COSTELLO: And good morning.

Vladimir Putin says he is ready to meet America's president-elect at any moment although he's a little confused by Mr. Trump's slogan, make America great again. Putin told Japanese television he objects to America exceptionalism. "The United States," he says, "is a great nation, nobody is arguing about that, but I think it's completely excessive and creates certain issues in interaction."

Also, Carter Page, who advised the Trump campaign for six months, appeared on Russian state television extolling the virtues of Trump's pick for secretary of state.

Hi, Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

That's right. Carter Page is a former advisor to Mr. Trump. He's been making his rounds in Russia. He was a pretty much unknown figure in policy circles before his name was dropped by Donald Trump earlier in the presidential campaign.

He's since been dropped by the Trump campaign. But he still sort of comes to Russia as part of the organization he's founded which does business here to talk about policy issues. And he's been meeting the local press here over the past couple of days.

You know, there's a sense in which they believe he's got some kind of insight into what Donald Trump is thinking about Russia. Because there's such an appetite here in Russia for anything Donald Trump has to say for any possible sort of change in policy towards his country, he's getting extremely large audience. Of course, Carter Page very positive on the appointments of Rex

Tillerson as secretary of state. Take a listen to what he had to say to a bunch of local journalists gathered in Moscow last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARTER PAGE, FORMER AIDE TO DONALD TRUMP: There's a lot of rumors out there. I don't have any specific insights into the rumors. I'm really personally excited you know just as one small example -- one major example on one hand, but one of many examples about Rex Tillerson, you know, being awarded the Order of Friendship, the many joint ventures he creates -- worked to create in the Kara Sea, in Black Sea, you know, tide oil, the list goes on.

So, actions speak louder than words. I think there's a lot of ways that we can certainly work together on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHANCE: Carol, after Donald Trump announced his decision on Twitter that Rex Tillerson was his choice for secretary of state, he tweeted again saying this. The thing I like best about Rex Tillerson is that he has vast experience dealing successfully with all types of foreign governments. It's his dealings with the Russian government that are potentially the most controversial, are potentially going to create the most problems when it comes to his confirmation hearings in the Senate.

COSTELLO: All right. Matthew Chance reporting live from Moscow. Thanks so much.

So, let me introduce my next guest, Congressman Reid Ribble. He's a Republican from the state of Wisconsin. He serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Welcome, sir.

REP. REID RIBBLE (R), WISCONSIN: Hey, good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So, let's start with Carter Page. He's an American citizen. He's a one-time Trump advisor. He appeared on Russian state television which is the government television station to tout Donald Trump's pick for secretary of state. How does that strike you?

RIBBLE: Well, I mean, I think the whole Russian connection with Tillerson is something that everyone needs to be a little bit cautious of. It does throw up some red flags, and certainly, Mr. Tillerson should divest himself of his holdings at Exxon so there's no conflict of interest at all.

And then, we have to recognize, I think, Mr. Trump has to recognize -- President-elect Trump has to recognize that Russia's not necessarily a great friend of the United States and has never been held accountable for some of the actions in Ukraine. It has to be both intrigued and a bit troubled.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, Russia's foreign minister, who is the equivalent of America's secretary of state, already sent out a news release saying that Russia welcomes the nomination of Rex Tillerson as U.S. secretary of state and is ready to work with him. He says, "I think both president Trump and the new secretary were not opponents to developments of our relations. On the contrary, people are pragmatic. We expect the pragmatism will be a good basis for building mutually beneficial relationships with Russia."

So, you don't find this coming in from other countries like our strong allies like Germany and the U.K. It came first from Russia.

RIBBLE: Well, yes. I don't know that we should necessarily be surprised at that simply because Exxon is a big player in Russia. Russia's number one industry is energy and so I think that that would be logical.

And we have to remember that these business people that Trump is bringing into the -- into his cabinet, they're typically obsessively self-interested.

[09:20:04] And when you're looking at someone who's going to be secretary of state, particularly in a Trump era where he wants to go with an American first ideology, have somebody compulsively or self- interested in America, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

COSTELLO: Is Russia our friend? Because Senator Mitch McConnell said Russia is not our friend. And he intimated that Mr. Trump should keep that in mind.

RIBBLE: He certainly should keep that in mind. As I mentioned a bit earlier, the fact that Mr. Putin was really a party to the murder of in the Malaysian air shoot down over Ukraine, he has been very involved in the movement of Russia and the involvement in Ukraine in usurping the sovereignty of that nation, it should be very troubling to the United States.

Russia's not necessarily a friend. It does seem that the Trump administration is pivoting towards Asia, as President Obama did, but pivoting toward Russia. And I think that that should give some pause to everyone.

COSTELLO: So, when you say give some pause, are they deeply concerned about Mr. Trump's picks as far as their connections to Russia?

RIBBLE: Not -- it's going to be dependent on what they do going forward. I actually -- like I said, I'm intrigued by this pick because Mr. Tillerson has a really broad foreign experience and he knows a lot of the state department's players, our ambassadors and professional diplomats abroad.

So, I think that level of experience is actually a very interesting benefit for the American foreign policy world and I think he could be very successful at this as long as we don't have conflicts of interest and he deals with those ahead of time. COSTELLO: As far as any sort of congressional investigation into

Russia interfering with our election, are you for such an investigation?

RIBBLE: I am. I'm not surprised that Russians -- the Russian government, the Iranians, the Chinese are trying to hack into our system. That's pretty typical and it's really, quite frankly, a daily occurrence around here.

COSTELLO: But do you believe the CIA when it says that Russia specifically wanted to swing the election to Donald Trump?

RIBBLE: Well, I don't know that they necessarily did that. I don't know that I believe them there, but I do believe that the Russians were very self-interested on their own to influence the election and, in fact, they have influenced the election because they've been able to cast doubt on it.

And so, just the fact that you and I are having this discussion today shows that they've been able to do that. And so it absolutely warrants further investigation. We ought to look into it. But we have to remember that our presidents are elected via 50 independent states with tens of thousands of observers so it's very, very difficult to swing an election one way or another here.

COSTELLO: But you mentioned the fact that we're having this discussion at all.

RIBBLE: Yes.

COSTELLO: And I think some people are sitting out in the audience and they're saying, oh, my gosh, the United States congressman is saying that Russia interfered in some way in our election, yet we're talking about all of these picks for the Trump administration with connections to Russia, and for some people that's a little scary.

RIBBLE: It is a little bit scary. Scary for me and I spoke out about it during the campaign for presidency that I felt that the relationship between Mr. Trump and Russia was a little unusual. Certainly maybe more cozy than I would like to see, but we should not be surprised by it today because he has spoken of this quite frequently during the course of the campaign.

But I do not believe as Mr. Trump said, I do not believe that the Russians swung the election one way or the other. Secretary Clinton was a flawed candidate and the American people, particularly in the central part of the U.S. and in my own home state of Wisconsin chose to go a different path.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Congressman Reid Ribble, thank you for joining us.

RIBBLE: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

We're moments away for the opening bell. And Exxon stock, guess what, has been rising.

CNN's Alisyn Kosik joins me now with more. Good morning.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. So, Rex Tillerson leaving ExxonMobil apparently not rattling investors too much. In fact, they're buying into shares of ExxonMobil.

The funny thing is it has less to do with the fact that Tillerson is Trump's pick for secretary of state, it has more to do with an agreement between OPEC and non-OPEC producers to cut output of oil.

But you see there, the stock performance has been great. Shares up 7 percent over the past month, almost 17 percent over the past year. Look, all energy companies benefit from higher oil prices but Exxon here, Exxon is the real winner because when oil prices fell to $40, the company had to wind up scaling back its share of buy backs and its dividend hikes. But with oil prices moving higher, shareholders could be rewarded. So, they're buying into shares hoping they'll get that reward later.

As for what else is on the table for investors, the Fed meeting, of course, beginning today.

[09:25:02] A decision day coming tomorrow.

Carol, all the expectations are the Fed will hike rates tomorrow -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Oh, boy. So, you'll be back with me for sure.

Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: Donald Trump makes a key announcement about the future of his business empire and daughter Ivanka, she's not part of it. Why?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.

I want to take you to Trump Tower for just a second now because we are monitoring those golden elevators to see who is talking with Donald Trump. This morning, yes, Kanye West entered Trump Tower. You see him back there.

It wasn't so long ago that at a concert, he went on this rant where he told his audience that if he had voted, he would support Donald Trump and then a short time later, he ended up in the hospital. I'm sure the two were not connected. But we just thought it was an interesting picture that Kanye West was coming in to talk to Mr. Trump and we need to kill some time because Jeffrey Lord is dialing in his Skype account.

So, Sally Cohn is already here.

Wow.

SALLY COHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We're going to kill some time, too. It's fun.

COSTELLO: Yes.

COHN: You know, I thought I had seen it all, Carol, but now there you have it. Is he like -- are there any posts still open? Is he going to be secretary -- could he -- I think here we go. I think he could be secretary of sanity.

I know that seems like a far cry, the idea of Kanye West for secretary of sanity.