Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Sources: Trump Taps Rick Perry as Energy Secretary; Trump Taps Exxon CEO for Secretary of State; Trump Loyalists Passed Over for Top Jobs; Trump Delays News Conference on Biz Conflicts. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 13, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:16]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We have confirmed now that the former Texas Governor Rick Perry has been selected for Energy Secretary. You might remember that Rick Perry, at one time, wanted to abolish the Energy Department but Mr. Trump hoping he'll become his Energy Secretary very soon. Jason Carroll, live at Trump Tower to tell us more. Good morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Carol. Remember, it was back in 2011 during that debate when Rick Perry was asked which three departments he would eliminate if he became president. He had that sort of an "oops moment" where he couldn't remember which department he wanted to eliminate, at least not all three of them at first. Then later on -- during the debate, he said yes, one of those departments I would eliminate would be the Department of Energy, the department he has now been tasked with heading up. So that is one of the developments here from Trump Tower.

Also, a lot of talk still about Trump's choice, Rex Tillerson, for Secretary of State, a number of GOP leaders weighing in at this point, coming forward in support of Tillerson. People like Newt Gingrich, people like Condoleezza Rice, as well. Condoleezza Rice, issuing a statement, saying Rex Tillerson is an excellent choice for Secretary of State. He will bring to the post, remarkable and broad international experience, a deep understanding of the global economy and a belief in America's special role in the world. Also, Bob Gates coming forward in support of Tillerson as well, saying in part, "he is a person of great integrity whose only goal in office would be to protect and advance the interests of the United States."

Also though, clearly Carol, a number of people, GOP leaders included, coming forward, very critical of this choice. People like Marco Rubio saying he's got concerns about this. Also people like Senator John McCain as well. But earlier today, out here at Trump Tower, Mike Pence coming forward, offering his support for the choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT: We just couldn't be more grateful that someone of Rex Tillerson's proven leadership and accomplishments, been willing to step forward to serve our nation as our next Secretary of State.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Critics are very concerned about Tillerson's ties to the Kremlins, specifically to -- Russia's President Vladimir Putin. But Carol, also, in other news here at Trump Tower, just a short while ago, rap star Kanye West showed up here at Trump Tower. You'll remember during several of his concerts, he came out in support of Donald Trump and then shortly thereafter checked himself into -- for medical care suffering from what some say was exhaustion. So he's been here at Trump Tower. For what reason, we do not know. Perhaps just to offer his support for Donald Trump, the president-elect as well. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Jason Carroll, many interesting things happening inside Trump Tower this morning. Thank you so much. Back to Mr. Trump's pick for Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson. He's already garnering praise from some -- because of his experience in the business world.

Earlier today, the House Speaker Paul Ryan tweeted this, "Congratulations to Rex Tillerson, a proven leader and person of enormous accomplishment." But Tillerson is not a shoo-in for Secretary of State. He still needs to be confirmed by the Senate and considering his close ties to Russia. He could be looking at a heated showdown on Capitol Hill. Manu Raju has that. Good morning, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. This is the first time since Donald Trump was elected president last month that we have seen Republican senators baulk at one of the president- elect's cabinet picks. We have not heard from Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who himself is a critic of Russia and a number of Republicans who sit on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee are silent as well.

Now, in a troubling sign for the nomination, Florida Senator Marco Rubio said this morning that he has serious concerns about Tillerson. And that's a problem because he sits on the Foreign Relations Committee where the Republicans have only a one-seat advantage on the panel. So if Rubio votes no with all the Democrats that could be enough to stall the nomination. Now, of course, this all stems to Tillerson's close ties to Russia, at a time when Republican senators want to take a hard line. And one of those senators, John McCain, speaking on "The Lead" yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: Anybody who's a friend of Vladimir Putin must disregard the fact that Vladimir Putin is a murderer, a thug, a KGB agent, whose airplanes, as we speak, have been targeting, with precision weapons, hospitals in Aleppo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, on the floor to the Senate, Tillerson cannot lose more than three Republican votes, if the Democrats stay united in opposition. And already four Republicans have expressed some level of concern about the selection. -- Now, that has led the outgoing Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid to say he doesn't

[10:05:16] think Tillerson will get approval from the chamber.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID, (D-NV) MINORITY LEADER: Well, I don't know if he can get 50 votes or not. I think it might be a little hard for me to do that.

RAJU: Did the reports that you're seeing about his Russian connections concern you in any way, given --

REID: -- It's in keeping with Trump. He's already stated he likes Putin better than he likes Obama. So it's obvious he likes Russia. And that's fairly concerning to the world and certainly concerning to Americans, concerning to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, the Trump team is going on a PR offensive and they're getting backing from a number of heavyweights in the Republican foreign policy establishment, including Condoleezza Rice that could potentially give some cover to Republicans nervous about Tillerson's nomination. And Carol, Tillerson has plenty of time to allay some of those concerns once he starts meeting with senators and through those very lengthy confirmation proceedings on Capitol Hill.

COSTELLO: All right, Manu Raju reporting live from Washington. Thank you so much. With me now to talk about this is Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. Welcome, sir.

SEN. BEN CARDIN, (D-MD) RANKING MEMBER FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Carol it's good to be with you. Thanks.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. Let's talk about Tillerson first, shall we? He has no military or diplomatic experience. He's a great deal maker though. Is he a good choice for Secretary of State?

CARDIN: Well, I think the confirmation process is going to be critically important here. I'm looking forward to that. Obviously, his lack of international foreign policy experience is something we're going to want to talk about. You know that Mr. Trump has made many comments during his campaign. We're going to be interested in learning about the Trump foreign policy commitments.

But in regard to Mr. Tillerson himself, his ties to Exxon and the ties to Vladimir Putin are going to be matters of tremendous interest during confirmation. We want to make sure that the Secretary of State's going to put the United States interests before economic commercial interest of a private company or as it relates to other issues. So these are important considerations. We also are concerned about his statements on climate. And that's going to be an issue that I think will come up during confirmation. COSTELLO: Well, we just got this -- statement in from the former Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates. He likes Mr. Tillerson. He writes, in part, "He is a person of great integrity whose only goal in office would be to protect and advance the interest of the United States. I met Rex, years earlier, through a mutual involvement in and the leadership of the Boy Scouts of America. I know this Eagle Scout will be a global champion of the best values of our country." Is that valuable to you, this statement from Robert Gates?

CARDIN: Well, that's what we're going to delve into during the confirmation process. It's one thing about being successful business leader. It's another thing about being the top diplomat for the United States globally. There are lot of challenges. So we need to know where his priorities are going to be. What he thinks of Mr. Putin. How he believes America needs to stand up for basic values, for human rights, for good governance, for anti-corruption, those are issues that in Russia they don't exist. So we'll be interested to see how he responds to those types of questions.

COSTELLO: You called for a nonpartisan commission to investigate Russia's involvement in the last election. Senator McConnell, he's expressed a desire for -- an investigation as well. Are you on the same page?

CARDIN: Well, I'm for Congress doing its responsibility on oversight. And I think the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is going to have a very important role to play. We need to do that. What we do know is that, with a high degree of certainty, Russia hacked into our -- into the Democratic Party apparatus and to Republicans also, and then they tried to influence our election. That's what we do know. So I think it's important that there be a nonpartisan independent investigation so the American people have confidence that we're taking the appropriate steps to protect our country and to take action against those who have attacked us, whether it's a Mig or mouse, we've been attacked.

COSTELLO: Senator, do you believe that Russia tried to tilt the election toward Donald Trump?

CARDIN: I think it's very clear that Russia did, in fact, commit a cyberattack against the United States, used that information to try to influence the election. Now, whether that was on behalf of a particular candidate, there have been reports, the answer is yes. I don't -- it's information I want to find out about.

COSTELLO: Kellyanne Conway says Trump will not interfere in the investigation but Mr. Trump has called the CIA's allegations that, you know, Russia tried to tilt the election toward Trump ridiculous. He calls that ridiculous. So how will that come to play come January?

CARDIN: Well, quite frankly, we have the best Intelligence Agencies in the world. I respect their information greatly. I think we need to listen to what they have to say. And that's why I think an independent investigation would be very helpful to the American people. It's not what Mr. Trump thinks or what I think. It's where the facts lead us. And I think an independent investigation could help us in that regard. COSTELLO: There have been reports that

[10:10:16] Mr. Trump is skipping daily Intelligence briefings. Reince Priebus says that's not true but here's what President Obama had to say about it. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDE CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're not getting their perspective, their detailed perspective, then you are flying blind. You know, part of what we have done is to just hammer away at the basic principle that Intelligence shall not be subject to political spin. And I'm very proud of the fact that over the course of the eight years, the message I've sent to every Intelligence Agency is I want it straight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So the president-elect says the briefings are redundant. What does that say to you about how Trump will run his White House?

CARDIN: Well, that's of great concern. I think President Obama's absolutely correct. The President of the United States, the Office, must have the best information available. The president will make the decision as commander-in-chief. That we understand. But we must accept the information given to him by the experts so he can make the right decision for the national security of our nation. Saying that he knows all this information or it's redundant, it's just plain wrong. Things change overnight, every night. And the president needs to have that information.

COSTELLO: He would say, sir that the CIA and the FBI have become politicized and he has to carefully choose what he listens to.

CARDIN: That's just not accurate. We pride ourselves in having professional nonpartisan agencies that collect information, that analyze information that will prosecute where prosecution is needed. These are independent career people that are trying to do what's best for our nation. They present the facts. It's then up to the leadership, the President of the United States, to make the decisions that are required. --

COSTELLO: Mr. Trump also says the Intelligence services, namely the CIA, it's been wrong in the past, so why should he believe everything the Intelligence Agencies tell him.

CARDIN: Well, quite frankly, the fact is that they've been right so many times. When they're right, there are no press releases that are issued by it. Since 9/11, our country has been kept safe. The Intelligence Community has provided us information that we've acted upon, that have kept America safe. They're professional career people who have only the interest of our nation at heart. They are not partisans. We have a responsibility to support their efforts so they have the tools necessary that they can give us that information. When the president-elect says -- that he knows more than they know, I think that's a real problem. Or that it's redundant information, that's a real problem because that's just not true.

COSTELLO: Senator Ben Cardin thanks for joining me this morning.

CARDIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump says no one is more prepared to be Secretary of State than his nominee. But can a big oil executive make it as the nation's top diplomat?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:48] COSTELLO: Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani, all top surrogates for Donald Trump during his campaign but all came up empty-handed when it came to getting a job in the Trump administration. For his part, Rudy Giuliani says that it was his choice, not the president-elect's.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: It was not. But two very high positions, cabinet level positions, which he offered me and as far as I'm concerned, he fulfilled whatever loyalty that entails. I mean, it was my own decision not to do it, largely because of my personal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Still, for someone who reportedly places loyalty at the top of the list, Trump's shutout of these longtime friends, well, has rumors and that rumors swirling to be dramatic. Here to talk about that and more, CNN political director David Chalian and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. David, what do you make of what Rudy Giuliani said?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it's a little different than what we heard. Kellyanne Conway the Trump adviser, say, when she called it a mutual decision, when it was announced that Giuliani would not be getting a job. Listen. Rudy Giuliani made it very clear that he wanted to be Secretary of State, and after looking at the possibility of that, Donald Trump came to the conclusion that that's not who he wanted for Secretary of State. We know that there were talks about Homeland Security, other agencies, but Giuliani really sort of was like state or bust.

And you heard him. I think what really honestly he said there was it had to do with his personal life, his personal business dealings. He would have had a really tough vetting process to get through even though he likely would have been confirmed to any position. But I think a lot of the complications that we saw about private speeches, working for foreign governments that we saw during the campaign with Hillary Clinton, Rudy Giuliani would have had very similar circumstances.

COSTELLO: So Ron, will Rudy Giuliani serve in some capacity unknown to us at this the time? RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well look, he was one of that, very small handful of current and former Republican elected officials who actually actively supported Donald Trump and I think David is right. I mean, you know, he didn't get the job he wanted. And whether or not Donald Trump offered him a consolation prize, as he says or not, really almost is immaterial because the job he wanted ultimately went to someone else. So it's going to be a flashpoint of his -- own in Secretary of State.

But yes, I do think, that you know, Rudy Giuliani, there's no reason for him to be kind of exiled from the circle. And I do think that Donald Trump values his views and certainly values his support during the campaign. Look, Trump has shown himself, willing to go beyond the very narrow circle of Republican elected officials who actively supported him. In some ways, he has had more freedom in picking his cabinet than any, I think, newly elected president precisely because so little of the party's intellectual and political infrastructure actively supported his candidacy.

COSTELLO: OK, so on that note, let's talk about Rick Perry because CNN has just confirmed that Rick Perry is Donald Trump's pick to be Energy Secretary. And remember back in the day when Rick Perry was running for president and that horrible debate he had? Well, let me remind you, here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY (R) FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: In order to have peace in the Middle East, you know that you have to be able to bring people to the table that might not always like each other but you have somebody that's capable of doing that. And so having relationships with people that would otherwise --

And I will tell you, it is three agencies

[10:20:16] of government, when I get there that are gone, Commerce, Education and -- what's the third one there? Let's see --

RON PAUL, FORMER REP. TEXAS: You need five.

PERRY: Oh, five, OK. So Commerce, Education and the --

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS: EPA?

PERRY: EPA, there you go.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNBC MODERATOR: Seriously, is the EPA the one you were talking about?

PERRY: No, sir, no, sir. We were talking about the agencies of government. The EPA needs to be rebuilt. There's no doubt about that.

HARWOOD: But you can't name the third one?

PERRY: The third agency of government I would -- I would do away with, the Education, the -- Commerce and, let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry. Oops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, so he meant to say -- that was so painful, David. And I feel bad about showing that again. It was so painful. But he did mean the Department of Energy, an agency that he maybe will head very soon. So how does that wash exactly?

CHALIAN: And remember, Donald Trump has talked about at one point, getting rid of the Department of Education. And you know there will be one still and he's appointed somewhere there. This has been some sort of mainstream, actually Republican rhetoric to want to close down some of these federal departments. And yes, now some of those very critics will be leading this.

But I do want to say Carol that was Rick Perry's first presidential run. His second presidential run, which was more brief, when he was actually an opponent to Donald Trump very early in the season and came out with a scathing rebuke of Donald Trump at that time. And now he's going to be sitting in cabinet meetings working for Donald Trump as his Energy Secretary. To Ron's point earlier, I think that this is one of those that show Donald Trump not afraid to take former critics and seat them at the table.

COSTELLO: So do you think that's it Ron or is maybe Rick Perry someone that Donald Trump can control?

BROWNSTEIN: Well no, look, I think it's very telling to see the Perry and the Tillerson nominations kind of in tandem here because they tell you a couple things. -- I think the biggest thing they tell you is that on most domestic issues with a couple of exceptions, Donald Trump is largely in tune with what the Republican Party and Congress has wanted to do in terms of rolling back federal regulation, reducing federal spending, cutting taxes and kind of diminishing the role of the federal government in national life. It is on foreign policy where he represents more of a break from what Republicans have been thinking and where it is more potential conflict over the role of NATO, over the relationship with Russia, over all of the questions that are going to come up in the Rex Tillerson nomination.

And what I think is so striking about that is that Donald Trump went ahead with that after clear signals of concern from several Republican senators about what this will mean for U.S. relations with Russia. And I think that elevates this nomination to something more than a kind of a test about Mr. Tillerson himself. It really is Donald Trump putting down a gauntlet for Senate Republicans about who is in charge, particularly as he tries to redirect foreign policy in a way that is very different than many Republicans have believed it should go in the past.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. David Chalian, Ron Brownstein, many thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump has business ties all over the world. What he says he'll do with them before the -- actually, he was supposed to tell us that on Thursday but he's no longer going to do that. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:07] COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. You know what, on Thursday, we were supposed to learn how Donald Trump was going to cut off all of his business ties so he could concentrate solely on being President of the United States. Well, we got word in the last couple of days that Trump has now postponed that news conference. There's the tweet. Of course it came via tweet. He said, "I will hold a press conference in the near future to discuss the business, cabinet picks and all other topics of interest. Busy times!"

So let's talk about that. Brian Stelter is here, our senior media correspondent and also our chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins me as well.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

COSTELLO: So we're just trying to figure out why Donald Trump postponed this big news conference because everybody is eager to hear how he's going to cut ties with his many businesses across the globe and concentrate on being president.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT AND HOST "RELIABLE RESOURCES": A very thorny situation for him, one that he must have been thinking about even before winning the presidency last month. His aides say he needs more time, more importantly, his lawyers need more time to figure this out and sort this out. But worth keeping in mind, Carol, he could also have a press conference about the hundreds of other questions we have about other topics.

Normally, when a new president is elected or re-elected after a second term, that person holds a press conference, one, two, three, four days after being elected. The average since 1970 is 3.4 days, so as with so many other things Donald Trump doing things very differently, not holding a press conference in his first five weeks. --

COSTELLO: Hey, he just threw an impromptu press conference with Kanye West. --

STELTER: He did. We saw a camera man with Kanye West. So we'll see what comes of that. To Trump's credit, he's had a few interviews, but he hasn't had that formal press conference setting that a lot of people are waiting for.

COSTELLO: OK. Could it be because his business ties are so complicated that they're just not quite ready to say anything yet?

ROMANS: They're legitimately very busy here. And everybody on his team will say that. They're working hard and fast to get some of these names out too. Cabinet positions announced just this morning. And in terms of how difficult it is to disentangle Donald Trump from his business empire, I mean, he has said now, these new tweets overnight, that he's going to -- no new deals and he is, in January, going to talk about how he's going to be stepping away from his business. But Carol, stepping away from his business, if his children are still running it, if he, you know, we'd like to know what kind of loans he has outstanding, with maybe foreign governments, foreign companies that are tied to other governments. What kind of entanglements could be a potential conflict when he is the president making very big decisions in America's best interest? We still haven't seen his taxes. I don't think we will.

So we don't know, Carol. What is in that big ball of wax? And I think they're buying themselves some more time to figure out what is going to satisfy the critics who would like to see a blind trust and what will satisfy Donald Trump who wants to see his kids in charge of his business.

COSTELLO: But do you really think, Brian, we'll see paperwork from Donald Trump? Because I don't think we will.

STELTER: This is not a black box but it's certainly not a clear transparent box either. There's a lot we don't know about his business empire. So it's very hard to know what untangling it would really look like.

ROMANS: You know you look at the numbers, Carol. 564 companies he has stakes in. 150 international holdings. International holdings, there may or may not be, I don't know, Chinese banking money, Russian banking money, there could be Middle Eastern money, --

STELTER: Right. It's the unknown. --

ROMANS: We don't -- and I'm not saying there are. I'm saying, we don't know.