Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Closing Arguments in Charleston Church Shooting to Begin; Evacuations Finally Underway in Embattled Aleppo City; Trump's Kids Attend Summit, Raise Concerns; Dow Within Striking Distance of Major Milestone. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 15, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO: You know, targeted market cap, Carol. It's not big enough that way, not in terms of his P.R.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I'm glad you cleared that up for us. Thank you so much.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: NEWSROOM starts now. You guys have a good day.

CUOMO: No love.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You, too.

CUOMO: No love. Just a lump of coal in human form.

COSTELLO: I'm sorry. NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning, I'm carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Closing arguments set to begin in just a few minutes in the trial of Dylann Roof. He's the man accused of carrying out the Charleston church massacre.

On Wednesday, jurors got a firsthand account of what unfolded during that night of terror from one of the survivors. Polly Sheppard recalls diving under a table when bullets started flying. She says Roof pointed a gun at her and asked this chilling question, "Did I shoot you yet?" Shepherd's tearful 911 call was played out in court. A warning, some of you might find this disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POLLY SHEPPARD, CHARLESTON CHURCH MASSACRE SURVIVOR: Please answer. Oh, God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, what's the address of the emergency?

SHEPPARD: Please. Emanuel Church. There's plenty people shot down here. Please send somebody right away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emanuel Church?

SHEPPARD: Emanuel AME 110. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there's people shot?

SHEPPARD: Yes. He shot the pastor. He shot all the men in the church. Please come right away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Nick Valencia live in Charleston with more for you. Hi, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Court is expected to begin in just about 30 minutes. It has been an emotional week of testimony as shooting survivors have recounted in horrific detail what they witnessed last year. For his part, Dylann Roof has been emotionless, expressionless, showing no remorse for what he's accused of.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DYLANN ROOF, ACCUSED OF SHOOTING IN MOTHER EMANUEL AME CHURCH: Well, I had to do it because somebody had to do something because, you know, Black people are killing Black people every day.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Before his trial began, Dylann Roof confessed saying he was willing to plead guilty to all charges on the condition that prosecutors remove the death penalty. They refused.

In the closing week of the trial, prosecutors punctuating their case by painting Roof as a cold blooded calculated killer, obsessed with White supremacy and hateful of Blacks. They say Roof hoped to start a race war when he walked into the historically Black Emanuel AME Church in Charleston on June 17, 2015. He prayed with the Bible study group for nearly an hour before removing a .45 caliber Glock handgun and fatally shooting nine people.

Evidence presented by prosecutors include this video showing Roof shooting target practice and parts of a 2,000-word manifesto calling Black people stupid, inferior to Whites, and violent. He says the Trayvon Martin case triggered his decision to kill, saying no skin heads, no real KKK, are taking action. Someone must, quote, "I guess that has to be me."

The first witness brought to the stand was Felicia Sanders, a shooting survivor, forced to take a break from recounting her gut-wrenching testimony. The last witness, 72-year-old Polly Sheppard, describing how she hid under a table, praying as bullet casings fell around her, until Roof told her he'd let her live to tell the horrific story.

SHEPPARD: He's still in the building. Please help us.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Newly released audio from her 911 call capturing the panic inside.

SHEPPARD: There's so many people dead, I think. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said there's so many people dead? SHEPPARD: I think they're dead, yes.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Roof listening expressionless and emotionless, showing no remorse.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: The defense rested its case without calling a single witness. Late yesterday, they did try to get two mental health experts to testify on Dylann Roof's behalf but a judge denied that motion.

Carol, there's been a lot of drama surrounding Dylann Roof's defense. Up until about two weeks ago, the 22-year-old said that he wanted to defend himself. He did an about-face but only during this phase, the guilt phase of the trial. We do expect Roof to represent himself during the sentencing phase -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Valencia reporting live from Charleston, South Carolina. So let's talk about this. With me now, CNN Legal Analyst Paul Callan.

Welcome, Paul.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So they'll do closing arguments, right? The case will go to the jury. The jury will probably come back with a guilty verdict, unless something astounding happens.

CALLAN: Well, something happens, something very bizarre.

COSTELLO: So then what will happen next?

CALLAN: Well, then we'll go into the penalty phase, which is really the heart of this case. I mean, obviously, he's guilty. He's admitted his guilt from the beginning, and we've seen it proven in a most compelling way.

But now the issue is more difficult for the jury. Should he be put to death, or should he be allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison? And even some of the victims' families in this case have said they oppose the death penalty for these brutal killings. So it's really going to be a very, very interesting penalty phase, I think, as we're coming up, Carol.

[09:05:05] COSTELLO: It defies logic that Dylann Roof will escape the death penalty just because of the emotional testimony. We played a bit of that 911 call from Polly Sheppard, the only survivor from inside that church. Dylann Roof allowed her to live so that she could tell the tale of his horrific deed.

I just want to play our viewers some more of that 911 call. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHEPPARD: He's coming. He's coming. He's coming. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Ma'am, are you able to -- if he's coming, I need you to be as quiet as possible. Is there something you can hide under?

SHEPPARD: I'm under the table.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see him at all?

SHEPPARD: Yes. He's a young 21-year-old White dude.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

SHEPPARD: Please, and we've got some people very hurt. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma'am. And you said -- were you able to see the gun. Do you know what kind of gun it was?

SHEPPARD: No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know anything about guns.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That's OK. And where are the weapons now?

SHEPPARD: He's got it in his hand. He's reloading.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Oh, my goodness. So Dylann Roof gets up to convince the jury that he doesn't deserve the death penalty. How does that go?

CALLAN: Well, it's astounding. Although something very interesting is happening in this case, he's representing himself during the penalty phase. Now, lawyers say this is a huge mistake. And there's been a lot of worry about it, that maybe it will be reversible error and the verdict will be thrown out.

I happen to think it's probably a very smart move on his part. And I only say that because if he's trying to convince --

COSTELLO: You mean a deliberately smart move or an accidental smart move that he's doing?

CALLAN: Well, it's hard to say, but the reason I say this is because, with him standing up in front of the jury for the entire penalty phase, they'll get a very, very close look at him as a human being. And if, in fact, he suffers from some sort of deep and obvious mental illness, that will become clear throughout the penalty phase.

Remember, his only hope is that the jury thinks he's so crazy, he doesn't deserve the death penalty. And what better way than for him to be standing in front of them every day, you know, demonstrating the extent of his mental illness.

COSTELLO: So during the penalty phase, often, family members of the victims take the stand to tell about the emotional toll this has taken on them. So Dylann Roof will be questioning them?

CALLAN: Yes. And I have to tell you, this is the most horrific scene in a courtroom you can imagine, with the killer questioning family members of the victim. I've seen it happen in courtrooms, sometimes a rape victim being questioned by the rapist, but the law allows it. And I'm just cringing thinking of how bad the scene is going to be.

COSTELLO: So might Dylann Roof take the stand himself?

CALLAN: Yes, he could take the stand himself. When he's representing himself, he testifies in what the lawyers call narrative format. He just sits there and tells his story without anybody asking him questions, and then the prosecutor cross-examines.

COSTELLO: Well, he has a celebrated defense attorney. His name is David Bruck. He's tried a number of famous death penalty cases. He's adamantly opposed to the death penalty. So will he just sit by and watch this unfold?

CALLAN: It's hard to say how this is going to unfold because, remember, Dylann Roof wanted to fire him initially and represent himself during the liability or guilt phase of the trial, and he changed his mind. Dylann Roof could change his mind again, and this attorney could wind up playing a major role. So I think you have to take this on a day-to-day basis. You're dealing with an extremely strange person who, obviously, is mentally ill. The only question is, how mentally ill is he?

COSTELLO: Paul Callan, thanks so much.

CALLAN: OK. Thank you.

COSTELLO: In other news this morning, evacuations in Syria finally underway. A new ceasefire in Aleppo is holding, at least for now, but the constant airstrikes have taken their toll. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed, and there is still fear that many people won't make it out alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That is the voice of an orphan in Aleppo. This is what he's saying, quote, "This might be the last day you will hear my voice and see me. I am 10 years old. I have been living in an orphanage for the past two years. I lost my mom and dad two years ago from airstrikes. I am sending this message to those concerned with human rights and the rights of children and to the entire world. I hope you get us out of Aleppo. There are 47 children here, and they are all my brothers and sisters. We hope to get out of Aleppo and eat and drink. We love peace. We cannot go outside because of the airstrikes and shelling. We can't go outside because of that. Please get us out of Aleppo."

Oh. More now from CNN's Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen. Hi, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes. And one of the things that the international community is now trying to do is trying to get those people who are still holding out in that little rebel enclave in Aleppo, trying to get them out. And it seems as though, from the first information that we're getting and from what we're monitoring, that at this point in time, it appears to be working. The first convoys have managed to leave eastern Aleppo, go through government territory, and then get into other areas that are controlled by the opposition.

[09:10:21] First and foremost, it's the weakest. It's the people who need the most attention, people who are wounded, people who are severely ill, people who need medical attention very, very quickly. Hundreds have apparently already come out. There were some hitches where one of the convoys was actually shot at and one person was killed.

So for many of these people, it is certainly somewhat relief after they were so scared the past couple of days. And we managed to get some of the voices of those who are so afraid. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know really what to say. Words can't go out now. I hope you can -- something to solve the expected massacres. Just yesterday, my -- the next door exactly, all the building collapsed. Many people were killed. Well, many people now are being killed and just kept in the streets and their buildings. No one can help them.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Countless stories from within the rebel-held territory in Aleppo, Syria. It is, by all accounts, an unmitigated humanitarian disaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may be thinking that this is an old video but it's not. It's a new one. And it's taking place right here, right now, on the day when they were supposed to be an agreement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To everyone who can hear me, we are here exposed to a genocide in the besieged city of Aleppo. This may be my last video. More than 50,000 of civilians who rebelled against the dictator al-Assad are threatened with field executions or dying under bombing.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Bana, a 7-year-old living in east Aleppo, with the help of her mother, has been tweeting. Her most recent message, a cry for help. Her mother, following up with a message of her own. Today, from a rooftop, sounds of conflict can still be heard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This could be my final appeal. Hoping it will find listening ears of the people making decisions around the world. Everybody who can, please speak to your government, to his country to put pressure to stop the aggression. To stop the killing. To stop the war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least we know that we will defeat evil. We want to defeat them. We didn't want anything else but freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So there you see, Carol, some of the voices of those who, we believe, are now being evacuated out of that rebel enclave that, after they're gone, will no longer be a rebel enclave and in fact, the Syrian government will then take full control of that city.

And as for many of those who are leaving now, for many of them, of course, it's a very bitter moment. They never wanted to leave their district. They never wanted to leave Aleppo. And it's also a move into a very uncertain future because the place that they're going to, they don't know what's going to await them there. Just keep in mind, where they're going is a combat zone, as well. There's some heavy fighting in those other rebel areas, too, Carol.

COSTELLO: Frederik Pleitgen reporting live for us from Beirut, Lebanon. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM. President-elect Trump calls a meeting but his children steal the spotlight. Is it a conflict of interest taking shape even before Mr. Trump takes office?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:10] COSTELLO: Donald Trump's team is batting away questions of conflict of interest. The concerns though growing louder after the president-elect calls a meeting of tech industry giants and his children and his son-in-law. You see they have a prominent place at the table. Trump, as you might recall, is handing control of his companies to his eldest sons who were, yes, in that meeting.

CNN's Sara Murray is here with a closer look.

Good morning.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Carol.

Not only were the three adult children and Jared Kushner in his meeting but it does seem like at least some of them are poised to play a prominent role in the White House. We have heard that Ivanka Trump will be headed to the West Wing. She is likely to have an office there, sources are telling us.

Meanwhile Jared Kushner, sources say, appear bound for the West Wing. Now, the East Wing is interesting because this is usually where we see the office of the first lady. But under a Donald Trump White House, aides are already plank for this to be an office of the first family. So that leaves the question of what happened to Donald Trump Jr. What happens to Eric Trump?

Well, they are supposed to be the ones who are taking over the business. But, not only were they in this tech meeting, they've also been involved when it comes to Donald Trump's cabinet picks. Don Jr. helped to interview candidates for interior secretary. Eric Trump sat in on a meeting with Mitt Romney when they were considering him for secretary of state. So, they haven't exactly been removed from this process.

Now, transition aides have been downplaying this saying, look, you said they were going to be involved in the transition and we are. A spokeswoman said Ivanka Trump's role has not been fully determined. But it does seem here that a Donald Trump White House is going to be a family affair. And Donald Trump himself, being a little bit defensive about this, this morning, and of course he took to his favorite medium, Twitter, to express his feelings.

He tweeted, "The media tries so hard to make my move to the White House as it pertains to my business so complex when it actually isn't."

Carol, it's a good reminder that today was supposed to be the day that Donald Trump had a press conference to explain how he was going to disentangle his business interests with his interest in the Oval Office, they've postponed that to January because they were not prepared to lay this all out and explain it because it's complicated, Carol.

COSTELLO: It is complicated and we're going to get into that next.

Sara Murray, many thanks to you.

OK. All of this is happening four days before members of the Electoral College meet to cast their vote for president. So, in light of that, let's talk about it all. With me now is Errol Louis, CNN political commentator and an anchor for Spectrum News, and Richard Painter is with me, a former White House ethics attorney, now a professor at the University of Minnesota.

Welcome to both of you.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, Errol, Trump's kids sitting in this meeting with their father, interviewing potential candidates for his cabinet and staff. Is this just a new normal?

LOUIS: Well, you know what? I'd have to agree in some ways with Donald Trump's tweet. It's not complex. He never released his taxes. He's not going to release his taxes.

He promised he would disclose his business interests. He's never going to disclose his business interests.

[09:20:02] He said he would keep his business interests separate from his work in the White House. He's not going to do that, either. It's really pretty simple, you know?

And the reality is, and the professor can correct me on this, but as far as I can tell there are really only two solutions to this, if the president himself is not going to separate himself out from these on conflicts of interests. One is pre-election, which is the voters just reject that sort of behavior. And the second is something along the lines of impeachment. And unfortunately, we may end up somewhere in the messy middle where

there will be disclosure after disclosure of conflict after conflict and opportunity after opportunity for self-enrichment, and that will unfortunately could end up being the new normal.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Richard, Sean Spicer was on "NEW DAY" earlier this morning and he said you know what, it's not a conflict of interest that these kids were sitting in these meetings because we were fully transparent. Look, there was a camera in there. We have a camera posted at the golden elevators in the Trump Tower. We can see everybody walking in and out and nobody's making a secret of anything or that the kids were involved.

So, why is anyone worried? Does that sit well with you?

RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Well, the camera doesn't tell you who's saying what to who. And I am concerned about the children, the conflicts of interest with the president-elect's children.

But I have to say, the much more serious and threatening conflict of interest involves the connection with foreign powers. We've seen clear evidence that Russia was very much involved in trying to throw this election to Mr. Trump, and is engaged now in operations overseas, in Syria and elsewhere.

And the president has to make sure that he does not have money coming in from foreign powers. That is prohibited under the emolument clause of the Constitution. The Founders envisioned that this could happen and we have the Constitution prohibiting those foreign payments. And if he doesn't fix that problem, and tell us how he's going to fix that problem, I don't know what the electors can do when they have their meeting.

We need to have a president who is going to take office in accordance with the Constitution. And that's my number one concern. We can discuss the children also and their conflict of interest there that I'm worried about. But the first thing is the national security.

COSTELLO: Can I just interrupt you for just one second and go back to the money issue with Russia? Because one of Trump's sons told "The Washington Post" back in 2008 that the Trump Empire had many business ties in Russia, and there's a lot of money tied up there. But we don't know exactly what business interests, Errol, or how much money does he owe any debts to Russian investors, we don't know that, right?

LOUIS: That's exactly right. We don't know. And they're not going to tell us.

You know, frankly, you can look upstairs in that very building with the golden elevators and look at the foreign interests that are already tenants of Trump Tower, or of the Trump building down at 40 Wall Street or who are involved, or renting space, or leasing rooms in the Trump hotel down there in Washington, D.C.

We're already at the point that professor Painter is talking about. I mean, we're right there, where you've got all kinds of undisclosed interests, and what little we've seen on their own website, as you point out, Carol, suggests that there are already financial ties there.

So, you know, here again, I think we have to move to sort of remedies and solutions. The question of whether or not there are problems there, I think that question has already been answered.

COSTELLO: OK. So we know there are problems. But Donald Trump supposedly will hold this news conference in January, or also, Richard, he could postpone it once again. Why does he have to hold it anyway? Because he's got a Republican Congress, right? They don't seem to care overly much. So why should he deal with it at all?

PAINTER: Well, I think he has to deal with it.

With respect to the Russians, President Roosevelt dropped his Vice President Henry Wallace because of consecutives with the Russians that were a lot weaker evidence than we have here. And this is national security concern. And I do not think that Republicans are going to support a president who's not transparent about his financial connections all over the world, including Russia, and that means releasing his tax returns, and furthermore divesting from his business empire is creating egregious conflict of interest.

Senator Warren has introduced a bill, or will be introducing a bill, in the Senate that will require divestiture by the president and the vice president and I believe that Republicans will support that. There is no reason for Republicans to support financial conflicts of interest, personal conflicts of interest for a president of the United States simply because he is a Republican, particularly when there is a threat to our national security and a foreign power has sought to and apparently succeeded in manipulating our election.

This is not acceptable. It's un-American. And the American people aren't going to support it. And I don't think the Republicans on the Hill will, either.

COSTELLO: We'll see. All right. I have to leave it there.

Errol Louis, Richard Painter, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Dow is on the brink of a major milestone again. Will it reach 20,000 today?

[09:25:01] We'll take you to the New York Stock Exchange next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are moments away from the opening bell, and anticipation is against building, as the Dow remains in striking distance of reaching that major milestone, the 20,000 mark.

Alison Kosik live in the New York Stock Exchange.

Hi, Alison. ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

So, yes, the watch for Dow 20,000 is back on after we saw some losses on the Dow yesterday.

Now, it wasn't that the Fed raised interest rates a quarter of a percent, but what rattled the market a little bit was how many times policymakers said they're expected to raise rates against next year. They said three times instead of two. They had said it would only be two back in September.

So, the concern here is how much will they raise it as well? Will it be small moves like a quarter point, or bigger jumps?

So, meantime, mortgage rates, they are on the move. Look at this. Yesterday, a 30-year fixed was at 4.19 percent. Today, it's at 4.27 percent. Look at a month ago, it was barely over 4 percent, in anticipation of the Fed's formal announcement.

So, yes, what the Federal Reserve just did was make borrowing money more expensive. But by raising rates, the Fed is basically showing it believes the economy is getting stronger.

So, now going to turn back to the Dow which is within spitting distance of 20,000. A milestone.

But you know what, Carol? Even if it doesn't take that milestone this year, the Dow had a fantastic year so far.