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Aleppo Evacuations Halted; Interview with Maura Healey; Dylann Roof Guilty on All Counts; Facebook Takes Steps to Fight Fake News; Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 16, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:56] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Claims of a broken cease-fire, evacuations suspended and thousands left hanging in the balance. That's the situation in Aleppo, Syria, where people desperate to escape a five-year-old civil war are suddenly forced to stay where they are.

CNN senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen joins me now with more. Hi, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. You're absolutely right. Right now those evacuations out of eastern Aleppo have absolutely broken down and it certainly seems as though it's a pretty dangerous and volatile situation there between those rebel-held enclaves in eastern Aleppo and of course the government forces on the other side.

Now there's claims and counter claims both sides making each other or holding each other responsible for the breakdown of all of this. It seems as though there was a convoy that was supposed to go from east through the government-held parts of Aleppo and then into rebel-held territory. Again, that was held up by a bunch of pro-government fighters. They are claiming that the rebels on board that convoy had some weapons with them which they were not allowed to take with them.

The rebels for their part are saying that the Shiite militias that stopped them, those pro-government militias were angry because there were some evacuations that were supposed to take place in another part of Syria that they claimed weren't happening. Both sides accusing each other in any case. All of this has halted now, those evacuations, and there's a lot of people on the ground there of course who are very scared.

It's interesting because the Russians are now saying they believe that all the evacuations were already completed beforehand. Turkey which is also a part of all of this is saying that's simply not true. There are still tens of thousands of people in eastern Aleppo and they not only need evacuation but they also need help, Carol, because the situation right now on the ground is absolutely dire. It's very cold, it's been raining the past couple of days and of course, we know, Carol, that the people who are still stuck in eastern Aleppo haven't had anything real to eat in weeks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Frederik Pleitgen reporting live for us this morning. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:17] COSTELLO: Attorneys general in three states say they will not hesitate to use their power to check and balance Mr. Trump's Washington agenda once he becomes president of the United States, that is. They say they will sue the administration if they think that Mr. Trump is doing something unconstitutional. One of those attorneys general is Massachusetts AG Maura Healey. She joins me now live.

Welcome. Thank you for being here.

MAURA HEALEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Great to be with you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. So what do you mean that you'll -- in essence you will use your office as a check and balance on the president of the United States?

HEALEY: Well, Carol, you know, state attorneys general are going to be the first line of defense against potential abuses by the Trump administration. And I'll tell you what I mean. First of all, if the federal government going forward backs down and refuses to enforce the law, refuses to protect people's rights, state attorneys general are going to come forward to do just that. And second, we're going to be there to make sure that Donald Trump and his administration follow the law.

This is an administration coming in that has made promises that are really concerning. It's an administration that's promised to take away health care from millions of people, to tear up Wall Street reform and ignore civil rights. Those are serious issues. And my job as a state attorney general is to stand up for people, to protect people, to enforce the law. And I think the job of state attorneys generals is as important as it's ever been.

COSTELLO: But isn't that why we have a Congress and a U.S. Supreme Court? We have checks and balances built into the federal system.

HEALEY: Well, certainly Congress has a role here, but let's look at what we mean when we think about things like the mortgage crisis of a few years ago. It was state attorneys generals who stepped forward to take on some of those terrible predatory abuses that really wrecked the economy. And Congress may pass laws, but at the end of the day it is up to either the Department of Justice or state attorneys generals to enforce those laws. They are not self-executing.

And if the federal government refuses to enforce laws that are there to protect consumers, workers, investors, students, you name it, protect our civil rights, then the role of a state attorney general becomes that much more important because day in and day out, our job is to represent people, the interests of our states, and to make sure that the laws are followed.

COSTELLO: So if President-elect Trump does what he promises about Obamacare as in repeal it on day one, what will your office do? HEALEY: Well, I think this is all something we're taking a hard look

at right now. It's very concerning some of the promises that Donald Trump made throughout the course of his campaign. Cutting millions of people off of health care. Reversing "Roe versus Wade." Tearing up important federal regulatory reforms put in place following the mortgage crisis.

COSTELLO: But would you think about --

HEALEY: This notion of deporting millions of people --

COSTELLO: There is a federal government over the repeal of Obamacare?

HEALEY: Well, our job is going to be to enforce the law and Donald Trump is not above the law, nor will his administration be above the law. So our job as attorneys generals is to make sure that the laws are enforced and that people are held accountable. And that includes Donald Trump and his administration.

It's particularly concerning when you look at, Carol, some of his nominations. The people he has nominated to head any number of the various departments are people who have spent much of their careers trying to dismantle the very departments that they are now slated to head. And so for somebody like me as a state attorney general, when you look at that and you think about what that might mean in terms of abdication of responsibility, lax enforcement or no enforcement of consumer or investor laws, civil rights laws.

COSTELLO: I know what you're talking about.

HEALEY: It's going to be the role of attorneys general to step forward.

COSTELLO: I know what you're talking about. Rex Tillerson, right?

[10:40:02] That's Mr. Trump's pick for secretary of State. He was the CEO of Exxon and you're currently conducting an investigation into Exxon and Rex Tillerson. Tell me about that.

HEALEY: Well, you know, last spring we sent subpoenas to Exxon asking for information about what they knew about the impact of burning fossil fuels on the environment and when they knew it. There's been information in the record, in the public, about what Exxon knew many decades ago and what it may have misrepresented to the public, including consumers and investors. So we simply sent a subpoena asking them to provide information and documents. Instead, Exxon has thrown up road blocks at every turn, dodged our questions for months, even sued me in federal court to try to stop my investigation from going forward. So obviously with the nomination of Rex Tillerson, I like in the first instance for him and his executives and the company to answer the simple questions we've been asking for several months now. He's going to have to answer, it appears as he should, a number of other questions about a number of other important and timely issues.

COSTELLO: So I know that Rex Tillerson -- HEALEY: But I would like to have him answer that question.

COSTELLO: I know that Rex Tillerson -- I mean, Exxon has implemented some things that might help the environment. So it's not totally against the idea of instituting policies to fight climate change.

HEALEY: Well, Carol, our investigation has never been about climate change policy and good for Exxon to the extent they've caught up with the rest of the science community in acknowledging that climate change is real. What our concern and what we want to get answers to, Carol, is what Exxon knew when, including decades ago, about the impact of its product and fossil fuel on the environment and what it told consumers and investors.

So it's an important issue and what's discouraging to me and what has been very frustrating to me as a state attorney general is that this is a corporation that instead of complying with the law has chosen to sue a state attorney general's office in federal court in an effort to shut down an inquiry, to shut down and cut off questions from being asked.

And I say to Rex Tillerson, I say to Exxon, nobody is above the law. Answer our questions. Whether that happens now in a confirmation hearing or whether it happens by them simply doing what they should be doing in answering our questions, providing us with the documents, I hope they come forward. I hope they come clean on this.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Maura Healey, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, guilty on all counts. The gunman in last summer's church massacre could soon face the death penalty. We will take you to Charleston next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:27] COSTELLO: Dylann Roof convicted on all charges in last summer's massacre inside the Emanuel AME Church. Roof standing silently as each verdict was read, guilty, 33 times over. This crime shaking America's core, shooting at point-blank range nine African- Americans who moments before had been praying with him. Next month a jury will decide whether he gets life behind bars or death.

I talked with one victim's brother last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALCOLM GRAHAM, BROTHER OF VICTIM CYNTHIA HURD: If there's any case in America where the death penalty is deserved, it is this one. He's a coward. He's a racist. And as I said earlier, there's no place in a civilized society for him and there's no place in America's smallest jail for him. And so I believe as the attorney general has recommended this case to be a capital case, that he ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: CNN's Nick Valencia live in Charleston with more. Hi, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Six days of testimony, nearly two hours of deliberation for the jurors, unanimously to find Dylann Roof guilty on all charges.

It was a very emotional day in the courtroom yesterday, as you can imagine. I was standing two rows behind Dylann Roof. His hand noticeably fidgeting, his ears turning red as each of those counts was read back-to-back, guilty on all counts.

Perhaps the most emotion coming from the family members of the victims, those that had to stand and watch the prosecution in their closing arguments, the defense in their closing arguments, painting him as a loner, a white supremacist who was inspired by the Internet. The prosecution simply saying that there's hatred in this courtroom.

Those family members as they heard the guilty verdicts, some of them wiped tears from their eyes. Others bowed their head in prayer. But perhaps the most emotional moment came during the closing arguments for the prosecution, when they unexpectedly showed a photo of the bloody crime scene, these bloody bodies of the worshippers lying down at that bible study.

(INAUDIBLE) Sanders seemingly reaching out, his body positioned in a way where he was reaching out to comfort his aunt who was also shot and killed.

Some of the family members, as you can imagine, are conflicted about whether or not he should receive the death penalty. We spoke to one of them earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love heals, love destroys, just like in this particular situation. He thought he was starting a race war but look at what love conquered. Look at the unity and how Charleston came together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: The penalty phase is next. That will happen on January 3rd. Dylann Roof is expected to represent himself during that penalty phase against the advice of the judge. Roof asked yesterday if he understood what this meant. He says yes, he had spoken to it with his family and he still plans to represent himself when court reconvenes next month -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Valencia, reporting live from Charleston this morning, thank you.

Checking some other top stories for you at 49 minutes past.

The youths accused of starting those wildfires in Tennessee could spend the rest of their lives in prison. That's if they are convicted of first-degree murder. The juveniles haven't been named. It's not clear if they will be charged as adults but a local prosecutor tells CNN, quote, "Everything is on the table." Those fires left 14 people dead and destroyed thousands of homes and businesses.

Effective immediately, the state of Michigan will have self-driving cars on the road. General Motors is the second car giant to fully test autonomous cars on public roads. Ford began testing its cars last year. GM will test their modified Chevy Bolt around the Detroit metro area in the next few months.

Bundle up because, man, it's freezing outside. And I mean that literally.

[10:50:03] Nearly 80 percent of the country faced with below freezing temperatures today and those temperatures will continue to be frigid into the next week. The northeast is under a deep freeze advisory with wind chill warnings that could cause travel delays. In the meantime, the northern plains into the Great Lakes is expected to get smacked with nearly one foot of snow. And just think, I'm going to Detroit in just a few hours.

First Lady Michelle Obama now opening up in a candid conversation about Donald Trump. In a sit-down with Oprah, Mrs. Obama for the first time revealing her feelings about the man set to assume her husband's role as commander-in-chief and what our country needs from him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: Having a grown-up in the White House who can say to you in times of crisis and turmoil, hey, it's going to be OK, let's remember the good things that we have, let's look at the future, let's look at all the things that we're building. All of this is important for our kids to stay focused and to feel like their work isn't in vain, that their lives aren't in vain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux at the White House with more on this. Good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Carol. Well, it's just a couple of days after the election that I covered Michelle Obama hosting Melania Trump here at the White House and unlike her husband, there were not live cameras capturing the moment but rather a White House photo that was released of the two of them having tea.

Carol, it is obvious here that the first lady is going through a process, if you will. She put in a lot of sweat equity on the campaign trail, and spent a lot of personal and political capital, often calling Trump, excoriating Trump's character, often not even by name but saying we don't need somebody who's going to pop off at the White House. We need a grownup. She's said that numerous times.

And I think what you are seeing here is a first lady who is profoundly disappointed and is willing to show openly, publicly, her feelings about it. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We are feeling what not having hope feels like, you know. Hope is necessary. It's a necessary concept and Barack didn't just talk about hope because he thought it was just a nice slogan to get votes. I mean, he and I and so many believe that if -- what else do you have if you don't have hope? What do you give your kids if you can't give them hope?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And Carol, obviously Trump supporters would say that the new president gives them hope, speaks to their dreams and aspirations, but First Lady Michelle Obama leaves the White House with an approval rating close to 64 percent, according to the latest Gallup poll. It's led many people -- some people to ask her, call her to run for president herself. And to that she says no, thank you -- Carol.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: And I understand why. Suzanne Malveaux, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton called it an epidemic. Now Facebook says it's taking steps to wipe out fake news. We will tell you how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:55] COSTELLO: Fact checking on Facebook? It could be coming soon. To a status update near you. That's what I was trying to say. That's only with the help of users worldwide, however.

Senior media correspondent Brian Stelter is here to explain much more clearly than I just did. Good morning.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I don't know about that. Good morning, Carol. This is a very interesting development from Facebook, the world's biggest social network, you know, with almost two billion users now. And some of what we see on our newsfeeds these days is just downright fake, it's made up. The stories that trick people.

One of the famous examples from the campaign was a story saying the Pope had endorsed Donald Trump. Of course, the Pope had not endorsed anybody. So these stories have become a plague on Facebook and elsewhere. The company now says it's trying to take steps against that. Here's part of what it says it's going to do now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you suspect a news story is fake, you can report it. It just takes a few taps. Your report helps us track and prevent fake news from spreading.

(END VIDEO CLIP) STELTER: All right. So that's the idea. On Facebook, when you see a story you believe is incorrect, completely made up, you can report it. Fact checkers, groups that are working with Facebook, will take a look at the story and if it's determined that it is totally false, just a complete hoax, then there will be a flag on the story that says this is in dispute by third party fact checkers, take a look at the information. So the --

COSTELLO: Who are the fact checkers?

STELTER: Well, so that's the key.

COSTELLO: Yes.

STELTER: It's going to be groups like PolitiFacts, Snopes, ABC, the AP and others. And other organizations can also join Facebook in this. Mark Zuckerberg's big message is that he is not the one deciding what's true or not. It is established, reputable news organizations.

But already, Carol, in the hours since this has been announced we have heard from mostly right-wing media outlets saying this does not seem fair. We don't trust outlets like PolitiFact.

COSTELLO: So when you say right-wing media outlets, who are they?

STELTER: I'm talking about the Daily Callers, the Breitbarts, the Infowars of the world. You know, Drudge, the popular "Drudge Report" has been making much of this saying this is the thought police that are out to get information.

There is concern here, real concern about a slippery slope. This starts by trying to weed out total hoaxes but the concern is that they will be trying to weed out unpopular opinions. Here's what Zuckerberg said about that on Facebook. He just posted a comment trying to assuage people's concerns. He says, "I understand how sensitive this is and I've instructed our team to proceed carefully and focus on fighting spam, not flagging opinions."

Now Zuckerberg also says he wants more fact-checking organizations to join in. He wants more groups to be helping weed out hoaxes on Facebook.

But this is really complex, Carol, and I think what's most important of all, no matter what these fact checkers do, it's ultimately about the users. If people want to believe totally bogus stories, there's nothing Facebook can do about that.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. I'm sure you're going to be talking about this over the weekend, right?

STELTER: Yes, we are.

COSTELLO: So --

STELTER: We are in "RELIABLE SOURCES," it's a problem I think the whole news industry is grappling with right now.

COSTELLO: Yes.

STELTER: And it's not just Facebook's problem. It's Twitter's problem, Google's problem, and it's ultimately about user responsibility.

COSTELLO: And ultimately bottom line, right? Everybody -- I mean, the media, especially me, wants to restore the faith in media and what we are telling people is true. So maybe that will all play into that. I don't know.

STELTER: Yes, there's a shared responsibility here. Yes.

COSTELLO: All right. Brian Stelter, thanks so much for stopping by.

STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" starts now.