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Trump's Final Stop in Mobile in Thank You Tour; Trump Picks Nick Mulvaney as Budget Director; Obama Says Putin Involved in Russian Hack; China to Return U.S. Underwater Drone; Obama Blames Assad Regime, Russia, Iran for Syrian Bloodshed; Severe Weather Wreaking Havoc Across U.S.; China to Return U.S. Underwater Drone; List of Contenders for DNC Chair Grows; Jury to Decide Fate of Dylann Roof; Protesters Storm N.C. Capitol After Law Signed Stripping New Governor's Power; U.S. Doubles Reward for ISIS Leader's Capture. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired December 17, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:25] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It is 1:00 p.m. eastern. Thank you for joining us on NEWSROOM. I'm Boris Sanchez, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

There are several big stories we're following at this hour. Today, President-elect Donald Trump will get his supporters together for one last big hoorah at a stadium rally before the holidays. The final stop of his Thank You tour heads to Mobile, Alabama. We'll get you to that event live.

Meantime, Trump just announced another choice for his cabinet, South Carolina Representative Nick Mulvaney has been nominated for budget director.

And the U.S. confirming China is planning to return this underwater drone it seized in international waters earlier this week. The announcement coming not long after Trump weighed in, calling China's action "unprecedented."

Let's start with the president-elect in Alabama. The big rally before the holidays there. The final stop before he is headed to Mar-a-Lago for the next few weeks.

CNN national correspondent, Ryan Nobles, is in Mobile.

Ryan, what are we expecting to hear from Donald Trump today?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This crowd starting to fill in. We're a good three hours away before the rally is scheduled to start.

We're anticipating the president-elect to continue telling his supports thank you for supporting him in this recent election. And it's appropriate that he decided to come here to Mobile, Alabama, to close out this tour. It was back in 2015, in August of 2015, where Trump came to this very college football stadium and put on a rally that brought out 30,000 people. At the time, many people wondered why Trump chose to come to Alabama. It was a long way away from the Alabama primary. But it showed he was starting to build passionate support, especially among working class voters. So today, he will come back here to thank the supporters for being with him from the beginning.

We're noticing somewhat of a different tone from Donald Trump, now that he is back on the trail as president-elect. He talked about the tone of his supporters during the campaign and how he hopes their tone is changing as well.

Take a listen to what he said last night in Orlando.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: You people were vicious, violent, screaming, "where is the wall, we want the wall." But now you are mellow and you are cool. And you are not nearly as vicious or violent, right? Because we won.

NOBLES: And this crowd so far doesn't appear that they're in the mood for a mellow rally. They seem fired up to see their president-elect for the first time back here in Alabama since he won that election back in November -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: One other tidbit we wanted to ask about, Ryan, Trump officially announcing South Carolina Representative Nick Mulvaney as budget director. Mulvaney calls the appointment a great honor. What kind of reaction are you hearing on this choice so far?

NOBLES: Well, Republicans, by and large, seem happy with that pick as budget director. He is a hardliner, deficit hawk, someone that wants to rein in spending in a big way. That is why he has received the support of House Speaker Paul Ryan whose position he took on the House Budget Committee. Then you have other Senators, like Rand Paul, who himself is a deficit hawk, who also is very supportive of him in that position.

Democrats may have a problem with it, though. He sits on the Freedom Caucus, the most conservative wing of the Republican Party, and someone that even broke with Republicans and was part of an attempted coup of then-House Speaker John Boehner.

So, it's an interesting choice by Donald Trump and perhaps gives us a glimpse in the direction he will head when he crafts his first budget when he officially takes over as president of the United States -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Ryan Nobles, thank you for the update.

From the president-elect to the current president now. President Obama not mincing words when it comes to claims that Russia intentionally meddled in the U.S. election. He is pointing the finger at Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Based on uniform intelligence assessments, the russians were responsible for hacking the DNC. And that, as a consequence, it is important for us to review all elements of that and make sure that we are preventing that kind of interference through cyberattacks in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Russia's response to these claims? Prove it. A spokesman for Putin saying quote, "Either stop talking about that or produce some proof at last. Otherwise, it all begins to look unseemly."

For more on this, I'm joined by CNN senior international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, live in Moscow.

Clarissa, the president yesterday saying nothing happens in Russia without Putin's approval. How is that accusation specifically being received?

[13:05:22] CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there hasn't been any official recognition of President Obama's press conference yesterday or his accusation. Well, essentially, he all but said that Vladimir Putin must have orchestrated this attack. The official party line by the Kremlin has been for the last two months and continues to be that the Russians had nothing to do with this, they feign outrage at the insinuations, they've called the accusations indecent, they've described them as ludicrous nonsense. So, officially, everybody here is on the same page, this is an outrage, this is not true. It's being portrayed in state media as essentially an attempt to besmirch the reputation of Russia and an attempt to poison the well between the U.S. and Russia, with expectations that there might be a warming of relations when President-elect Donald Trump takes office next month.

So, there is also, at the same time, Boris, kind of interestingly, while people are denying it and accepting the Kremlin's line it's ludicrous nonsense, so to speak, there is a sense people are enjoying the attention Russia is getting and relishing the insinuation Russia would be able to pull off such a move, that Russia could actually, in fact, swing an American election in the favor of their chosen candidate -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: There are already harsh sanctions against Russia put on by the U.S. for the annexation of Crimea. At this point, what realistically could President Obama do to Russia?

WARD: Well, he has several options available to him. One option would be in the form of pushing further sanctions, but previously, we've seen that sanctions don't do that much to curtail Russian aggression. And one could assume that President-elect Trump would get rid of those sanctions as soon as he took office.

Another is a tit for tat, reveal embarrassing secrets potentially about Russia's leaders or groups that Russia is funding overseas. Again, we've seen Putin himself is pretty immune to name being and shaming, as President Obama said in yesterday's press conference. The third option would be a more radical option, and that would be to

take a retaliatory cyber measure. That could be anything from switching off the grid in the city to any number of measures, but this really would be a considerable escalation. And considering the fact that President Obama doesn't have a whole lot of time left in office, it's unclear what he could really get done in such a limited time frame. And even if he does authorize that kind of retaliatory cyber warfare, it's unlikely that the U.S. will ever publicly claim responsibility for it -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Certainly, a limited window for him to act, considering Donald Trump has been so friendly, at least now, toward the Russians.

Clarissa Ward, thank you.

The Pentagon says China's government has agreed to return a U.S. drone it seized in international waters, but not before China accused the U.S. of, quote, "hyping up the incident." It began Thursday when China grabbed the underwater research drone from international waters in the South China Sea. President-elect Trump weighed in on Twitter. He writes, quote, "China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters, rips it out of water, and takes it to China in unprecedented act."

I want to bring in CNN's Matt Rivers who is following the story from Beijing.

Matt, what can you tell us about the response from the Chinese?

Oh, it appears that we've lost Matt Rivers. Hopefully, we'll get him back before the hour is up.

Next, President Obama on the crisis in Syria and Russia's hacking of the U.S. election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Not much happens in Russia without Vladimir Putin. Last I checked, there is not a lot of debate, this happened at the highest levels of the Russian government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[13:12:00] SANCHEZ: At his final news conference of the year, President Obama was reflective of his past eight years in office. He touted his accomplishments but he was candid about what the next administration must tackle.

And as the refugee crisis in Syria worsens, Obama said he feels he has a sense of responsibility. But he made it clear who he feels is to blame for the bloodshed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Responsibility for this brutality lies in one place alone, with the Assad regime and its allies, Russia and Iran. And this blood and these atrocities are on their hands.

I understand the impulse to want to do something. But ultimately, what I have had to do is to think about what can we sustain, what is realistic. But I continue to believe it was the right approach given what realistically we could get done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Joining me now to talk more about this is Julian Zelizer, a historian and professor at Princeton University; and CNN contributor, Salena Zito, a reporter for the "Washington Examiner."

Julian, we'll start with you.

It's a difficult question, but one we have to ask. Could Obama have done more to prevent the bloodshed in Syria?

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN & PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, I don't think the question is if he could do more but what the nation have been willing to do more. I think that is what he is wrestling with in the press conference, was there support in the U.S. for a bigger intervention, could we sustain that. If not, we would have the problems we faced in Iraq. I'm not sure there is that much more on the table at the time.

SANCHEZ: Salena, you.

Obama also discussed Russia's cyber hacking into the U.S. election saying that his administration's response to the hacking was adequate. He said that we handled it the way it should have been handled. Do you really feel that way with a foreign power meddling in the democracy it was handled correctly?

SALENA ZITO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the way Obama explained in the press conference, he felt there was a responsibility as the president to not instigate sort of a larger, bigger problem with Russia. And you know, one of the things that Obama showed yesterday in this press conference is that he has remained the man that we have always believed that he is. And that he was very thought full about the decisions that he made. And it is clear that this is a man that never jumps onto a popular opinion about how he handles any crisis, whether it's cyberattacks, whether it's Syria. You know, that is who he is. And you know, the Democrats and there's many conservatives that were not happy with him not being more forceful on this issue, but he believed in -- that that is how it should be handled.

SANCHEZ: Salena, speaking of the Democrats, we found out this week that, apparently, investigators had approached the DNC repeatedly, almost a dozen times, for about a year before they took action against Russian interference in their systems. Why do you think they hesitated to seek help from the intelligence community?

[13:15:11] ZITO: Well, you know, politics is a funny thing, right? You don't really want all that information out there. You don't really reveal what you are doing in terms of seeking how you win an election. So, I suspect that, based on that and ego. It turns out everything they were going to say any way through WikiLeaks. So, you know, it was a poor decision on the DNC's part. They should have worked in collaboration. It just showed an unwillingness to be -- to have people see what sort of their tactics were politically.

SANCHEZ: Obama, at the press briefing yesterday, to go on with the situation between the U.S. and Russia, says that he talked about Vladimir Putin at the G-20 summit in China, telling him to "cut it out." We've also heard repeatedly that the administration was walking a fine line when it came to their response with Russia. But even in that press briefing yesterday, he didn't go out and directly point the finger at Vladimir Putin in a very aggressive way. He said it's clear that what happens in Russia doesn't happen without his approval. Is that a strong enough response from the president?

ZELIZER: I think there is many Democrats, who are certainly going to be frustrated with what they heard. The same aspect of President Obama can often be a source of frustration. Look, there are many Democrats who are saying, and some Republicans, I'm sure, that if the Russians were hacking into the election and causing all kinds of mischief and the government knew about it, this should have been on the table as it happened. And second, given what happened with the FBI Director James Comey's letter about Hillary Clinton and how that affected the polls, it's hard for them to believe the president wasn't more aggressive as the campaign was going on. And now that he doesn't have that same feeling, that same intense feeling many Democrats have about how was this fair. So, I think there is going to be a lot of frustration with that calm demeanor.

SANCHEZ: Salena, a quick question for you about yesterday. Bromance between both of them, saying relatively kind things about each other, according to what they were saying during the campaign.

I want to play for you some sound about Obama discussing his private conversations with the president-elect. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I haven't shared previously private conversations I've had with the president-elect. I will say that they have been cordial and, in some cases, have involved me making some pretty specific suggestions about how to ensure that regardless of our obvious deep disagreements about policy, maybe I can transmit some thoughts about maintaining the effectiveness, integrity, cohesion of the office, our various democratic institutions, and he has listened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Julian, is this brief moment of conciliation between the two of them over, effectively, or do you think Donald Trump will listen to what he has to say?

ZELIZER: I'm not convinced President-elect Trump has been listening. We'll see how he is handling the conflict-of-interest issues, which is part of what Obama is talking about has not been satisfactory.

This is the first time we really heard Obama express some of his own fears and hesitations about what is coming next and how strong can our Democratic institutions be if tested by a new president who doesn't play by the formal rules of politics. So, we heard a little honest President Obama I think at that moment in the press conference.

SANCHEZ: Salena, we lost your video feed. I believe we still have you on the phone.

What do you think, is there still something to be gained from the relationship between President Obama and President-elect Trump, or are they pretty much just fed up with each other?

ZITO: Well, I think it's a very important relationship that they have. Even if it's done for the sake of the country. I believe that in hints that were given about the relationship between George W. Bush and Obama as he was coming in. This is an incredible job, and no one knows the seriousness and the burden of it better than the former president. And it only helps the country to have a connection between them on some level to be able to hand over through that peaceful transfer of power and at least done with a certain amount of respect.

[13:20:15] SANCHEZ: All right.

Salena Zito, Julian Zelizer, thank you so much, both of you, for the time and perspective.

Up next, severe winter weather is wreaking havoc across the nation, causing numerous accidents across the northeast, some deadly. We have a live report after the break.

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SANCHEZ: Winter weather is sweeping across the country creating disasters on the roads and claiming three lives. Take a look at this video from Maryland. We just got this. It's the moment a tractor trailer lost control on the icy road, over turned. Look at that explosion. This is part of that 55-car pileup on I-95 that left two people dead. Crews are working to figure out exactly how they are going to get everybody off the highway. They're also looking into what caused the pileup.

Earlier, I spoke with the mayor of Baltimore, who warned people to stay off the street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHERINE PUGH, (D), BALTIMORE MAYOR: This is the worst accident we've seen. Thank god, that some of the people are in the hospital and we're looking forward to them being released from the hospital. But I think it was also some Good Samaritans out there to help to relieve some of what could have possibly happened to the individuals, people were reaching in and helping to pull people out of cars.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: It is a wild situation. We're getting an update now. If you look at this live camera of I-95 in that area. The road has reopened, so it is certainly good news.

Maryland not the only place, though, suffering under extreme weather. Almost half the country is going to see temperatures dip below freezing this weekend.

Joining us live from New York City, Sara Ganim.

Sara, any idea when this might go away?

[13:25:06] SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that people across the country, as you mentioned are dealing with these icy road conditions, it's creating quite a busy morning for both travelers and those first responders in many different states.

Of course, the worst accident we've seen was the one you just mentioned in Baltimore, 55-car pileup. Two people died. 11 more injured. We can now show you that video of a tractor trailer sliding off the road, tumbling over into an embankment and exploding. State police in Maryland trying to figure out if that was the cause of the pileup or the result of it.

In any case, it was not the only multi-car crash across the country. In Virginia, there was a 23-car crash in which another person died. Investigators believe a driver who had exited his car and was walking away from the scene was later found dead on the road, was a fatality as a result. And there were 41 other crashes that state police in Virginia were investigating today. Thankfully the rest of them only involved minor injuries. The state police were tweeting out pictures of vehicles that slid off the road, and noting minor injuries.

Drivers in Indiana had to evacuate. They had to bring in ladders to get off the road it was too slick to walk on. In Minneapolis, drivers were stuck pushing their cars out of snow embankments.

We did see a lot of snow in New York City this morning. But as the day has gone on, the temperature has begun to rise, that snow turned into rain. And thankfully, looking ahead to the rest of the weekend, it will be 60 degrees here in New York tomorrow, Boris. People who are out, and they're out and about, doing their Christmas shopping or going about their Saturday plans, at least they have that to look forward to -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: The timing is unbelievably unfortunate. It's the last weekend before Christmas, so a lot of people are out there trying to get their shopping done.

Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

Next, the Democratic Party is at a crossroads. It will soon decide where it wants to go in the future. Will the Bernie Sanders wing lead the party or traditional Democrats keep control?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:30:42] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, there. It's about 1:30 on the east coast. Thank you for joining me. I'm Boris Sanchez, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

Back to the story we brought you at the top of the hour. The Pentagon says China's government agreed to return a U.S. drone, this one that it seized in international waters, but not before China accused the United States of, quote, "hyping up the incident."

We'll try to bring in Matt Rivers one more time. He is following the story from Beijing.

Matt, what can you tell us about this response from the Chinese?

MATT RIVERS, CNN ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR: We got a response from the ministry of defense late Saturday evening local time here. And what the Chinese are saying is that they didn't even know ha this drone was until they pulled it out of the water, recognized it was property of the U.S. Navy, that's when they decided to return it.

But let's bring you back to how this started. It was on Thursday, the 15th that this research vessel, according to the U.S. Navy conducting legal military research, about 50 miles off the coast of the Philippines, it was being tailed by a Chinese naval ship. When the bow ditch went to pick up the underwater drones it was using in the research, the Chinese launched a smaller boat, it beat them to the punch and picked up one of the drones.

Now, according to the Chinese statement that we received, the Chinese went to pick up that drone because they say it was posing navigational and personnel safety issues for passing ships in the region. So, they say once they brought it up, they realized it was U.S. Navy property and went through its procedures.

They have said that the U.S. was unilaterally behind this issue. This is the first time the Chinese accused the United States of being in an area they don't want them to be. The Chinese says the U.S. Navy is spying on them.

Even if they didn't know it was U.S. property when they pulled it out of the ocean, they must have known in some small way. They were sending a message that they are not happy with U.S. Naval operations in that part of the world.

SANCHEZ: One of many they've been sending lately.

Matt Rivers, reporting live from China. Thank you.

You can add one more name to the list of candidates for the Democratic National Committee chairmanship. "Politico" is reporting that Sally Brown, on the right, the executive director of the Idaho Democratic Party, is announcing she plans to run for the job. The other contenders, Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota, who so far is favored for the position; Labor Secretary Tom Perez, also running, Jamie Harrison and Raymond Buckley, the state Democratic chairmen in South Carolina and New Hampshire, respectively. Joining me to talk about this, Julian Zelizer, a historian and

professor at Princeton University; CNN contributor, Salena Zito, a reporter for the "Washington Examiner" and a columnist for the "New York Post."

Salena, let's start with you.

Do you see the party going forward with the so-called Bernie Sanders wing or perhaps a more traditional leader like Tom Perez? What does that choice say about the future of the party?

SALENA ZITO, CNN CONTRIBURO: Well, I think the more important decision going forward, for whoever they pick is not as much ideological as it's about who has the best plan to have more penetration in more states. So, think back to 2005 when Howard Dean was picked as the chair right after the loss from 2004 to George W. Bush for John Kerry. He developed a 50-State Program and within months was able to knock off the House majority for the Republicans, for Democrats, as well as in the U.S. Senate. And they grabbed a bunch of down-ballot seats. What the Democrats need -- this is like the most important competition for them at this moment -- is someone who has a broader vision, someone who wants to party build, someone who wants to put resources and bodies and grassroots activities in all 50 states. I think that is what they really need to look at is who is willing to do that, not as much as ideology.

SANCHEZ: Julian, to you.

Given how fractured the DNC became this year over Clinton supporters versus Sanders supporters, how do you see this shaking out. Who is the candidate on that graphic who you think brings the party together?

[13:35:15] JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN & PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: I certainly -- it was about the personalities, there were common areas in terms of economic policy, that can be overcome. But I think it is the case that organization is the name of the game here. The Democrats are looking at how Republicans have done incredibly well since 2010 at the state level, winning state legislatures, winning governors races and redistricting in ways that favor Republicans in the House. They're looking for the person who can do the same thing for the Democrats. And so, I think really all of the candidates have the potential to do this. Ellison comes with controversy over statements he made that have been tagged as anti-Semitic. He brings a lot to the table in terms of grassroots mobilization and dealing with progressive issues in the right way.

SANCHEZ: Salena, kind of a surprise nominee, Tom Perez, jumping in a little late. Do you think he has a shot to win over the support he needs?

ZITO: He has come out and said he wants to invest in a 50-state infrastructure and he mentioned Howard Dean as a vision for the party in previous years when they were very successful as being a model for the Democrats. I think that speaks very highly. You have to remember the Democrats have -- 69 congressional seats and tons of majorities, almost all of the majorities in the state legislative bodies across the country. So, they need someone with that kind of vision. I think this may be jumps him at least on par with Ellison in terms of someone to really look at in having a way to build this party back up again.

SANCHEZ: Julian --

ZELIZER: I mean, he is a Democrat who is from the Obama administration, but he is also very progressive on issues like voting rights and his relations with labor. So again, he is a kind of figure who has potential, both with organization, but he can really bridge this division that opened up in the primaries because even though he is from the, quote, unquote, "establishment" on many key policies, including voting rights and voting suppression and civil rights, this has been something he has been fighting for a long time. And in some ways, he could be an exciting voice for the Democrats, an exciting public face for them.

SANCHEZ: Certainly, as you said, Salena, a key moment for the Democratic Party here in who he chooses to lead the party into the future.

Salena Zito, Julian Zelizer, thank you so much again for the time.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Up next, life or death for Dylann Roof. The decision lies in the hands of 12 people in South Carolina. We'll look at what they face in the AME Church shooting trial.

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[13:41:17] SANCHEZ: Next month, a jury will wrestle with whether or not to sentence Dylann Roof to death for killing nine worshippers at the Mother Emmanuel Church in South Carolina. It took a jury two hours to convict Roof on 33 charges, including hate crime charges, for targeting his victims on the basis of religion and race. The sentencing phase of the trial will begin January 3rd. Roof says he wants to represent himself in that part of the case.

Joining me is Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor; and former prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson.

Richard, let's start with you.

He says he intends to represent himself, that's -- is that a good idea? He is asking for the death penalty?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFESNE ATTRORNEY & LAW PROFESSOR: Yes, he is. That is what he is doing, exactly. He had a hearing before the judge, the judge found him competent to represent himself. And, you know, Boris and Joey, in a case like this, when there were 70 casings on the floor of hollow-tip .45 caliber rounds where he slaughtered people in a church and admitted in his manifesto that this was his intent to kill these people because black people are raping white people, and he couldn't take it anymore, he set himself up for this. He wants the death penalty. He will not argue. Lawyers spent years and years studying, and psychologists study how to

handle the mitigation phase of death penalty cases. He doesn't have any of that going for him right now. With delusional alacrity, he runs into this phase of the case, he wants the death penalty. He was prepared to take his life if he got caught by the police after the shooting. He is going to take his life now. There is nothing that is it going to save him.

SANCHEZ: Joey, at this point, it could get ugly, because if he defends himself he has to present his case. For him to have that kind of soapbox, if you will, with some of the victims' family members in the courtroom, that presents an ugly situation. Is there anything to be done to avoid that?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think this is how it will play out.

And good afternoon, Boris.

Good afternoon, Richard.

From a prosecutor's perspective, they will present their case and it will be compelling. The key to this is, is to present enough aggravating factors to allow for and, otherwise, have the jury consider and move toward the issue of sentencing him to death. I think how the government will do that is they will lay out, of course, the cruel and heinous nature of the acts, they will lay out the vulnerability of the victims, substantial preparation. And, of course, the dicey part of to your questions comes when the victims give their victim impact evidence. In the event he, of course, represents himself -- and let's be clear he changed his mind before. In the guilt phase, he said I want to represent myself. The judge said, you know what, you should reconsider. He did. And his lawyers represented him. There is still time. And the judge is giving him until the 3rd to change his mind again.

But the then-question becomes, Boris, in the event that the victim impact evidence is there, could he or should he be permitted cross- examine. On the one hand, I have the tendency to believe the government certainly wants to protect those victims and not let that happen. The judge doesn't want to make a mockery of that court system and permit it to happen, and the government doesn't need to happen to prove his case. But if you don't allow him to ask any other questions, does it otherwise impact any other grounds for appeal he may have?

So, it's a very dicey scenario in which you could be in a situation where he does confront them and that would be the most unfortunate thing of all.

SANCHEZ: Certainly.

Richard?

[13:44:59] HERMAN: He absolutely will be confronting them at this part of the case. Let's get it clear, his attorney wanted to put forth some sort of mental deficiency argument to try to save his life. Dylann Roof rejected that. He rejected it. So, any statements made by his lawyer have been stricken from the record in the penalty -- in the guilt phase of the case.

So now we move into the penalty phase, there is no evidence of a mental disorder or anything to suggest compassion or forgiveness or some reason, a family, some reason to save his life. There is nothing there. Dylann Roof does not know how to put that into evidence.

Joey, he is going down. This is not an issue, a moral discussion on death penalty. They have it in this state, it's rarely used by the feds, it was used in this case and he is going to get the death penalty.

SANCHEZ: Joey, do you agree?

JACKSON: You know, I think that if ever there would be a compelling case to be made, Boris, for the death penalty, to really be used and apply, it would be this case.

HERMAN: Yes.

JACKSON: And what is really troublesome is the fact that you had people who were so compassionate and welcoming of him and handing him a Bible and handing him scripture, and then when they were the most vulnerable and closing their eyes to pray, he guns them down. Even the whole issues of his hatred and manifesto, I think it's so compelling that a jury very well may be moved in this instance to apply the death penalty. And I don't think many people, Boris and Richard, would be surprised in the event that that occurred.

SANCHEZ: Now, Richard --

(CROSSTALK)

HERMAN: The irony is that a church, which stands for compassion and forgiveness and understanding -- these are the principles he will be looking for or should be looking for in this phase of the trial. He is not going to do it. This jury -- if you think a flash verdict came on the guilt phase, watch how fast they come back on death penalty.

JACKSON: I will say one other thing, if I can, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Quickly, Joey.

JACKSON: He says that he wanted to do this to start a race war. And you know, I think all of us should take notice of how that community, just the opposite, has come together, and been compassionate, and have prayed and have forgiven and have understood. And so, the reality is that at the end of the day, the race war did nothing of the sort. It brought that community together and really created a lot of love.

SANCHEZ: Right.

Joey and Richard, thank you for joining us this weekend. We will see you again soon, I'm sure. JACKSON: Thank you.

HERMAN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Next, a fierce political fight in North Carolina. Protestors storming the state capital, furious over a new law that strips power from the newly elected Democratic governor.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is covering this story for us.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Boris, it's a not-so-warm welcome for North Carolina's Governor-elect Roy Cooper. Not even sworn into office yet, but as you mentioned, already caught in a bitter battle with Republican lawmakers. I will break it down for you with more on the demonstrations at the capital, when CNN NEWSROOM continues.

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[13:51:03] SANCHEZ: The Republican governor of North Carolina, Pat McCrory, signed a new law stripping executive powers from his successor, Democrat Roy Cooper. Protesters in North Carolina were detained after speaking out against the proposed law to remove state and county election boards from Democratic control. Republican lawmakers say they're simply enacting constitutional checks and balances, but to Democrats, it's a shameful power grab.

CNN's national correspondent, Polo Sandoval, is here.

Polo, we thought this might end after the campaign, a hotly contested, nasty campaign. It's not over.

SANDOVAL: And it could even get worse. There's that question, what is happening in North Carolina? Is this constitutional check and balances or, as Democrats describe it, is it Republicans with this last-minute power grab trying to make it harder for a Democrat who is about to move into the governor's mansion? Some of the most restrictive measures have already been signed into law. But there's another bill that remains on Pat McCrory's desk. The question, will he sign it?

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(SHOUTING)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): The latest legislative session closing with outrage of crowds in North Carolina's capitol.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATOR: It's difficult to hear because of the disruptive noise outside the chamber.

SANDOVAL: Demonstrators are angry over a series of bills rolled out over a hastily-called special session this week where lawmakers in the Republican-controlled legislature want to limit incoming Democratic Governor Roy Cooper's powers.

ROY COOPER, (D), GOVERNOR-ELECT OF NORTH CAROLINA: What is happening now is unprecedented. What's happening now is going to affect the issues that make a difference to everyday working families.

SANDOVAL: Among the restrictions, requiring the Republican-controlled Senate to approve all of Governor-elect Cooper's cabinet appointees. Also, significantly decreasing the number of appointments allowed by the new administration, from 1500 to 300. Additionally, Cooper would be blocked from appointing some members of the State Board of Education and all members of the Board of Trustees for the University of North Carolina system.

Cooper beat out conservative Republican incumbent, Pat McCrory, by only 10,000 votes. McCrory claimed fraud and challenged the outcome before conceding four weeks later.

UNIDENTIFIED NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATOR: This is majority rule. We have elections.

SANDOVAL: Despite large Republican majorities, leaders say they'll continue to be relevant in the state. But Democrats call it a power grab. It makes for what will be an even more turbulent transition for McCrory's Democratic successor.

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SANCHEZ: The question here, of course, what do the Democrats do in response?

SANDOVAL: Roy Cooper has threatened to sue. It's yet to be seen where that goes.

One thing to clarify, Boris, there was already one bill signed into law yesterday which reshapes the way the election board is selected. The most restrictive one that we mentioned in the piece, where the Senate would have to approve his cabinet appointments, that one is still on Pat McCrory's desk at this hour. The question is will he sign it, making for a tougher and not so warm welcome for North Carolina's next governor.

SANCHEZ: It's like a microcosm of how divided the country is on partisan lines and in battleground states.

Polo, thank you.

SANDOVAL: You bet.

[13:54:20] SANCHEZ: All right.

Coming up, the U.S. more than doubling its reward for -- I can't say it -- Abu Bakr al Baghdadi.

We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: The United States is now offering $25 million as a reward for information leading to the capture of ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi. That's more than double the previous reward.

Barbara Starr takes a look at the United States' progress in the fight against ISIS.

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BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As President Obama prepares to hand off the fight against ISIS to the new commander-in-chief, Donald Trump, the White House says there is significant number.

BRETT MCGURK, U.S. ENVOY TO THE COALITION AGAINST ISIS: The number of battle-ready fighters inside Iraq and Syria is now at its lowest point that it's ever been.

STARR: The U.S. estimates there are now 12,000 to 15,000 ISIS personnel, a dramatic decline from the peak in September 2014 when ISIS had amassed close to 32,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria.

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STARR: ISIS had always been able to replace its ranks, moving people across the Turkish border into Syria. But, no more.

MCGURK: ISIL now has no access to international border, and this has significantly impacted the overall campaign because they are now a very isolated entity.

STARR: Based on estimates from nearly 17,000 coalition strikes, the U.S. believes 50,000 ISIS fighters, in total --

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STARR: -- have been killed over the last two years. Its ranks slashed by nearly 75 percent.

The top coalition commander says that's only part of the story.

LT. GEN STEPHEN TOWNSEND, COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN IRAQ & SYRIA: We've taken back over half of the land that Iraq, for example, lost to ISIL in 2014. So, I think that's a measure of the progress.

STARR: Now the top priority, get ISIS out of its self-declared capital in Raqqa, Syria.

TOWNSEND: We also know they are plotting attacks on the West. And we know that central to external operations plotting is the city of Raqqa. And that's why we need to get down there and isolate this city as fast as we can.

STARR: U.S. Special Operations Forces watch Raqqa around the clock from drones overhead. It's all led to key intelligence and a critical strike. One drone struck the vehicle with three ISIS leaders inside, operatives that had been involved, according to the U.S., in attacks against the West. Two, said to have facilitated the deadly attacks in Paris last year.

But even with the death of many fighters, ISIS has not given up the fight. ISIS has retaken the area around Palmyra --