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538 Members of the Electoral College to Meet Tomorrow; Jadon and Anias McDonald Released From the Hospital This Week; Trump Has Not Yet Directly Called Out Russia for Hacking process; No Longer A Businessman Starting On Inauguration Day; Officer Jordan Jones Saves Family in Oklahoma. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 18, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. So glad you are with us.

We begin tonight with a dire warning from prominent Republican senator John McCain telling our Jake Tapper Russian hacks aimed at influencing the U.S. election threatened to quote "destroy democracy." Also, McCain says the existing world order may be crumbling. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: What's happening here when we see the seizure of these ships and when we see that the cyberattacks and when we see the dismemberment of Syria, when we see the tragedies that are taking place there which are heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking, while we sat by and watched all this happening, this is a sign of a possible unraveling of the world order that was established after World War II, which had made one of the most peaceful periods in the history of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: McCain's comment come as a brand new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll shows more than half of Americans are quite concern by news that Russian hackers tried to influence U.S. election. I should note, there is a pretty sharp partisan divide evidence in this poll, 86 percent of Democrats say they are concerned about the hacking, 29 percent of Republicans say the same. But most Americans do not believe that the Russian hacking, in fact, swayed the outcome of the election.

Also, tomorrow, 538 members of the Electoral College will meet to formally select the nation's next president. Remember, those electors not constitutionally bound to follow the will of the people they represent, meaning the way the state that you voted in actually went, but typically, they always do. Some Electoral College members say they are being pressured to go rogue and become so-called faithless electors.

Right now, president-elect Trump is projected to have 306 electoral votes, 270 are needed to win.

I do want to focus so first tonight on senator McCain's push for a select committee to investigate the Russian hacks. This call now bipartisan. Republican senator Lindsey Graham, as well as Democratic senators Chuck Schumer and Jack Reed now all calling for this select committee with Senator McCain.

Let's bring in my panel. Betsy Woodruff for the politics reporter for "the Daily Beast," Jeffrey Lord is a former White House political director for President Reagan and a Trump supporter, and Mayor Michael Nutter, former mayor of Philadelphia and a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Guys, thank you all for being here.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello, Poppy.

HARLOW: Hello. Good Sunday evening to you. You're always chipper. I love it.

Let me begin with you, Jeffrey. President-elect Trump is not one of the voices in this bipartisan group of pretty senior senators who are calling for this investigation. Instead, as you know, he has questioned the voracity of U.S. intelligence on the Russian hack of the electoral process. To date, he has not tweeted or said one negative thing about Russian president Vladimir Putin or the hacking. In fact, the last time he had a press conference, more than 140 days ago, he actually said, he says in jest that Russia should hack or try to recover Hillary Clinton's 30,000 plus missing emails. Why is he doing this? What is the strategy, the mindset?

LORD: I don't know. You know. But, you know, Poppy, a couple things. Number one, I went to the Trump rally when he was here in nearby Hershey the other night. There were 12,000 Pennsylvanians there. I can assure you, they did not vote for Donald Trump because they have been persuaded by the Russians. They voted for Donald Trump because of their views of Hillary Clinton and her party and their verdict on the Obama administration.

HARLOW: Jeffrey, I want to say, there are two separate things. I mean, as I just said, the polling shows that most Americans don't think Russia actually swayed the election.

LORD: Right. But, Poppy -

HARLOW: What I'm asking is why the president-elect has not once addressed or taken on Putin or Russia or the Kremlin and said, stop messing with America's elections.

LORD: Poppy, I hope he would do it. And I will tell you why. He sent out a tweet the other week in which he said that people had -- he would have won California or New York if people who were not citizens had not been allowed to vote.

Now, it doesn't make any difference whether you are Vladimir Putin or whether you are an illegal, undocumented immigrant in America or a non-voting citizen of this country and you vote. And there have been all kinds of studies that show this does, in fact, happen. So I think the whole thing should be pulled together. HARLOW: Jeffrey, why are we going down that -- why are we going down

that road? I mean, he also said that millions of Americans voted illegally, you know, for Hillary Clinton.

LORD: We don't know how many.

HARLOW: And there is no fact, there is no evidence to support the claim. Mayor?

LORD: Poppy, we do not know -- Poppy, we have two --

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: We do not know. Let's find out.

HARLOW: We don't know a lot of things. And that doesn't mean you throw them out there as could best. I mean, come on.

LORD: Investigate. Do a deep-seeded investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

[19:05:05] HARLOW: Mayor Nutter, jump in here.

MICHAEL NUTTER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Come on. The campaign is over. You don't have to adhere to all the talk.

LORD: You lost.

NUTTER: There are two facts here. No, Jeffrey, you are actually wrong. Donald Trump said what he said with not one shred of evidence and has yet to produce any. But CIA's Mr. Brennan DNI's Mr. Clapper and the FBI's Mr. Comey, have all agreed that Russia did interfere with the overall electoral process. And it is absolutely wrong to say that somehow, the leaking of certain information, the activity that they were engaged in didn't have some effect on some Americans. I'm not talking about machines or anything else. And so there are no facts from Mr. Trump about who --

LORD: There are no facts for them either.

NUTTER: Who didn't have the right to the intelligence agencies, in agreement, collectively --.

LORD: Mayor, what --

NUTTER: That was actual interference by the Russians in the American electoral process.

HARLOW: You guys, let me bring Betsy in here.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Betsy, what do you make of the fact the president-elect has not joined this chorus for a select committee to investigate this? Has not been vocal about the hack, you know, in any way. BETSY WOODRUFF, POLITICS REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: It is weird. And

it puts him out of step with the conventional view within his own party about Russia and about how the United States ought to relate to Russia. What the U.S. ought to do to push back against Russia and incursions against sovereign nations and Eastern Europe.

That said, I think the question of how much influence that Russia had on the American election, one really important fact here is all the operations that Russia did that we know about were sort of nationally targeted, right. Russia wasn't telling Hillary Clinton not to go to Wisconsin. Russians weren't door knocking in Pennsylvania. All of the Intel in the hacks that they pushed would have affected all American voters. Despite that Hillary Clinton still won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes. Which would suggest, I think, potentially, that Russia's efforts might not have been as effective as folks in the Democratic Party are saying.

HARLOW: That's interesting. Let's listen to how why the incoming - let's listen to how incoming White House chief of staff Reince Priebus responded when he was asked about this this morning on "FOX News Sunday."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I mean, this whole thing is a spin job. And I think what the Democrats ought to do is look in the mirror and face the reality that they lost the election. And they lost the election because they're so incompletely out of touch with the American people that they are still shell shocked and they can't believe it. What is their response? Recounts, Russians, leaked CIA reports.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Jeffrey, to you. It was just at the end of this week the CIA director John Brennan put out a statement saying, look, I and the director of national intelligence, head of the FBI, are all on the same page as to not just, you know, that there was hacking, but as to the scope of the hacking and the intent of the Russians.

When you look at the incoming president, clearly not on the same page with intelligence officials. How do you expect that to play when he takes the oath and becomes the president?

LORD: What I find fascinating here, Poppy, is that the house intelligence committee has asked the intelligence community to come before their committee and present their evidence. And they said no. Now, what's the deal here? Are we just going to be leaking stories -- ?

NUTTER: I think they're trying to --

LORD: -- to the "Washington Post" and "New York Times"? Let's get it all out there. Go to the house intelligence committee and get it out. Don't say, no, we're not going to do it.

NUTTER: Jeffrey, you know, they will --

LORD: That's a little --

NUTTER: Jeffrey, you know they will go to Congress. They are responding to President Barack Obama's request. They are responding to -- first, President Barack Obama's request that they do a thorough investigation, get it done before the inauguration. After that, I'm sure those agencies will do whatever Congress asks them to do. You know that. Cut it out.

HARLOW: Betsy, one of the things, Betsy, that Reince Priebus said this morning to Chris Wallace is, he said, look. Then why aren't these, you know, intelligence heads getting in front of cameras and making the statements, putting the statement out to the American people?

WOODRUFF: Because the investigations are still underway, as the attorney general said earlier this morning on CNN. Well, that is the DOJ is still looking into the Russian hacks. They are still figuring it out. It would be irresponsible for the head of the FBI or for the head of the CIA to say, guess what, guys? We have all this stuff figured out. Because they are still working on it.

And additionally, as the mayor Nutter said, the president directed the Intel community to do a review. Is it a bit irksome there are leaks coming out, that we aren't completely certain right this minute, exactly what happened, exactly who knew what when? Sure. And I understand that that is frustrating, particularly for folks who support Trump, feeling it is part of some sort of conspiracy to undermine him?

That said it takes the Intel community a while to do its job. And this notion that we should rush Intel, we should post it to be public reports ready is itself the kind of thing that's gotten the CIA in trouble in the past.

[19:10:17] HARLOW: At the same time though, Betsy, and I have to go there, but at the same time, we did hear the president -- you did hear the president and, you know, John Brennan in his letter saying, basically we know the scope. We know the intent.

So guys, I have to leave it there.

Betsy, Jeffrey, Michael, thank you all very much.

LORD: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Lively as always.

NUTTER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Ahead this hour, a last chance for Democrats who want to block Donald Trump from becoming president. The Electoral College, one group trying to pressure electors to cast their vote for anyone but the president-elect. That is a very, very hard thing to imagine happening, but we'll see. Also, the president-elect releasing details on how he will avoid

conflicts of interests with his business empire. Those details raising some questions. We'll debate it ahead.

Also, a beautiful story for you tonight, these conjoined twins. We have been telling you about them over the past few months on this show. They have finally been released from the hospital and our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta has a report on the McDonald boys ahead this hour.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:13:54] HARLOW: The last ditch push among some to convince 37 Electoral College voters to jump ship, go rogue and vote for -- not vote for the president-elect is in its waning hours. The 538 members of the Electoral College convene in their respective states tomorrow to cast their votes.

Meantime, on Friday, a federal appeals court in Colorado denied an emergency request to allow so-called faithless electors to ignore the state's popular vote and vote whichever way they personally want to.

Professor Joshua Douglas teaches and researches election law and voting rights at the University of Kentucky. He is the co-editor of a new book, "Election Law Stories" who joins us from Lexington. Thanks for joining us.

JOSHUA DOUGLAS, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY: Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

HARLOW: Are any of these last-ditch efforts likely to change anything tomorrow? I mean, if you look back in the history of this nation, more than 99 percent of electors have always voted the way that their state has gone. Why should anyone think this time is different?

DOUGLAS: I think that's right. I don't think this time will be different. I would be surprised if there were enough electors not to vote for Donald Trump to make a difference. And I think the reason why, in part, is because the electors are party loyalties. They are selected in each state because of their activities for the Republican Party. I think it is very unlikely that they will switch sides.

[19:15:22] HARLOW: As you well know, Alexander Hamilton wrote about the Electoral College and the process and the federalist papers. Federal papers 68 to be exact. And here is what he wrote, that the process is to ensure quote "the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications to be the president."

The 12th amendment, however, does not obligate electors to vote one way or the other. States, though, do. States like Georgia says if you, you know, recuse yourself, if you don't show up, then someone else will take your place. States like Colorado, as we saw with this lawsuit this week, says you have to vote the way the state goes. Walk us through some of the history here with faithless electors. DOUGLAS: Well, there have not been a lot of faithless electors in our

history as you said. Over 99 percent of electors have voted consistently with the states.

You know, initially, when Alexander Hamilton wrote that, and at the founding, the state legislature simply appointed the electors. We didn't have direct elections for president. And now, all of the states do have their members -- their voters select who should be in the Electoral College. And so, I think most people believe that, look, if the majority in a state has chosen the candidate, then the electors should go along.

As you said, a handful of states, I think over half to states, have laws that do say that the electors are required to vote for whoever won in that state. And some of those laws have been challenged. But no court has ruled against those laws yet.

HARLOW: And so, Joshua, as you know, it was a long time ago that the Electoral College was formed. And it was formed, you know, for very different reasons and in a very different world than we are living in today. I mean, a lot of it had to do with slavery and representation of the population. Does it make sense today, in the world as we know it?

DOUGLAS: Personally, I don't think so. I think the Electoral College is undemocratic. And this is regardless of the outcome for this election. But we do see this election where the candidate who won almost three million more votes is not going to win the Electoral College. I think the Electoral College, had a purpose, especially when we weren't in a situation when you could have nationwide campaigns. So you needed to have some representation for the far away areas.

Now, with nationwide campaigns, a lot of people in many states, in most of the states, feel their vote doesn't really matter because the electoral college is going to come down to only a handful of states. And I think that is a problem.

HARLOW: Josh, thank you very much. Glad to have you on.

DOUGLAS: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: That is the legal view now to the politics of it all.

President-elect Donald Trump weighed in on the push to flip electors from some earlier this evening. Here's what he tweeted. If my many supporters acted and threaten people like those who lost the election are doing, they would be scorned and called terrible names.

The incoming White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, was on FOX News this morning and he blamed partisan politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRIEBUS: It is about Moveon.org. It is about Democrats that can't accept the outcome of the election. It is about delegitimizing the American system. It is not going to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's discuss all of this with political commentator Jeffrey Lord. He is back with us. And Washington state elector Bret Chafalo, who is a so-called Hamilton elector. He is one of the folks trying to convince the other electors to vote for someone other than Donald Trump.

Thank you both for being here.

Bret, first to you. You know this is beyond a long shot, right? And you know that history shows us that this doesn't typically happen. Walk me through your mindset, in trying to convince some of your fellow Republican electors not to cast their vote for Donald Trump. And therefore, frankly, not represent the majority voice of the people in their state.

BRET CHAFALO, HAMILTON ELECTORS: First, thanks for having me. And we have said from day one of starting Hamilton electors back on November 9th, that this is a long shot. However, through the work of hundreds of volunteers and many, many conversations through Republican electors, we do believe there is a realistic chance of 37 Republican electors voting for someone other than Donald Trump tomorrow. And what makes this different than the other elections, where 99 percent of electors did vote as they were quote-unquote "supposed to," is the emergency that is Donald Trump. He is completely unfit to be president. He has foreign ties that are influencing him. These are all the things Hamilton warned us about.

[19:20:00] HARLOW: You think that. But millions of Americans didn't think that. And yes, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote thus far, by almost three million votes. But that's not the system we have right now. And if we want to change the constitution and if we want to change the system, that's one thing. But do you worry about threatening the system that we country? Basically saying, I know better than all of you who voted for him in my state.

CHAFALO: Well, I think the people who knew better were the founding fathers who put this system in place for exactly this sort of situation. The constitution says nothing about popular vote. And the constitution is our guidance in this. And we get an extra sense of what they wanted through Hamilton's federalist 68, which really does give us a good idea of what they wanted electors to do. So we believe it is our constitutional duty, and it actually keeps the system we have in placed going.

HARLOW: Jeffrey, do you think that the Electoral College makes sense in the world that we know and live in today?

LORD: Yes, yes. Poppy, the name of this country is the United States of America. The states elect the president. And we are talking here about the federalist 68. The "Wall Street Journal" looked at Federalist 68.

And I just want to quote here that they talk about -- Alexander Hamilton writes in Federalist 68 that the Electoral College is to raise quote-unquote "every practical obstacle" quote-unquote "against" quote "cabal intrigue and corruption and other (INAUDIBLE) which might be communicated from them to the people."

This anti-Trump move is exactly a cabal. It is exactly what Alexander Hamilton warned about. So my friend here on the other end isn't, in fact, an anti-Hamilton delegate. This is all anti-Hamiltonian plot to have a cabal to undo the just election of the president of the United States. And for that matter, if it is applied to Donald Trump, it could have been done to Abraham Lincoln. It could have been to George Washington. It could have been done to John F. Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt and Barack Obama and it is wrong.

HARLOW: I want you, guys, to listen to this ad. No doubt you have seen that it has been playing recently with a number of celebrities making this push. We don't have it? That's disappointing. Well, this ad --

LORD: I saw it though, Poppy.

CHAFALO: So did I.

HARLOW: Hopefully the viewers have seen it. Based on this ad is number of celebrities coming on television and saying, you know, do what our guest wants them to do, vote against the will of the majority of the people in your state. This was directed - directly at a Candice elector, Ashley McMillan. And here is how she responded in an opinion piece.

She wrote, I won't violate the will of the people of Kansas simply because costal elites think Mr. Trump tweets too much. Bret, your response?

CHAFALO: My response is that's -- I'm happy for her to do what her conscious guides her to do. All we are trying to do is give Republican electors the knowledge, the support, to do what they think is right. We aren't trying to force anybody into voting for or against anyone. We just want them to search their soul and see if they believe that Donald Trump is --

HARLOW: Is that really the case? Is that really the care, Bret? You're not pushing them to vote for or against anyone?

CHAFALO: Absolutely not. It's been something I felt very strongly about the whole time. Myself and Michael Bucker, the two people, her is an elector in Colorado, the two people who started Hamilton electors back in November 9th. And we had some very core beliefs that we wanted to make sure didn't get violated throughout this process.

We have also come out the entire time against individual citizens contacting electors. So the flood of mails and emails, we have tried to stop it as much as we can.

HARLOW: It is an important point because we know that one of, you know, at least one of these electors has received death threats from the reporting that Rosa Flores has done is an important point. Jeffrey Lord --

LORD: So have I.

HARLOW: You have? Hold on. On second. I just want to hear Bret has experienced. What have you gotten?

CHAFALO: Many threats from both the right and the left on this. I don't have any in front of me, the threats to myself, my family, harm, sexual assault. All of those kinds of things. But that is not going to stop me for standing up to what I believe is a constitutional duty.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord, final thought?

LORD: I mean, I spoke to an elector from Pennsylvania the other day and same thing. I mean, she showed me her iPhone. In the day, had registered thousands just that day, registered thousands. And she would looked at them. Coincidentally, she was a sheriff. And she looked at these things, and they're threatening her life, you know, if she doesn't vote against Donald Trump.

There's no room for this kind of thing in America. This is disgraceful. This is disgraceful. And people on the other side are fanning these flames and they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

HARLOW: Brett, final thought to you? I have to let you respond that, Bret. He says you should be ashamed of yourself. You say?

LORD: No, not - I mean, I trust he's got his own, legit opinion. But I'm just saying, this is not what the constitution is about, respectfully.

[19:25:06] CHAFALO: I agree that threats of violence to anybody and their family is not what the constitution is about. And I fully condemn anyone on any side, on both sides, who are making threats.

HARLOW: I have to leave it there, guys. I'm glad we can have this debate. It is what America is all about.

LORD: Thanks, Poppy.

CHAFALO: Thank you.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord, Bret Chafalo, nice to have you both on.

I can't wait to show you this next story. Two months ago, conjoined twin boys underwent a ground breaking surgery to separate them, literally separate their heads. Now, they have reached a new milestone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've all come to an agreement that it is not good-bye, it is just see you later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, was there when the boys finally left the hospital. What is next for them, when we come back.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:29:09] HARLOW: Just two months after ground breaking surgery separated twin baby boys conjoined at the head, Jadon and Anias McDonald were released from the hospital this week. Doctors described their recovery as a rare rebirth. It was a day their parents have been waiting for for a very long time. In an October interview with CNN before the operation, they talked about their love for their twins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN MCDONALD, FATHER OF ANIAS AND JADON: When we had the boys, of course, they were normal little boys. Just like any other two little babies you would see, except for being conjoined.

NICOLE MCDONALD, MOTHER OF ANIAS AND JADON: I could almost keep them like this right now, you know, because they're so perfect.

C. MCDONALD: They're normal little boys.

N. MCDONALD: They're beautiful. They are perfect. They are so funny, and they are --

C. MCDONALD: Happy little boys.

[19:30:01] N. MCDONALD: Happy, you know.

C. MCDONALD: And crazy.

N. MCDONALD: They're crazy. Crazy. Jadon tries to roll off the bed and drag Anias with him. Anias talks and he can -- my favorite thing is to sit here and hear them talking with each other down the hallway. They talk back and forth. And they, you know, they're just beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, that was then. And this is now. I'm so happy to show you this story. Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta was there this week when the two little boys left the hospital on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

N. MCDONALD: You are going to have to drive the van and I'll ride in one ambulance and we will have someone else will ride in the other one.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the day the McDonalds had been waiting for, discharge.

C. MCDONALD: There is your brother, Jadon. GUPTA: Jadon and Anias, born connected at the head, were finally

separated in a marathon 27-hour operation. While doctors are pleased with the recovery, they have battled infections, fevers and seizures to get here.

For the past two months, this has been Jadon and Anias McDonald's home, cranial peg as twins, were separated two months ago to the day. They are now going to move on to a rehab facility. But I wanted to say hi to them one last time at this hospital.

I love this.

N. MCDONALD: People think --

C. MCDONALD: They always touch. Yesterday during the -- as soon as they were in the wagon downstairs, I looked over and they had their arms locked. And then I look over again and they were holding hands. They have a great bond.

GUPTA: Loves the camera, too.

C. MCDONALD: This kid here was born for the camera.

N. MCDONALD: He sure was.

GUPTA: I'm really happy for you guys. Really, really happy.

N. MCDONALD: Isn't this the best?

C. MCDONALD: Thank you.

GUPTA: You're going to be OK saying good-bye to all these folks, Nicole?

N. MCDONALD: We have all come to an agreement that it is not good- bye, it is just see you later.

GUPTA: When the boys were first born, mom and dad, Nicole and Christian, would wheel them around the hospital in a little red wagon. Why? It was the only thing that would fit them top to bottom. Well, they are now going to be leaving the hospital again in a red wagon. But this time, they are going to be side by side. They spent 174 days in this hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, yes.

GUPTA: For the McDonald twins, it is good-bye, but on to a new beginning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: Well, Poppy, it doesn't get much more heartwarming than that. The boys finally leaving the hospital. And look, it wasn't a day that anyone was absolutely certain would come. Yet, a major operation here. They got so much care in the intensive care unit. And Dr. Goodrich said, I mean, he told me that on the day they were

separated, it was like a second birthday for them, a rebirth of sorts. And now, they are going to go to rehab and learn all the things that they would have otherwise learned during that first year of life. That's what is going to be happening. We will keep an eye on them. We will surely bring it to you.

Back to you for now.

HARLOW: So glad that you will, Sanjay. Thank you so much. What an incredible story. I told you, the best story of the night.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:36:26] HARLOW: President-elect Donald Trump has not yet directly called out Moscow or Vladimir Putin for hacking into the U.S. election process in what the CIA and FBI has said was an attempt to influence the election.

On "STATE OF THE UNION" today, CNN political commentator Van Jones said the president-elect should respond to the cyber war that Russia is waging on the United States. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He can respond personally to an attack. He can respond as a partisan to an attack. But he can't respond as a patriot to an attack? This is an attack on our country. And I just think that everybody sitting here is trying to pretend this is normal. This is not normal. And it is dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's Nic Robertson sat down with two men who have had direct dealings with the Russian president to talk about Vladimir Putin's diplomatic style.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): When the Soviet Union collapsed, the world thought Russia would be a different place. And for a decade under president Yeltsin, it was.

BILL BROWDER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, HERITAGE They had a free press, they had a democracy and they had a civil society. The problem is they didn't have any laws. They didn't have any rules.

ROBERTSON: Bill Browder, an investment banker, was there in Russia, making millions amid the chaos. But then Putin came to power. A few years later, he clashed with Browder.

BROWDER: I pointed out Putin and the people around him have stolen an enormous amount of money from the Russian people and have covered it up. ROBERTSON: Browder's businesses were raided. One of his

whistleblowing lawyers (INAUDIBLE), were thrown in jail, brutalized and died there many months later. Putin rejects every accusation Browder makes and as barred him from Russia for the past decade.

BROWDER: At this point, many people consider me to be Putin's number one foreign enemy. And as such, my life is at risk.

ROBERTSON: He is right to be worried. Putin's critics get silenced.

ANDREW WOOD, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: He has a proven record of murder for a start either directly ordered or indirectly encouraged.

ROBERTSON: Sir Andrew Wood was Britain's ambassador to Russia at the same time Browder was making his millions. He dismisses Putin's denials of any influence in the deaths.

WOOD: When Putin came to power, his main theme was Russia should be a great power. He chose not economic reform and political progress but a relapse into what amounts to sort of a form of narcissistic xenophobia.

ROBERTSON: In foreign policy, that's intervention in Ukraine and Syria, annexing Crimea, providing overnight popularity for Putin at the price of ruiness (ph) long-term economic sanctions. Pretty soon, all this will be on president-elect Donald Trump's plate.

BROWDER: He wants to be seen as a great deal maker and as a winner. And so Putin has made his wish list very clear. He wants Ukraine, he wants sanctions lifted and he wants to be left alone in Syria.

ROBERTSON: Problem is, Putin's idea of deal making, not much of a de.

WOOD: What he is offering, I don't think is anything at all. Nice words, perhaps.

ROBERTSON: And even his words warns Browder of worth not much.

BROWDER: Putin doesn't keep his word. Putin always betrays deals. He takes what is offered and then tries to take some more in the future. And that's probably won't going to play well with Trump, who will feel ripped off.

ROBERTSON: And what are his options going to be then?

BROWDER: To become probably much tougher than any other U.S. head of state before him towards Russia.

WOOD: I think at least for a period, it will be very much in Putin's interests to take things as he called.

ROBERTSON: The alternative could be deeply troubling. Two powerful men, two big egos.

BROWDER: Well, I can imagine that it will end up in a position where both these guys would be thumping their chest and stirring each other down.

ROBERTSON: Twenty five years of post-cold war diplomacy could be about to face their biggest test yet.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nic, thank you so much for that report. Fascinating.

Coming up, Donald Trump no longer a businessman starting on inauguration day. But how much will the president-elect will allow himself to talk about the Trump Corporation? New details on the line key himself is drawing that he says he will not caught (ph).

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:44:22] HARLOW: A big, unanswered question since Election Day is just how much of a private businessman will Donald Trump continue to be after he takes the oath of office? His team says he will be totally separated from his vast business empire. His transition spokeswoman now says the president-elect might even allow some restrictions on talking with his family members at all about the business. As we do expect to learn more when he does hold a press conference on the issue of press conferences scheduled for last week but a press conference that was subsequently postponed indefinitely.

Joining me now, Professor Richard Painter from the University of Minnesota. He is also formerly the White House chief ethics lawyer for two years under President George W. Bush.

Nice to have you on the program. I know you escaped freezing Minnesota for the sunshine of California. Glad you're with us.

[19:45:04] RICHARD PAINTER, CORPORATE LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Exactly.

HARLOW: Here is the thing. As you well know, the U.S. financial conflicts of interest statute prohibits people in the executive branch from holding assets that would clash with their official duties. However, for some sort of bizarre reason, the vice president and the president-elect are exempt from this. So there is nothing legally that is forcing his hand here, is there?

PAINTER: Well, every other president has divested of assets to prevent conflicts of interest. So he would be alone as recent presidents if he keeps assets of conflicts of interest. Also, there are (INAUDIBLE) constitution which may have this foreign government payments, and that is a very serious situation. The founders were worried about foreign governments trying to influence our government and elected officials. And guess what happened this year? And so, he is going to have to make sure no foreign government payments are coming into any companies that he owns or there could be a violation of an important provision of the constitution. HARLOW: So on that point, on the (INAUDIBLE) clause which are right,

says, you know, there can't be even a perceived impact of a foreign government on the financial interests of the sitting U.S. president, for example, any interests he might have in Russia, or we know he has buildings in Turkey, et cetera, et cetera.

My question is what it is that you believe the American people need to hear from him when he does hold that press conference? What does he need to say to convince you, a former ethics lawyer at the White House that, indeed, there is that necessary separation?

PAINTER: Well, that he is going to divest himself of his business interests entirely. That's what he needs to do to be an effective president, free of conflicts of interest. To comply with the constitution, he needs to divest himself of any businesses that receive any money from foreign governments. And I believe he should right now ensure the electors that are meeting tomorrow that he is not going to have any payments coming in from foreign governments as of January 20th. They need to be, in good conscious, vote for him as a president who is going to comply with the constitution. And he is not giving that assurance right now.

I'm very disappointed about that. But he also needs to make sure his kids, if they're going to be running businesses, that they aren't having anything to do with what's going on at the White House. So they have to figure out who on team Trump is going to be on the White House government side and who is going to be running businesses. Because we can't have the two getting mixed up or it is going to be a very, very difficult four years.

HARLOW: What about the fact we know that some of his children, including those who will run the businesses, his eldest sons, have been involved in the transition, have been meeting with some of the potential nominees, et cetera?

PAINTER: Yes, that's not encouraged. You have to pick who is going to be on which team here. And there are some problems that are there, a nepotism statute that need to be worked out if some of the Trumps want to work in the White House.

But if they are going to work in the White House, they are going to have to be subject to the same conflicts of interest statutes and disclosure rules as everybody else in the White House. Those rules are binding on all federal employees. What we can't have them half the time running businesses and the other half of the time running over the west wing and gathering confidential information and telling people what to do and so forth. They have to be on one team or the other, businesses or U.S. government. And they have to choose.

HARLOW: Richard Painter, nice to have you on the program. Thanks for joining us.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:51:45] HARLOW: A family in Oklahoma experienced a terrifying emergency on Halloween night. A wife and mother suffered a heart attack as her family rushed her to a faraway hospital. They were pulled over by a police officer who jumped into action to save her life.

Our Stephanie Elam has the story of this officer who went beyond the call of duty.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's just after midnight on Halloween. Blanchard Oklahoma police officer Jordan Jones is parked along a highway when a pickup truck speeds past him, hazard lights flashing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is having a heart attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can tell when he got into truck, he was frantic.

ELAM: Jeff Litty and his wife, Tina Costello, awoke, complaining of tightness in her chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, we need to go to the hospital now.

ELAM: But they live out in the country.

JEFF LITTY, HUSBAND: I had to make a decision, whether to wait for an ambulance to arrive from a long distance or get her on the road to help.

ELAM: Along with daughter Britney, they hit the road. Twenty miles from home, Tina's face turns purple.

LITTY: I was panicked. It is the middle of the night. The woman you love is completely unresponsive. And you are about halfway between home and the hospital.

ELAM: He is racing to where there is usually a police cruiser. Officer Jones is there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey Blanched. 48-year-old female not breathing, unconscious. Going to try to get her out of the truck and start CPR.

ELAM: Did you think it was too late at that point?

LITTY: Yes, I did. She's gone!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she's not.

LITTY: For two, tense minutes, Officer Jones performs CPR.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to give her two breaths, OK? LITTY: Baby, come on.

ELAM: Then a sign of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's breathing.

LITTY: Come on, baby.

ELAM: Tina is moved to an ambulance. Emotional, Jeff and Britney thank Officer Jones.

LITTY: Thank you.

He grabbed him, puts his big arm around you and says, it is going to be all right, buddy.

ELAM: What did you think when you watched the video?

TINA COSTELLO, HEART ATTACK SURVIVOR: I just cried, just cried. I just love Officer Jones. He is an angel. He is a true angel.

ELAM: Dr. Jeff Crook operated on Tina as soon as she got to the hospital. One of her arteries was 90 percent blocked.

Would she have lived had it not been for the intervention of Officer Jones?

DR. JEFF CROOK, INTERNATIONAL CARDIOLOGIST: I don't think she would have. Starting the CPR when he did greatly improved her chance of survival.

BRITNEY COSTELLO, DAUGHTER: He was a hero. He did everything he could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't just save Tina's life, he saved her family.

OFFICER JORDAN JONES, BLANCHARD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Every night, I go out to make a difference in somebody's life. And that was just a night I want.

ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Blanchard, Oklahoma.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Pretty incredible officer. Thank you, Steph, for that.

Coming up next, in our America, from humble beginnings, it has become a mission and holiday tradition. Ahead, the meaning behind some very special wreaths and why you can find them at memorials and cemeteries now in every state.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:58:01] HARLOW: At a time of so much division in the country, there are also moments of unity all around us. We want to make sure that you see those, as well, on this program.

So tonight in OUR AMERICA, a simple wreath laying with a very strong meaning for America's fallen service members.

Scores of volunteers arrived Friday at the Pentagon's 9/11 memorial to place wreaths in honor to have the 189 people who were killed there. This was in advance of national wreaths across America day, which was Saturday. When thousands of volunteers placed more than 1.2 million wreaths at places like Arlington national cemetery and the national war memorials. In all, some 1,200 cemeteries and memorials. Organizers say their mission is not about decorating graves but rather remembering the fallen, honoring those who served and teaching our children the price of freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN WORCESTER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WREATH ACROSS AMERICA: We have just come through a terribly divisive election. And you know, when we go down into tomorrow and when the wreath have placed all over the county, there will be people from the left, the right, and Christians and atheists. And you know what, for just a few hours, we will all be Americans, paying tribute to the people that served and sacrificed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: For just a few hours, we will all be Americans.

When placing a wreath, volunteers are encouraged to say the name of these veteran allowed so that they are never forgotten. Wreaths Across America started with one man, Warren Wooster (ph). In 1992, the wreath company he owned has a surplus. He got permission to put those wreaths in a section of Arlington national cemetery. And soon, others offered to help him make it happen. The mission grew each year until Wreaths Across America was formed in 2007.

Thank you so much for being with us this weekend.

Coming up tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN, a special airing of the "WONDER LIST.' Bill Weir heads to Amsterdam, a nation known for being quite liberal. But in this episode, Bill finds the so-called Dutch Donald Trump. Don't miss it. That is tonight 10:00 p.m. eastern.

I'm Poppy Harlow. Have a great week.