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General Motors Cutting 14,000 Jobs, Closing 5 Plants in North America; Uber CEO: "In 10 Years You won't Own a Car"; Trump Refuses to Condemn Russian Aggression against Ukraine. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 27, 2018 - 10:30   ET



CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: As Poppy said up in the intro, people are losing their jobs. In this community alone, 1,500 jobs directly impacted. The ripple effects of that could be thousands more jobs and economic losses to this community which is reeling from a third round. This would be the third round of layoffs for this community. And so far, the locals that we've spoken to are reserving judgement on whether or not Trump could have done something, whether he could have intervened or prevented it, whether his policies could have helped. They're not making that judgment right now. Most of the anger is actually directed at GM, a lot of talk of corporate greed and language like that from the locals that I'm hearing today. Not so much directed at the president, just yet. The day is early, though. And we're still talking to people throughout the day here, Jim.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And, look, Cristina, none of us can put ourselves in the shoes of those workers, right? We're not losing our jobs with weeks before Christmas, but the talk of corporate greed. Do they also see that GM here is looking at the future? And they're looking at the future of autonomous vehicles and they're looking at increased global competition and electric vehicles and saying we have to make some painful changes?

ALESCI: No, the community really doesn't want to hear that right now. Right now, they're focused on the fact that, OK, they hear GM's argument that the U.S. consumer doesn't want to buy small cars. But the counter-argument from this community is like, OK, put cars that sell in this plant, and we'll make them. We'll make them better than anyone else. We'll make them more efficiently than anyone else. And that's what they want to see from GM. And I think a lot of the political ramifications will rest on whether or not a deal can be struck between the company and the community here, Poppy. But it's going to take some time, for sure. And there's going to be a lot of pain.

HARLOW: Yes, understood. Thank you for being there. For talking to them and bringing their feelings to us, Cristina, appreciate it.

So, if you ask the president of General Motors there could be a lot of money to be made in ride-sharing services, driverless cars. GM's President Dan Ammann said just recently that they could make literally hundred of thousands of dollars per car if you focused on ride-sharing rather than just selling the cars themselves.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now, a CNN business senior technology correspondent, Laurie Segall. This is interesting because we also talk about how - OK, folks are buying smaller cars. They're buying bigger cars. That of course is changing. You see that with GM, Ford, making other decision. But this is a bigger, longer term change, we're talking about here.

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN SENIOR TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think it's a painful conversation they have. They're having a different conversation out in Silicon Valley. I just spoke to the Uber CEO. And he said that this idea of owning a car, they're hoping to replace that. And I think when we look at the future of self-driving cars, what's going to happen to drivers, there's a lot of fear there over those jobs and this all kind of came out when I asked him the question of what does this city look like in 10 years, take a listen.


DARA KHOSROWSHAHI, CEO, UBER: Hopefully, you won't own a car. You essentially come to us and we'll give you a choice of whether you want to take regular Uber, you want to pool with someone. But we're also going to show you this is a bus stop that's - and the buses going to be coming six minutes from now, you can take the bus today or you can take an electric bike or scooter today as well. We want to give you every single choice.

ALESCI: What do you say to the drivers who say I'm afraid that I'm going to become irrelevant?

KHOSROWSHAHI: I think first of all, I understand the fear. My experience every single time is that machines and humans are the things that are superior. Self-driving technology for a long time is not going to work in every single use case, you know if there's a -- airport drop-off and pickups, like good luck for a machine to figure out exactly how to get there. The promise of autonomous is that it's going to bring the cost per mile of transportation on Uber which right now is about double the cost of car ownership per mile, to essentially the cost of car ownership. When autonomous brings that cost down, we believe that we can replace car ownership itself. So, this is not a company whose goal is to double in size. This is a company who think we can grow, you know, 20 times bigger, 40 times bigger.


HARLOW: It's fascinating. That is Dara Khosrowshahi - I always get his last name wrong, who's trying to turn around Uber, in terms of reputational. Do they - I mean they're going to need car companies to build the cars so that they have a business, or do they want to build the cars?

SEGALL: You know I think it's actually really interesting because Dara came in right after Travis Kalanick who is their older CEO. They kond of - they had this win it all cost reputation. It's us versus the world. They've had to change that. And under Dara, they've actually partnered with Honda. Honda invested $500 million into building a self-driving technology with Uber. So it's this idea of maybe working with against. That being said, this company is not going anywhere. It's growing exponentially. It will fundamentally change the way transportation works. And the other thing is they don't just believe that it will be about cars.

[10:35:01] They've invested $330 million in electric scooter company. They believe that - you know he talks about you'll be taking helicopters. I mean he has a very different view of what transportation looks like in 10 years and it doesn't revolve right around cars.

HARLOW: Well, Jim takes a helicopter to work every day. And I just scoot up here.


SEGALL: Let me know when we can do that.

HARLOW: It's fascinating. Where can people see more of the interview?

SEGALL: "CNN Money" we have a whole landing page for "Human Code."

HARLOW: OK. Laurie, thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: President Trump refuses to condemn Russia after an attack of three Ukrainian ships, detained 24 Ukrainian sailors. Will Russia see his lack of response as a free pass for future aggression? We're going to discuss with the Secretary General of NATO. That's next.


[10:40:18] HARLOW: Welcome back. So President Trump waited more than a day to offer a muted response, muted at best response to the Russian firing on and seizing of three Ukrainian ships and 24 Ukrainian sailors. The president again showing his reluctance from all the Russia responsible as other world leaders condemn Russia's behavior. Meanwhile, Ukraine claims that there were counterintelligence officers on those ships with one officer seriously injured. Take a look at this picture because it's quite telling. It's an image of one of the holes, the damage blown right in that Ukrainian artillery boat after the attack. The giant hole from what Ukrainian authority say was indeed Russian artillery.

SCIUTTO: This, as Ukrainian lawmakers have voted and introduced Martial Law in some areas bordering Russia or bordering where Russian troops are now stationed. To be clear, Martial Law and Ukraine deals with stepping up military activities and preparations, does not restrict basic civil liberties of its citizens.

I spoke to the NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg about what NATO is willing to do to prevent further escalation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Now, I know that you personally, as well has called for Russia to release the personnel, to release the ships. But what is NATO prepared to do? What immediate measures is NATO prepared to take to back up that demand?

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We will provide both strong political but also strong practical support to Ukraine. Help to mobilize the armed forces, command the control cyber, but also help them with the strength being the naval capacities. I also know that many NATO allies provide direct bilateral support. So NATO and NATO allies provide strong support and will continue to do so to Ukraine. Look into what more we can do, and next week, we will meet with the Ukrainian foreign minister, he will comment to NATO and we will discuss many issues including the security situation in the Black Sea region and NATO has increased our presence in the Black Sea region.

SCIUTTO: Four years after the annexation of Crimea, the start of military activity in Eastern Ukraine, that combination of economic sanctions and military support has not changed Russian behavior. It still occupies Crimea. It still occupies Eastern Ukraine. And now, it has this latest military aggression. Is that evidence that the west's policy in response to Russia is not working?

STOLTENBERG: I think it shows how serious and difficult this situation is because we provide strong support to Ukraine. We have adapted our military posture in the Black Sea region with more air policing and more naval presence and more troops on the ground. At the same time, we all want to avoid a full military confrontation. And, therefore, we continue to work for a political negotiated solution. That's never easy. And sometimes, it takes time. But the alternative, full military conflict is something we absolutely must avoid. That's also the reason why NATO continues to calls on or asks for calm restraint and to continue to work for a political solution. And that's something that we'll then address in our political dialogue with Russia. We have something called the NATO Russia Council and the situation in and around Ukraine including the Azov Sea has been the main talk picking this political dialogue with Russia for a long time.

SCIUTTO: This latest encounter is an escalation. Shots fired at seas. Sailors now seized by Russia. Now, you have Ukraine, the president discussing the imposition of Martial Law. How concerned are you that this current level of tensions escalates into something more out of control?

STOLTENBERG: This important not to show restraint and help to de- escalate the situation. And the best way to do that is for Russia to release the sailors, the navy personnel they have captured. Some of them actually wounded according to reports. So, that's the most immediate thing that's just happened. And the release of these arrested sailors. Then there is something called a Minsk Agreement which is a framework for how we can have a political solution. We need to continue to push for the full implementation of the Minsk Agreements. At the same time combined with the strong support to Ukraine, including helping them to strengthen their armed forces.

[10:45:00] They are on the front line meeting the Russia supported separate East in Ukraine. And we need to help them to confront and to stand the pressure from the insurgents in Eastern Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Forgive my skepticism, if I can, but just for our broader audience here, will Russia's occupation of Crimea ever end?

STOLTENBERG: We will never accept it. I cannot tell you when that will end. But, you know, I remember when the Soviet Union illegally annexed and occupied the Baltic States. That was actually 40 years, even more. But at the end, the Baltic States became independent and sovereign states. We never recognized what the Soviet Union did to the Baltic States. But, of course, we were also able to act in a way that prevented a full-scale war. Crimea, it's very different from the Baltic State. But the dilemma is the same that we don't accept illegal aggressive actions of a big power. At the same time, we need to act in a way which prevent a difficult and a painful situation to develop into something which come to even more dangerous and escalate to a full military conflict.


SCIUTTO: See the focus there is a delicate balancing act. Yes, they want to challenge Russia, not accept these. But there's a limit as to how far they want it to go. They don't want it to develop into a broader war.

HARLOW: Right. That was fascinating. He rarely talks. It's an exclusive interview with him. And that key question of so you know, what happens if Russia just stay there, and what happens to these sailors?

SCIUTTO: Yes. And well one of them is now charged with a crime for apparently driving a Ukrainian boat to a Ukrainian port -

HARLOW: In Ukrainian water -

SCIUTTO: -- in international waters.

HARLOW: All right. Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, there has been a startling rise in anti-Semitic acts across the country. What's behind it? We're going to take an alarming closer look. That's next.


[10:51:22] SCIUTTO: New this morning, house Democrats will soon control - will soon control the Judiciary Committee are asking for answers from the Trump administration about the rise of white nationalism here in the U.S.

HARLOW: Incoming Chairman Jerry Nadler sent a letter to the Trump administration which also asks about what he calls the administration's unfair targeting of Muslim-Americans and specific racial groups.

Let's go to our colleague Lauren Fox. She's with us now. So look, Jerry Nadler is going to have a lot of power come January in this new position. Tell us more about this request he has of the Trump administration.

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Sure, Poppy. And this is a kind of a road map of what Democrats hope to see from the Trump administration when they take power in January. And Jerry Nadler is asking some simple questions here. Many of which he has also asked in past letters over the last two years. He wants to know what the Trump administration is doing to combat white nationalism.

In the letter he wrote, "Members of the House Judiciary Committee have written repeatedly to the Trump administration and Chairman Goodlatte on matters related to domestic terrorism, countering violence extremism, domestic surveillance, and the unfair profiling of racial, religious and ethnic minority groups. To date, we have received little or no substantive response to any of these communications."

And Poppy this is what being in the majority is about. It's about being able to demand answers to your questions. It's about getting to hold hearings on issues you care about like the rise in hate crimes in the United States. And according to the latest FBI statistics, those have increased 17 percent over a last year. So Poppy Jerry Nadler wants answers. He wants to hold hearings and you could expect that white nationalism is going to be a topic of concern for his committee when he takes power in January.

HARLOW: And that subpoena power as well, right?

FOX: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Lauren thanks, important reporting. So also this week, CNN is taking a closer look at the state of hate. Specifically, what is fueling the alarming rise of hate crimes against Jewish people and other minorities in this country and around the world?

SCIUTTO: It's in the numbers. It's in the facts. In our first installment, CNN's Sara Sidner spoke with people who've endured vicious anti-Semitic attacks including a survivor of the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre.


RABBI JEFFREY MYERS, TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE: I'm not just concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism. I'm concerned about the rise of hate in our country.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A quiet Saturday morning of prayer and reflection at Rabbi Jeffrey Myers' synagogue in Pittsburgh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contact! Shots fired, shots fired!

SIDNER: Savagely interrupted by gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got an automatic weapon. He's firing right in front of the synagogue.

SIDNER: Anti-Semitism had blasted its way back into America's consciousness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have at least four down in the atrium, DOA at this time.

SIDNER: Barry Werber was praying inside the Tree of Life Synagogue when bullets started flying. He hid in a closet as a gunman mowed down 11 of his fellow worshippers.

SIDNER(on camera): What is it like being a survivor?

BARRY WEBER, SURVIVED SYNAGOGUE MASSACRE: Sometimes I just feel dead inside. No feeling at all. And I hate that feeling. But it's there.

SIDNER: How many of your friends have you had to bury?

WERBER: Too many to count.

SIDNER (voice-over): It was the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in American history, the personification of a rising state of hate in this country. The Anti-Defamation League says anti-Semitism in America was already exploding, from neo-Nazi marches to more subtle propaganda. In 2017, the ADL logged nearly 2,000 anti-Semitic incidents, a 57 percent spike in just one year.

[10:55:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the signal largest surge we've ever seen since we've started tracking this data.

SIDNER: The FBI, which only counts hate crimes reported by police, saw an astonishing 37 percent rise in anti-Semitic crimes. The police in Pittsburgh say the gunman's anti-Semitic fervor was spelled out on social media, one site in particular that attracts racists and neo- Nazis because of its loose policies on free speech. Experts say those sites had become echo chambers that are getting louder and helping motivate real-life attacks.


SIDNER: The anger and misguided ideology of neo-Nazis which has been permeating the dark corners of the Internet now materializing on street corners and being scrawled across the American landscape, Swastikas on a temple in Indiana, on a school in Colorado, on a school bus in Florida, on political signs in California, and on street signs in Nevada, words of hate on a temple in California.

SIDNER(on camera): What was spelled out here?

RABBI YISROEL CINER, BETH JACOB CONGREGATION OF IRVINE: Expletive, "FU," Jews, expletive again in red spray paint.

SIDNER (voice-over): And anti-Semitism expressed through bullet holes shot through a temple in Indiana. Cars were set ablaze at a Jewish Cultural Center in Tennessee. And across the country, posters are popping up on college campuses meant to instill Nazi ideals in young minds. Even the dead are targets. At 92 years old, Millard Braunstein knows the pain of loss.


SIDNER: But he's never personally experienced anti-Semitism until this year, when 175 tombstones at a Jewish cemetery in Philadelphia were desecrated.

BRAUNSTEIN: My mother's stone was knocked over and it was really very upsetting. I said how could this happen in America today?

SIDNER: For the victims of anti-Semitism, the question is, why has it returned with such a vengeance?

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Anti-Semitism is nothing new. What is new is, number one, the public conversation, the charged atmosphere, the incredibly polarized phenomenon in our society today.

SIDNER: Experts say Charlottesville, Virginia, last year was a turning point. The moment the growing rise in racism and anti- Semitism went public. Hundreds of white nationalists, neo-Nazi, and Klansmen took to the streets, protesting the decision to remove a confederate statue. It was one of several protests last year, but this was different. It began with a torch-lit march on Friday night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES (chanting): Jews will not replace us.

SIDNER: That turned into a violent confrontation the next morning between white nationalists and counter-protesters. In the end, police say a man with neo-Nazi ideals killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer. Those who monitor neo-Nazis say the aftermath may have encouraged the movement.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But you also had people that were very fine people -- on both sides.

SIDNER: Especially because the President's lack of a complete condemnation of what happened was cheered by white nationalists.

BRAUNSTEIN: Show me a good neo-Nazi and show me a good Ku Klux Klan man. I mean, it just isn't there.

WERBER: Instead of saying, well, there's wrong on both sides, how were we wrong? What were we doing wrong? Except praying, that can't be wrong.

SIDNER: Barry Werber likens that kind of thinking to Hitlerism. He's well aware of the torture that regime meted out on a family member.

WEBER: He was used by the German scientists for experiments. They had literally cut the muscles out of his arms to see if they would regrow. And he had to live with that. Thank God I never had to go through that.

SIDNER: Jews have a saying about the Holocaust. Never again. After what he's been through, Werber is terrified it really could happen again. Now, the Jewish community, like every community, it has a diversity of opinion and there are plenty of Jews, including one of the rabbis we spoke to here in California who support Donald Trump. And they don't blame him at all for the rise in anti-Semitism. Actually, they feel he supports Jewish people, because he is a big supporter of Israel. But one thing that everyone we spoke with said needs to change, and that is, the heightened political rhetoric that is dividing this country.


HARLOW: Such important reporting. Sara Sidner, thank you for that. Thanks to all of you for being with us today. Jim and I will see you back here tomorrow morning. "At This Hour" with Kate Bolduan starts now.