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Tropical Storm Humberto Threatens Bahamas; Cleanups and High- Fives after Sparring in Texas Debate; Felicity Huffman Sentenced to 14 Days; NASCAR Rejecting Some Ads from Firearms Companies; Robert Mugabe's Memorial Service; U.S. to Open Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to Development. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired September 14, 2019 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Bracing for a new tropical storm in the Atlantic. It has the Bahamas waiting to see where it goes after Hurricane Dorian did so much damage there.

Plus, a Democrat running for president says the U.S. government should confiscate assault-style rifles. Some other Democrats are now concerned those remarks from Beto O'Rourke could be a huge gift to Republicans come 2020.

Also ahead this hour, actress Felicity Huffman is sentenced to jail for her role in the college admissions cheating scandal.

Live from CNN World Headquarters at the mother ship here in Atlanta. We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm George Howell. CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

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HOWELL: At 4:00 am on the U.S. East Coast, in the Atlantic right now, a new tropical storm has formed near the Bahamas and, again, it's threatening the same islands that were hit so hard by Hurricane Dorian.

Take a look at the satellite imagery. It shows the storm called Humberto slowly move towards the region, bringing more rain, more wind. In the meantime, relief teams plan to bring help to those who are riding the storm out. They've handed out supplies and placed tarps over homes.

For a region that's been through so much, people are cautiously keeping a close eye on this storm. So many on the island still recovering from that deadly hurricane that was Dorian. We'll have more on that in just a moment.

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HOWELL: As we mentioned the search effort, the recovery effort is under way in the Bahamas but another storm would stall that operation and cause even more problems as our Dianne Gallagher explains.

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DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Another storm hitting the exact same islands that Hurricane Dorian completely decimated kind of hits the Bahamians in two ways.

There is obviously a physical way, the fact that there is going to be rain and wind.

[04:05:00]

And the homes or what is left of the homes on Abaco or in Marsh Harbour can't withstand much more.

Now there are NGOs, USAID and volunteers, who are out there. They are staying through the weather and they say that they have brought in additional supplies, because this is going to put a pause on relief efforts to those areas that were hardest hit two weeks ago because they simply can't fly to those islands to bring in supplies.

They have search and rescue teams on standby who will be spending the night through the weather just in case there is flash flooding or people need to be rescued.

And they've been going around giving hard, thick plastic tarps to the people who are trying to stay in what is left of their homes so they can best prepare for some more weather coming their way.

The Bahamian government would like for everyone to evacuate to shelters. Here in the Nassau area, there are 2,000 people who have come from those areas that were hardest hit by Dorian, who are staying in shelters right now.

And that is when you get to the other effect, the emotional, the mental anguish, of yet another storm, more howling wind and heavy rain coming to the same areas you just fled from.

Hearing those sounds, knowing what is on the horizon, adding to the trauma that all of these people have already experienced. There are some 1,300 people on that official list of the missing and so much more to do to even begin to talk about recovery here in the Bahamas.

First, they have to get through another bout of weather -- Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Nassau, the Bahamas.

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HOWELL: If you'd like to find ways to help, you can visit cnn.com/impact. We've vetted several organizations. You can find different ways to contribute.

The 2020 election just around the corner, just over a year away. Democrats running for president are back on the campaign trail. After Thursday night's debate in the state of Texas, now comes the second- guessing, the cleanups and even a few high-fives. Our Jeff Zeleny has this.

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JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Biden brushing aside another round of attacks on the Democratic debate stage, this time from Julian Castro, Housing Secretary under President Obama.

JULIAN CASTRO (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you forgetting what you said two minutes ago?

ZELENY (voice-over): Biden's campaign is calling that moment a cheap shot and a low blow in an e-mail to supporters.

JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he just got his facts wrong.

ZELENY (voice-over): But the former vice president is not dwelling on the exchange, saying his age is fair game.

BIDEN: Last night was the closest it came to a debate, OK?

We actually had an open debate on health care.

ZELENY (voice-over): Castro defending his words but not repeating them, after being widely panned for a thinly veiled swipe at Biden's memory.

CASTRO: I wouldn't do it differently. That was not a personal attack.

ZELENY (voice-over): After the debate, Senator Cory Booker also raising questions about Biden's fitness for office.

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because there's a lot of people who are concerned about Joe Biden's ability to carry the ball all the way across the end line without fumbling.

ZELENY (voice-over): But later reversing course.

BOOKER: Forgive me if my football metaphor about fumbling the ball is being taken out of context. But the reality is, is, I want to get into the end zone. I think we need to win.

ZELENY (voice-over): The Democratic debate in Houston last night proved at least one thing: the 2020 primary fight is likely to go the distance, driven by deep divisions about how far left the party is willing to go.

Front and center is health care and whether to expand on ObamaCare, as Biden is proposing.

BIDEN: I know that the senator says she's for Bernie. Well, I'm for Barack. I think the ObamaCare worked.

ZELENY: Or to follow the leads of Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren by dramatically overhauling the health care system with a Medicare for all plan.

While Sanders says taxes on the middle class would increase but be offset by lower overall health care costs, Warren declined to answer that politically sensitive question.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The richest individuals and the biggest corporations are going to pay more and middle class families are going to pay less. That's how this is going to work.

ZELENY (voice-over): Senator Amy Klobuchar sounding the alarm about the wisdom of abolishing private health insurance.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And while Bernie wrote the bill, I read the bill. It says that we will no longer have private insurance as we know it. And that means that 149 million Americans will no longer be able to have their current insurance.

ZELENY (voice-over): On guns, former congressman Beto O'Rourke finding his voice, calling for a mandatory buyback of assault weapons in the wake of a mass shooting in his hometown of El Paso.

BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow them to be used against our fellow Americans anymore.

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ZELENY (voice-over): For a party unified in its mission to defeat President Trump, there's little consensus among Democrats for what type of candidate stands the best chance of doing so.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Trump, you spent the last 2.5 years full time trying to sow hate and division among us. And that is why we've gotten nothing done.

ZELENY: But it was that intense exchange over health care that really is driving this Democratic debate. Now of course, nothing was settled on that but it is the outline of the fight to come.

As for that exchange between Biden and Castro, Joe Biden did not mention that at all during a fund-raiser on Friday in Houston. But he also told supporters and donors, "I think I did well. But I have to do better next time."

The next debate is next month in Ohio -- Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.

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HOWELL: And a programming note: on that next debate, October 15th in Ohio. CNN and "The New York Times" will co-host this event. CNN anchors Anderson Cooper, Erin Burnett as well as "The New York Times" national editor Marc Lacey will serve as moderators again on October 15th.

Let's put all of this into focus now with Leslie Vinjamuri, Leslie is head of the U.S. and Americas Programme at Chatham House in London.

Good to have you with us.

LESLIE VINJAMURI, CHATHAM HOUSE: Thank you, George.

HOWELL: So this Left-Right binary, there are two issues that you'll hear on the conservative talk shows that are the Right's bogeyman. First, the suggestion that the Democratic Party is shifting further and further to the Left with no room for moderates and that Democrats will take America's guns.

So that frank and candid comment from Beto O'Rourke checked off both those boxes for the Right and now it has some lawmakers concerned that the conversation, the debate on gun control, will be a lot harder to have. Listen.

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SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): And I frankly think that clip will be played for years at Second Amendment rallies with organizations that try to scare people, that say Democrats are coming for your guns.

I'm a gun owner. My sons and I have gone skeet shooting and hunting and, frankly, I don't think having our presidential candidates like Congressman O'Rourke did, say that we're going to try and take people's guns against their will is a wise either policy or political move.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he hurt the party?

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HOWELL: So, Leslie, in this strange world where there is no middle, there is no nuance, only over here, over there, this comment from Beto O'Rourke, what does that do for the conversation on gun control?

VINJAMURI: Undoubtedly, there will be certain parts of America, parts of the Republican Party, that try to spin it and to argue, as they have, that this is something that all candidates want to do and that they don't respect the Constitution.

But remember that the majority of Americans would like to see more gun control, more control on assault weapons. The Democratic candidates are more or less aligned on this.

The question of buybacks, if we listen to Joe Biden and others, voluntary buybacks are something that they support. Mandatory buybacks are not. And I think very quickly the American people will see this difference. But the problem of spin is very significant.

Those who already reject the idea of any ban on assault weapons, on any kind of buyback, it will reinforce their views of the Democratic Party. But I think the mainstream of America is united on the interest in

having more gun controls and there have been some really very tragic events. So I don't think this is something that will be taken out of context.

I think the remarks are very much in the context of somebody who has seen devastating violence in recent weeks in his home state.

HOWELL: Yes. It does seem that polling does suggest, in fact, that Americans do want this conversation to be had and want lawmakers to do something about the issue.

I also want to shift now to that flap over Castro's comments over Biden. Biden's campaign calling it a cheap shot. Castro denying that was his intention. But it's interesting to see Mr. Biden seeming to embrace the issue, saying age can be on the table as a point of consideration. Keeping in mind, Mr. Trump is also in his 70s.

VINJAMURI: Clearly, there are many candidates that are 70 and above in this race. Age is always a consideration that the American public will think it through when they go to the polls. They will look at the things that the candidates say and they will assess their mental acumen, their physical abilities.

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VINJAMURI: I think the attack did not play well. If there's anything the American public would like to see, the majority of the American public would like to see a civilized debate, where there's respect among the candidates.

And I think that this particular attack crossed a line people are not comfortable with. Joe Biden has handled it well. But what we want to see in a next leader, what generation, what demographic, what policies, those are the questions people are going to be asking and taking very seriously as we go forward.

HOWELL: We even heard Cory Booker sort of walking back -- maybe not walking back but clarifying his comments on that issue regarding Joe Biden.

Finally, I'd like to get your thoughts on the op-ed written by three people who want to challenge President Trump for the Republican nomination. But in four states, four different states, Arizona, Kansas, Nevada and South Carolina, they've all canceled their nominating contests.

It is worth noting that no candidate at this point has the level of support that Mr. Trump has among Republicans.

But what do you make of the argument that essentially the voices of these three are being blocked out unfairly?

VINJAMURI: To be fair, this is not without precedent, either in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. There have been primaries that have been canceled due to the overwhelming support for the current president and the costs attached to holding those.

But I think the key issue in the current context is that there is a tremendous division in America. There's a concern for the Republican Party. There is a concern for the legitimacy of the democratic process on any number of dimensions.

So I think the op-ed is clearly calling out what's been seen as the inability within the Republican Party to have a credible, serious and sustained debate about which direction America is heading.

So in the current political context, notwithstanding the fact that there is a precedent for this, I think it's much more damaging not to go ahead and air the views that exist, especially those that differ from the sitting president.

HOWELL: Leslie Vinjamuri, we appreciate it as always. Thank you.

VINJAMURI: Thank you.

HOWELL: Actress Felicity Huffman says that she was terrified she wouldn't be a good mother. Now she knows that her sentence for her role in the college admissions cheating scandal will come into play here. We'll have that story for you ahead.

Also, CNN is live in Jerusalem, where Israeli voters are preparing for a general election just months after the last general election. We'll explain what that is all about as NEWSROOM continues worldwide.

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HOWELL: An Oscar nominated actress is the first parent to be sentenced for her part in the U.S. college admission cheating scandal. Felicity Huffman reports to jail October 25th to serve a 14-day sentence.

She apologized on Friday. She had pleaded guilty to paying to have her daughter's score on an entrance test rigged. Our Miguel Marquez has this report.

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MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Felicity Huffman hand-in-hand with her husband, actor William H. Macy, entering a federal courthouse in Boston to learn her fate.

Huffman addressing the court through tears. She apologized to the judge, her daughters and husband, saying she's ashamed of her behavior, recounting how one of her daughters told her, "I don't know who you are anymore, Mom."

She also said as she was driving her daughter to the testing center, she thought to herself, "Turn around, just turn around."

"And to my eternal shame," she says, "I didn't."

Huffman concluded by saying she takes full responsibility. Prosecutors wanted her to spend a month in prison. Her lawyers wanted probation for a year. In sentencing Huffman to 14 days in prison and a $30,000 fine, the judge saying despite Huffman taking responsibility, the outrage isn't the harm to the colleges.

The outrage is a system that is already so distorted by money and privilege in the first place.

In May, the "Desperate Housewives" star pleaded guilty to one count of fraud for paying $15,000 to Rick Singer, who got her daughter extra time on a college entrance exam and bribed the administrator at the location where she took it.

In a three-page letter to the judge explaining herself, Huffman wrote, "In my desperation to be a good mother I talked myself into believing that all I was doing was giving my daughter a fair shot.

"I see the irony in that statement now because what I've done is the opposite of fair."

Huffman is the first parent sentenced in the sprawling federal investigation into college admissions cheating dubbed Operation Varsity Blues. Dozens of wealthy prominent and connected parents, coaches and administrators have been charged in the scam, masterminded by Rick Singer.

His front charity, Key Worldwide Foundation, purported to help disadvantaged kids in the U.S. and abroad. Singer, who is cooperating with investigators, has since confessed to taking tens of million dollars for helping kids of wealthy parents cheat on college entrance exams and bribing coaches to falsely designate students as athletes, paving the way for their admissions.

Also, caught up in the scandal, "Full House" actress Lori Loughlin, whose two daughters were admitted to the University of Southern California as competitive rowers, even though they never participated in the sport.

Prosecutors say she and her husband, fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli, paid Singer a half million dollars and even sent photos of both their daughters on rowing machines to bolster their false claims.

Loughlin and Giannulli have both pleaded not guilty to fraud and money laundering.

[04:25:00]

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The charges carry a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. MARQUEZ: Now Huffman has been ordered to report to prison on October 25th. It is not yet clear where she will do that that time.

The judge, at the end of the sentencing, said she thought it was the right sentence, saying, "You can rebuild your life from here on out. You've paid your dues" -- Miguel Marquez, CNN, New York.

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HOWELL: In Israel, voters are preparing for a general election. Five opinion polls there show the same thing: Tuesday's election is just too close to call. The prime minister of the nation Benjamin Netanyahu is in a dead heat with Benny Gantz, the former chief of the Israeli military.

This election was called when Mr. Netanyahu could not form a coalition after a vote in April. For more on what is expected to be a very tight race, let's bring in Sam Kiley.

Sam, as things get down to the wire, the stakes are extremely high for Netanyahu in many different ways.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a fight for his political survival but not a fight that's unfamiliar to Benjamin Netanyahu. He's been in power as the Israeli prime minister effectively for a decade or more.

Multiple elections; the last one back in April produced an inconclusive result and he proved unable to stitch together a coalition. If we look at the polls at the moment, more or less 32 each for the Likud, Netanyahu's party, and the Blue and White Party of Gantz and Yair Lapid also on 32.

So that gives casting votes to other parties, other smaller parties. The real kingmaker in all of this is the former Likud member, Avigdor Lieberman, who is likely to get around 10 votes for his party.

But he will not vote, he says, to support a Netanyahu-led coalition. So there will be horse trading there.

And at the same time there has been a lot of outrage in the Arabic speaking community inside Israel, about a fifth of the population, George, following what were frankly racist tweets on the Netanyahu Facebook page that actually forced a closure of his messaging system by Facebook for 24 hours.

That may well have galvanized some Arabic speaking voters and Palestinian Israelis or Israeli Arabs to get stuck in and get out into the polls. Again, about 10 seats, 11 seats, perhaps, for them.

So it's going to be a pretty agonizing process after the election when the coalition negotiations start and no guarantee at all that he'll be able to put together a ruling coalition nor, I may say, is there any really clear side that Mr. Gantz and his center left coalition could stitch together that critical 61 seats they need to have a one-person majority in the Israeli message -- George. HOWELL: It is interesting to see this prime minister, facing investigations, certainly looking to see how this plays out in this election. Sam Kiley live for us. Thank you for the recording. We'll keep in touch with you.

Still ahead, we talked earlier about the impact Beto O'Rourke's comments at the Democratic debate could have on efforts to inability gun control in the U.S.

Still ahead, NASCAR is shifting gears on that issue, taking a position you might not expect. Details ahead for you.

Plus deportation fears are a growing concern for some children in the United States. Why a new policy could force the seriously ill to leave the nation. Stand by.

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HOWELL: Welcome back to viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm George Howell with the headlines we're following for you this hour.

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HOWELL: A surprising turn in the battle over guns. The Stock Car Racing Association NASCAR is rejecting some ads from gunmakers. It's yet another example of the corporate world leading the way on this issue when lawmakers won't. Sara Murray has this.

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SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: NASCAR is shocking some gun companies as it appears to reject some ads that were supposed to advertise certain firearms.

Now this is a kerfuffle that started happening when a few gun companies were approached by an advertising vendor that said NASCAR would like some ads from you. Why don't you submit them?

A couple months later, they heard from this advertising vendor that said NASCAR is having a gradual shift on its gun approach. They don't want ads depicting assault-style rifles, things like AK-47s, AR-15s but they're happy to take ads for less controversial accessories and maybe concealed carry classes.

This set the gun companies up in arms. They were livid. They said NASCAR is alienating their fan base. They pointed to the overlap between NASCAR fans as well as gun owners.

And we've seen this trend of companies re-evaluating their stance on whether they are willing to advertise guns, whether they want to sell guns, how they want to partner with organizations like the NRA.

But things are still a little murky when it comes to NASCAR in part because they won't publicly clarify their position. The gun companies pressed for more information about the gradual shift, I have reached out to NASCAR multiple times to say, what does this mean about your approach to Second Amendment issues, to your willingness to partner with firearms companies.

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MURRAY: So far NASCAR hasn't responded. It is worth pointing out that the NRA has taken notice of this story. They put up a blogpost online making it clear that they are none too pleased about what they see as a not-so-gradual shift -- Sara Murray, CNN, Washington.

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HOWELL: Sara, thank you.

There is another debate raging in the United States over the issue of vaping. And it seems the U.S. president is changing his tune on the use of the electronic cigarettes.

On Wednesday, Mr. Trump supported an effort to ban flavored vapes. But on Friday, he tweeted this.

"While I like the vaping alternative to cigarettes, we need to make sure this alternative is safe for all."

Six deaths and more than 300 cases of lung disease have been associated with vaping recently but it's not clear exactly what's causing it.

Some immigrant families here in the United States say the government is handing out death sentences by kicking their desperately sick kids out of the country. There's been a dramatic change to a program that once allowed about 1,000 undocumented individuals a year to stay for medical treatment.

Tom Foreman reports on what this policy change means for these sick kids.

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JONATHAN SANCHEZ, PATIENT WHO COULD BE DEPORTED: I don't want to die. I don't want to die.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One after another, they are pleading with Congress, immigrants in the United States for medical care who now fear being forced to go home.

MARIA ISABEL BUESO, PATIENT WHO COULD BE DEPORTED: This is not a partisan issue. This is a humanitarian issue. And our life depends on it.

FOREMAN: The issue is a change to a program that has allowed some undocumented migrant families to stay in the U.S. for treatment of serious medical issues. Applications, about a thousand a year, were previously handle by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

But now, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, is in charge and civil rights advocates is a many migrants have been told they must depart or be deported.

Jonathan Sanchez is just 16 and was suffocating from cystic fibrosis. He believes if he leaves his doctors in Boston and goes back to Honduras...

SANCHEZ: It will be a legal homicide because in our country it doesn't exist any type of treatment.

FIONA DANAHER, CO-CHAIR, MGH IMMIGRANT HEALTH COALITION: To inform families via a letter that they -- their status in this country is at risk is not only cruel but it is harmful to these children's health.

FOREMAN: Immigration advocates immediately sued, but even that legal challenge is being complicated by the mystery of it all.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): I'm baffled. I've never seen a situation like this before.

FOREMAN: At a hearing, Congressional Democrats asked who ordered this change, when, why and will anyone get medical deferrals now?

DANIEL RENAUD, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, FIELD OPERATIONS DIRECTORATE, USOS: We're not able to respond to that today.

FOREMAN: And you heard right.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Who advised you to do this?

FOREMAN: Immigration officials repeatedly said, because of the lawsuit, they would not answer except maybe in writing, maybe in the future.

REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): Was this a policy change that was a result of a request from any high-ranking political appointee at the White House?

RENAUD: At the advice of counsel, I'm not able to discuss the reasons for any change.

FOREMAN: So all Serena Badia from Spain knows is this. She is 14, has a rare heart defect that has already put her through five surgeries and her future remains wildly uncertain.

SERENA BADIA, PATIENT WHO COULD BE DEPORTED: I don't think I had to come to D.C. to fight for my life. I only thought I had to go to the hospital for that.

FOREMAN: We reached out to the head of Citizenship and Immigration Services, who once again told us they had that time until this lawsuit was settled. But a very limited version of this diversion program that might still go forward is still under review.

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In the capital of Zimbabwe, a memorial service for Robert Mugabe. The former leader of that nation. It is under way. But Sunday's funeral has been delayed for several weeks. We have a live report explaining why.

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HOWELL: Protesters and police are on the streets of Hong Kong. The 15th straight weekend we've seen these type of demonstrations. There were some scuffles earlier between supporters of Mainland China and pro democracy protesters. Hong Kong denied requests for permits to hold weekend demonstrations.

Robert Mugabe, who had a great deal of influence over the African continent for decades, is being remembered right now at a memorial service in Zimbabwe's capital. Loved by many, also hated by many. He has drawn quite a crowd there.

This picture here in Harare. Dignitaries from across Africa and around the world are there to pay tribute to the man regarded as the founder of Zimbabwe. But the funeral, planned for Sunday, has been postponed. Let's go live there with Farai Sevenzo, a native of Zimbabwe.

Tell us more about these final plans for, again, a very complex figure.

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, George. A very complex figure, as you say. Yes, he is the founding father of Zimbabwe. Zimbabweans are grappling with how they can remember him.

Do they remember him for the fantastic education he gave them?

Or do they remember him for his oppression?

For giving them land when none of them could afford it?

At the same time do they remember him for taking away land from other people forcibly, violently? Do they remember him for the violent elections?

But at the same time, you must remember Robert Mugabe was a massive figure on the African continent. In African history, he stood on the front line against apartheid in South Africa, in southwest Africa. He's a huge figure on this continent.

I'm looking at the memorial program right now. We've got family representatives, the leader of Equatorial Guinea, the Kenyan president, Uhuru Kenyatta, is down there at the moment. Of Ghana, former president J.J. Rawlings is down there.

Tanzania has a representative and Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa is down there. A representative of Cuba, China and Russia. So at the moment, it's been a week since the man died, George, and at the moment, everyone is trying to pay tribute to his contribution rather than his complex legacy to the African continent.

And at the moment, we know for certain that there have been many, many sort of arguments of where he should be buried.

[04:45:00]

SEVENZO: Back in November of 2017, I covered that incident of that apparent coup for CNN, that he was kicked out, very unceremoniously.

And at the moment, the family members were thinking, no, he should be buried in his village with his people. But of course, the government wants him to be buried at the shrine which houses all the leaders of the revolution to free Zimbabwe from way back from the 1979 onwards, including army generals and ministers and everybody.

But he feels really that, as he said back in 2018, that why should he vote for people who tormented him?

And it seems the family were thinking why should his remains be determined by the people who tormented him?

But we gather now that everything has been appeased and that he will be buried at a date yet to be determined, George.

HOWELL: And, again, we're looking at these live images right now there in Harare, 10:46 there in the morning. We're seeing dignitaries, many people there of government walking there in the stadium.

Tell us, generally speaking in Zimbabwe, the legacy of this man is incredibly complicated.

Do you get a sense that history will make a determination on him now or as years pass, will there be a better understanding of who he was for not only Zimbabwe but for the African continent?

SEVENZO: I absolutely agree with you, George. I think, 30 years from now, history will judge him in a kinder manner. Remember what southern Africa was like when he took over. We had apartheid in South Africa. We had apartheid in southwest Africa, which is now Namibia.

He was at the front line of trying to keep the ideal of black African independence alive. And then, of course, you must also remember the violent manner in which he ruled his country. I mean, I don't say that lightly.

I was a reporter in and out of that country for many years. And every election was violent. 2008 was the worst. I met young people who were MDC activists, the Movement for Democratic Change, who were jailed, killed, disappeared and, indeed, that legacy of violence has carried on.

But 30 years from now, George, I do believe that the whole idea of trying to get people's land back will appease Robert Mugabe's legacy. Because South Africa is going to do the same thing. Namibia is going to do the same thing. And there was no other way to do it for him at that time.

HOWELL: Farai, live for us, thank you.

Logging, oil drilling, new industry: an Arctic refuge in the wilds of Alaska that's been kept free from all of that but it could be about to change. We'll have more of what's at stake there.

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HOWELL: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm George Howell.

Climate activist Greta Thunberg has a message for Washington, D.C. The Swedish teen joined other young campaigners outside the White House calling for action on the climate change. She's in the United States urging Congress to take a long, hard look at what's happening to the world around them and the environment.

A pristine part of the state of Alaska is about to be opened up for oil and oil drilling and logging and that's not sitting well with environmentalists nor is it sitting well with Democrats. Our Bill Weir went there to take a look at how people there feel about it.

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BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: In the hottest Alaska summer on record, amid countless signs of a climate in crisis, a camera phone captured a Republican fundraiser on Kenai Peninsula, not far from the Swan Lake Fire, burning over three months.

SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): The President of the United States cares about Alaska.

WEIR (voice-over): With Donald Trump on speaker, that is Alaskan Senator Dan Sullivan, holding the phone and swatting at Hornets. Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker nods and smiles as the president promises to help them drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge up north and build a road through protected habitat in the south.

SULLIVAN: King Cove Road, yes sir. WEIR: And then Governor Mike Dunleavy enters the picture. He's been bonding with Trump during Air Force One refueling stops.

GOV. MIKE DUNLEAVY (R-AK): He's doing everything he can on our mining concerns, timber concerns.

WEIR: Often bringing a wish list of rules and regulations he wants overturned in the interest of creating new industry.

TRUMP: He is a great guy. He is doing something with your logging and all of your other things. We are working on that together. That's moving along.

WEIR: And when the president mentioned logging, they knew exactly what he meant. Republicans want to put new roads into the old grove of Tongass National Forest, the crown jewel of the National Forest system.

GORDON CHEW, BUILDER AND LUMBERJACK: You know, we're very much against that. And I would say first that there's nobody in this town that a mile a road here or there would benefit more than me.

WEIR: Gordon Chew runs a father-son timber operation.

So you built this yourself the whole house?

CHEW: Yes.

WEIR: And while he believes old-growth spruce and cedar can be carefully harvested one tree at a time, he's terrified of a move back to the clear-cutting days of old when ancient ecosystems returned into paper.

CHEW: We're not going to be grinding up trees for paper anymore. That's -- not in my watch. When you build a road, you don't know what's going to come down the road.

[04:55:00]

CHEW: And the reason that you would build a million-dollar-a-mile road is to extract resources big time.

WEIR: Former mayor Art Bloom tells me the roadless rule is result of decades of negotiation to protect a place that soaks up more carbon dioxide than anywhere else in America.

ART BLOOM, FORMER MAYOR, TENAKEE SPRINGS, ALASKA: You can never have this again, you know, once you cut it. It's going to come back as an even-aged stand that needs to be managed.

WEIR: And it's a plantation, not a forest.

BLOOM: It's a plantation. And that won't support the wildlife that this supports.

WEIR: This just in the CNN. Bears do poop in the woods and the bears and these woods, poop salmon, the most incredible fertilizer. The kind of fertilizer that grows cathedrals like this and these days also fuels a multi-billion dollar fishing and tourism industry.

So in Alaska, if you're going to talk about cutting down 500-year-old trees, even if you're the president, you're going to make some fishermen really angry.

What's your reaction?

TUCK HARRY, FISHING CAPTAIN: That's one of shock and dismay, I guess. You know, after all the work that we put in to keep this area roadless and keep this as pristine as we possibly can.

WEIR: And would you characterize yourself as sort of a tree-hugging liberal?

HARRY: No, not at all. Not a tree-hugging liberal at all. And the governor and the president you know, this is what I'm saying, do not -- do not do this to us. We need to keep this place intact as much as we can.

WEIR: Oh, and Captain Tuck wants me to remind you, these are your trees, America. And any new roads would be built with your tax dollars -- Bill Weir, Tenakee Springs, Alaska.

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HOWELL: Bill, thank you so much for that report.

And we thank you for being with us for this hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm George Howell at the CNN Center in Atlanta. The news continues here on the network after the break. Stay with us.

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