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President Trump Considering Releasing Transcript Of Call To Ukrainian President; Meeting Unlikely For Mike Pompeo And Javad Zarif In Upcoming U.N. General Assembly; Minnesota Turning Red In 2020; Elizabeth Warren On Top Of The Polls With Joe Biden; Amber Alert In New Jersey for Missing Five-Year-Old; Vaping-Related Death Claims Eighth Person; Elie Honig Answers Legal Questions In "Cross-Exam"; Underwater Proposal Ends In Tragedy; Suspect In The 1985 TWA Aircraft Hijacking Arrested. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 22, 2019 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: He now says that he did bring up the former Vice President Joe Biden during a phone call with the Ukrainian president, the very phone call now at the center of accusations that Trump tried to influence the upcoming election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Got a great conversation. We -- the conversation I had was largely congratulatory, it was largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place. It was largely the fact we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine.

And Ukraine's got a lot of problems. The new president is saying that he's going to be able to rid the country of corruption. Then I said that would be a great thing. We had a great conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: The president's acknowledgment there follows a source familiar with the situation telling CNN that the president did pressure the Ukrainian leader to investigate his political rival's son, Hunter Biden, during a phone call this summer on July 25th.

A whistleblower flagged the call as part of a formal complaint. We should note there is no evidence of any wrong doing by either Biden, Joe or his son, Hunter.

Now, several Democrats are calling for the president's impeach over this. More than half of the Democratic-controlled House was already there after the Mueller report was published. But now there could be more movement in the Republican-controlled Senate which could be more to convict.

Senator Mitt Romney tweeted this, "If president asked or pressured Ukraine's president to investigate his political rival either directly or through his personal attorney, it would be troubling to the extreme. Critical for the facts to come out."

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live in Ohio where the president is appearing with the Australian prime minister. Jeremy, good to have you with us. The only way we may find out what precisely was said actually on this call is if the transcripts or recordings are released. And now the president is saying he wants that to happen.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. At a minimum, the president is certainly keeping the door open to that possibility, saying just this morning to reporters that he would be fine with releasing that transcript. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So, it would be fine to do it, but you will see one of the finest, one of the nicest if we do that, or I'll have somebody -- I'll give it to a respected source, they can look at it. But what I said was so good. It was a great conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, Alex, it's not clear who that respected source exactly would be or whether the president is indeed moving towards releasing that call. Certainly, it did not appear that way this morning when the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin both appeared on Sunday shows this morning and both said that it would be a bad precedent to release those calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: If there really is nothing there, why not just -- why shouldn't the White House just let Congress, let the Gang of Eight, the intelligence leaders and leaders of the House and Senate look at this whistleblower complaint, if it's as innocent as you say, then it will clear it all up.

STEVE MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: I think that will be a terrible precedent. Conversations between world leaders are meant to be confidential.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS HOST: Why not release the transcript or a portion to the public?

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The White House will have to explain. Their load, you know, Martha, we don't release transcripts very often. It's the rare case. Those are private conversations between world leaders and it wouldn't be appropriate to do so except in the most extreme circumstances. There is no evidence that that would be appropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: So, Alex, as you can see, they're a little bit difficult to get a read on whether or not this administration is moving the direction of transparency or not. What we do know so far is that the president and his White House have so far refused to allow that whistleblower complaint to go from the director of National Intelligence --

MARQUARDT: Right.

DIAMOND: -- over to lawmakers on Capitol Hill who have been clambering for that of course. We do know however that the director of National Intelligence is expected to brief Senate intelligence committee leaders later this week on that whistleblower complaint. How many details though he will reveal still very much in question, Alex.

MARQUARDT: You're absolutely right, Jeremy, that it's important to note that the White House and the Department of Justice told the acting director of National Intelligence not the hand over that complaint to Congress, so it is going to be a contentious week on the Hill. Jeremy Diamond with the president in Ohio. Thank you very much.

Now, it's important to look at the timeline of this. So, we're going to dig into this a little bit more with Susan Hennessey, a former lawyer from the National Security Agency as well as Sabrina Siddiqui from the "Wall Street Journal."

I want to go to you Susan first. Do we have Susan and -- yes, they're there. Susan, you were at the National Security Agency. Let's talk about the transcripts. You have the president here saying that he wants the transcripts to come out.

[17:05:02]

You have people, Biden and other candidates, clambering for them. If the transcripts are released, do you think that there would be some sort of smoking gun if we see that conversation in black and white between President Trump and President Zelensky?

SUSAN HENNESSEY, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: Yes. So there's certainly nothing whatsoever to prevent the White House from voluntarily releasing this transcripts. They have done this in the past, released transcripts of calls with foreign leaders. The president is able to do that.

Now, according to reports, he made these comments at least eight times in a single phone call with the Ukrainian president. You know, there is a little bit of a question of whether or not there was an overt quid pro quo.

Something that's specifically tied that request for essentially dirt on Joe Biden and dirt on an American citizen, to the releasing of military aid for Ukraine. That's important to keep in mind. That would just be sort of an aggravating factor here.

The idea that the president of the United States would merely attempt to exert any kind of pressure whatsoever on a foreign leader in order to engage in really this civil liberty as abuse, would itself be really, really worrying.

So, it is important that we see the transcript that we look at the specifics of that. That said, you know, according to news reporting, the whistleblower complaint is not just about this one phone call. There is also other instances that concern this individual and so certainly, you know, Congress should see this transcript.

The White House should lean forward, embrace full transparency if they say they really have nothing to hide, demonstrate exactly what the president said in this call. Now, that alone might be enough.

Certainly, the reporting is incredibly disturbing just on its face. We might see information that's even more alarming. That said, even if the transcripts were to come out, it's likely only going to be one piece of more complicated picture.

MARQUARDT: Sabrina, politically -- I want to go back to the tweet that Mitt Romney put out earlier today when he -- and he wrote that if the president asked or pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate Biden, it's "extremely troubling."

The president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, admitted to Chris Cuomo a couple of nights ago that that was the conversation. That he was pressuring the Ukrainians to look into Hunter Biden and you now have the president acknowledging that he brought up Biden on that call. So what more do Republicans like Romney need?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, that's really been the question time and again. You saw with the Russia investigation despite multiple contacts between the Russians and members of the Trump campaign.

And at a minimum, a willingness to collude as well as many as 10 potential instances of obstruction of justice by the president. That still was not enough to move the needle for Republicans.

But this is no longer a hypothetical in so far as they said there was no evidence in their minds that the president was involved in any kind of conspiracy between the Russians and his campaign. This is the president openly acknowledging that at a minimum, he discussed a political rival with the leader of a foreign government.

And I think if you think back to actually his interview with ABC News in June, you'll recall that the president openly said that he may actually take dirt from a foreign government on an opponent and that he wouldn't necessarily report that conversation to the FBI.

So I think when you're a Republican, you really have to look at the pattern of behavior on the part of this president and the fact that he doesn't think he's actually doing anything wrong even though as Susan pointed out, this is really potentially egregious misuse of the power of the presidency.

MARQUARDT: That's a really good point, I mean, but there's a difference between accepting dirt from a foreign power and proactively going out to seek it. So, if we take this situation, Susan, if the president did indeed pressure Ukraine to investigate the political rival, let's put aside the ethical questions for a second. What laws if any would be broken?

HENNESSEY: Well, so this is a really, really good example of where impeachable contact might not have an explicit overlap with sort of criminal law. And this is something that we saw a little bit during the Mueller investigation.

A lot of focus on did the president's conduct meet these specific statutory elements, only to have Robert Mueller conclude, hey, the president can't be indicted any way so I'm not going to make that conclusion.

What we have here is overt abuse of office, exactly the type of impeachable conduct that the founders had in mind. Now that said, Congress can't move to impeach based off of news reporting alone. And so of course the president did in his own way appear to confirm at least part of that reporting.

That said, Congress does now need to establish its own record. But it doesn't need to find some new additional information, something worse than what we already know. All Congress needs to do is establish on the record and confirm for themselves that the president did in fact have this conversation.

That he did in fact in the course of official business, having a conversation with a foreign leader of an allied nation, essentially solicit this favor and suggest that this foreign government should go out.

[17:10:03]

A foreign government that had determined there was no criminal wrong doing, asking them to essentially re-open this investigation, really an astonishing abuse.

MARQUARDT: And what we know that part of this whistleblower complaint at least does involve the communications between the president and Ukraine -- a promise reportedly made to this foreign power.

Sabrina, we have seen the inspector general of the intelligence community go to the House Intelligence Committee saying this complaint exists and sort of describing in broad term how they see the situation legally, but at the same time, the White House and DOJ have blocked the acting DNI, Joseph Maguire, from handing that over.

Can you see any way that Adam Schiff and the intelligence community could actually get their hands on this complaint or are they completely being stymied by the White House?

SIDDIQUI: Well one of the challenges for Democrats in Congress is that they have been repeatedly stymied in their investigative efforts by the White House and the Trump administration. So, in many of these cases, they have had to proceed to the courts and try and litigate this matter and hope that perhaps the courts might rule in their favor.

I think that, you know, it's telling at least that you've seen Democrats including Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, believe that this in fact is perhaps a significant development, particularly as it pertains to calls on Capitol Hill to launch a formal impeachment inquiry. And certainly what some Democrats had been arguing is that launching an impeachment inquiry would certainly give the committees more tools at their disposal in terms of subpoenaing witnesses and documents pertaining to what could now give them another front in a new investigation.

And I think the real question Democrats have been facing is what are they willing to accept as the new standards of conduct in the Oval Office. The more that they sort of, you know, kind of deliberate over whether or not they've reached the threshold that they need for an impeachment inquiry --

MARQUARDT: Right.

SIDDIQUI: -- the more they're allowing this behavior to become the new norm.

MARQUARDT: Yes. A lot of Democrats will be getting that question this week whether their minds have changed about the impeachment questions.

But Susan, one of the people with the least enviable positions in Washington today is Joseph Maguire, the new acting director of National Intelligence because he's got this complaint from within his own intelligence community about his boss, the president.

We are expecting to see him testify both to the House and the Senate later this week. What would you ask him?

HENNESSEY: Yes, so, doesn't it appear that acting director Maquire is prepared to break ranks with the Department of Justice. He is likely to refuse to say anything about the underlying substance of this complaint. And so I think what we're going to see is a lot of frustrated members of Congress asking questions that he refuses the answer.

They could ask questions about sort of process who specifically, you know, gave him this direction. You know, that said, the Congress does have an option in the face of sort of White House stonewalling, refusing to provide this complaint, the transcript or other additional information.

And that's what they can say. This is an extraordinarily serious allegation. And if the White House refuses to provide us with any information, any information about this whistleblower complaint or about the substance of the call, then we have no choice but to not extend the benefit of the doubt and to conclude that this news reporting is accurate.

And keep in mind, the president himself this morning did suggest that this might actually be accurate. So basically Congress can say that the White House can release these transcripts at in time if they really have nothing to hide.

If they decline to do so, however, Congress is going the reach the negative inference that this did in fact happen --

MARQUARDT: Right.

HENNESSEY: -- and proceed to impeachment -- potentially impeachment inquiries or investigative inquiries on those terms.

MARQUARDT: Well, the president says he wants the transcripts to see the light of day. Congress certainly wants to see them so hopefully, that will happen this week. Sabrina Siddiqui, Susan Hennessey, thank you so much.

SIDDIQUI: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Now, as world leaders descend this week on New York for the United Nations General Assembly, all eyes will be on two men really. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his Iranian counterpart, Mohammad Javad Zarif. But will President Trump meet with Iran's leader as their war on words over this month's Saudi oil attacks ramps up yet again?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POMPEO: President Trump and I both want to give diplomacy every opportunity succeed, but I think the whole world knows that when that fails, when it's the case that we no longer believe that we can convince the Iranian regime to behave in the way the we've asked them to behave, just behave like a normal nation, I think the whole world knows including the Iranian regime of American military might.

RADDATZ: Are you confident we can avoid war? Iran doesn't seem confident.

POMPEO: We're working towards that. I've watched their leadership talk about all out war, talked about the destruction death of Israel, wiping the state. Remember, Iran began as anti-Semitic, anti-western, anti-modern. That's the history of this regime, Martha. You know it well for 40 years.

[17:15:00]

Our administration is taking this on in a serious way and we are working diligently to see that this has a diplomatic outcome. But make no mistake about it, if we're unsuccessful in that and Iran continues to strike out in this way, I'm confident that President Trump will make the decisions necessary to achieve our objectives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And Iran's foreign minister, Javad Zarif has also offered up his thoughts on negotiating with the United States in an interview with our Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAN: We are prepared if President Trump is serious about permanent for permanent. Permanent is Iran was never a nuclear weapon state, but permanent denuclearization as they like to hear it. Permanent peaceful nuclear program in Iran and permanent monitoring of Iranian nuclear facilities as you said through the most intrusive IEA inspection mechanism that exists.

In return for what he has said, he is prepared to do and that is to go to Congress and have this ratified, which would mean Congress lifting the sanctions --

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: The president has said that?

ZARIF: The president said any new agreement that I will have with Iran, I'll take to Congress and ratify it. So, take it to Congress, ratify it. That Congress has lifted the sanctions and then we will have a permanent new agreement which would augment the one we already have.

AMANPOUR: Are you saying that President Rouhani in this heightened atmosphere of tension would still be willing, here at the General Assembly to meet with President Trump?

ZARIF: Provided that President Trump is ready to do what's necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Christiane Amanpour's full interview with the Iranian foreign minister airs tomorrow.

Now to the 2020 lace and Senator Elizabeth Warren, she is surging in a new CNN poll. But is it part of a larger trend for her campaign? We'll take a look at that.

Plus, the Trump campaign has dreams of turning Minnesota red. So we visited one area where a lot of former Democrats say they're voting for Trump in 2020. You'll hear why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

MARQUARDT: Iowa is still full of 2020 presidential hopefuls today, the day after a key event of the primary season, that's the Polk County Democratic Party steak fry. But the steak's not the only thing sizzling in Iowa. When you factor in the new margin of error in a new CNN/Des Moines register poll, Elizabeth Warren is in a virtual dead heat with Joe Biden. He's been leading the pack this whole time.

Now, neither holds a clear lead at this point, but this new poll does finds that Warren and Biden are breaking well ahead of the rest of the field. Despite all this, Senator Warren isn't pausing to enjoy the surge, not even for a moment. This afternoon, she joined a picket line by striking G.M. and United Auto Workers in Detroit where she said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-M), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't do polls. We are still months away from the Iowa caucuses and (inaudible) primary elections. But this is about -- it's about the message that we are sick and tired of American (inaudible) for a thinner and thinner slice at the top and isn't working for anyone else. We are on this picket line today to say that we're going to make this America work for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And it is 134 days to be exact until the Iowa caucuses. Now over to Minnesota where since 1932, it's been a state that has tended to swing for Democrats, but the Republican Party hopes that 2020 will see Minnesota flip for the GOP. CNN's Martin Savidge finds that in some areas especially in the rural parts of the state like Eveleth, Minnesota, the wind of change are indeed blowing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN HOST (voice-over): In rural northern Minnesota, things are changing -- the temperature, the leaves, the politics.

(on camera): Are we talking thousands of people sort of shifting and changing their politics?

ROBERT VLAISAVLJEVICH, MAYOR OF EVELETH, MINNESOTA: Yes. We are. Oh yes.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Once a Democratic stronghold, many of the voters we talk to here say more and more, they align with the president.

JEFF FORSEE, MOUNTAIN IRON, MINNESOTA RESIDENT: Her two brothers were staunch union Democrats for years and they're not anymore.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): This is mining country. Not coal mining, but taconite, a mineral used in making steel. Forty, 50 years ago, the Iron Range as it's called was booming, bringing big city prosperity to small towns like Eveleth.

VLAISAVLJEVICH: Things were just more gang busters, businesses all over. Then when it crashed, everybody's caught by surprise. It crashed and crashed hard.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): The number of mining jobs in the region went from over 14,000 in the '80s to just about 4,500 today, leaving families and main streets to suffer. Robert Vlaisavljevich has been the mayor of Eveleth for 18 years on and off.

He votes Democrat on state races. But he's got Trump sicker on his desk, a Christmas card from the president on his bulletin board and deer on his office wall sports a MAGA hat.

(on camera): The political support for the president, part of this is really just a matter of surviving.

VLAISAVLJEVICH: Economics. Yes. That's -- he's our guy. He supports mining. He's our guy.

TRUMP: Our steel industry is vibrant again. It was dead. SAVIDGE (voice-over): Trump's tariffs on imported steel are popular

so is his easing of environmental regulations. They also like his crack down on immigration. In a state that's 80 percent white, the influx of Somali refugees has been a contention issue. Minnesota Representative Ilhan Omar is a controversial figure here.

VLAISAVLJEVICH: She (inaudible) a lot of people.

SAVIDE (on camera): She's not popular here.

VLAISAVLJEVICH: No. Not all.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Folks here say they didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left them. Melissa Axelson's husband works for a mining company.

MELISSA AXELSON, EVELETH, MINNESOTA RESIDENT: I think they've changed. I see conservative candidates seem to be more for the working person.

MIKE VOLKER, EVELETH, MINNESOTA RESIDENT: The Democrats kind of shifted more to the left and Republicans are kind of taking over the party for jobs.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): All this matters because in 2016, Trump barely lost Minnesota by just 44,000 votes. Political experts say gains in places like the Iron Range could help boost the GOP's prospects in the state in 2020.

CINDY RUGELEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: I don't think this is a lock down Democratic state like it used to be.

[17:25:03]

SAVIDGE: Cindy, do you think that this area could flip this state? In other words, do you think this area could be key to the president's win if he wins?

CINDY FORSEE, MOUNTAIN IRON, MINNESOA RESIDENT: I do if we keep pushing.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Supporters say they'd like to see the president plan some campaign rallies in the region, believing that in Minnesota's mining country, when it comes to votes, President Trump could strike gold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: Our thanks to Martin Savidge there. Now, it's been six days since a five-year-old girl disappeared from a New Jersey playground. We have the latest on the investigation. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUARDT: It has been six days and police are still frantically looking for a little girl they say may have been abducted from a playground in Bridgeton, New Jersey.

An Amber Alert was issued after police say that five-year-old Dulve Maria Alavez disappeared from a city park on Monday afternoon possibly taken by a man driving a red van with tinted windows. A reward of at least $35,000 is now being offered.

[17:29:59]

The community held a vigil last night at the park where Dulce she was last seen. Many of them wearing yellow shirts because Dulce was wearing a yellow shirt with a koala bear on its front when she disappeared. CNN's Polo Sandoval joins me now. He's been following the story. Polo, do the police have any idea where she might be?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Really, no strong leads at this point, Alex. The reward amount they just mentioned, about $35,000, that continues to grow as the search continues to expand. Tomorrow it will be seven days since this little girl was spotted on a New Jersey playground.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Dulce Maria Alavez went missing soon after this surveillance video was taken on Monday. The 5-year-old is seen making an ice cream stop with her mother and brother at a southern New Jersey convenience store.

According to investigators, the family then made their way to nearby Bridgeton City Park where police believe she was abducted. The girl's mother tells investigators she remained in her vehicle with another child as Dulce and her brother played on a swing set some 30 yards away. When her son returned, no sight of Dulce.

NOEMA ALAVEZ PEREZ, MOTHER OF DULCE: The only thing we're asking is for her to come back home safely. We don't know who took her, who's with her, how she's doing and everything. The only thing we're trying to do is find her.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Bridgeton police suspect the little girl was lured into a red sliding door van with tinted windows. An Amber alert describes the person police want to speak to as being between 5'6 and 5'8" with a thin build. He had acne, no facial hair and was spotted wearing orange sneakers, red pants and a black shirt, authorities said.

JENNIFER WEBB-MCRAE, PROSECUTOR: This person may not realize that they have important information that may be able to help us locate Dulce.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): For much of the week, search crews have scoured the nearly 1,000 acre park with canines, divers, and by air, still no sign of the little girl. The vice president of the Center for Missing and Exploited Children said he believes there are three possibilities being considered by police.

ROBERT LOWERY, JR, VICE PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: The child, you know, may have found herself alone or met someone, an adult, who gained her trust, is one b possibility. It could have been somebody that she knew that she went with or that she simply wander off and got herself lost.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): As the search extends into the weekend, authorities are offering a reward for any information that could provide answers for a grief-stricken New Jersey family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (on camera): The Alavez family leaning on each other and also the power of prayer, hoping that there will be some lead at some point here, Alex. You mentioned the vigil. There is certainly that unity among the family here.

There was a spokesperson for the Alavez family saying that they are closely working with authorities and the way he put it, Dulce will be found one way or another, the way he described it. They believe in their heart that she is still alive somewhere.

MARQUARDT: Yes. I can't imagine the fear and the pain that they're going through right now. Our thoughts of course are with the Alavez family.

SANDOVAL: Sure.

MARQUARDT: Polo, we know you'll stay on the story. Thanks very much.

All right, eight people have now died in the U.S. due to vaping related illnesses. This is coming as Wal-Mart, which is America's largest retailer, says that they will stop selling e -cigarettes. So, big question, is that enough? I'll be speaking with the founders of a grass roots anti-vaping group. That's coming up next live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

MARQUARDT: Once viewed as a healthier alternative to smoking now has health officials really on high alert. The number of deaths from vaping-related illnesses nationwide is now up to eight after a man from Missouri died this week just four months after he started using e-cigarettes.

Across the country, there have now been 530 confirmed or probably cases of injuries related to e-cigarettes. The problem now so alarming that Wal-Mart, the nation's biggest retailer says it will no longer sell vaping devices.

My next two guests are co-founders of the group, Parents Against Vaping. It's a grassroots organization that was founded by a group of concerned moms who hoped to prevent younger kids from using e- cigarettes. Dorian Furhman and Meredith Berkman, thanks so much for joining me.

DORIAN FUHRMAN, CO-FOUNDER PARENTS AGAINTS VAPING: Thank you for having us.

MARQUARDT: Now, you two came together a year ago to create this group --

FUHRMAN: With a third friend.

MEREDITH BERKMAN, CO-FOUNDER, PARENTS AGAINST VAPING: With a third co-founder.

MARQUARDT: -- because you had been looking around and realized that there was nothing, there was no group like this. Is that right?

FUHRMAN: Right. Well, that's how it first started. We started to notice the proliferation of Juul around our kids. My own son was using it ant I would find it time and time again in his pockets. And we didn't really understand what it was. We looked it up but it wasn't very clear online. It was a nicotine delivery system but aside from that, we didn't really know.

So yes, so we started to look and then there was one real catalyst which really pushed us forward. It was when a Juul representative came into our kid's school and discussed Juul with them telling them it was safe, but they weren't wanted as customers, but it was perfectly safe. And then we had to.

MARQUARDT: That's extraordinary. Meredith, how does that happen? How does a company like Juul manage to convince a school administrator that they should be allowed into a classroom and understand that it was --

BERKMAN: But it was not --

MARQUARDT: -- without teachers present?

BERKMAN: So, the school had absolutely no idea.

MARQUARDT: Where was this school?

BERKMAN: The school is in New York and the school had absolutely no idea. And there was an anti-addiction outside group which very often come into these schools and teachers will leave the room so the kids can speak freely about their own use or their own questions.

So, when the teachers left the room, the person who had been brought in by the outside group which was very misguided and naive, but well- intentioned, the outside group had been researching best speakers to tell kids not to Juul.

And at that time, Juul had on it's Web site a named employee who had a title something like youth prevention education coordinator.

MARQUARDT: Right.

BERKMAN: So they called that person and said, oh, we have the perfect person and sent the person into the school. It was the mixed messaging where the kids are being told, it's not for you guys, but it's totally safe. Not for you guys. The FDA will approve it any moment.

MARQUARDT: Right.

BERKMAN: And then took out the Juul at the end when our sons approached, showed the kids how it worked, called it the iPhone of vapes.

[17:40:00]

And we knew that if they were going into schools like ours, it was not the only school they were going into. And in fact, our research, you know, revealed that these predatory practices were rampant across the county.

MARQUARDT: This has long been cast at least by the industry as a healthier alternative. Dorian, are we only now beginning to realize the health consequences of vaping?

FUHRMAN: Well, I think it's like any product, it takes a while to get the information and vaping has been around only for a very short time. So for children to use a vaping device, its adding nicotine into a pure body that's never had a nicotine addiction before.

So that's just, you know, unacceptable. As far as smokers switching, the research isn't there so we just don't, you know, no one knew at the time. Now, we're starting to see that perhaps, you know, it needs to be looked into further.

MARQUARDT: Well, it -- sorry, go ahead.

BERKMAN: Well, I was just going to say a few things. First that, you know, in 2015 when Juul came on the market and disrupted the entire e- cigarette market, that changed the game -- excuse me -- they were targeting teens through social media marketing like going into schools.

All of these things, we and our sons testified about over the summer in a House Congressional hearing. And it's the flavors --

MARQUARDT: Right. Right.

BERKMAN: -- that are the problem. It is the flavors that initiated these kids who would otherwise not have been using tobacco products. And the president has said that he will ask FDA to finally use the authority it's had to remove them and we are grateful and hope he does it.

MARQUARDT: Well, it is a huge issue. It is a powerful industry. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.

BERKMAN: Thank you.

FUHRMAN: Thank you for having us.

MARQUARDT: Dorian Fuhrman, Meredith Berkman, thank you very much.

BERKMAN: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: All right. Well, as the fallout over President Trump's phone call with Ukraine's leader grows, does Congress have a right to see that complaint? Our Elie Honig joins us live. But first --

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR (voice-over): Last year, more than 28 million travelers worldwide took to the seas on cruise liners. But as the industry grows, it brings a bigger impact on the environment. A problem Norwegian cruise company, Hurtigruten, has been trying to off set with the new fleet of hybrid ships.

(on camera): The company's move to hybrid comes ahead of a sea change in the industry itself. Come January, sulphur from heavy fuel oil will have to be a fraction of what it was for decades, setting off a scramble in the industry for solutions.

(voice-over): These engine rooms will soon be transformed to new hybrid systems combining marine gas oil with electric battery packs and even bio gas produced from organic waste from Norway's fisheries and forests.

DANIEL SKJELDAM, CEO, HURTIGRUTEN: Our aim is to show that it's possible, that we can build the world's first hybrid powered cruise ship with batteries, that we can be the first ones to start using bio gas, and then we expect other ones to pick it up.

DEFTERIOS (voice-over): John Defterios, CNN, Norway.

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[17:45:00]

MARQUARDT: The whistleblower complaint surrounding a phone call between President Trump and the Ukrainian president back in July and the administration's refusal to turn over that complaint to Congress, that's sending shock waves through Washington and has many asking, what's the next step?

And that brings us to our weekly segment, "Cross-Exam" with CNN legal analyst and former federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig. He is here to answer your questions about legal news. Elie, always great to have you with us.

We've got a number of different suggests to attack today. Up first, this whistleblower complaint and one viewer is asking, does the House Intelligence Committee have a legal right to see the whistleblower complaint about Trump.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Alex, lots of viewer questions about this, this week. So the law is straightforward here. If the inspector general receives a complaint and determines that it is, one, urgent and two, credible, then the law says he shall submit that complaint to Congress.

Shall submit -- it is straightforward. There is no wiggle room. But the director of National Intelligence this week consulted with the Department of Justice and concluded that that law actually does not apply to the president. So yet again, we see William Barr's DOJ acting as a rubber tamp, coming out wherever best serves the president.

Big picture here, Alex, what we have is a clash between the branches. We have a showdown between the executive and the legislative branch. They're likely to end up in that third branch, the judiciary, to resolve it. The stakes here could not be higher.

If this proves out, if Donald Trump used hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to try to pressure Ukraine to investigate a political opponent, we could have federal crimes in play. We could bribery, extortion, foreign election aid and we could have an unprecedented abuse of power by the president.

MARQUARDT: Yes. Adam Schiff, the intel committee already threatening to take them to court. Let's switch to the judiciary committee. This week, we saw Corey Lewandowski testifying on Capitol Hill, very fiery, very testy. One viewer is asking, can Congress do anything to force Lewandowski to answer the questions that he refused to answer in that hearing?

HONIG: Corey Lewandowski, the world's angriest (inaudible)g around here. The White House has directed me not to respond.

MARQUARDT: Right.

HONIG: The White House has --

MARQUARDT: We know he never worked for them.

HONIG: Right. Congress has three enforcement options here. None of them are great. Congress theoretically has its own enforcement power but that has essentially disappeared from not being used over years. They don't have a police force that can go out and make an arrest. No, there is not currently a jail cell in the Capitol grounds.

They can also second refer the case over to Department of Justice for criminal prosecution. Bill Barr sitting there, I think we know that's going nowhere. And third, they can make a civil complaint. They can go into the courts.

That's the most likely outcome, however, that's going to take months. House Democrats have really set up a strategic paradox here. On the one hand, they get very damaging testimony from Lewandowski about obstruction. On other hand, it is just not making a dent on impeachment and I think that's because of the House Democrats own indecision.

MARQUARDT: The questions about impeachment often referring to the president. Now, there are questions of impeachment referring to Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court -- some 20 Democratic candidates renewing their calls for his impeachment. So, we have a viewer asking is this possible? Could he be impeached? Is it realistic?

HONIG: It's possible, yes. It's not realistic though. Yes, federal judges can be impeached.

[17:50:00]

Fifteen have been impeached through our history. As recently as 2010, a federal judge was impeached and convicted and removed. But if you do the math here, look, the House Democrats could impeach Brett Kavanaugh tomorrow. All they need is a majority. But the Senate you need two- thirds.

A year ago when Kavanaugh was confirmed, he got 50 votes for confirmation, 19 of those would need to flip over to vote in favor of conviction and removal. That's not going to happen.

I did think it was notable that when this all happened, Donald Trump tweeted that the Department of Justice should come to Kavanaugh's rescue. I just want to say --

MARQUARDT: Right.

HONIG: -- as a DOJ alum, that is absolutely not what DOJ is about.

MARQUARDT: Not -- they are the people's lawyer, not the president's lawyer.

HONIG: Absolutely.

MARQUARDT: All these excellent viewer questions, what are your big legal questions for the week?

HONIG: So, where do House dems go next on their impeachment inquiry? Are they going to commit to some real tangible action? Are they going to continue to spin in circles? Number two, will President Trump and Mitch McConnell come to some sort of agreement on gun legislation? They've both said they're willing to consider, but they sort of pointed at each other and passed the buck back and forth.

And third, will Congress and the administration do to the courts over this whistle blower complaint. We're going to have hearings this week. There is a lot more to come on this huge story.

MARQUARDT: Another busy week. You will be all over it.

HONIG: You know that.

MARQUARDT: We know. Elie Honig, thanks so much.

HONIG: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: All right. Well, coming up, he proposed to his girlfriend underwater and then never got to hear her say yes. How a dream engagement turned tragic for one couple.

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MARQUARDT: Now, to the tragedy involving a Louisiana man who died while proposing to his girlfriend underwater. The couple was vacationing in Tanzania when the man dove to the window of their underwater hotel room with the ring and a handwritten note that read, "I can't hold my breath long enough to tell you everything I love about you, but everything I love about you I love more every day. Will you please be my wife?"

His girlfriend later called his death the cruelest twist of fate imaginable. Also writing, I will carry the blessings of the love we shared with me forever. As well as the answer to his proposal, yes, yes, a million times yes. What an incredibly sad story.

Now, Greek police have made a major arrest in the 1985 hijacking of an airliner in which an American was killed. A 65-year-old Lebanese man was stopped and arrested after a routine security check on the island of Mykonos.

Police believe that the suspect and others hijacked TWA Flight 847 bound from Athens to Rome with more than 100 passengers and crew. They were held for 17 days before being released. The hijackers killed an American Navy diver on board.

The president is acknowledging that he mentioned Joe Biden and Joe Biden's son in a call with Ukraine's president, a call that prompted a whistleblower to come forward.

And as some Democrats are calling for impeachment, they may have a big supporter from across the aisle. That's coming up.

[17:59:59]

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