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Trump Allies & Advisers Entangled In Impeachment Probe; Ukraine Faces Fallout From U.S. Whistleblower Scandal; NY Times: Trump Suggested Shooting Migrants In The Legs, Fortifying Border With Snake And Alligator-Filled Trench; U.N.: Saudi Crown Prince Distancing Himself From Killing; At Least 600 Missing One Month After Hurricane Hit. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired October 02, 2019 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome everyone to CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rosemary Church, a busy hour of news just ahead.
We'll start with escalating political tension in Washington and a showdown looming between Democrats on Capitol Hill, and the U.S. secretary of state, amid their impeachment inquiry of President Trump.
In Hong Kong, people trying to justify the use of live ammunition on protesters.
Plus Boris Johnson's final offer, the British prime minister prepares to unveil the plan he hopes can end the Brexit deadlock.
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CHURCH: Good to have you with us.
So with U.S. president Donald Trump facing impeachment inquiry, House Democrats are zeroing in, on the State Department. Secretary of state Mike Pompeo is facing a subpoena and sources say his department's inspector general wants an urgent briefing with top congressional staffers on Ukraine.
Coming in the hours, President Trump's July call with Ukraine's president is at the heart of the scandal, a transcript shows Mr. Trump asked Ukraine's leader to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden, and sources say, Mike Pompeo was in that call.
The chairman of the House Intelligence, Oversight and Foreign Affairs Committees say that could be a conflict of interest, they say this is a letter sent to Pompeo's deputy, if true, Secretary Pompeo is now a fact witness in the impeachment inquiry.
He should not be making any decision regarding witness testimony or document production in order to protect himself or the president.
Pompeo is pushing back against the subpoena an both sides are now accusing each other of witness intimidation. CNN's Kaitlan Collins has more from the White House.
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TRUMP: And it's a disgrace.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight secretary of state Mike Pompeo is following President Trump's lead. Accusing Democrats with questions about Ukraine of trying to intimidate and bully State Department officials into giving rushed depositions, the secretary of state writing in a letter, "I will not tolerate such tactics."
The three Democratic chairs fired back quickly, saying Pompeo should immediately cease intimidating department witnesses in order to protect himself and the president. Secretary Pompeo's actions also coming under scrutiny from someone who once held his job.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The secretary of state's job is to make sure that he knows, number one, what the president's going to say on those calls.
COLLINS: CNN has confirmed Pompeo was listening in when Trump pressured Ukrainian President Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, even though he seemed surprised by a question about those conversations just days ago.
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: So you just gave me a report about a -- a whistleblower complaint, none of which I've seen.
COLLINS: As Trump maintains his call was perfect, the Ukrainian president is distancing himself from the man at the center of it all.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I've never met Rudy Giuliani. Never.
COLLINS: As the impeachment inquiry heats up, Trump is keeping his focus on the whistleblower, insisting he's entitled to interview the person who started the investigation. The president is questioning the identity of the whistleblower and his allies are questioning their motives.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What is going on here?
Why did they change the rules about a whistleblower, you can use hearsay, when you could not just weeks before the complaint?
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): He had no firsthand knowledge --
RUDY GIULIANI, ADVISOR TO DONALD TRUMP: He is giving them hearsay evidence.
COLLINS (voice-over): But none of what they said is true. According to Trump's own intelligence community inspector general, who, in a rare pushback, said the official had some firsthand knowledge and none of the rules to be a whistleblower have changed. Republican Senator Chuck Grassley chairs the Whistleblower Protection Caucus and he broke with Trump today when he said the official ought to be heard and protected.
One official still in the president's corner is attorney General Bill Barr, who, in recent months, has pressed multiple foreign leaders for help as he investigates the origins of the Russia investigation, following Trump's orders from May.
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TRUMP: And I hope he looks at the U.K and I hope he looks at Australia and I hope he looks at Ukraine. I hope he looks at everything.
COLLINS: Mike Pompeo delivered that to lawmakers today. But one current official who was the special envoy to Ukraine that resigned last week after he got caught up in this scandal is still going to sit down with the Democrats on Thursday for a deposition to question him as a former official, to see whether or not the State Department tried to limit or block what Volker can tell lawmakers -- Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.
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CHURCH: And for more, I'm joined from Los Angeles by Jessica Levinson, a professor of law at Loyola Law School.
Good to have you with us.
JESSICA LEVINSON, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Good to be here.
CHURCH: We now know the U.S. secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, was listening in on that controversial phone call, where President Trump asked Ukraine's President Zelensky to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden, and his son.
And yet Mr. Pompeo is accusing Democrats of trying to intimidate and bully State Department officials to give depositions on questions surrounding that call. The three Democratic chairs are pushing back, accusing Pompeo of intimidating witnesses to protect himself and the president.
What is going on here?
And does this amount to obstruction of the impeachment inquiry?
LEVINSON: What's going on here is that this is why I think Americans and viewers worldwide hate politics, is because there is mudslinging, there's recalcitrance, there's, frankly, actions you would not want to see in a 3-year old.
So what we are seeing here is secretary Pompeo simply trying to do, what I think the administration really wants to happen in this impeachment inquiry which is to try and block it, to try and do what they have been doing throughout the impeachment investigation, which obviously has been ongoing for a few months now, which is to say, no, we are not responding to any subpoenas, basically try and catch me if you can.
What the Democratic chairs, as you've said, have warranted is this is accepting of justice because now we're in an official impeachment inquiry and to the extent that you try to stall or try to refuse to comply with that we can charge you with obstruction of justice.
That is true, I think this is exactly what the American public did not want, is this dissolving into partisan bickering but this is well within Congress' oversight discretion to call the secretary, obviously he's a key witness, to ask him and his subordinates what they heard.
And it looks like the Trump administration is continuing to do what it has been doing, which is to block, block, block.
CHURCH: President Trump in the meantime is trying to uncover the identity of the whistleblower in this and insists that because the information provided is not based on firsthand knowledge of events, then it has no value. Of course we know that is not true.
Why did the president and Senator Lindsey Graham not know that?
LEVINSON: I don't know if it's not know that or if it's just want to ignore that, because I think with the president has done throughout this defense of the impeachment inquiry is try to throw a lot of things out, make it sound like a tainted, biased inquiry or, as he likes to call it, a witch hunt and then hope that one of them sticks.
A couple things that obviously are pretty dangerous with respect to his approach with the whistleblower. One is that there's a reason whistleblowers have protection. They take great risks to themselves to go through the proper channels, to say I have observed wrongdoing and somebody needs to investigate that.
The other thing is, obviously, hearsay is a legal term we use for out of court statements used to prove the truth of the matter asserted. What matters here is not whether the whistleblower had firsthand knowledge. What matters is whether or not the words written on the complaint can be corroborated, whether or not they are true.
So it doesn't matter who was in the room. It matters if these things happened.
CHURCH: And the State Department inspector general is requesting an urgent Capitol Hill briefing on Wednesday afternoon on the Ukraine document.
What is likely to come out of this unusual meeting?
LEVINSON: To be honest, I think it's lots of guessing as to why they have called this urgent meeting. I think what the inspector general really wants to do is to assure that when a whistleblower complaints to do come forth, that the proper processes are followed, that their identities are protected and that that we have a problem with the inspector general in that he reviewed the complaint and said it is urgent and credible.
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LEVINSON: And we have a Department of Justice, for reasons that we don't yet know, said, no, we don't find it urgent and the criminal division of the DOJ saying that we won't even open an inquiry.
I think the inspector general's office is running out of patience and I think they are very worried about what they see in terms of how the executive branch is responding to these congressional subpoenas.
CHURCH: Jessica Levinson, always appreciate your legal analysis, many thanks to you.
LEVINSON: Thank you.
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CHURCH: A U.S. official is confirming North Korea test-fired a ballistic missile on Wednesday and it was launched from an underwater platform, this comes just a day after Washington and Pyongyang agreed to restart nuclear talks this weekend.
A U.S. official tells CNN this latest test is not a surprise. North Korea has conducted a series of missile tests recently, rattling its neighbors, President Trump has downplayed the significance but his former national security adviser disagrees. Here's what John Bolton said about the North Korean leader on Monday.
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JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He may try to get relief from international sanctions, he may make some concessions, but under current circumstances he, will never give up the nuclear weapons voluntarily.
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CHURCH: Bolted added it's unacceptable for North Korea to have nuclear weapons.
At least two people are dead, 200 others wounded, after a violent day of protests in Iraq's capital. Anti-government protesters clashed with security forces in Baghdad. They are anger at unemployment, government corruption and a lack of basic services. Authorities say the violence began when demonstrators tried to cross a bridge, into the heavily fortified green zone, where government buildings and foreign embassies are located.
Police in Hong Kong are defending their decision to use live ammunition on pro democracy protesters. More than 180 people were arrested on Tuesday in what the police commissioner calls, the most violent scenes he's ever seen in the city, 25 police officers were injured and an 18-year-old protester was shot and seriously injured by police.
They say he was assaulting an officer. The man was arrested and is hospitalized in stable condition. It's the first time in months of protest police have used live ammunition. Let's turn to CNN's Will Ripley, who joins us from the streets of Hong Kong.
What is the latest on that 18 year old protester that was shot and what are the authorities saying about the use of live ammunition and why alternatives were not used?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the ammunition question, officers have been carrying weapons with live ammunition and have fired warning shots several other times in recent weeks. And they have said the officers may be forced to take steps to protect themselves including the use, of live ammunition if protesters attack them.
That's exactly what this 18-year-old high school student, who is in hospital in stable condition right, now, is accused of doing. This young man is under arrest, he's facing a charge of assaulting a police officer and may be facing additional charges, of rioting as well.
This is not likely to sit well with the protest movement or the frontliners of the protest movement, the ones out getting into these confrontations with the, police like I saw yesterday, picking up brigs from the sidewalk and bringing them to the government complex where they were hurling them at officers along with petrol bombs ,who then fired back with tear gas, nonlethal ammunition and they deployed the water cannon yesterday as well
I think the lesson to be learned here, according to police, is do not attack, physically attack officers. There are videos of this incident that show one Hong Kong police officer on the ground with a protester on top of him. Police say they believe they were outnumbered in that moment.
And then the officer who fired this shot with a live round, at the 18- year-old student, there was a video of a protester swinging what looked like a metal rod.
At what point does it become acceptable for police to use live ammunition?
Although protesters they weren't carrying guns; whatever weapons they have are probably picked up off the street. Doesn't mean they couldn't hurt of kill theoretically.
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RIPLEY: But was the use of force proportionate? The United Kingdom put out a statement saying they do not believe it was but Hong Kong police are saying they absolutely think the use of force was proportionate.
There undoubtedly will be investigation, the protest movement could really be energized by this or it could have a chilling effect and warn people to try to keep their distance, a safe distance from armed police officers.
Although, based on what I have been seeing and hearing on the ground, Rosemary, I highly doubt that, I think there are some protesters who had been expecting this kind of fight for quite some time, even said to us, they are ready to die for their cause because they feel they have nothing to lose, which is a really dangerous mindset when you're talking about young people who have so much passion, that are fighting for, that sometimes, they perhaps get caught up in the moment, you have instances like this.
3what if next time somebody is killed?
CHURCH: Indeed it's a real worry, there are some problems here and they need to find solutions. Will Ripley, with the latest from the streets of Hong Kong many thanks
The British prime minister is expected to reveal his Brexit plan in just a few hours, in a bid for unity, he's working the crowd at his party's conference.
Plus the Duchess of Sussex sues a British tabloid and her husband Prince Harry slams the newspaper for ruthlessly attacking his wife, more that on the lawsuit ahead.
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CHURCH: Reuters reports in just a few hours, Britain's prime minister is to reveal his Brexit plan to his Conservative Party conference. Irish broadcaster RTE reported Britain would set up customs clearance centers on both sides of the Irish border to avoid checks at the border itself.
But "The Telegraph" reports Boris Johnson's proposal will leave Northern Ireland aligned with the European Union until 2025. Then, Belfast decides what to do.
For more on this, CNN's European affairs commentator, Dominic Thomas, joins us from Los Angeles.
Good to see you.
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Hi, Rosemary.
CHURCH: So prime minister Boris Johnson will soon reveal his Brexit plan but some details have already leaked out.
CHURCH: Reuters reports in just a few hours, Britain's prime minister is to reveal his Brexit plan to his Conservative Party conference. Irish broadcaster RTE reported Britain would set up customs clearance centers on both sides of the Irish border to avoid checks at the border itself. But "The Telegraph" reports Boris Johnson's proposal will leave Northern Ireland aligned with the European Union until 2025. Then, Belfast decides what to do.
CHURCH: We don't know which is right but according to the Irish broadcaster RTE, the prime minister's plans involves this customs clearance centers several miles from the Northern Ireland and Irish border, on both sides of the border, removing the biggest challenge, presumably, the backstop.
So how would that work?
How is that likely be received by his Conservative Party if indeed that's what he's planning to do?
He has denied it.
THOMAS: Well, the big task Johnson has ahead tomorrow, is just not to convince the Conservative Party because there is the general election as to whether or not he's going to be able to deliver Brexit to the Conservative Party.
And the Conservative Party conference is about getting Brexit done. This is what all the signs around the convention have been announcing and also he's got to try to convince people that he is actually, genuinely trying to get some kind a deal out of the European Union and this is not just one other, simple further step for him to blame the E.U. if this fails in the same way he blamed the Parliament and the U.K. courts.
If at any point of his speech, if he starts to sound like there is a threat to the Good Friday agreement or that somehow Northern Ireland will end up in a different alignment than Scotland, Wales or England or if there is a mention of some kind of timeframe or timeline, maybe all the way to 2025, which are the reasons why the European Union negotiated this question of the backstop, all these will be not only red lines but unacceptable to the Republic of Ireland.
And the Republic of Ireland will speak to the other, the remaining E.U. 26 to convince them this is unacceptable and they will be unwilling to strike a deal with Boris Johnson.
One last thing, even if, he was able to get some kind of deal from the European Union, the British Parliament has moved on from that, he has lost his majority, there is no appetite for supporting Boris Johnson in delivering some kind of Brexit.
What, ultimately what they want, is to make sure there will be a no- deal, come the 31st and ultimately there will be a general election held on the terms of those who currently control the Parliament.
CHURCH: So is your sense of what he might reveal when he announces this, do you think "The Telegraph" or "RT" are anywhere close to revealing in their supposed leaks what might be ahead?
THOMAS: I think they are because there's very little else one could even imagine him really coming up with. So many of the different scenarios have been rehearsed over the previous years.
And the fact remains if one is going to protect the Good Friday agreement and treat the island of Ireland in the same way as the remaining countries of the United Kingdom, it's actually physically impossible to do that, without there being some kind of border, put into place.
And that is ultimately going to be yet again, what plagues these Brexit negotiations, ultimately, as one goes down the road here, the only way to resolve this is to hold a referendum or general election, to determine and check the pulse of the people on this.
But if Boris Johnson starts talking about treating Northern Ireland differently, holding them in a single market or having something violating the terms of the backstop, it will not make its way through Parliament and therefore, whatever deal he brings back from the E.U. will not be palatable.
CHURCH: Of course you mention those dates, the Brexit deadline, October 31st; fast approaching. The E.U. for striking a deal less than three weeks away.
So how is Mr. Johnson going to figure this out?
How is the E.U. likely to respond to what appears to be old ideas?
THOMAS: Absolutely. And as far as the European Union is concerned, they negotiated in good faith, remember, there are 27 of them that are unambiguously united in supporting the current withdrawal agreement as it exists.
It is not in their interest to negotiate with what they see as essentially being a small Brexiteer group, that brought Johnson to power. They don't feel like automatically his vision of Brexit represents the will of the British people, so there is no incentive for them.
I think ultimately for Boris Johnson, this is where things get so complicated, even if the opposition or Parliament end up ousting him, paradoxically this could work in his favor. Not only he's trying to make it absolutely clear, it's the Conservative Party that stands for Brexit and he's willing to take it to a general election, but ultimately if, he was ousted and a caretaker government took over.
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THOMAS: And a caretaker government with Jeremy Corbyn, at the helm, in some ways you could argue, that's a dream scenario, because this divisive figure, will allow the Conservative Party to attack them, on the particular strategic points, ultimately, those that want Remain will leave the Labour, they will go to the Liberal Democrats, some of the softer conservatives will go toward them as well.
And the Conservative Party will emerge, paradoxically as I said, with the most number of votes so, Boris Johnson here, has very little to lose, and many people question just how genuine, he and his Brexiteer cabinet are, as they talk about going back to the European Union.
CHURCH: Right, we'll see what's revealed in the coming hours. We seem to be running around in circles with this, but maybe there is a turning point just around the corner, we will wait and see, Dominic, thank you very much for your analysis, appreciate it.
THOMAS: Thank you Rosemary.
CHURCH: A royal battle could be brewing in British court, the Duchess of Sussex is suing "The Mail" on Sunday, for publishing a private letter and her husband, Prince Harry, accuses the paper of editing that letter to hide so-called lies "The Mail" had told about the duchess.
He's also calling out British tabloids for bullying his wife and compares it to his mother's treatment by the media.
He writes, "Unfortunately, my wife has become one of the latest victims of a British tabloid press that wages campaigns against individuals with no thought to the consequences, a ruthless campaign that has escalated over the past year throughout her pregnancy and while raising our newborn son."
"The Mail" newspaper has responded, saying, quote, "'The Mail' on Sunday stands behind the story it published and will be defending this case vigorously. Specifically, we categorically deny that the duchess' letter was edited in any way that changed its meaning."
A jury in Dallas has convicted a white ex-policewoman of murder in the shooting death of her black neighbor. Amber Guyger shot and killed Botham Jean when she walked into his apartment. She said she had just come off a long shift and mistook his apartment for her own. A lawyer for the victim's family says , the verdict is a victory.
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BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: This verdict today is for them.
Everybody can raise their hand.
This verdict is for them.
This verdict is for them.
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CHURCH: A jury is to hear from character witnesses before recommending a sentence, CNN's Ed Lavandera has more now from Dallas.
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ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amber Guyger freely walked into this Dallas County courthouse on Tuesday but she is now spending her first night in jail, after a Dallas jury convicted her of the most serious crime. She faced the jury convicted her of murder and now the former Dallas
police officer faces between anywhere between five years and life in prison.
The sentencing phase of this trial started just moments after the verdict was read. Prosecutors put on the witness stand Botham Jean's mother ,who testified about what a hole in her life this tragedy has left and she highlighted the philanthropic efforts and the charity work her son was involved in in his community.
Prosecutors also showed rather offensive social media posts and text messages that Amber Guyger will have to answer for if she decides to testify on her own behalf.
The defense begins its part of the sentencing phase on Wednesday. We anticipate and we will probably hear from Amber Guyger, as she tries to minimize the amount of time she spends in prison. She's facing anywhere between five years and life in prison -- Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
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CHURCH: With talk of impeachment in the United States, Ukraine's president is under pressure to say if he was under pressure.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you feel pressure from President Trump to investigate the Bidens in order to unfreeze military aid?
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CHURCH: His answer, when we come back, plus a new report on what Donald Trump wanted to do, to stop migrants, from crossing the border into the United States and the snakes and alligators are not even the most serious part, back with that in a moment.
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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rosemary Church. I want to check the headlines for you this hour. The Inspector General of the U.S. State Department wants an urgent briefing on Ukraine with congressional staff. Sources tells CNN they'll meet in the coming hours. This comes, as Secretary of State Mike Pompeo faces a subpoena from House Democrats in the impeachment inquiry into the U.S. President. Both sides accused the other of witness intimidation.
Protesters shot by police in Hong Kong is hospitalized in stable condition. It happened during a violent day of clashes on Tuesday. Police say the man was arrested for assaulting an officer. This is the first time in months of protests that police have used live ammunition. A day after agreeing to resume nuclear talks with the United States,
North Korea has testified another missile. A U.S. officially tells CNN, it was launched from an underwater platform Wednesday. We are told the missile is designed to be fired from a submarine.
The sharp exchange of words between U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Democrats is a preview of what's expected to be a bitter struggle between Congress and the White House during the impeachment inquiry. And as developments unfold, more of President Trump's allies are becoming caught up in the scandal. Tom Foreman has more on that.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is clearly unhappy about being caught up in the web of scandal around that phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky in which Trump asked Zelensky to help investigate Joe Biden, his Democratic rival and Biden's son. Now, Pompeo for days acted as if he really didn't know anything about this phone call except what he was being told. But we now know he was one of about a dozen people who were actually on that call, that he did not want the transcript to be released. And we also know that White House lawyers subsequently locked that transcript up in this classified computer file normally reserved for state secrets.
Now, he's not alone in his concerns about all of this. U.S. Attorney William Barr has also been roped in, in part because Trump told the Ukrainians they should work with him on this investigation of the Biden's, even though there is no evidence the Biden's did anything wrong. We also know that the President asked some foreign governments including Australia to work with Barr on investigating the origins of the Russia probe that gave the White House so much trouble.
The President's Personal attorney Rudy Giuliani is caught up in all of this because the President wants Ukrainians to work with him to on investigating Biden, and some of the Ukrainians have now told CNN, Yes, when they spoke to Giuliani, he wanted dirt on Biden, it was very clear. He's now been subpoenaed by Congress, along with some of the records. And then, there is the Vice President Mike Pence, who told the Ukrainians you got to root out corruption in the middle of all this, but we now know that that means to Donald Trump going after Joe Biden and what he might have done wrong.
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He insists that the President has done nothing improper in all of this, even though all of this occurred while the White House was spending millions of dollars in aid to Ukraine. So, you can see how all of these people, all tied to the President have now also been tied to this scandal to this one questionable phone call. And it's also clear that all of them would have preferred that it stay secret.
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CHURCH: And Meantime, Ukraine's President wants to avoid being caught in a U.S. political scandal, but at this point, he may not have a choice. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward has more now from Kiev.
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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: President Zelensky did not want to have to answer questions today about the political turmoil in the U.S. and its connection to his country. He started out that press conference by saying that he would only be talking about the events taking place in Eastern Ukraine, but it didn't take long before he was asked by several American reporters about the political situation, and that infamous phone call with President Donald Trump. Take a listen to what he had to say to me.
Did you feel pressure from President Trump to investigate the Bidens in order to unfreeze military?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I understood. I'd like to tell you that I never feel pressure. I have lots of people who'd like to put pressure on me here and abroad, but I'm the President of an independent Ukraine, and I'd like to think and my actions suggest, no one can put pressure on me.
WARD: Zelensky clearly a little bit evasive with that answer, saying, no one can pressure me, which is quite different than saying, no one did pressure me. That would be a much more definitive way of answering that question. But clearly, what President Zelensky wants to underscore is that Ukraine cannot get involved in the U.S.'s domestic political turmoil. It cannot be seen to be picking sides because Ukraine is far too dependent on the U.S. for aid, 400 million U.S. dollars in military aid this year alone. It cannot be seen to be partisan. Zelensky was also asked about whether he has ever had any dealings with the President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and he was unequivocal in his answer. Take a listen.
ZELENSKY: I've never met Rudy Giuliani, never. I never had any phone calls with him.
WARD: Important to remember, though, that it was in fact, Zelensky and not President Trump, who actually brought Giuliani up in the summary of that now-infamous conversation between the two world leaders. Zelensky said that his assistant had spoken to Giuliani that he was hoping Giuliani would come and visit Ukraine. That obviously never transpired. But what is clear is that this situation is not going away, and the questions are only going to keep on coming for President Zelensky. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kiev.
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CHURCH: And now to a shocking report from the New York Times about the lengths Donald Trump was willing to go to stop migrants from crossing the border from Mexico into the United States. The Times reports back in March, Mr. Trump suggested Border Patrol agents should shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. The paper also says the President spoke frequently about fortifying the border with a water- filled trench stocked with snakes and alligators. CNN spoke with The Times reporters who are also CNN Political Analysts.
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JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The conversation about shooting migrants in the legs came -- you may remember after he suggested publicly that if migrants threw rocks at border patrol agents who were there across the border that they should treat it as a rifle, and essentially, shoot to kill. He was quickly told by his staff that is not legal. We can't use lethal force unless we're defending ourselves. And so, instead of dropping the idea, he was so desperate to try to figure out some way of holding people back that he then pretty seriously raised the question of, well, could -- what if we just shot them in a nonlethal way, just to slow them down, just to deter them. He was really looking for ways to slow people down, to stop them from coming, to deter them from even trying.
And I think importantly, the people that we spoke to, really told us that it was hard to tell when he was serious about some of these things. He did keep asking about a trench filled with water. He would raise these possibilities of having snakes or alligators or other sorts countermeasures as part of that, and they never really knew is he musing? Is he just angry, or is this really something that we need to seriously consider?
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MICHAEL SHEAR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the big picture here is that from before he became president, he was obsessed with the idea of stopping migrants from entering. And he's been frustrated at every step of the way, partly by logistics and practicality. Some of these things are just not practical. But also by his own staff. And the frustration that built over the first 2-1/2 years of the administration was as much with the people around him who were raising the practical problems.
No, Mr. President, it would cost three times more. No, Mr. President, it's not practical. All of this led him to get rid of the people around him. I mean, ultimately, the week that we document in the paper today ends with him firing Kirstjen Nielsen, who was his Homeland Security Secretary in, you know, over a very tumultuous and troubled sort of year and a half or so. But he did that with a lot of other people, too. It was because they didn't want to -- because some of them challenge internally what he wanted to do and that frustrated him.
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CHURCH: The report sites more than a dozen White House and administration officials with direct knowledge of the President's conversation. We'll take a short break here. One year later, tributes are pouring in for murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi, but are officials any closer to getting justice for him, that is next. Plus, CNN is back in the Bahamas. A month after Hurricane Dorian wiped out parts of the island nation, when we return, one man's heartbreaking story of life lost in that storm.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHURCH: Well now to a somber anniversary, Jamal Khashoggi was
murdered one year ago today. The Washington Post is remembering its columnist with a collection of op-eds. But there's still no justice for the journalist. Earlier this week, Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince, the man the CIA believes personally ordered the killing, said he took full responsibility for what happened, but once again, denied he was personally involved. A U.N. official though says she has evidence to the contrary. Take a listen.
[02:44:54]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AGNES CALLAMARD, SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR, OFFICE OF THE UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: Implicitly, it recognizes that this was a state killing. That this was a murder for which the state is responsible to the extent that he is the state. That he is a quasi- head of the state.
This is something I have been asking for on the basis of my findings for the last three months. The crown prince takes great pain, distancing himself, creating barriers and layers of peoples and institution between the killing and himself. And that distancing for me is not backed by the evidence that I have provided in my report.
The relationship between those that perpetrated the killing and the crown prince are close enough -- far closer, in fact, than he is prepared to recognize it. And in -- and in his statement, he still fails to recognize his personal responsibilities. All he is doing is what -- corporate actors, head of state typically do to move away from the focus.
He is claiming some high-level responsibilities but refuses to acknowledge his personal liability for the killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: And CNN's Jomana Karadsheh joins us now live from Istanbul.
So, Jomana, it's been one year since Jamal Khashoggi walked into that Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Are officials any closer to getting justice?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, a year on it doesn't seem that we are any closer to justice, to accountability. You know, one year on from this brutal murder that really stunned the world.
There's so many questions that remain unanswered. Some key questions like, who ordered the killing of Jamal Khashoggi? Where are his remains? And we've heard this so many times from Turkish officials. A few days ago, your -- President Erdogan in an opinion piece in The Washington Post vowing to continue the pursuit of justice.
But, if you look at the criminal investigations that took place into the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, Rosemary, you had the Turkish investigation that pretty much reached a dead end.
You know, they shared what they had, the audio recordings of the killing, the CCTV footage and everything else they had with the international community, with intelligence agencies. But they say what they needed is access to those who are accused of the killing to the suspects who are in Saudi Arabia.
They requested the extradition that is something that Saudi Arabia said will never happen. And then, you have the criminal investigation that was taking place in Saudi Arabia, a trial that has been going on over the past few months.
But this trial, Rosemary, has been shrouded in mystery. There have been so many questions raised about the credibility of that judicial process that is taking place. You heard from Agnes Callamard, the special rapporteur for the United Nations on extrajudicial killings and executions, saying that, that process really lacks transparency and credibility.
She also, as someone who investigated the killing, the only international investigation into the killing of Khashoggi has called for further investigation, as you heard from her earlier into the role of the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
Although the crown prince has denied ordering it, denied involvement, she said that there are indications that there should be further investigation, and that is something they do not think that Saudi Arabia will be able to do.
So, one year on, it does seem that justice is elusive. And you know, Rosemary, in a few hours, friends of Jamal Khashoggi, activists from this region, officials, and his fiancee, Hatice Cengiz, who was outside this consulate with him a year ago when he went in to try and get papers that would allow them to get married that ended in his killing.
These people will be gathered out here for a memorial service they say to commemorate, to celebrate his life. And they're describing this event as a moment of unsilenced because they say that the killers of Jamal Khashoggi wanted silence. Rosemary.
CHURCH: Indeed. Remembering Jamal Khashoggi one year on since his murder. Jomana Karadsheh bringing us that live report from Istanbul, many thanks.
Well, next on CNN, a deadly bridge collapse in Taiwan caught on camera. What could have caused this to happen?
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[02:51:13]
CHURCH: In Taiwan, dramatic video of a bridge collapse just an oil tanker was crossing at the time it was sent crashing into the water. The bridge and truck crushed fishing boats that were beneath the bridge. At least, four people were killed. Rescuers are searching for two people who were missing.
The company that manages the bridge says it was regularly checked and maintained and it was reinforced last year.
Well, it has been one month since Hurricane Dorian hit the Bahamas killing, at least, 56 people. More than 600 are missing and for survivors, the pain and suffering are still sinking in.
Survivors like Howard Armstrong, who first spoke to CNN after he'd been rescued. He watched his wife die in front of him trying and failing to save her. Here's CNN's Patrick Oppmann, with an update on Armstrong's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD ARMSTRONG, SURVIVOR, HURRICANE DORIAN: The porch was still here. But that went that night. Obviously, it was probably the worst part of the storm as the night came on me.
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A month after Hurricane Dorian rained hell down on the Bahamas, survivor, Howard Armstrong, shows us what remains of his home, his island, his life.
ARMSTRONG: I'm hanging on this tree up there. Right there. And they were all pounding, pounding, it was -- it was just terrible, and I --
That's the bathroom, bedroom there, and a bedroom here. She was laying floating, and I checked her out, she died on me.
OPPMANN: Dorian hit Grand Bahama and the Abaco Islands with 200 mile- an-hour gusts, and a storm surge over 20 feet high.
When we first met Howard, he had just been rescued by jet ski. He had just seen his wife Lynn die in front of him.
ARMSTRONG: My poor little wife got hypothermia and she was standing on top of the kitchen cabinets until they disintegrated. And then I kept with her and then she just drowned on me.
OPPMANN: I'm so sorry.
ARMSTRONG: I know. We got a --
OPPMANN: Like thousands of Bahamians, Howard was left homeless by Dorian. Only after weeks of searching, did we managed to track him down.
ARMSTRONG: They just popped right out. She was giving up on it.
OPPMANN: He shows us the cabinets he and Lynn climbed on top of to escape the rising waters. Everywhere you look, there are fragments of their old life.
One of Lynn's diaries in the yard, her cross hanging from a tree branch. The glasses, she glasses she lost in the storm.
ARMSTRONG: I'll have to keep those. She couldn't see. See how thick they are?
OPPMANN: Howard can't find Lynn, her body. The storm carried her away.
From what you've told me, you did everything you could to save your wife's life. But you say you feel guilty.
ARMSTRONG: Well, I feel guilty I left her body and didn't take it with me. Otherwise, I would have had her to bury.
OPPMANN: But how could have you? You barely made it yourself.
ARMSTRONG: Well, that's the whole thing. I didn't get to do it.
OPPMANN: The are the scars that Dorian left on the landscape here, and then there are the scars that Dorian left on the people. As of now, there were 56 deaths caused by the storm. A month later, there are still over 600 people who can't be located. The Bahamian prime minister tells me, many of the missing will never be found.
HUBERT MINNIS, PRIME MINISTER, BAHAMAS: Many would be washed out to sea. And it's not unusual that this type of disaster you may find remains deposit at various different locations, even on different islands. We expect that may happen.
[02:55:10]
OPPMANN: 30 days later, and more aid is finally arriving. Power and water are slowly being restored, but places like Marsh Harbor are still a wasteland. Debris is everywhere even underwater.
Some residents tell us that things actually feel worse now a month later. So much of the foliage here has died. You look around, and you don't see many people. It really feels quite abandoned. And there is the growing realization for those that left that they may have nothing to return to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are (INAUDIBLE).
OPPMANN: Bahamians say they will rebuild Abaco and come to deliver clothing from other islands.
Latanya Miller had to evacuate by helicopter after her home was destroyed.
LATANYA MILLER, HURRICANE DORIAN SURVIVOR: We are strong, resilient. We are praying people. So, it's going to take some time. It will take some time because the island have to -- it have to clean up. We going to build stronger, better Abaco.
OPPMANN: For some, hope is a rare commodity here these days. Harder to find than a truckload of ice-cold water. Many like Howard Armstrong are forever haunted by what they have lost.
ARMSTRONG: I've had these thoughts in the night. One night I was up, and I couldn't even turn the lights out, even when I closed my eyes. I said, well, why didn't I just go with her? And then (INAUDIBLE) I wouldn't have to worry about any of this or any damn thing.
OPPMANN: We're glad you're here, though.
ARMSTRONG: Well, I know. But what's going to happen now? Because what am I going to do now? You know, I mean, yes, with the life goes on. But this is the life I lived, and I never get to do this again in my time.
And you know my wife's gone. My partner, my love, and -- you know.
OPPMANN: The Bahamas will rebuild, tourists will return, the nightmare will fade. Yet many that faced the true fury of this storm will never be whole.
ARMSTRONG: She kept everything. I'm lost without her. Trust me, I'm lost. That's it, man. Let's get out of here.
OPPMANN: Patrick Oppmann, CNN, on Grand Bahama Island.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Story of lost hope there. And thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. Remember to connect with me anytime on Twitter. And we have more news coming up with Christina Macfarlane in London. You're watching CNN.
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