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President Donald Trump Attacked Senator Mitt Romney; President Donald Trump Discrediting The Whistleblower; Senator Bernie Sanders Is Out Of The Hospital; How Past Presidents Stared Down The Barrel Of Impeachment; Voters Weigh In On Impeachment In Split Georgia District; New Episode Of "This Is Life" With Lisa Ling Premieres Sunday Night At 10:00 P.M. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 05, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:18]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And here is where we begin. Fail to support the President and he will come after you. That is the crystal clear message today as the President lashes out one of the few. I mean, count them on one hand Republicans who dared to criticize him.

These words from the President. Somebody please wake up Mitt Romney and tell him that my conversation with the Ukrainian President was a congenial and very appropriate. One and my statement on China pertained to corruption, not politics. If Mitt worked this hard on Obama, he could have won. Sadly, he choked.

In a second tweet the President goes on to launched other prude insults but I wont repeat here but you can read them there in your screen. His attacks follow Romney calling the President's appeal to China and Ukraine quote "wrong and appalling."

So what else may have set the President off today? Last night House Democrats kicked their impeachment investigation up a notch by slapping the White House with a subpoena and asking vice president Mike Pence to turnover relevant documents as well.

Democrats have already subpoenaed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. Now Pompeo has already missed a deadline to turn over documents.

On top of this, the President may have a second whistleblower on his hands. According to "The New York Times," an intelligence official with more direct knowledge of the President's dealings with Ukraine is considering filing a complaint.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is outside the White House for us.

Jeremy, are the White House and vice president Pence spending the weekend gathering documents or do they plan to fight this?

JEREMEY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Ana, if passes prolog, then certainly this White House is going to take a combative approach to this impeachment inquiry and to the subpoena so far.

Yes, the White House released that transcript of the call between President Trump and Ukraine. But we have seen them time again stonewall House Democratic inquiries subpoenas in the past as well. And now, the two statements that we received from the White House, press secretary and also press secretary for the vice president didn't indicate exactly what route this White House intends to take as it relates to these subpoenas.

But we have seen the state department miss that deadline yesterday to provide documents to the House committees leading the impeachment inquiry. And of course, we know that the President and the White House have been drafting a letter to the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, saying that they are not compelled to comply with document request unless they take a formal vote on the House floor to launch this impeachment inquiry which has been precedent in the past.

But so far, House speaker Nancy Pelosi has said that there is no requirement in the constitution for her to take that step in order for this to be an impeachment inquiry. The President did say on Friday that he intended to send a letter to the speaker of the House. We are still waiting for that to actually go out. As for her part, Nancy Pelosi is saying that they may or may not take that vote, but they are certainly not going to do it at the request of the President -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

I want to bring now "Washington Post" Congressional Reporter, Rachael Bade and "Politico's" Chief Washington Correspondent, Ryan Lizza.

And guys, Nancy Pelosi was asked about a potential House vote on an impeachment inquiry, and here's what she told the "Atlanta Journal Constitution."

I quote, "if we want to do it, we will do it. If we don't, we won't. But we are certainly not going to do it because of the President. There's nothing anyplace that says that we should. However, the people who are most afraid of a vote on the floor are the Republicans. That's why they are beating their tom toms like they want it, but they don't. They have the most to be p concerned about because for some of their members to say that we shouldn't go forward with this is a bad vote."

Rachael, what is really going on here?

RACHAEL BADE, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: It is funny. She is definitely trying to divert the attention and put it back on the Republicans to say that they don't want this vote and she is totally fine with it. I mean, to be honest here, I mean, I have covering the impeachment inquiry up on the Hill for several months now and their investigations for months.

Pelosi didn't want to have this vote because she didn't want her moderate voters to have to vote on it. This was back before, you know, he had backed an impeachment investigation, before she put, you know, her full weight behind this effort. And there was a lot of concerned moderates who worried about blowback in their districts where there are Trump supporters. Some of them come from districts that Trump won in 2016.

Now, I do think that has changed since this Ukraine controversy erupted and now she as got something like 225 Democrats including a lot of Democrats from these Trump districts who back the impeachment.

So I think she could do that. I don't she she's worried now. She was for awhile very clearly. But, you know, it might look sort of silly for her to say, OK, we have to do this now, now that the President is sort of trolling her.

CABRERA: But would the GOP be risking anything by having to actually take a vote on it?

[15:05:04] BADE: Yes. I mean, that certainly could put them in a bind. We are seeing the narrative slightly shift. It used to be that Democrats were very concerned about their moderates on impeachment. And that they would feel the political heat and the political blowback.

Now we are starting to see people point to moderate Republicans and say, you are silent on this? Are you going to say it is really OK for the leader of your party to be asking a foreign country to infringe in our elections in 2020? So now we are starting to see Republicans on the hot seat here.

CABRERA: Ryan, I want to ask you about the President's crude attacks against senator Mitt Romney. Romney criticized the President. We read it earlier. Bu so has senator Ben Sasse, also congressman Will Hurd. So why is the President, really, just targeting Romney specifically?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, Romney has been the most prominent Republican in the Senate to criticize him. And you know, unlike Sasse who has done a little bit more work in keeping his head down and not criticizing Trump in the last year as he worries about his own politics back home and sort of really frankly patched things up with Trump and come under criticism from a lot of never Trump Republicans and a lot of Democrats for, you know, avoiding the full-throated criticism that Sasse used to express.

Romney is not quite in that same place. He has always been a bit of a thorn in the side of Trump. And I think Trump also knows that Romney is independent. He won with 63 percent of the vote in 2018. He is not up for re-election until 2024. So he frankly has more leeway than a lot of Republicans who don't speak out against Trump because they are afraid of, you know, domestic political considerations in their district or state. So I think that's what explains the difference there.

CABRERA: I mean, there really have been very few Republicans criticizing the President.

LIZZA: Very few. CABRERA: We just listed all of them. Most have been silent. Others

are getting creative you could say in their defense of President Trump. Here is senator Marco Rubio on President Trump publicly asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I don't think it is a real request. I think, again, he did it to gig you guys. I think he did it to provoke you to ask me and others and get outraged by it. Like I said, I mean, he plays it like a violin and every falls right into it. That's not a real request.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: He later tweeted this. Before we nullify the results of an election or dismiss some very serious accusations as an attempted coup, maybe it would be a good idea to gather all of the facts and then give some thought to what would be in the best interest of our country. I don't know. Just a thought.

And Rachael, we are waiting to get some clarity from Rubio's office, but what is your reaction to his comments?

BADE: Oh man, it's so awkward and he is very clearly uncomfortable when talking about this, right. I mean, I think that until we see the full shift with Republicans who are very much behind the President, you are going to see the lawmakers do this sort awkward dance where they are very clearly uncomfortable with what's going on but instead they are trying to change the narrative. Say oh, Trump is trying to get your goad. He wasn't serious.

I had a lot of Republicans on the Hill say to me that they hadn't seen his comments about asking China so also investigate Joe Biden. And you know, that was also sort of frankly laughable given it was all over the headlines. They just didn't want to talk about it.

CABRERA: Yes, selective hearing. Selective vision perhaps. Go ahead, Ryan.

LIZZA: I think that tweet is significant. He is basically remaining open-minded, you know. In the video you show and in the tweet, he is not willing as some Republicans have been to basically say what Trump did was OK. If you look at people like Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows in the House that are just full-throated defense of any action, they are basically saying, you know, Trump was -- he was just, you know, investigating corruption. It was all about this anti-corruption campaign.

Rubio is definitely not saying that. He is open minded right now. And it seems to me, at least, if I would reading that tweet correctly, he is willing to see where the facts go and where this investigation goes rather than just being knee-jerk defending the President.

I think that's a potential bad sign for Donald Trump if a prominent senator like Marco Rubio who is in a pretty pro-Trump state and has always been very cautious about any criticism if he is suggesting that, one, all the facts aren't in, so let's wait, and, two, this isn't a coup as some Republicans are calling it.

CABRERA: And Ryan, we really could be at the tip of the iceberg here. We don't know. But just think about everything we have learned in the last week. And now we have "The New York Times" reporting. There is a second whistleblower who is considering filing a complaint. This person is said to have more direct knowledge of the President's dealing with Ukraine. Could that change the Republicans' calculus?

[15:10:03]

LIZZA: Look, this goes back to what Rubio said. I think that the more that comes out, the more evidence that has built, the more potential you have to change the minds of Republicans. You know, the way Democrats should be looking at this is as a prosecutor with a jury that right now is not even close to two-thirds of the majority they need, the juries in the Senate.

And they should be crafting their arguments if they are serious about this. If they genuinely believe that he should be removed from office, they should be crafting their case with a lot more evidence than is out there right now. Because no matter what you think, if you think the evidence right now suggest he should be impeached or removed, a lot of Republicans don't believe that. And that is your eventual jury.

CABRERA: And, Rachael, in what world do Democrats win over 20 Republican senators in order to get an impeachment conviction should it end up there?

BADE: Again, it's going to go back to the polls. And I just think that it is striking that we see when Rubio doesn't come out and say, look, totally side with the President and say, look, this is a witch hunt. He is totally fine. Everything is good and perfect. That that is considered oh, that could be a problem for the President.

I mean, you would think someone like Rubio, who has long-time foreign policy expertise, somebody who has always, you know, talked about democracy. And you know, somebody who would say it's not OK for the President to call a foreign official and say they should investigate a political adversary, you would think he would do that.

But I just think that this really shows how much Trump still is controlling this party. And it's going to take a lot more for from what Republicans to come out and come onboard with this.

CABRERA: We are going to be talking more about the polls as we move forward because we are seeing a shift in the polls with more people now supporting impeachment than not supporting impeachment, although not quite majority of the country yet.

Ryan Lizza and Rachael Bade, I appreciate both of you. Thank you so much for being here.

LIZZA: Thanks, Ana. BADE: Thank you.

CABRERA: A new report in the "Washington Post" describes President Trump's phone calls with foreign leaders as a quote "anxiety-ridden set of events for his staff." What we are learning about conversations and promises he may have made.

Plus, former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director, Leon Panetta is going to join us on Trump's attacks, on the whistleblower, and why he thinks the law will eventually catch up with the President.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:54] CABRERA: With President Trump's Ukraine call of the center of the impeachment inquiry, there's new reporting that suggests he engaged in surprising phone contact with other world leaders. Conversations that a former White House official says left senior staffers quote "genuinely horrified."

Sources tell "the Washington Post" that the President was fawning over Russian president Vladimir Putin when they spoke barely a week after inauguration. And the Post says the President clashed with then British prime minister Theresa May last year because her intel community was certain that Putin ordered the poisoning of a former Russian spy in England which President Trump doubt.

And in 2017 the Post says President Trump praised the leader of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte for his quote "unbelievable job on the drug problem." That praise coming after years of claims that Duterte ordered the extrajudicial killings of thousands of suspected drug dealers.

Now this week, it's what Trump said in front of TV cameras and microphones that may have raised the stakes of this impeachment inquiry battle when he appeared to invite China to meddle in the U.S. election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China should start an investigation in the Bidens because what happened to China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine. So I would say that President Zelensky, if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining me now, Former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director under President Obama, Leon Panetta.

Secretary Panetta, so much to get to but here is where we begin. The President of the United States is not only doubling down on asking Ukraine to investigate a political rival, but he is also now invited China, one of the U.S. adversaries to do the same. Do you believe that undermines U.S. standing in the world? LEON PANETTA, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know,

it is -- every day it brings something that is appalling as senator Romney himself stated. This is -- this is a point at which I think the President has really gone beyond anything that anyone would imagine when he is deliberately again and openly violating law by asking a foreign country to investigate a political opponent.

But then when he goes to China, an adversary, communist country, and one that we are involved in a serious trade war right now to ask them to now investigate a political opponent, I think is an example of a President who simply does not understand what the rule of law is all about.

CABRERA: You mentioned earlier how the President keeps on attacking the whistleblower who filed the complaint about his call with Ukraine. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The whistleblower wrote not that conversation. He wrote a vicious conversation. In other words, he either got it totally wrong, made it up, or the person giving the information to the whistleblower was dishonest. And this country has to find out who that person was, because that person is a spy in my opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Secretary Panetta, are you afraid for the whistle-blower?

PANETTA: Oh, I don't think there's any question that the President of the United States is trying to intimidate the whistleblower here by his language, by what he Is saying, calling him a spy. And I really do think it violates the whistleblower law itself because the President now is trying to intimidate someone who Is trying to bring forward what that person views as a violation that took place.

The other thing that strikes me as strange is that the President tries to sometimes confuse the transcript and the whistleblower complaint. The reality is the transcript speaks for itself. Whatever the President thinks about that transcript, when he released it. That is probably the clearest evidence of the fact that this President was trying to convince a foreign leader to get involved in an investigation of a political opponent. And in the context of that transcript, talking about military aid, talking about those issues, and then having the President say there's a favor I need to ask of you, that combination is pretty devastating in terms of proving on the violation of a federal law.

[15:20:49] CABRERA: And yet there was a Monmouth poll this week that showed only four in ten Republicans actually believed Trump mentioned investigating Biden on that call even though the President himself fully acknowledged it and it's plane as day as you say in the rough transcript released by the White House.

So Mr. Secretary, the idea that many of his reporters have this knee- jerk reaction to just mistrust anything about him that could be negative, does that speak to how successful this President has been on waging the war on facts?

PANETTA: You know, I think what I'm seeing is kind of a -- what I would call even a Bonnie & Clyde strategy here where, you know, the more you violate the law, the more you rob banks, the more you kind of become a folk hero to those that supports you and you diminish the importance of the law.

But the bottom line is that, you know, whether you oppose or support this President, I think all of us as Americans know that we have to enforce the laws in this country. We cannot just stand back and ignore the violation of the law. And ultimately the law will catch up with this President just like it's caught up with others who thought they could get away with violating the law.

CABRERA: You were once the chief of staff to President Clinton. And I remember you told me you thought Clinton had more than paid the price for Monica Lewinsky because the shadow of impeachment would forever hang over his presidency. So if Trump were impeached but not removed from office, given the GOP control the Senate would have to conveyed (ph), do think that's punishment enough?

PANETTA: I think it's important for the Congress to take the steps that are necessary to hold a President accountable. That's what our forefathers intended. Our forefathers put the impeachment clause in because Hamilton and Madison were very worried that presidency in the United States might very well try to co-op foreign governments into interfering with our democracy.

They were worried about that. And that's the issue that's involved here. So they have got to proceed do what they believe is right under the constitution. And ultimately whatever the Senate does, I think it is correct for the House and the Senate to proceed with the enforcement tools provided by the constitution in order to determine whether or not a President should be impeached. That is what everybody needs to focus on now.

Yes, there's be a time when they will have to vote on this issue as they have in the past. And those senators will then have to respond to their constituents as to why they voted the way they did. But I think going through this process is necessary for the American people and for our dedication to making clear for the rest of the world that we believe in our constitution.

CABRERA: Former Secretary Leon Panetta, thank you very much for joining us.

PANETTA: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:17]

CABRERA: Senator Bernie Sanders all smiles and waves this weekend, now out of the hospital. The 78-year-old candidate for president is traveling back to Vermont today to continue his recovery, there you see him. And this is according to his campaign spokesman who also confirmed that Sanders suffered a heart attack last week.

Let's turn to CNN's Ryan Nobles.

And Ryan, Sanders says he is feeling better and raring to get back on the campaign trail, but does this throw a new light on his health and his age? Are people concerned?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't think there's any doubt about it, Ana. The issue of Bernie being 78-year-old candidate for president already had a backdrop and issue for voters. It's in the back of their minds to begin with. When you add a heart attack into the mix, that just complicates even more for Sanders.

But Sanders is a candidate known for his endurance despite his age. And he is vowing to his supporters that he is going to be back on the campaign trail very soon. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, everybody. We are in Las Vegas. I just got out of the hospital a few hours ago, and I'm feeling so much better. I just want to thank all of you for the love and warm wishes that you sent to me. See you soon on the campaign trail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And I'm told that Bernie does feel much better after having those two stents put in the artery to resolve the partial blockage that led to that heart attack. And he has been itching to get back on the campaign trail. We don't know how soon that is going to come. We only know for sure that he is committed to participate in the CNN/"New York Times" on October 15th. Otherwise his campaign moves on as normal. They are going to relaunch a $1.3 million ad buy in Iowa on Tuesday. He has surrogates crisscrossing the early state this weekend.

Ana, we don't know if he could resume the campaign earlier than that October 15th date. We know for now he is back in Burlington. He is going to rest, recuperate and just take some time to assess the situation before deciding when he's going to get back after it. But when he does, his campaign promises it will be full bore.

CABRERA: OK. Well, we're glad to see him feeling better and certainly wish him all the best.

Ryan Nobles, thank you for that update.

Coming up, a look back at how past presidents have stared down the barrel of impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People ought to know whether or not their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Nixon during Watergate, Clinton during Lewinsky, two presidents, two famous declarations, and one strategy, deny, deny, deny.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIXON: I have never obstructed justice. And I think, too, that I can say that in my years of public life that I welcome this kind of examination because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. I've earned everything that I've got.

[15:35:03]

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time, never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We know what happened next. Nixon lost his presidency. Clinton was impeached because they lied, fearful that the truth would undermine the office.

Fast forward to today, we're seeing a much different strategy from another president in crisis: Just say what you did out loud, double down, don't apologize, and then maybe people will think, well, how bad could it really be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was nothing done wrong. It was perfect.

The conversation was perfect. It couldn't have been nicer.

I think you should ask -- actually, that was the second conversation. I think you should ask for the first conversation also.

This is about corruption. And if you look and you read our Constitution and many other things, I have an obligation to look at corruption. I have an actual obligation and a duty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Everything is perfect, he said, except maybe the newest impeachment polling, and it shows Americans are more eager to impeach Trump now than they were at similar points in the Nixon and Clinton impeachment sagas.

Tim Naftali is a CNN presidential historian and former director of the Nixon Presidential Library.

Tim, as always, it's good to see you, especially to put these things in context.

Here we go. Everyone knows Nixon's, "I am not a crook," line. I heard you say this week Trump publicly is saying Ukraine and China should investigate Biden, is essentially saying, I am a crook. Where does that put us?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it shows -- first of all, it's been President Trump's approach since he was a candidate, which is to immunize the public about his amorality and his approach to the office of the president.

Richard Nixon was a student of the presidency. He loved history. And he had a vision of what Americans and what he expected of a president. Now, he fell short of that. He didn't want the public to know the gap between what he thought they expected from a president and the reality of Richard Nixon.

So when the public began to realize the difference between the real Richard Nixon and the ideal president, it really undermined his credibility with the public.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, Donald Trump says, what you see is what you get, and by saying -- you know, Richard Nixon said, Americans, you don't want a crook as your president, I am not a crook. Donald Trump is saying, Americans, you understand me. You know what I do. You know the enemies I'm fighting. I am corrupt, but you don't really care, do you, because what's more important to you is I stay in office.

These are fundamentally different approaches not only to the defense, defense against an impeachment inquiry, but they're different visions of the presidency.

Donald Trump has, from the start, reworked the presidency so it's all about him. Richard Nixon, for all his flaws, knew that the presidency preceded him and would continue after him and he realized he needed to live up publicly to a certain standard.

President Trump has pulled the standard of the presidency down to his level and he thinks it's OK and that his supporters will think it's OK.

CABRERA: When you talk about the public and how they view all of this, these are different presidents and different times, and the impact on our society, on culture, American life could be different, too.

I want to get your take on this analysis that Ron Brownstein wrote for CNN.com. He writes, "If impeachment of the president is always a match, today, it's dropping into a much larger pool of gasoline than it did under Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton."

Do you agree?

NAFTALI: I think one thing that -- we're reached a point, an inflection point in our history. It's not about Donald Trump. It's about the presidency.

Donald Trump's argument is, everybody cheats, all institutions are political, nothing is fair. And people who play by the rules are suckers. If people absorb that and make it the way in which they lead their lives, it's anarchy.

And future presidents are going to feel, Republican or Democratic, that they can do whatever they want and get caught.

And what I would ask every American as the evidence comes out, first of all, wait for it to come out, absorb it and ask yourself the question, if a president you did not vote for acted this way, would you be satisfied.

Because a lot of Americans are willing to let a president get away with things because they voted for them. But if you think of the long term and the corrosive effects of letting presidents break rules, sacrifice our national security for their own political gain, that is harmful.

[15:40:14]

And you have to ask yourself, am I letting them do it because I dislike them. Ask yourself whether you want your children to live under a president 25 years from now who does that.

CABRERA: Maybe people are starting to ask themselves that question --

NAFTALI: Maybe.

CABRERA: -- because we're seeing a turn when it comes to public support of impeachment. If you look at the latest CNN poll, in fact, 47 percent now support impeachment, 45 percent don't at this point. There's more who support it than those who don't. Back in 1998 and you think how this is different from Bill Clinton's impeachment process, it never reached above 29 percent in supporting impeachment.

NAFTALI: Sure. In fact, Republicans lost seats in the 1998 midterm election. Normally, the midterm election in the second term of a presidency is bad for the White House. But Bill Clinton was a popular president and he actually -- his party, the Democrats, gained seats in the 1998.

The reason the Republicans pushed against Clinton was a decision by the House Republicans, totally partisan, very different from the impeachment procedure in 1973/1974.

And that's one reason why I think older Democratic leaders were very reluctant to get involved in impeachment again because, for them, impeachment was a totally partisan process that hurt the party that lead it.

CABRERA: How do you see the immediate environment impacting the impeachment process, particularly the conservative and right-wing media outlets like FOX News? Are they insulating the president? Do they have much of an impact? NAFTALI: I'm a teacher by nature. And one of the things you want

citizens to do is to learn but not necessarily to follow what you say they should do, but for them to be open to all forms of information.

People who only go into one ecosystem, a conservative ecosystem, an ecosystem that -- I shouldn't say conservative because that's not fair. A lot of conservatives are asking good questions about presidential power.

CABRERA: Good point.

NAFTALI: The Trumpist ecosystem. Those people are getting reinforced messaging about the defense of the president. What's necessary for all Americans is to look at all data and come to their own conclusions.

If you get stuck in one ecosystem, you're never really free. You're never that free citizen that the founders wanted you to be.

Remember, the founders hated parties. Our Constitution was built and designed not for a country with parties. They didn't like the idea that people would be stuck in one. They didn't think in terms of information flows we now understand. But they were worried about our not having access to ideas. They loved debate.

Our citizens today should want debate and should not be satisfied with hearing one side.

CABRERA: And presenting information is our job to let viewers make their own judgments on what that information means.

NAFTALI: Yes.

CABRERA: Tim Naftali, thanks for providing perspective and context to this.

NAFTALI: Thank you.

CABRERA: Thank you for being with us.

Almost every House Democrat has expressed support for the impeachment inquiry into President Trump, but one of the holdouts represents a divided district in Georgia. So how do voters there see the impeachment fight? We'll ask some next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:19]

CABRERA: Nearly every Democrat in the House of Representatives wants some kind of impeachment action either inquiring or calling for removal from office. One freshman Democrat in Georgia was not in the first wave of lawmakers supporting an impeachment inquiry.

Congresswoman Lucy McBath now represents a district that used to be so red it was held by Newt Gingrich and Tom Price. McBath now officially supports an impeachment inquiry.

CNN spent this morning talking to Republican voters in that very divided district outside Atlanta.

Here's Natasha Chen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many of you are tired about hearing about impeachment?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A room full of Republicans raised their hand in agreement at this monthly Cobb County GOP breakfast. They're in a district outside Atlanta, once represented by House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who led the charge in the impeachment inquiry against President Bill Clinton in 1998, and whose daughter Jackie Cushman was a featured speaker this morning.

JACKIE CUSHMAN, DAUGHTER OF NEWT GINGRICH: I'm really concerned about polarization in the country.

CHEN: But this is not the Georgia sixth from the days Gingrich was in Congress.

(CHEERING)

CHEN: The district lines have been redrawn and demographics have changed. Democrat Lucy McBath won a tight race last November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEILA BROWER, PRESIDENT-ELECT, COB COUNTY REPUBLICAN WOMEN: I don't really understand what happened so we're trying to get that resolved.

CHEN: The Republican base believes the impeachment inquiry is a sham.

(on camera): You feel it's OK to ask foreign governments for help in our elections?

PAT GARTLAND, CHAIRMAN, ATLANTA VIETNAM VETERAN'S BUSINESS ASSOCIATION: Well, hey, what did he ask for? He wanted to know about a criminal act.

CHEN (voice-over): And they feel like it's work in their favor to take back the district.

BROWER: I feel like it's helpful. I feel like people are mad. People are sick of this.

CHEN: Cobb County Democrats made available copies of the Mueller report and a transcript of the phone call between President Trump and the president of Ukraine at their booth at a local fair.

They old us giving access to the primary source material is the best avenue, given peoples' mistrust of partisan spin, and that these documents speak for themselves in supporting a more thorough inquiry. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: And Natasha Chen joins us now.

What are you hearing now from the representative?

CHEN: Ana, we're talking to Lucy McBath's team. She was not available for an interview.

We did talk to some voters in Cobb County who were not at this GOP breakfast. They tell me they feel differently. They say they're seeing the president live on television admitting what he said to the Ukraine president and they're seeing the White House releasing this phone transcript that they feel corroborates the whistleblower's complaint, and they say, how could you not pursue an impeachment inquiry.

So now we're talking about their representative, Democrat Lucy McBath. She offered this statement.

She said, "As I have continued to say from the beginning, the Judiciary Committee's investigation has always been to find the facts for the American people. I voted to formalize the impeachment inquiry process on September 12 and continue to support the responsibility of this Congress to uncover the truth and defend the Constitution."

[15:50:12]

So, Ana, she's being very careful here. We're going to see how this plays out as she is up for re-election next year in this extremely divided district.

CABRERA: OK, Natasha, we see a lot of these Congress members back in their districts, and they're being challenged on their positions.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Thank you for that report.

In the city of Chicago, more than 2,000 people have been shot this year. Tired of seeing news reports about the ongoing violence in her city, this week's "CNN Hero" had an idea. What if she helped people regain a sense of community, one block at a time? Meet Robin Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN CARROLL, CNN HERO: I started coming out to the community. The lots were all empty. The houses were getting boarded up. People were not coming outside.

I stood on the corner and just asked anyone that walked by, are you interested in taking back your community. And everyone said absolutely, yes.

We are really brave space and courageous space.

We're going to work there.

We will work through all of what is holding you back to becoming the person and the potential that you have to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: To see how they've transformed the block from surviving to thriving and to learn more about Robin's incredible work, go to CNNheroes.com.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:05]

CABRERA: In a new episode of "This Is Life" with Lisa Ling, Lisa looks at the world of benzodiazepine and uncovers the troubling threat these drugs pose when used long-term and the challenges facing patients who try to quit.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA LING, CNN HOST, "THIS IS LIFE": This is micro-tapering, and it looks like something out of high school chemistry. Portioning out the correct amount of medication over four daily doses, while cutting back 1/100 of a milligram each day.

(on camera): My, god, this seems like such a daunting process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This way of tapering has helped me lose my symptoms.

LING: How do you track your taper?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I keep a record in this notebook. I started here, July 30th of 2017.

LING: I see you've written "hold" a number of times on some of these pages. What does that mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My symptoms were escalating, and to feel safe, I just would not make a cut in my dose that day.

LING: Is there any room for error in this at all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: None, no. Really, to me, it's a life-or-death mistake. I just don't want to go back to that place again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Catch the all-new episode Sunday night 10:00 Eastern and Pacific here on CNN. Now, after President Trump urges two foreign powers to look into one

of his 2020 rivals, there's been a deafening silence from many Republicans on Capitol Hill. We'll take a look at the fault line within the party, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)