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Pelosi: Protecting Whistleblowers "Is Absolutely Essential"; Could Romney Crack Trump's GOP Wall Of Support?; China To Blackout NBA Pre-season Games Over Hong Kong Tweet. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired October 08, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:30:38]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: With President Trump demanding to know the identity of the whistleblower, he claims he deserves to meet his accuser. A whistleblower the president claims was spying on him may face "big consequences" for coming forward.
Sources say Democrats are considering extreme measures to protect the whistleblower's identify and safety if the person testifies before Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I prepare to write the laws to protect whistleblowers and establish the Office of Director of National Intelligence only since 2004. I know what the purpose is, intent of Congress.
The Intelligence Community respects the role of whistleblowers. We all do in government. But in intelligence, protecting the whistleblower is absolutely essential so there's no retribution for speaking truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Among the steps currently being considered, off-site location, limit Capitol Hill staff and members present, disguise the whistleblower's image and voice and use secure facilities.
Jonathan Wackrow is a former Secret Service agent under President Obama.
And, Jonathan, pleasure as always.
You spent your career protecting people. Talk about protecting this whistleblower. Right now presumably the whistleblower is still in his or her job and hiding in plain sight?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Hopefully, hiding in plain sight, keeping their identity as the whistleblower hidden. I hope a security, passive, at least, security system around that individual, that in the event their identity gets disclosed we can scale up physical security around that individual to protect them and their family.
Right now, what you have to look at is the threat environment. What are the threats that face this individual? You know, the president's calling for, you know, this identity to be disclosed to face his accuser.
BALDWIN: What's the end goal here? It's not to provide -- stop information from getting out. The report was already provided. The information is already out there.
So now that changes sort of the threat against this individual. Because what are you going to do, the paradigm, what's the end goal of that? Is it to, you know, destroy their reputation? Typically, under a traditional whistleblower case, you protect and ask them, from retribution in the workplace.
We are beyond that.
(CROSSTALK)
WACKROW: This is about physical protection. I'm worried about the moment that this individual gets disclosed, their personal property, their family, everybody, becomes a target of opportunity --
BALDWIN: Sure.
WACKROW: -- for people transcending political rhetoric into a call to arms or a call to physical harm. That's the potential. That changes the way we need to protect this individual.
BALDWIN: When you hear about unprecedented measures perhaps taking this individual to an off-site secure location or disguising his or her voice, what would that entail?
WACKROW: Three parts to it. What you're talking about is in the moment this individual needs to provide verbal testimony, there's a lot of different ways that you can use audio devices to mask and change the tone of their voice. So it's unrecognizable. You can put them behind screens. Put them blurred. Seen that time and time again.
And it's commonplace actually on Capitol Hill. They have the Intelligence Comm closed door meetings all the time. Somebody needs to mask their identity may provide testimony. So this is common.
I'm concerned about, how do you get the person there?
BALDWIN: Physically -- get the person --
(CROSSTALK)
WACKROW: Physically get them there to the point they're getting that testimony.
Then they give the testimony. Now what happens? They don't just walk out the front door of Capitol Hill and say that's over. It just begins for them at that point because the hunt for their identity isn't going to end especially with the amount of information this person presumably has.
BALDWIN: If it's one whistleblower, or two, or perhaps multiple, that only compound the security issues for everyone involved. I could keep talking,
WACKROW: It's the new normal, Brooke.
BALDWIN: It is, I suppose.
Jonathan Wackrow, I have a feeling I'll see you again. Thank you very much --
WACKROW: -- for your incredible expertise.
[14:35:04]
Coming up, there's something about Mitt Romney. The unique position the Senator from Utah is in, criticizing President Trump about repercussions. The question, can he sway other Republicans to do the same?
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BALDWIN: Mitt Romney is one of the few Republicans willing to openly criticize President Trump and surfacing as the one Republican most likely to crack what often appears to be Trump's wall of support.
[14:40:03]
Senator Romney has been a thorn in the president's side and frequent target of Trump's Twitter scorn. And the president called for Romney's impeachment even though a Senator can't be impeached.
But this kind of tweet is what Republicans fear most, a Trump rebuke that could scatter their base.
To be clear, Senator Romney may have a couple things working in his favor. Not actually up for re-election until 2024 and, two, in this home state of Utah more popular when you look at the numbers than the president.
Kevin Sheridan was a senior adviser to Romney during his run for president.
Kevin, welcome back. Nice to see you.
KEVIN SHERIDAN, ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Good to see you.
BALDWIN: Of all of the Republicans who are not saying a word, why do you think it is Senator Mitt Romney who is?
SHERIDAN: It's not much new. Right? Seen him going back to 2016 be critical of President Trump. They made up. They had dinner. Then, now, as he ran for Senator in Utah, Donald Trump endorsed him and they've had a working relationship.
It seems, though, when he sees an opportunity or a necessity to speak out, he's not afraid to speak out.
And I think you're right. In Utah, he has a unique position among all Republicans that the state of Utah, his home state supports him more than the president of the United States.
BALDWIN: Trump, yes.
SHERIDAN: But they're both still broadly popular in Utah.
That said, yes, I think you'll see him speak out when he wants to speak out and support him when he supports him.
BALDWIN: Let me read a quote from Gabe Sherman's "Vanity Fair" piece, quote, "Romney is the one guy who could bring along Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, Ben Sasse, says a Mitt confidant."
Do you think Mitt Romney has power to sway other Republicans?
SHERIDAN: I think for those other Republican Senators you mentioned the facts are really going to have to be more than we've seen so far to get them to come across. I just don't --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: More than the president standing in the White House lawn saying, hey, China, you want to investigate my political opponent?
SHERIDAN: And real pushback from the Senate here, I think when half the Republican Senate will probably speak out or has spoken out and may actually get a resolution, disapproval or something along policy lines, but on this issue, until we know a lot more, that looks much worse for the president, I don't see those members coming across the line yet.
BALDWIN: OK. Depends who you ask? Right? As far as whether it looks bad for the president or not.
Ask the American people, look at the new "Washington Post"/George Mason University poll out, 58 percent endorse opening of the House impeachment inquiry, 49 percent say the House should take a more significant step impeaching him, calling for his removal.
If Republicans start losing public support, will that, then, shift the ground?
SHERIDAN: It will, but we'll see where the facts lead.
And I will say, with Adam Schiff running this inquiry in the House in the way they've been doing it, you know, I think that causes problems for Democrats with Independent voters and with people in the middle who have seen these games now three years and they think it's based in the fact that Democrats do not like this president, they do not accept the results of the 2016 election, and they want him out of office. If Trump provides them with enough facts to go forward to the Senate,
and see if it gets much worse from here, then maybe things change. At this point I don't see Republicans abandoning ship in big numbers at this point.
BALDWIN: Sure. But you're right. It is all eyes and a lot of pressure on Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi and how they move this ball forward in the eyes of Republicans rightfully so.
Kevin Sheridan, thank you very much. Nice to see you.
SHERIDAN: Great to see you.
BALDWIN: And do not forget. The fourth Democratic president's debate is coming to CNN live from the battleground state of Ohio. The CNN and "New York Times" Democratic presidential debate is next Tuesday night October 15th at 8:00 eastern.
[14:44:12]
Coming up, China ups the ante in this international crisis with the NBA by taking two pre-season games off the air. The commissioner is setting the record straight on where the league stands on free speech, but is it too late? We discuss.
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BALDWIN: The NBA standing up for free speech and behind Houston Rockets general manager, Daryl Morey. And 24 hours ago, the league initially said it regretted this tweet from Daryl Morey, a photo with caption, "Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong."
That post really angered the Chinese government days before hosting a pair of pre-season games between the Lakers and Nets. And now China plans to black out those games.
NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, said the league is ready and willing to take the hit because, quote, "As an American-based company those morals and values travel with them."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM SILVER, NBA COMMISSIONER: We are not apologizing for Daryl exercising his freedom of expression. I regret, again, having communicated directly with many friends in China, that so many people are upset, including millions and millions of our fans.
[14:50:17]
I understand that there are consequences from that exercise of, in essence, his freedom of speech, and, know, we will have to live with those consequences.
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BALDWIN: Here's how China responded to CNN with a statement: "It's not going to work if you want to have exchanges in cooperation with China, but don't understand Chinese public opinion."
L.Z. Granderson, ESPN host, sports and culture columnist for the "L.A. Times," is with me.
L.Z., a pleasure.
You wrote this piece in "The Times" called "The NBA put money first and rights second in the China controversy."
I have a little idea of how you're feeling about this. But, you know, Silver, he made the NBA position on free speech clear. Yes, it took him 24 hours to get there, but he got there. What do you think how he handled it?
L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I appreciate the position that he's in. Look, this has been a relationship the NBA and China that's been groomed before, Silver became commissioner. Started way back in the late '80s into the '90s. The first NBA finals game was broadcast in 1994.
This relationship, this partnership is decades in the making and he doesn't want to say or do anything to screw it up because there are multimillion dollars involved.
With that said, you weren't leading woke sports. leading issues that affect your bottom line go back to sleep. We'll call you out on hypocrisy and that's happening now.
Adam Silver released a statement the first time around but called out on it and made a decision to say something stronger defending freedom of speech and it was the right thing to do, he lands in China tomorrow, going to meet with government officials.
Talk about woke being still asleep. How much of the asleep, how much should he be asleep, how much should he be willing to sacrifice for business?
The interesting thing about this dynamic it's not just the NBA's money. NBA is a collection of teams owned by many, many millionaires and billionaires with multi businesses. The question is, how much of the portfolio of the individual owners is based upon China business.
While Adam Silver willing to take a hit for his league, the ownership may not in their own personal finances. When Steve Kerr, who's the coach of the Golden State Warriors, says it's a complicated issue and decides to side-step it in his public statement, he's doing so it's not just about baseball here.
BALDWIN: What about the players? So many of them are front and center on social justice issues. Look at Lebron, supposed to be playing in Shanghai. Call him a social justice warrior. How has he handled it? He'll be asked.
GRANDERSON: He's going to be and should be asked because he's positioned himself as you said, a sort of social justice warrior. Here's the thing about being a social justice warrior. It's really
easy to do it when the sacrifice is minimum. Now comes the real test. People like to talk about Ali and they like to quote Ali but don't like to acknowledge the fact Ali suffered that he was more than just great quotes and comical zip, you know, one-liners. He suffered on his path to greatness.
In order to be a true social justice warrior there will be suffering, true sacrifice. It's not just about Lebron James. James Harden is popular. Kobe Bryant is very popular in China. China has been a pipeline for a lot of NBA players in latter stages of their careers.
So it's going to be interesting to see how many of these players who are very willing to speak out in the comfort of their multimillion dollar homes risk losing money because they sell their shoes, jerseys and what have you.
BALDWIN: Last question. Do you think, though, there's a benefit to have this, you know, connection with China that, you know, an American presence in a country such as this and our American values perhaps seep into the culture? How we roll?
GRANDERSON: It's an exchange. This is what, not just the NBA is dealing with but American culture in general. Yes, we are exporting a certain degree of freedom of expression.
But we also are importing Communist censorship. That is, there's only going to be so much of our freedom in which China allows in.
If you want to do business with them consider citizenship of our own. It's an exchange, not a one-way street here.
BALDWIN: L.Z. Granderson, you wise man. Thank you for your opinion. Good to have you back. Thank you.
GRANDERSON: Thanks, Brooke.
[14:55:03]
BALDWIN: Breaking news. CNN is learning the White House has reached out to outside lawyers for impeachment counsel.
And also breaking right now, details about those chaotic moments right after that call between the president of the United States and the president of Ukraine.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
[14:59:54]
We are all over this breaking news out of Capitol Hill this afternoon where House Democrats say they will issue a subpoena for the E.U. ambassador and Trump inauguration donor, Gordon Sondland, after the White House blocked him this morning from testifying before the House Intelligence Committee.
