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Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NY) Discusses Trump Blasting GOP's Graham's Syrian Action Critique, Turkey's Offensive Against Kurds; New Frontrunner Warren under Attack from Rivals at Debate; WAPO: Giuliani Pressured Trump to Extradite Fethullah Gulen Who Turkey's Erdogan Accuses of Staging Coup Attempt; Photo of Kim Jong-Un on Horse on Scared Mountain Could Preage Big Announcement; SDNY Investigates Giuliani for "Influence Operation" on Trump. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 16, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NY): -- opening it up, giving the green light to Erdogan and Turkey to come in and invade. And now we're getting reports that ISIS fighters who were being detained by the Kurds are on the loose.

This poses a real threat to our homeland. Our first job as government is to keep our citizens safe. And we have to be able to partner with allies wherever we need to do counter terrorism and keep our homeland safe.

The president of the United States, on a whim, gave Turkey the green light, and now the White House has almost no leverage, in fact, no leverage to convince Erdogan to Change course and withdraw.

This is really, really serious, and it poses a real threat to our national security.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: The president today, Senator, says this has nothing to do with us. And just left me wondering if he believes that to be true, then why send -- why are Secretary Pompeo and Vice President Pence going to Turkey to meet with Erdogan?

HASSAN: I can't speak to the president's state of mind. Only he knows what influences him. But if he believes that the fight we are making against ISIS has nothing to do with us, he is woefully misinformed or just living in another world.

And to your point, he just did send the vice president and the secretary of state, to Turkey. He certainly, in doing that, must understand that there are national security implications there for us.

Again, this is -- the president's responsibility to try now to fix, because what he did, acting on impulse, acting on whim, is undoing decades of American foreign policy and some progress.

When I was in Afghanistan -- first of all, I just have to say the men and women of the United States military are doing their very best with professionalism and skill and commitment and dedication to help the Afghanistan forces become self-sufficient and fight this fight in Afghanistan on their own.

In Pakistan, we went to tell the Pakistani leaders to end their support of the Taliban, and to have the president really ignore the realities on the ground there, it's very, very troubling.

BOLDUAN: What about, we talked a lot about Russia. You've talked a lot about Russia. Right? What they've done in terms of interfering with the 2016 presidential election, why the president never seems to criticize Vladimir Putin.

So when talking today about Russia filling the vacuum in northern Syria, left by the withdrawal of U.S. forces, this is what the president said, quote, "I say, "Welcome to it."

"Welcome to it," Senator. Why does the president always seem to side with Putin?

HASSAN: That is a very good question. And all I know is that the president of the United States took Vladimir Putin's words over our Intelligence Community when it came to the first reports that we were dealing with about interference in the 2016 elections. He seems to give Vladimir Putin the benefit of the doubt time and time again.

You know, we had won the Cold War against Russia. And now we see an American president cozying up to Russia and undoing so much of the work we've done. Nobody should think that the United States will be safer if Russia is in control of Syria.

BOLDUAN: Senator Maggie Hassan, thank you so much for your insight and also, of course, your words about our men and women in military who you visited in Afghanistan. Thank you so much.

HASSAN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: We have more breaking news. CNN is reporting the federal investigation involving Rudy Giuliani also involves a counterintelligence probe. Stand by for new details.

And Joe Biden is burning through cash, spending more than he raised last quarter, and he just responded to those concerns.

[14:34:13]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Senator Elizabeth Warren found herself in new territory last night during the CNN/"New York Times" debate. Those 12 candidates standing on that stage, but a newly minted frontrunner, in this Massachusetts Senator, who really came under attack after attack from her Democratic rivals. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "A.C. 360" & DEBATE MODERATOR: Just to clarify, Vice President, who are you saying is being vague?

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Senator -- she's being vague on the issue of, actually both vague on the issue of the -- the Medicare-for-All.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): Join me in saying the Twitter account --

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: -- should be shut down.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Let's figure out --

HARRIS: No?

WARREN: -- why it is that we have had laws on the book.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & SOUTH BEND MAYOR: We heard it tonight. A yes-or-no question that didn't get a yes or no answer. This is why people here in the Midwest are so frustrated with Washington in general and Capitol Hill in particular.

Your signature, Senator, is to have a plan for everything. Except this.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I appreciate Elizabeth's work but, again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Todd Graham is a debate director at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale.

And, Todd, good to see you again.

TODD GRAHAM, DEBATE DIRECTOR, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY, CARBONDALE: Thank you.

[14:40:03]

BOLDUAN: I mean, to me this was one of the most noteworthy parts of the night. Right? That incoming, a huge target on her back. Curious. Did you think those attacks were successful chipping away at Senator Warren exposing her have value vulnerabilities?

GRAHAM: I do. I think those attacks worked pretty well.

But it wasn't the attack but the answer Senator Warren gave.

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: This is one area where -- yes. This is one area I think that her intellect works against her. Senator Warren is smart. Everyone knows she's well researched and well-read and does have a plan for most things. For her, on a debate stage, it becomes even more obvious when she

simply is not answering the question. She's too smart. She understands the question. She's just not answering it. That's the problem.

BOLDUAN: What about Cory Booker? Senator Booker? Gone from questioning Joe Biden's fitness to now this over-the-top defense. This is Cory Booker the morning after the September 12th debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): There's a lot of moments where a number of us were looking on the stage when he tends to go on sometimes and at one point talking about people listening to record players, I don't remember the last time I saw a record player --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: They're back in, you know.

BOOKER: Vinyl is hot right now.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Just to let you know.

BOOKER: Maybe he's cooler than I am but definitely moments you listen to Joe Biden and you just wonder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You just wonder. That was then. Now let me play this for you. Senator Booker last night after Joe Biden was asked about his son, Hunter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOOKER: We are literally using Donald Trump's lies. And the second issue we cover on the stage is elevating a lie and attacking a statesman. So offensive. He should not have to defend himself. And the only person sitting at home and enjoying that was Donald Trump seeing we're distracting his malfeasance and selling out of his office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What's Cory Booker's strategy there, Todd?

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: Strategy, finally understood he's probably not going to win the election, just the statistics are against him. The strategy was to not make anyone mad but particularly not make any people mad who have a favorite already, Biden or anyone else.

Here's what he did that I like. I teach classes and debaters to have a conversational quality. You want it organized, a debate, want to be on point but want it to seem like a conversational. I felt Senator Booker had that conversational quality last night and it made him appealing.

BOLDUAN: Todd Graham, thank you very much.

GRAHAM: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: We'll talk again I'm sure after the next debate.

Moments from now, President Trump comes face-to-face with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as this impeachment inquiry speeds up. What he wants to say to her.

Plus, acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, what's his role in the Ukraine scandal? New details on the chief of staff and proof that a shadow operation has been going on for a while.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:48:24]

BOLDUAN: Ukraine not the only foreign policy the president's person attorney is stepping into. The "Washington Post" reports that Rudy Giuliani repeatedly urged President Trump to eject a Muslim cleric accused by Turkey of a coup attempt. The cleric in the U.S. since 1999. He lives in Pennsylvania. Follows the fate described as moderate pro-Western Sunni Islam.

"Washington Post" reporter, who covers the White House, Josh Dawsey, co-wrote the story about Giuliani and this cleric, and Josh is also a CNN political analyst.

Josh, think cleric is described as Giuliani's, quote/unquote, hobby horse? Explain that for us.

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So President Erdogan of Turkey wanted this cleric extradited. Rudy Giuliani went to the White House to ask the president to extra diet the cleric. The business was so pervasive and so frequent that it worried some around the president, who wondered if Rudy Giuliani was doing Turkey's bidding.

Giuliani was also at the time pushing to release of a gold trader who violated sanctions, allegedly, and that also troubled White House officials who wondered why Rudy Giuliani was so regularly pushing interests of President Erdogan of Turkey or things he would want to President Trump.

BOLDUAN: When he was going to President Trump and pressing him on this cleric, you know, having, wanting him to turn him over to Turkey, what Erdogan wants, how was Trump responding?

DAWSEY: The president was amenable to the idea. We talked to a number of officials saying the president considered Erdogan to be a friend and wanting to give Erdogan what he wanted.

[14:50:09]

But others in the White House at the time who said that he should not do it. It could violate the legal process, create political problems for him that a cleric would most certainly be endangered if not killed in Turkey. Fears in the White House about him doing it. And the president was eventually talked out of it.

BOLDUAN: Giuliani also told you he can't talk about conversations surrounding all of this because of attorney/client privilege. But he wasn't Trump's attorney at the time. What privilege would he be referring to?

DAWSEY: He would not say who his client was or why he was doing it. He previously said he represented a Turkish trader lobbying for him in the Oval Office for the president. He wouldn't say who is client was here.

Why it troubled folks in the White House, as I said, it's a desire Erdogan wanted, and the trader, Erdogan wanted him as well. Interests aligning on two major issues with what Erdogan wants.

BOLDUAN: Got it.

Josh Dawsey, thank you very much.

Now this, the picture of the day. Stop what you're doing and look at the TV or your phone, whatever it is, however you're watching. North Korea's Kim Jong-Un supporting a fur-lined coat, riding on a decorated white horse on a snow-covered mountain considered sacred to many North Koreans. North Korea claims that Kim personally rode this horse up this 9,000-foot-tall mountain -- propaganda much? Certainly staged.

It also evokes another strong man on horseback. Of course, who could forget this? Russia's Vladimir Putin back in 2009?

Silly as it all looks, experts say it could mean Kim is ready to make a big announcement amid a souring diplomacy with the United States.

Gordon Chang is with me now. He's the author of "Nuclear Showdown, North Korea Takes on the World." And he's a columnist for "The Daily Beast."

Gordon Chang, what's going on?

GORDON CHANG, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST & AUTHOR: I feel sorry for the horse. Ah.

(LAUGHTER)

We don't know exactly what's going on, but we do know that something big will occur because in the past not just with Kim Jong-Un, but with his father and grandfather. These horsebacks rides, they pre-staged something was going to happen.

The other thing, of course --

BOLDUAN: Whoa. Whoa. What's the something big?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: We have no idea: It could be --

CHANG: It could be walking away from new talks with the United States, or it could be directed towards South Korea, because South Korea has an important election coming up. Kim wants to help Moon Jae-in, the South Korean president.

Who knows what it's going on here. We know there's something in the works and probably are not going to like it.

BOLDUAN: Why is this a sacred place where he's riding said horse?

CHANG: It's said to be the place humanity was supposed to have started, certainly, the Korean nation was supposed to start. This is where his dad was supposed to have been born, and that's a legitimacy thing. He's born on this mountain. Like Mount Olympus only for the Koreans.

BOLDUAN: OK. You're saying because we know North Koreans broke off talks with the U.S. earlier in Sweden this month, the U.S. position didn't meet expectations. Do you think they will ever give up their nuclear weapons?

CHANGE: They don't want to, of course. But I think that the United States, if it were to use its economic leverage, could do this without the use of force, even without the threat of use of force. But we'd have to enforce sanctions against the Russians, Chinese and South Koreans and we haven't shown the will to do that.

Now, President Trump was actually, had an effective sanctions enforcement policy through the middle of May of last year and gave it up to be generous to Kim, and Kim hasn't reciprocated. American policy is in disarray because it's just not working. Kim gets everything he wants. We're getting nothing.

BOLDUAN: Gordon Chang, who feels sorry for the horse, thank you. I needed the laugh. Thank you very much, Gordon Chang.

[14:54:03]

More on our breaking news. CNN reports that the federal investigation involving Rudy Giuliani also involves a counterintelligence probe, which Asha Rangappa told us last hour shows Giuliani is being investigated as a potential national security risk. Stand by for this big development.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here. We begin with breaking details how long and how much federal

investigators have been looking into the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. This would be the second personal attorney of Donald Trump's to be under federal investigation for those of you keeping count.

The same Justice Department branch that prosecuted Trump's first attorney, Michael Cohen, is now looking into Rudy Giuliani. It's the Southern District of New York. They are investigating the possibility that Giuliani was used in what's being called an influence operation on the president.

So with me now, CNN crime and justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz. Also with us, Guy Smith. He was a special adviser to President Clinton during his impeachment, and so he knows a thing or two about this.

Good to have you on.

Shimon, starting with the counterintelligence probe, what's going on?

[15:00:01]

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, it's the FBI here in New York and other FBI agents certainly in other jurisdictions that have now been part of this group of agents that are looking into this influence operation --

[15:00:00]