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Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) is Interviewed on Issues around President Trump. Aired 9:30-10a
Aired October 18, 2019 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Ordering the remaining 1,000 U.S. troops out of northern Syria. This even after Turkey had launched a military offensive into the country, threatening America's allies on the ground. Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle slammed the move claiming the U.S. is abandoned Kurdish forces who helped the United States fight ISIS in the region.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: A day later, President Trump took executive action to impose sanctions against Turkish government leaders and then sent Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Turkey to try to broker a cease-fire. All of that unfolded. The Ukraine scandal was in front and center in Washington.
On Capitol Hill, sources tell CNN, Trump's former top Russia adviser, Fiona Hill, testified that Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, was pursuing a, quote, shadow foreign policy to benefit Trump. Meanwhile, "The Wall Street Journal" began reporting that federal investigators here in New York City are examining Rudy Giuliani's business dealings with Ukraine, as well as his bank records.
SCIUTTO: Stay with us. We're only on Tuesday.
Vice President Mike Pence said he was not turning over documents related to his role in the Ukraine scandal, and Rudy Giuliani said he did not plan to comply with House subpoenas either. Meanwhile, State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary George Kent testified under oath that a supervisor told him to lie low after he raised complaints, as others did, about Rudy Giuliani's personal efforts in Ukraine.
HARLOW: All right, we've made it to Wednesday.
So, on Wednesday, the House voted to condemn the president's decision to withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. By the way, with over 100 Republicans in the House joining in that chorus.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Just a little while later, top Democrats walked out of a White House meeting after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says President Trump had a, quote, meltdown that she believes was prompted by that vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): He was shaken up by it. And that's why we couldn't continue in the meeting because he was just not relating to the reality of it.
What we witnessed on the part of the president was a meltdown. Sad to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Even Senator Lindsey Graham, a close ally of President Trump, called the decision to remove U.S. troops from northern Syria, quote, the biggest mistake of Trump's presidency. That's significant.
As frustration mounted over the crisis in Syria, former State Department official Michael McKinley, he was testifying before Congress. A source familiar with the hearing says McKinley resigned, after 37 years, over frustration that career diplomats were being undermined. They weren't being backed up.
HARLOW: And then yesterday, acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney told a room full of journalists that aid to Ukraine was, in fact, tied to the president's wish for an investigation into the 2016 election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I have news for everybody. Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: A few hours later, Mulvaney walked back those comments amid reports that Trump's legal team was, quote, stunned and the president was frustrated by the briefing.
SCIUTTO: And, by the way, what they're talking about investigating the 2016 election is a conspiracy theory that somehow the Ukrainians have the DNC server. It's just not based in fact.
Earlier in the day, U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, broke with the president as he testified again under oath, before three House committees saying the president directed diplomats to work only with Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on Ukraine. Vice President Pence then announced that Turkey agreed to a cease-fire in Syria, a claim that Turkish officials challenge saying it was not a cease-fire, just a pause.
HARLOW: Five days, folks. Just this week, all of that happened. It's a lot to absorb, but it all matters. And we will stay on top of all of it right here.
SCIUTTO: Still to come, mocking remarks from former Defense Secretary James Mattis, laughing off reports that President Trump called him the world's most overrated general. He had some zingers to sling back. We'll hear from Mattis, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:38:53]
SCIUTTO: Over the past 24 hours, two high-profile retired members of the military have taken harsh jabs at the president. Retired Admiral William McRaven, the architect of the bin Laden raid, wrote a "New York Times" op-ed saying, our republic is under attack from the president. Think of that. That -- the significance, Poppy.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: I -- you know, in the midst of things.
HARLOW: Huge.
SCIUTTO: Can't be -- can't be missed.
HARLOW: You're completely right. And then, at a dinner in New York last night, former Secretary of Defense James Mattis mocked the president, laughing off reports that the president apparently called him the world's most overrated general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL JAMES MATTIS, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm not just an overrated general. I am the greatest, the world's most overrated.
And I'm honored to be considered that by Donald Trump because he also called Meryl Streep an overrated actress. So I guess I'm the Meryl Streep of generals.
I earned my spurs on the battlefield, Martin, as you pointed out, and Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor. So --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:40:01]
HARLOW: Let's talk about all of this because it really isn't a laughing matter, but sometimes, I suppose, there's nothing else you can do at moments.
Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, of course, of Massachusetts. He serves on the Armed Services Committee. He served four tours in the Marine Corps in Iraq.
Good morning, Congressman. Thank you for being here.
REP. SETH MOULTON, (D-MA): Good morning.
HARLOW: Obviously, as Jim said, we were very struck by the op-ed that admiral -- retired Admiral William McRaven wrote. Let's listen to a little bit of what he told our Jake Tapper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ADM. WILLIAM MCRAVEN (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS: You know, if you want to destroy an organization, any organization, you destroy it from within, you destroy it from without and then what you do is you convince everybody that you're doing the right thing. So when you take a look at what the president has done, he's undermined the intelligence community, the law enforcement community, the Department of Justice, the State Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: What do you make of what he said in this moment that the country finds itself in?
MOULTON: Well, he's absolutely right. And it shows that, you know, you don't have to be on the -- on the far left of the political spectrum to think that Donald Trump needs to go. It's one of the reasons why I've supported moving forward with an impeachment inquiry for a long time. But now the national security implications are front and center. And that's why you have people like Admiral McRaven speaking out. We haven't heard too much from Secretary Mattis yet. But I think we'll probably start hearing more. Maybe his joke was a sort of tease of more to come.
But it's clear that across the political spectrum people are finally finding the courage to stand up and say there's something more at stake than the future of Republican politics. It's the future of our republic.
SCIUTTO: OK. That said, the number of Republicans, as you know, who have publicly criticized this president are few and far between. And I do want to give credit to folks who have been willing to set aside politics and speak their minds. But, as you know, it's still an endangered species here.
I speak to Republicans who privately will say, listen, yes, he's doing great damage, but they have political calculations to make.
I just wonder, from your perch, because you have good relationships with many Republican members, some of them veterans like yourself, do you sense their mood changing at all or their willingness to come out and say, listen, he's gone too far this time?
MOULTON: I think the mood is changing a little bit, but their willingness to come out, I mean, as you said, Jim, we haven't seen much of it.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MOULTON: And I mean even people like Lindsey Graham, who are out there criticizing the president for betraying our Kurdish allies, he's still working to get him re-elected. He's still working to continue the Trump presidency, the Trump administration policies. So there's a lot of hypocrisy on the right for sure and not a lot of courage.
HARLOW: Speaking of General Mattis, on that point, Congressman, let's listen to a little bit more of what he said, harkening back to President Lincoln.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL JAMES MATTIS, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: No, Lincoln went on, it was not the foreign aggressor we must fear. It was corrosion from within. The rot (ph), the viciousness, the lassitude, the ignorance. Anarchy is one potential consequence of this. Another is the rise of an ambitious leader unfettered by conscience or precedent or decency who would make himself supreme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: On that front, as someone who has served multiple tours overseas, what does all of this do, not just domestically to the country, but what message does it send to our allies and perhaps, more importantly, our adversaries overseas, especially seeing what we just saw play out in Turkey yesterday?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MOULTON: It sends a message that America doesn't keep its word. That the values that we've always championed, that our country was founded upon, just don't seem to matter, at least not to this president. And that's an incredibly dangerous message for our allies across the globe, for our troops who are risking their lives every single day on the ground and many of whom now feel betrayed by their own commander in chief. And it's a dangerous message for our enemies.
You know, I served under General Mattis in the Marine Corps and our division motto was no better friend, no worse enemy than the United States Marines. That should be the motto of the United States. That means that our allies trust us and our enemies trust our resolve.
SCIUTTO: So when you look at the results on the ground of this withdrawal, Russia and Iran, frankly, moving in to fill the void. But also, and I think something that folks at home can relate to, if all those issues seem too distant, hundreds of ISIS fighters, terrorists freed now.
What -- what danger does that immediate consequence of this decision posed to people at home as they're watching?
MOULTON: I mean, look, I don't want to exaggerate it, but it's a real danger. We worked very hard. We lost lives putting these ISIS terrorists in prison. And now they're just running free.
[09:45:08]
And the beneficiaries of this absolutely are Russia. They're Iran. They're Erdogan in Turkey, who seems to be Putin's protege. And it's Assad.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MOULTON: You know, the butcher of Syria. The people who look bad are us and our allies. And this is going to have an effect, not just in the Middle East. It's going to have an effect on the Korean peninsula. Don't think Kim Jong-un isn't watching this and planning his next move against South Korea. Don't think Iran is not watching this and planning their next attack.
Sadly, I think we're going to see this, the implications of this, and the damage that it's done to our credibility across the globe play out sooner than later.
SCIUTTO: Those are sobering words.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: But there's no question they watch and listen.
Congressman Moulton, we appreciate your service and we appreciate your straight talk.
MOULTON: Thank you.
HARLOW: Thank you, Congressman.
We're going to take a quick break. We're back after this with much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:50:45]
HARLOW: All right, Mark Zuckerberg is on the road defending FaceBook amid a flurry of criticism over the decision to run false campaign ads on the platform. Last night in Washington, he said he will not restrict freedom of expression.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZUCKERBERG, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, FACEBOOK: We are at another crossroads. We can either continue to stand for free expression, understanding its messiness, but believing that the long journey towards greater progress requires confronting ideas that challenge us, or we can decide that the cost is simply too great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: But not every CEO in Silicon Valley sees it that way at all, including Salesforce founder and CEO Marc Benioff. I sat down with him this week for a wide-ranging discussion as he releases his new book "Trailblazer."
And not only does he calls out FaceBook, he calls out capitalism, saying, unequivocally, capitalism is dead. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Marc, you say capitalism as we know is dead. That's saying a lot coming from a billionaire who made his money through capitalism.
So, why did it die and when did it die?
MARC BENIOFF, FOUNDER, CHAIRMAN AND CO-CEO, SALESFORCE: We do need a new capitalism. Capitalism is dead. We need a new, more sustainable, a more equitable, more fair capitalism. And that means it's a capitalism built on stakeholders, not just shareholders.
By the way, the government can have a role here. They can ask companies, probably in the SEC reporting --
HARLOW: Yes.
BENIOFF: To not only deliver your numbers, but what about your stakeholder results.
HARLOW: Bernie Sanders, he was asked if he thought billionaires should exist in the United States, and he said, quote, I hope the day comes when they don't.
You're a billionaire. Should they exist?
BENIOFF: I certainly think that people should pay more tax -- income taxes at higher levels. And are those tax rates fair today? I don't think they are.
HARLOW: So what should your wealth, your capital gains wealth, for example, be taxed at? What's fair, 50, 60, 70 percent, Marc.
BENIOFF: Well, I think you can look at the traditional tax rates I think actually have been quite fair. And if you look at global tax rates and where other countries tax the superrich, that's, I think, those are fair rates. So you can look at those numbers.
HARLOW: Seventy percent in France.
BENIOFF: You can look at different countries. That's the most extreme.
HARLOW: But you'd pay it, you're saying?
BENIOFF: Well, I think that we -- we should have the conversation.
HARLOW: Fair enough.
A wealth tax. This was talked about on the debate stage quite a lot this week. Do you think a wealth fax is the solution? Elizabeth Warren says it is.
BENIOFF: Well, I'm looking for more systemic change. I'm not looking for transactional solutions. I think transactional solutions are a mistake. Things that are surgical I think are actually inappropriate and will exacerbate the problem.
I think we should be looking for ways to actually create a new capitalism. I want to have an approach based on all stakeholders. My responsibility isn't just to the shareholders in the company, but to all of those stakeholders.
HARLOW: Breaking up big tech. It's a popular line on the campaign trail. We heard it on the debate stage. Do you support it?
BENIOFF: FaceBook is the new cigarettes. We've talked about this before. It's addictive. It's not good for you. They're after your kids. They're running political ads that aren't true. They're giving your data to tens of thousands of organization without your knowledge. And they're also acquiring other companies and commingling their data into theirs. And I think at that point, because they're now doing that, that they probably should be broken up, because they're --
HARLOW: How does breaking it up fix that?
BENIOFF: They're creating undue influence as the largest social media platform on the planet.
HARLOW: They're response, we've heard Mark Zuckerberg and leadership there say is, if you break us up, you just make us less powerful to combat, election interference and what was done in the 2016 election.
Is that a salient argument?
BENIOFF: No, it's not because what really the narrative is, is trust is our highest priority. Why they can't say that trust is our highest value is beyond me.
HARLOW: Right now, on FaceBook, on YouTube, on Twitter is a false Trump campaign ad that is running with no false things that it says about Joe Biden, et cetera.
[09:55:00]
FaceBook says they're following FCC law that applies to broadcasters. And, frankly, there's no regulation for them in their ads. They're not a broadcaster. But they say sort of we're following the law as we know it.
Are they making the right call?
BENIOFF: This is why I think Congress is trying to act to create truth in advertising. I think this is extremely important in the age of social media. Because they have the information of who those persuadables are. And those various political organizations are targeting those groups. That's the insight from the 2016 election. It's a very vulnerable moment right now.
HARLOW: Would you run these ads if you were running FaceBook?
BENIOFF: No.
HARLOW: No question about it?
BENIOFF: No question.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Pretty clear there.
You can hear that full conversation on my podcast this morning, "Boss Files."
We have a lot more ahead. Lots of headlines. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
