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Interview With John Kasich (R-OH); GOP Lawmakers Meet; Ocasio- Cortez Endorses Sanders; Johnson Requests Brexit Delay; British PM Boris Johnson Requests Brexit Delay; Revisiting Trump's Pledge To Be "So Presidential" It'll Be "Boring"; Hillary Clinton: Tulsi Gabbard Is A "Favorite" Of Russia. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 19, 2019 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And the Republican resistance to impeach President Trump is showing small cracks tonight. There are still no sitting GOP Congressmen calling for impeachment, but more leading voices in the party are sounding off against the president.

Florida Congressman Francis Rooney tells CNN that he would not rule out voting to impeach Trump, as he also reveals he will not run for re-election. And just a day ago, former Ohio Governor John Kasich told me this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KASICH (R), FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR: If you're asking me if I was sitting in the House of Representatives today, and you were to ask me, how do I feel? Do I think impeachment should move forward and should go for a full examination and a trial in the United States Senate, my vote would be, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Even Mitch McConnell is adding to the drumbeat. "The New York Times" reports that the Senate majority leader now believes an impeachment trial is inevitable.

All this is happening after a week of bombshells in and around the White House. With the biggest one blowing up what has been President Trump's prime defense in the Ukraine scandal, no quid pro quo. But Thursday acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney admitted there was.

Today, he's meeting with Republican lawmakers at Camp David, possibly facing the fire for having said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Did he also mention to me in the past that the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that. But that's it. And that's why we held up the money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you just described a quid pro quo. It is funding will not flow unless the investigation is a -- into the Democratic server happen as well.

MULVANEY: We do -- we do that all the time with foreign policy. I have news for everybody, get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: All right, let's talk about all this. Joining us now is CNN Political Commentator Tara Setmayer, a former Republican communications director on Capitol Hill. Also here, CNN Political Commentator Scott Jennings, who is a Columnist for "USA Today," and former advisor to President George W. Bush.

Scott, what do you think is happening at Camp David this weekend?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm sure some of the Republican lawmakers aren't very happy with the acting chief of staff's performance at the briefing podium. I read the president wasn't happy with it either. And it added fuel to this fire.

A lot of Republicans don't think the president exercised very good judgment in this phone call, but they were trying to put together some kind of a defense of it. And, of course, the chief of staff, then, went to the podium and made it -- made it much harder to defend it.

So, whether this behavior will be judged impeachable by Republicans, I doubt it. But that probably won't stop some from saying that it was bad judgment and they wish the president hadn't done it.

CABRERA: Tara, how much longer will Mick Mulvaney have a job at the White House? Or do you think he's safe, for now, since he's been subpoenaed for documents in the impeachment inquiry and Trump wouldn't want to mess with that?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think anyone is safe ever in this White House. You know, it wasn't that long ago when Rick Perry was allegedly not resigning and he said he wasn't going anywhere. And then, guess what? He resigned.

The acting DHS secretary resigned. I mean, people drop like flies with this administration because you never quite know what's coming around the corner with this president, because he's so erratic and irresponsible and lawless.

What's going on now is you can -- this is the first time that I've actually seen some cracks here with the Republicans. What they actually do about this remains to be seen.

But between Syria and this ridiculous, unbelievably irresponsible decision to pull our troops there, allowing our Kurdish allies to get slaughtered. This -- you know, the issue with the -- with many people now coming forward and defying the State Department and the White House. And doing their civic duty and testifying and telling the truth about this whole cabal around Ukraine and Rudy Giuliani.

And now, Mick Mulvaney basically admitting the quid pro quo, which everyone knew from the beginning. Republicans are saying, what -- how are we going to defend this now? You have the Doral issue, too. We're not going to -- how are we going to defend the president bringing the G7 to his own golf club? Republicans are sick of it.

As more and more retire, you also have the freedom to speak freely which is what Congressman Rooney just did. And I just think there is fatigue with the Republicans here in Washington. They just really want this to be over with. They're -- it's difficult for them to defend.

CABRERA: Sure. But, at the same time, you're not seeing people publicly, like, threaten the president that they're going to jump ship.

SETMAYER: Not yet.

CABRERA: And not publicly speaking out against all of this in a way that could signal they may vote for impeachment. In fact, the president is getting even more bold, in some ways, Scott. I want to show you this new t-shirt the Trump campaign is selling. Get over it is what Mick Mulvaney said at his news briefing, as we played, where he confirmed a quid pro quo on Ukraine.

[20:05:06]

You think this will be a top seller?

JENNINGS: I don't know if it'll sell as many t-shirts as Rashida Tlaib's shirt that says, impeach the M.F.er which she's selling on her campaign Web site. I think campaign merchandise has gotten rather strident in recent years.

But what I think is happening here, though, is that, clearly, the Trump White House has some explaining to do on some issues. And, clearly, the Democrats aren't confident in their position either. If they were, they would have hold -- they would hold a vote to launch a formal impeachment inquiry. If they were confident, they'd be having these hearings out in public.

So, it's not like one side is totally on offense on this issue. I think at the end of the day, the Democrats are going to impeach the president. They may get a couple Republican votes, at the end of the day. But I see very little path on a -- for conviction in the Senate. If what we know today is all that we know after impeachment occurs, I don't think the president will be convicted.

So, we'll, I guess, for the first time, go into a re-election campaign with an impeached but acquitted president. It's a -- quite a --

CABRERA: I just want to ask you quick --

JENNINGS: -- quite a thing for American history. CABRERA: -- I just want to ask you a quick follow-up, though, Scott,

because you mentioned, you know, if the Democrats were confident, they'd be holding these hearings in public. And I just wonder, if they were holding the hearings in public, if Republicans would be complaining that they're just trying to put on a big show, as opposed to really being focused on investigating --

SETMAYER: That's exactly right.

CABRERA: -- in the way they're doing. I mean, that's what we've heard in the past, when they've held public hearings.

JENNINGS: Well, look, I think that if they were confident in what they were doing -- and, look, impeachment is not a legal issue. It's a political thing. And you've got to get the American people fully on your side, if you want this to happen.

And if you're trying to build a public political case, the way you do it is through public hearings. And at a minimum the way you do it is put people on the record by having a vote on the inquiry. And Nancy Pelosi is worried more about the negative politics for her vulnerable members than she is about building a public argument for impeachment.

So, I think she's put her conference on shaky ground, in the way they've handled it so far. And it's not going to build the kind of public support that you would need, if you intended to try to get the president convicted in the Senate.

CABRERA: I know where Tara stands. But, Scott, do you think the president should be impeached? Have you seen enough?

JENNINGS: No, I don't think he should be impeached. I think he's exercised bad judgment on Ukraine. I think this issue in Syria is extraordinarily bad judgment. But if bad judgment were impeachable, many administrations would have died a thousand deaths. I don't like some of these decisions on foreign policy, but I don't think we should turn impeachment into just a way to exercise the passions of our political base.

Democrats have wanted to impeach him since day one. This is not the purpose of impeachment is, just because we're having personal or policy or judgment differences with the elected president. We're going to have an election in one year. The American people can decide if they want Donald Trump or not.

SETMAYER: Two things. This is not just bad judgment. It's an abuse of power, over and over again. It's a president asking a foreign government to interfere with our elections for his own political benefit. That is impeachable.

It's a president engaged in God knows how much corruption going on between his kids in the White House now, the stuff with Doral, everything else that's been going on with his personal lawyer, Giuliani getting money from Russian oligarchs. I mean, the list is unbelievably long. It far outweighs just bad judgment. It's abuse of power which is fully, fully impeachable, including obstruction of justice during the Mueller report.

So -- and one quick thing about the Democrats. The reason why the Democrats aren't doing this in public right now is because this is just like when you have a grand jury, and you have your witnesses come before a grand jury which is done in secret. Eventually, the transcripts could be released publicly.

But when they're doing investigative work, everyone that's testifying is testifying under oath. And it's my understanding that Democrats will release the transcripts of some of those witnesses that have come forward already.

You've seen the spectacle that's gone on in the Judiciary Committee and other places with these Republicans putting on these -- this circus and these side shows, asking ridiculous questions, putting forth conspiracy theories that are pushed by Russians.

And the Democrats are trying to prosecute this in a mature way. I think the way they're handling it is working. The American people, you have over 50 percent now, are in favor of impeachment which is almost three times where Nixon was at this point in his trial -- in his impeachment inquiry.

CABRERA: Tara Setmayer and Scott Jennings, good to have both of you with us. Thank you for your perspectives.

SETMAYER: Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Tomorrow, Jake Tapper will interview Congressman Francis Rooney. And that will be on "STATE OF THE UNION" at 9:00 a.m. right here on CNN.

After suffering a heart attack, Bernie Sanders picks up a key endorsement this weekend from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Is it enough to stop his slide in the polls?

And Hillary Clinton wading back into the 2020 waters. Hear her comments on one Democratic contender.

[20:09:43]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Bernie Sanders is back on the campaign trail and getting a much sought-after endorsement. Thousands packed Queens Bridge Park to see Senator Sanders officially received the endorsement from New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. This is happening less than three weeks since the 78-year-old presidential candidate suffered a heart attack.

CNN's Ryan Nobles was there to see Sanders soak in his big moment with AOC.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Ana, there's no doubt that Bernie Sanders wanted to make a big splash here in Queens. It's been two weeks since he last held his last campaign rally, and he made this a memorable day by bringing in one of the biggest stars in Democratic Party politics.

(voice-over): Bernie Sanders wanted to make one thing very clear.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To put it bluntly, I am back.

NOBLES: Sanders, a little more than two weeks after suffering a heart attack, returned to the campaign trail in dramatic fashion. Packing a park in Queens with a level of energy and enthusiasm designed to show that, despite the health scare, he isn't going anywhere.

SANDERS: I am happy to report to you that I am more than ready to assume the office of president of the United States.

NOBLES: Adding reinforcement to this new stage of his campaign.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Holy cow.

NOBLES: Progressive, rising star, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she formally endorsed Sanders and made the case that it is the Sanders' brand of politics that will beat Donald Trump.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: No one wanted to question this system. And, in 2016, he fundamentally changed politics in America.

NOBLES: Prior to his heart attack, the Sanders' campaign was stuck in neutral, struggling to keep up with front-runners, Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden.

[20:15:05]

But far ahead of lower-tier candidates unable to muster double digit support. His heart attack threatened to draw new questions about his age and fitness for office. But his supporters, crowded shoulder to shoulder in Queens, said they weren't worried by it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's OK. I -- that's the last thing I'm thinking about. He's strong enough, yes. He'll be around here at least another 30 years.

NOBLES: Sanders is now working to solidify support from the progressive left. In addition to locking up Ocasio-Cortez, Sanders also picked up the endorsement of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and will appear later this month with Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, three of the four members of the squad, a diverse group of freshmen female members of Congress, with growing influence in the Democratic Party.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I'm in the United States Congress now and that's a long, long way from being a sexually harassed waitress in downtown Manhattan one year ago. However, in this new, historic freshman Congressional class, an overwhelming amount of them now reject corporate PAC money. That's thanks to Bernie. NOBLES: A force that brings with it energy that helps Sanders draw what his campaign said was the biggest crowd so far. And inspired supporters like Peter Modavis (ph).

PETER MODAVIS: It seems that AOC saw Bernie almost on his death bed and still thought he was the best candidate for president.

NOBLES: And the promise Sanders made to those supporters, he is in this race to win.

SANDERS: There is no doubt in my mind that not only will we win this election, but, together, we will transform this country. Thank you all very much.

NOBLES (on camera): So, Sanders hoping to continue the momentum, with this reinvigorated campaign, will head straight to Iowa. He'll be in that state later this week. Their caucus is just a little more than a hundred days away. And Sanders also has a very big war chest to help spread his message, more than $30 million cash on hand -- Ana.

CABRERA: Our thanks to Ryan Nobles for that reporting.

In Syria tonight, a bad situation is getting worse. Despite the president and vice president selling a cease-fire deal, two U.S. officials now say that cease-fire between Turkey and Syria is not holding. Details ahead.

[20:17:36]

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CABRERA: The cease-fire in Syria this weekend appears to be in name only, according to at least two U.S. officials. One saying Turkish- backed forces broke the agreement on Friday, the first day of what was supposed to be a five-day pause in Turkey's offensive against Kurds inside the Syrian border. A U.S. official telling CNN those Turkish- backed forces either acted on their own or the Turkish government simply didn't care.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what President Trump's amazing outcome looked like on the ground in Rasa Lain (ph) in northern Syria Friday. Bodies of civilians, who Syrian Kurdish doctors here said were killed by an air strike near that border town. These images we had backed up those claims, though we can't conclusively verify them.

And Turkey called it disinformation. He was hit by a plane, she says. A lot of civilians are hit by planes, many dead since the morning. I don't know why. They were meant to stop. Around the town, the confusion over what the deal between the United States and Turkey actually meant that Kurdish civilians and foreign volunteers flocking to the town hoping to bring relief. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hundreds are going to be buried. And the plan

is to drive as far as we can. When we start getting shot out, we're going to start walking.

WALSH: They began walking and seemed to have turned back later. And there's one avoidable reason the deal announced Thursday wasn't going to last. The fanfare of the announcement didn't spell out exactly where the cease-fire applies. Turkish officials said the deal means the Kurds must leave a long sway at the border, but American officials seemed to indicate only an area 20 miles deep, where the Turkish already have control.

However, pro-Turkish forces already deeper into Syria, and it's unclear if the cease-fire applies here. Importantly, it's also unclear what will happen in two major Kurdish towns, Kobane near which Russian flags fly, which Pence said would not be attacked under the deal, and Qamishli where celebratory gunfire greeted the deal Thursday night. Hardly the sound of withdrawal. President Erdogan's officials seemed delighted with the deal.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT, TURKEY (translator): If the U.S. can keep their promises by Tuesday night when this 120 hours of cease-fire is over, but if these promises will not be realized, our operation appease spring (ph) will continue more rapidly than before.

WALSH: A hundred and 20 hours were how long from the announcement until Erdogan meets Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi. The Turkish president letting slip he wouldn't object to Moscow's ally, the Syrian regime, who moved into sensitive areas like Kobane this week, controlling areas where the Syrian Kurds were.

So, with the U.S. leaving, the road map for that meeting is clear, as are the new power brokers in Syria for all to see.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Nick Peyton Walsh reporting for us.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson suffering yet another bruising setback, after lawmakers didn't approve his Brexit deal. What that means for the U.K. and their future.

[20:24:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: It's a reversal that he once described as worse than being dead in a ditch. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is now asking the European Union for a delay to Brexit, after insisting that the United Kingdom leave the European Union by the end of the month.

In a rare Saturday session of Parliament, the prime minister was forced, by law, to ask the E.U. for an extension to the October 31st deadline, after losing a critical vote. But the letter he sent was missing one thing. His signature.

CNN's Nic Robertson breaks it down for us.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, Boris Johnson has now sent that letter to the European Union, as he is required by law, asking for a three-month extension for the Brexit negotiations.

However, he hasn't just sent one letter, as he is required by law. He has sent three letters. The first letter is simply a cover letter to the European Council president, Donald Tusk. The next letter coming is the one that I'm required to send by law. The one that he is required to send by law is, literally, a cut and paste copy of what is specified by law that he must send. He didn't, however, sign it.

He, then, sent a third letter to Donald Tusk, the European Council President, laying out, in quite some detail, his beliefs and his thoughts. And he says that the -- that the -- an extension would be corrosive.

[20:30:00]

He said that -- as he has said in Parliament many times, that he believes that an extension is not in the interest of the European Union or of the United Kingdom. Now, the question will then become, is Boris Johnson not only following the letter of the law but is he following the intent of the law? And an interpretation of the law is that a prime minister must not try to thwart the intent.

And so Boris Johnson, potentially, leaves himself open to that legal interpretation. And in Scotland on Monday, it is expected that there will be a legal challenge to Boris Johnson at the court of sessions in Edinburgh in Scotland to whether or not he has followed through and complied correctly with the Ben Act compelling him to send that letter.

However, Boris Johnson himself says that on Monday, he will begin to push through the legislation that will be required for the Brexit deal. We are at a place where Brexit with many different roads that could be followed at this point. It is confusing. It is complicated that it has moved forward. Not in the way anyone expected but it has moved forward.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Back here at home, remember when President Trump promised he'd be so presidential he'd be boring? Well, we'll take a look at how that's aged.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:49]

CABRERA: It all started with a promise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At some point, I'm going to be so presidential that you people will be so bored and I'll come back as a presidential person. And instead of 10,000 people, I'll have about 150 people. And they'll say, but boy, he really looks presidential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Remember that? So presidential. At some point. Well, this week marked 1,000 days of the Trump presidency and what did we see? We saw the president of the United States go on Twitter and rail against the Speaker of the House as having something wrong with her upstairs after a meeting on Syria descended into name calling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We witnessed on the part the president was a meltdown, sad to say.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): He called her a third rate politician. This was not a dialogue. It was sort of a diatribe, a nasty diatribe, not focused on the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We saw the reports. He referred to his own former defense Secretary Jim Mattis as the world's most over rated general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JIM MATTIS (RET.), FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm honored to be considered that by Donald Trump because he also called Meryl Streep an overrated actress. So I guess I'm the Meryl Streep of generals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We saw the fallout from the president's sudden decision to pull U.S. troops from Northern Syria. The invasion by Turkey, the killing of Kurds, the escape of ISIS prisoners, and a land grab by Syria's dictator Bashir al-Assad and his, enablers Russia and Iran. And we saw a president who wanted us to believe everything was fine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So I view the situation on the Turkish border with Syria to be for the United States strategically brilliant.

CABRERA: We saw the extraordinary letter he sent just three days after his fateful call with the president of Turkey telling him not to do the very thing he made possible by abandoning the Kurds, a letter that includes lines like, let's work out a good deal. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool. I will call you later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID GERGEN, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER TO NIXON, FORD, REAGAN, CLINTON: This had such an adolescent quality to it. I must assume when I read it, I immediately called my research assistant and said, see if this is fake. I just can't believe the White House sent this out.

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): This letter that he handed out to all of us at the beginning which I -- if he hadn't handed it out himself, I would have thought was not a real letter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And we saw the White House admit that, yes, the president did hold up aid to Ukraine because he wanted them to investigate political opponents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: And I have news for everybody, get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy. That is going to happen. Elections have consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Oh, and in the middle of all that, we saw the president decide that the best place in the entire United States to hold next year's G7 summit was at his own property, Trump National in Doral, Florida. And so, here we are, we come back to where we started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm going to be so presidential that you people will be so bored.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Are you bored yet? I'll bring in my next guest, Timothy Snyder, he's a Yale University professor and the author of, "The Road to Unfreedom". He also wrote the book on Tyranny: 20 Lessons From the 20th Century. Congrats because both are in the New York Times' best sellers list right now, including --

TIMOTHY SNYDER, PROFESSOR, YALE UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

CABRERA: -- a number one book right now.

Professor, as a historian yourself, when you take a look back at everything that transpired this week, what strikes you the most?

SNYDER: I find myself thinking more and more as a historian of the 18th century of the constitution of what the framers were thinking when they separated powers, of what the Framers were thinking when they created the possibility for impeachment, of what the Framers were thinking when they wrote the Emoluments Clause which forbids presidents from earning money by being president of the United States. I find myself going all the way back there and thinking, wow. This is the moment, that a lot of really smart people writing the constitution were preparing for.

[20:40:08]

CABRERA: Let that sink in for just a minute. You know, when the White House chief of staff goes before cameras and says get over it, when talking about a quid pro quo regarding a foreign government, what does that tell you?

SNYDER: I think the get over it is a very economical way of saying, get over the facts, get over the particular laws that make this illegal and get over the rule of law. Because any case like this where the president can simply do whatever he wants and then our reaction is supposed to be, so long as he admits it, it's OK. Any such case like that means that we don't have the rule of law anymore.

So what we're being asked to do is get over our entire history of being a country that respects the rule of law. In other words, being a country that has a constitution in which the president is meant to execute the laws as opposed to being a tyrant to use the Framer's word who considers himself to be above the law. That's what get over it means.

CABRERA: We just mentioned that letter that the president wrote to the president of Turkey to President Erdogan. And it had lines like, don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool. What kind of foreign policy is that?

SNYDER: Well, I mean, what's interesting about that is that it's the kind of letter that one bully might write to another bully. A number of people pointed out it's hard to tell whether the letter is real or a parody. Unless you are sure you would think it was a parody.

But now that we know it's real, what we see is that this is the language of one man talking to another man, which is OK if you're at a bar and it's your uncle, or it's friend, or whatever. But when you're the president of the United States, when you're the leader of the free world, when you're supposed to embody and exemplify a system of rules, this sort of thing means that that notion in, the U.S., that people should take us seriously because we have rules and knows how to express them is at a low.

I mean, a low in our lifetimes. And it's -- it looks worse from the outside than it looks from here.

CABRERA: Let me ask you about Doral. Because we heard, you know, the White House chief of staff come up and say the president found the G7 summit location at his own resort to be the obvious choice. It was the best choice. I'm quoting here. Far and away the best facility for this summit. We've learned Doral was not even on the suggested list of venues initially considered because of the ethical concerns here, and yet, they chose it anyway.

What does that tell you? SNYDER: I mean, it tells me a couple of things. One thing it's got me thinking about is just how much this man must actually need money. Right? Because why else would he be doing this? We still don't know whether Mr. Trump has money. We know that he has lots of debts and that he's going for a million here and a million there with these sorts of things, suggests that -- that suggest that he might really need money.

But, of course, the legal issue is much more profound. The constitution explicitly forbids presidents making money by being president. That's called the Emoluments Clause.

And also, this could be connected to a much deeper issue of corruption which I'm -- it makes me surprised that he's chosen this golf course. Because he only owns this golf course because of loans he got from Deutsche Bank at a time when Deutsche Bank was the only bank that was loaning to him. And also at a time when Deutsche Bank was deeply involved in laundering money for very suspicious foreign investors.

So it's odd to me that he would want to draw attention to this particular property at this particular time.

CABRERA: Real quick. Circling back to the conversation about impeachment and what the founding fathers were going for on what they were worried about in establishing the system the way it is, there's been some criticism of the Democrats and how they're conducting their impeachment inquiry. They are not holding the hearings we had this past week in the open.

Should they be doing it in the open to combat fake news narratives?

SNYDER: I think there are an awful lot of things that should happen in the open like the president should release his taxes in the open. If the president is going to be someone who says he's against corruption, he should be starting with himself.

The constitution doesn't specify how the -- how the House of Representatives has to carry this out. I think given, if we're going to talk about secrecy, I think the secrecy really begins with the White House. I think the Congress has every right to carry out an investigation as it sees fit.

That the criticisms of the Democrats or the House of Representatives are things like this little procedural thing here or this little statement there. That kind of makes me sad, because we're in a situation where what we're supposed to be thinking about is whether the rule of law is going to prevail in the United States of America as such.

We're in a situation where the president has essentially admitted that he's asked one foreign country and, of course, there are others, he's asked a foreign country to investigate one of his political opponents.

[20:45:09]

We're being asked to say, that doesn't matter. We're being asked to say, get over it. If we are supposed to get over that, then all this little stuff, all these little criticisms are obviously meaningless and hypocritical. The thing that we can't get over though are obvious violations of the rule of law.

CABRERA: Yes. Tim Snyder, always good to talk with you.

SNYDER: My pleasure.

CABRERA: Thank you very much.

Coming up, what's behind a bizarre war of words happening right now between former presidential nominee, Hillary Clinton and current presidential candidate, Tulsi Gabbard?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard's biggest critic in the 2020 presidential race is not President Trump or any of her democratic rivals, it's Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the democratic primary. She's a favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her, so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Gabbard quickly fired back at Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is doing this because it's very clear to her that she knows she can't control me. That if I'm elected president, then she will not be able to come in and try to influence or manipulate me or the policies that I will lead forward for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:50:01]

CABRERA: Joining us now, former governor of Virginia and former DNC chairman, Terry McAuliffe.

Governor, you were part of both Bill and Hillary Clinton's presidential campaigns. Does Secretary Clinton have anything to back her claims or is she indeed embracing conspiracy theories?

TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: Well, I think what she's trying to do is set the piece out there that we've got to be very careful as we head into this presidential elections that the Russians are going to meddle just as they did in 2016.

Obviously, we were concerned 2016 -- in 2020, 2016 as you know Jill Stein was in. We don't want 2020. I'm still angry about Ralph Nader in the 2000 election.

But listen, this is something that she's been reading a lot about. I don't know whether Tulsi Gabbard is connected with the Russians. But the Russian state media has been very favorable toward her. She won't come out and really go after Assad who is a genocidal dictator.

And so I think, you know, congresswoman can quickly figure this out, quickly put it to rest by, you know, coming out and saying Assad is a bad man. And, you know, I don't want the Russian folks coming out and supporting me in the media.

CABRERA: You know, President Trump is tweeting about this today. Seems to think it could work in his favor. Is this good or bad are for the democrats right now?

MCAULIFFE: Well, listen. I don't ever like to see Democrats fight with one another. However, the broader bigger issue is we need to be very careful as we head into this 2020 presidential election.

If you thought Russia was active in 2016, I think they're going to take it to a new level in 2020. Whatever they did and all the things they did to help Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, it has paid off for them. The issues of NATO and everything else that Trump has done since he's been in office.

So I think for Russia, they figured this is a very good bet for themselves. They are going to be active in the 2020 presidential election. And we got to be smart and we got to be tough. We cannot allow a foreign player to come in and try and undermine our democracy and undermine our elections.

And I think that's the point that Hillary is trying to say. We got to get our guard up. We got to be doing everything we can on cybersecurity. But, you know, we've got to be smart about it this time. There are going to be foreign actors who are going to want to engage and hurt our democracy.

CABRERA: I hear what you're saying. But she could have said what you just said as opposed to, you know, targeting one of the candidates in the race right now and, sort of, throwing that person under the bus.

But let's move on because I want to ask you about other news of day and Bernie Sanders today getting his big endorsement from Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. He's also receiving the backing of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and it's expected also from Rashida Tlaib.

So, three members of this influential freshmen Squad. Do you see this leading to a big surge of new support for Sanders?

MCAULIFFE: I do. I think it was an exciting day for Senator Sanders to get these congresswomen out there supporting. They have a huge base of support. I think it's very good for Senator Sanders. I think it'll help him in his online fundraising. It brings youth, it brings excitement. We all talk about how we need to get the millennials out. I've spent the entire day in Virginia today. We have our House and Senate up in about two weeks on November 5th. It's the young people that are bringing the energy. They're going to help us win the House and Senate. So I think it's a great day for Senator Sanders.

You know, Elizabeth Warren has done very well. You've got a top tier that would be Biden and Warren and then Sanders. But, you know, we're going to see ups and downs. I've been doing this a long time. But it was a good day for Senator Sanders. I think this brings a lot of excitement, it gets a lot of young people involved.

CABRERA: This was Senator Sanders' first campaign rally since his heart attack. He said he's back. You know, in 2016, we all recall Hillary Clinton had that near fainting spell where that raised questions about her toughness and her health, and now Sanders says he's back.

But why aren't there more questions about his health, do you think?

MCAULIFFE: Well, we had the debate. I always got a kick out of it in 2016. I think anyone who questions whether Hillary Clinton's tough enough, I don't know what planet they're living on.

But I would tell you this relates to Senator Sanders. I think what helped him -- he had the debate the other night, he looked very good in the debate. And I think -- you know, he put out a very positive message, he showed strength, and excitement, and enthusiasm. So I think he's put those issues to bed.

You know, people to question. He did have a heart attack and with his age. But, you know, he's got some big bold ideas, and he's got a lot of supporters. And he's going to keep on doing it. It's exciting. This race is very exciting.

We are going to beat Donald Trump. Donald Trump cannot win again in 2020. I remind you, Ana, there were three states, we lost by 77,000 votes. And yet, 92 million did not vote. They woke up the next day and said, holy cow, how did this happen? And they came out in '17. Huge for Virginia. The biggest pick-up in 140 years. We won the House last year, we won seven new governors, eight new state chambers. That excitement and enthusiasm is there.

You're going to see it In Virginia this year when we win the House and Senate for the first time in 26 years and then we're going to come back in 2020 and win the White House.

CABRERA: Governor Terry McAuliffe, thank you so much for joining us.

MCAULIFFE: Thanks, Ana. You bet. Thank you.

[20:55:01]

CABRERA: I hope you'll come back and help us as we go through the election season.

Ok. How did the CIA capture and bring to justice one of the most controversial Bosnian war criminals?

Here's a preview of tomorrows episode of "Declassified."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bear in mind what happened the date and accords stopped the worrying elements. It did not include people who were war criminals to take off your uniform, give yourself up, you need to be arrested. None of that took place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had a guy General Krstic who committed atrocities that after the Dayton Peace Accords, wiped the slate clean and now, he's a credible commanding general, and he committed genocide. So the Muslims kept asking themselves, where is the justice?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what we recognized and what they were insistent on was you couldn't have peace without justice. And so the justice meant identifying the perpetrators of the war crimes so they could be turned over to the criminal tribunal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: "Declassified" airs tomorrow night at 11:00 right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: I want to add end this evening with a huge congratulations to my executive producer, Adam Thomas, the man guiding our team every weekend. He and his lovely wife, Guitree (ph) have welcomed a second son. Ethan was born Wednesday evening, weighing eight pounds seven ounces.

Now, both Ethan and mom, we're told, are healthy. His big brother Harrison is over the moon, as you can see there. And by the way, Ethan is now the fifth baby to join my team this year. You're looking at the class of 2037. Adam, if you're watching, enjoy your family time. We look forward to your return in a few weeks. So that does it for me tonight. I'm back tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern.