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Mulvaney: Trump Still Considers Himself To Be In "Hospitality" Business; Hillary Clinton: Tulsi Gabbard A "Russian Asset"; State Senator Kai Kahele (D-HI) Discusses Her Race Against U.S. Sen. Tulsi Gabbard, Hillary Clinton Calling Gabbard A Russian Asset; Mitt Romney Admits He's Behind Secret Twitter Account. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 21, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: But he spent 305 days, and 238 of the days, he has played at his properties. Again, more publicity, more Trump, more Trump. Again, he makes money of it.

This one is a story we have to keep staying on. It's unbelievable. Mike Pence, the vice president of the United States, he stays in a hotel - a Trump hotel in Doonbeg in Ireland when he is doing business in Dublin across the country.

We covered that extensively. We're staying on that. But that to me, a remarkable story. It's not close, Doonbeg is not the suburbs of Dublin. It's a multiple-hour commute over there. Not something you would seemingly want to do.

Let's keep going. Donald Trump, as president of the United States, Brianna, the Trump Organization, which, remember, he still is the nominal head and his two eldest son's run.

Tweet out the landscape of this course, "Nothing comes close." Donald Trump president of the United States, March of 2019, "Very proud of the greatest golf course anywhere in the world. Also furthers U.K. relationship."

I mean this is a classic example of why things like the Emoluments Clause exist. You're not supposed to mix business and the presidency. And yet here we are.

We have all of these people, Sarah Sanders, Bill Barr, Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, all of these people have dined, stayed at, promoted Trump restaurants, Trump hotels, done events at these places. I mean, this is a walking argument for mixing your personal and professional.

Rudy Giuliani over and over and over again used the Trump name. We know now he has asked the Trump people for potential pardon of someone that he does business with. Again, there's -- you see Lev Parnas is over here and Igor Fruman.

There's a reason, Brianna, this stuff exists. It's not your phony Emoluments Clause, as Donald Trump said today. It's the Constitution's Emoluments Clause. There's a reason our founding fathers put it in. It's to avoid even the appearance that you are benefiting from the office.

We have a lot more than just an appearance of that. Trust me, there are more examples but those are six or seven of the most prominent -- Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The guys who were in that graphic there, have dined with Giuliani at a Trump property shortly before they were picked up by the feds at Dulles Airport trying to leave the U.S.

CILLIZZA: The day they were picks up at Dulles Airport, they have had lunch with Rudy Giuliani at the Trump International Hotel here in Washington.

KEILAR: Chris Cillizza, thank you so much for that.

Hillary Clinton accusing Democratic presidential candidate, Tulsi Gabbard being a Russian asset, and it's helping Gabbard's campaign. Details ahead.

Also, Mitt Romney says he's the guy behind a secret Twitter account going by -- get this -- Pierre Delecto. See what he said when he thought no one was looking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:40]

KEILAR: Tulsi Gabbard's campaign has been a blip, but now it's getting a jolt from an unexpected source. Criticism from the failed Democratic nominee. Hillary Clinton opened fire on Gabbard during a recent podcast without naming the congresswoman from Hawaii, it was pretty clear what she was saying. She calls her a Russian asset. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I'm not making any predictions, but I think they have their eye on someone who's currently in the Democratic primary. And are grooming her to be the third-party candidate.

She's a favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far.

That's assuming Jill Stein will give it up, which she may not, because she's a Russian asset. Yes, she's a Russian asset, I mean, totally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Gabbard tweeted back and tweeting, "Hillary Clinton, you, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, has finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know it was always you." President Trump came to Gabbard's defense a moment ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Anyone that is opposed to her is a Russian agent. So that's a scandal that was pretty much put down.

Tulsi, I don't know Tulsi, but she's not a Russian agent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Hawaii State Senator Kai Kahele is running in the Democratic primary against Tulsi Gabbard for her House of Representatives seat.

Senator, thanks for joining us.

STATE SEN. KAI KAHELE (D-HI): Aloha.

KEILAR: You told a Honolulu station that Tulsi Gabbard's response to this Clinton attack shows she's unhinged, that's the word you used. What do you mean by that?

KAHELE: It's disappointing. Tulsi Gabbard's unhinged attacks on secretary Clinton are disturbing and disappointing. I live here in Hawaii, born and raised here all my life. What she said does not reflect and embody what the people of Hawaii sent her to Washington, D.C., to do.

KEILAR: Do you think that Clinton's attack was fair and/or factual?

[14:40:09]

KAHELE: I think we need to look at exactly what Secretary Clinton said. And as someone who was the 2016 presidential nominee. knows firsthand how the Russians influenced the outcome of the election. And we know how Russian state media and their propaganda machine did everything they could to influence the outcome. I think that's what she was referring to.

We know that they are looking to prop up third-party candidates and, clearly, Congresswoman Gabbard is their preferred favorite.

KEILAR: Tulsi Gabbard has said she's not going to be a third-party candidate. Do you take her at her word?

KAHELE: You know, it's hard to know what Congresswoman Gabbard is doing. She changes her position every day. I think as we -- every day that goes on, we see erratic behavior from the congresswoman, whether it's attacking the media, her colleagues, publicity stunts, suing Google for $50 million or threatening to boycott the debate. It's disappointing and I think she's lost her way.

KEILAR: Do you think as secretary Clinton was pointing out that there have been bots in Tulsi Gabbard's corner? She has a unique position for sure when it comes to Syria. Do you think that Russia -- do you think Russia is throwing its weight behind Tulsi Gabbard?

KAHELE: I think it begs the question why. Why curious people like David Duke, Steve Banning and the alt right are attracted to Congresswoman Gabbard and her campaign.

Just this weekend, we know that R.T. and Russian media issued news stories. We know the Russian embassy has tweeted about her in the past. President Trump has tweeted about her in the last 48 hours.

It begs the question why. Why are white nationalists, Holocaust deniers attracted to Congresswoman's Gabbard's candidacy for president? I think it's concerning.

KEILAR: In fairness, do you think she's in league with these people?

KAHELE: That's not for me to speculate. To her defense, she has rebuked endorsements by David Duke and others in the past.

But I think it goes back to why. Why are they attracted to her candidacy? And we consistently see this ramp up.

What we don't need in the 2020 elections is a foreign government or the Russians, for that matter, interfering or trying to influence our elections. I think that's exactly what Secretary Clinton was alluding to.

KEILAR: I want to be fair when it comes to Gabbard's record is when it comes to the issues that certainly what those folks would champion because they are no in line..

But I do want to ask you about something that you've said about Tulsi Gabbard in recent weeks. You claim. She's been absent from her district. Tell us what you mean by that, specifically?

KAHELE: I mean, it's clear. Congresswoman Gabbard basically took a year off from representing the people of Hawaii to run for president. We don't have full-time representation here at Hawaii. We have lost our voice at the table. We don't have a delegation that's working together.

We can look at the congresswoman's missed votes. She's missed a number of votes. Lat week, she missed the resolution condemning what the president decided to do in Syria.

That's not what the people of Hawaii need. They need someone a voice in Washington, D.C. They need a voice who represents their interests and who wants to be there.

You know, half the battle is just showing for work. Time and time again, Congresswoman Gabbard has failed to show up for duty.

KEILAR: How would you represent Hawaii differently than Gabbard?

KAHELE: I'd show up for work. I would vote. I would be someone who comes home on congressional workdays who has town halls, who engages their district. This is one of the most challenging districts in Hawaii and across the

country. It's spread out over eight islands. You can't drive it. You have to fly there or take a ferry. You have to be engaged because it's a diverse district and it needs full-time representation. That's what we don't have.

KEILAR: Kai Kahele, thank you so much for joining us.

KAHELE: Thank you so much for the opportunity. Have a great day. Aloha.

KEILAR: You have a wonderful day as well.

[14:44:27]

Who is Pierre Delecto? Senator Mitt Romney admits its him. What are we learning about his secret Twitter account?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:01]

KEILAR: The president has called him a pompous ass, but that hasn't stopped Republican Senator Mitt Romney from being one of Trump's most vocal and defiant critics within the GOP.

Now we're learning how far Romney's criticism for the president goes after a new report reveals the Senator has a burner Twitter under the username "Pierre Delecto." He admitted this in a phone call with my next guest, McKay Coppins.

McKay, you tell us what he said when you asked if it was him.

MCKAY COPPINS, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": He gave me a two-word response, which he gave in French means, "It's me."

KEILAR: You updated that in your latest piece in "The Atlantic." It's called, "The Liberation of Mitt Romney.

I want to talk big picture about Mitt Romney. This is something you did over the course of months. Interviews with him, you've been covering him now for a decade. And you write that Romney's actually prepping for the possibility of impeachment. Tell us about that. What is he reading? What is he doing?

COPPINS: Yes, so I asked him about this. While a lot of his Republican colleagues are dismissing the impeachment hearings as a partisan witch hunt and, you know, fake whistleblower-driven theatrics, Romney says he's taking it seriously. He told me he's reading the Federalist Papers, brushing up on parliamentary procedure.

He said he doesn't have an abstract definition for what would constitute an impeachment act, but rather that he said, I'll know it when I see it.

And when I asked him if he's seen it yet, he said he's open to voting to convict, meaning that he would vote to remove Trump from office, but he wants to wait for the Senate trial to see all the evidence.

KEILAR: Back to Pierre Delecto, this is -- I still have so many questions about this. Tell us the back story on this?

COPPINS: Right. So I was in his office, I met with him several times over the last few months working on this profile. And just last week actually, I was in his office, and I asked him about what it was like to be the subject of a presidential Twitter tirade.

Donald Trump just recently spent a weekend tweeting impeachment Romney and other things. Romney shrugged and said, you know, this is just something that he does.

But then he got up and got an iPad from his desk and told me, you know, I have a secret Twitter account that is separate from my public accounts that I use to follow the political conversation.

And he didn't tell me the name of it, but then he gave me some details, who he was following, et cetera.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: The number of people.

COPPINS: Yes, 168 people is what he said.

KEILAR: That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Sorry. Go on.

COPPINS: He named some of the -- he follows journalists, media outlets, late night comics, some athletes. And so I put a lot of that in the story. It was interesting. It was revealing. And then it took Slate I think less than a few hours to figure out which account it was.

KEILAR: And 668 support IRS and he doesn't follow @DonaldTrump.

Didn't he say this was a lurker account? That's someone who is on Twitter so that they can see what's going on, but they're not actually engaging. He was engaging.

COPPINS: He was engaging. I mean, not really often. I think there were 10 total tweets and they were all responses. He was engaging. He was also liking tweets. They were all responses. But he was engaging. He was also liking tweets.

That's where a lot of the people picked up on interesting insights into how he's viewing things. He likes tweets about removing Trump with the 25th Amendment. He likes tweets that are jokes at the expense of some of his colleagues in the Senate.

You know, I don't know how seriously we should necessarily take a Twitter like, or how much we should read into it. But it is in keeping with the broader thesis of my piece, which is, I

have been covering this guy for nine years. I covered his presidential race. I covered him since then. This is the most liberated I've seen him.

Even when this Twitter account came out, I think another version of Mitt Romney, an earlier version, may have reacted by going into crisis mode and releasing a serious statement. In this case, he was laughing when I talked to him last night. He seemed to find the whole thing amusing.

KEILAR: It's hard not to get hung up on one detail but the entire piece, McKay, is worth a read. You talk about when you bring up Trump, Mitt Romney doesn't have the reaction that other Senators have in his emotion.

It's a great piece. We'll certainly check it out.

Thanks for coming on.

COPPINS: Thanks for having me.

[14:55:01]

KEILAR: President Trump says it's a forgone conclusion, he will be impeached by the House. Dropping that bombshell in an Oval Office meeting where he suggested the Republicans aren't being vicious enough.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:59:55]

KEILAR: Just in, a huge setback for Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He just abandoned efforts to form a new coalition government. This increases the chance that his rival, Benny Gantz, will become Israel's next prime minister.

If Gantz also fails to form a coalition and no one else emerges to hold a majority, Israel may be forced to hold a third election.