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Colorado Governor, Jared Polis Discusses Trump Saying He'll Build A Wall In Colorado, Comments On Impeachment Inquiry; U.S. Moving Tanks & More Troops To Eastern Syria; Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) Discusses Trump Sending Tanks & Troops To Eastern Syria, Pence Meeting House GOP Leaders On Syria/Turkey; Giuliani: "Everything I Did Was To Defend My Client"; Soon, Lindsey Graham To Discuss Impeachment Inquiry. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 24, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, you know, when the president says something, even this president, your first reaction is, well, you better take it seriously. You better make sure there's not a wall being built in Colorado. So I got confirmed, of course, that, in fact, there is no wall being built here.

In fact, the president has actually pulled money out of Colorado from our military bases to construct a wall on the southern border. We have lost tens of millions of dollars of funding for the wall.

We are glad it's not here. We don't want the wall here in Colorado. Welcome our friends from other states and other countries.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Got it. Don't want a wall. Don't need a wall. Copy that.

What did you make of the president's response that he was just kidding?

POLIS: I don't think kidding deliberately. It was obviously a gaffe. With people in public life say the wrong thing from time to time.

It's not something that is easy to make a mistake over. I think even first graders know that Colorado's in the middle of the country surrounded by other states. It's really a gaffe that he made.

And I think it shouldn't detract from the fact that this wall is a boondoggle and waste of money and they're taking some of that money out of our military construction funds in Colorado that support our military bases in Colorado Springs.

BALDWIN: First graders know that your state isn't bordered by Mexico, but the president -- OK.

Seriously, Governor, you are a former member of Congress. You are missing our current situation on Capitol Hill, for better or for worse, with regard to this impeachment inquiry.

What do you think of the state of bipartisanship or lack thereof?

POLIS: Well, in some ways, I'm glad I'm not there. It's really, really a difficult and challenging time in Washington. I prefer to work on the issues and improving education. We funded full-day kindergarten in Colorado. We've reduced health care costs by 22 percent.

And I hope the president's gaffes, joking, whatever you call it, doesn't detract from these serious allegations that he politicized our foreign policy, held foreign aid to a strategic ally hostage for them to investigate one of his political opponents.

That is a risk to the republic and to the integrity of the system and I have confidence that it will be fully investigated.

BALDWIN: Colorado Governor Jared Polis. Sir, thank you very much.

POLIS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Right now, we are waiting for a news conference from Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. What to expect from his announcement regarding this impeachment inquiry. Stand by for that.

Also, President Trump and the situation in Syria and what it means for the credibility of our country. Army veteran, Senator Tammy Duckworth, joins me next, live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:31]

BALDWIN: As this volatile conflict between Turkey and Syrian Kurds plays out, we are learning the U.S. may send tanks and more troops into eastern Syria to help protect the American troops already there. They're there in the region, apparently, to guard oil fields. Controlling Syria's oil is one President Trump's recurring themes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've secured the oil and, therefore, a small number of U.S. troops will remain in the area where they have the oil.

We've secured the oil.

I always said, you go in, you keep the oil. Same thing here. Keep the oil.

We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil everybody was worried about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN Pentagon Correspondent, Barbara Starr, is with me. And, Barbara, this plan confirmed to CNN by U.S. defense officials but details are scarce. What's the thinking here?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, until it gets officially signed off and those tanks actually start moving, officials are trying to figure out exactly how this might look.

But it is our understanding, from multiple officials, they are talking about sending a number of tanks, and that means dozens if not run hundreds of additional forces to man the tanks and provide support to them. They need fuel, logistics, repairs, spare parts. They need to have a secure route in and out of Syria. And all of that means they also need air cover overhead.

The mission. What would they do? The idea, as we're talking about it, is they would be used to provide security for the U.S. forces already there in that oil field region guarding the oil fields, taking control of the oil on behalf of the United States and the Kurds, as the president has described.

But -- and this is the huge "but" -- battlegrounds tend to shift if facts on the ground should change. Who has armored vehicles out there right now that could pose a threat? That is Turkish forces, Russian forces, and the forces of Bashar al Assad.

ISIS doesn't have tanks, functional tanks right now. It is these other elements that have these heavy armored forces.

The real question is, at hand, if those forces, the Russians, the Syrian regime, even the Turks, move into the oil field area, are U.S. troops going to be under orders to fire at them? And that is going to make this battlefield very complicated -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: That's a huge question. Let me add to your reporting.

Barbara, thank you very much.

We also just learned Vice President Mike Pence is meeting with House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, and other Republicans to talk through this situation regarding Turkey and Syria.

[14:40:08]

On the Senate side, Senator Tammy Duckworth is well familiar with the precarious conflicts in the Middle East. She flew combat missions in Iraq in 2004 until she was seriously wounded when a rocket-propelled grenade hit the Blackhawk helicopter she was copiloting.

Senator Duckworth is with me.

Senator, a pleasure. Welcome.

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Thank you for having me on, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We just heard from a spokesperson for President Erdogan calling President Trump's speech, quote, "mind-boggling" and, you know, "believable." But when you listen to President Trump he sees it as a victory.

So I just wanted to ask you, is it a victory? What are your thoughts on where U.S. policy is right now?

DUCKWORTH: What victory? All that President Trump has done is made America less secure than 14 days ago when he invited Erdogan to invade northern Syria. We've now allowed ISIS fighters to go free as a result of Turkey's attack on the Kurds. We have let down a decades- old ally in the Kurds now being slaughtered.

Russia now moved into the territory that U.S. forces have held, the Kurds held with our advisers helping them hold that territory. That strip of land now is held by the Russians, who have now managed to open a land bridge which they've always wanted to do.

It also now benefits Iranians who always wanted a land bridge to help them lead and create a pathway directly to our only true friend in the Middle East, which is Israel. Now we have put Israel under pressure.

And on top of that, we've also driven some of the Kurds, our allies, to start working with Bashar al Assad, the murderous dictator.

We're not any better off are than we were 14 days ago. We are worse off. And this policy of the president has done nothing but endangered Americans and our friends and lost our position as a global leader.

BALDWIN: Well, the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, is on the road today and was actually asked the key question, how can the U.S. be trusted, in this interview with the paper "The Wichita Eagle." Senator, let me read this back and forth to you.

The question from this reporter was, "What good really is the word of the U.S.? In light of the president's treatment of the Kurds, has that undercut U.S. credibility?" The secretary responding, quote, "The whole predicate of your question is insane. The word of the United States is much more respected today than it was just two and a half years ago."

Senator Duckworth, I mean, what was the question to use his word insane and, I mean, how can the U.S. be trusted moving forward?

DUCKWORTH: Well, what we have done, what President Trump has done, has made the U.S. and our nation a nation cannot be trusted to keep its word. Ask the Kurds being slaughtered now and ask the Israelis, who asked us not to do this, to pull out. Ask other allies, who asked, please, don't pull out.

President Trump has handed Russia, Turkey, Syria, and Iran exactly what they wanted. In fact, the biggest winner in this is ISIS.

Not only have we lost our Kurdish allies in the region and also standing with our NATO allies, but we've lost our intelligence assets. No one will tell us what's going on there. Who will stick out their neck to inform us when they know we might abandon them like we did the Kurds? And not to mention that now Russia owns that strip of land that we

used to control. Guess what? We can't fly drones there anymore because the Russians have capability of knocking down our drones.

BALDWIN: Questions on future relationship with allies, questions on relationships with intelligence.

I don't know if you saw one of the president's tweets was basically suggesting the Kurds relocate to the oil. This is what he tweeted: "I really enjoyed my conversation with General Mazloum. He appreciates what we've done." He's the head of the Kurds. "And I appreciate what the Kurds have done. Perhaps it is time for the Kurds to start heading to the oil region."

And, Senator, we were -- I was, in touch with one of our Pentagon correspondents, Ryan Browne, who basically saw it like the commander- in-chief is saying that the Kurds should essentially ethnically cleanse themselves. How do you see it?

DUCKWORTH: Right. That's exactly how I see it. This is territory that is this historic territory to the Kurds. They've always lived in this area. Essentially, the president is helping Erdogan and Turkey ethnically cleanse and that is not acceptable.

America has never been on the side of people who commit atrocities and ethically cleanse the way the Turks are going after the Kurds now. And it's absolutely wrong.

By the way, if I were in the military still, if I were a division commander or Special Forces commander, I would be preparing my op plans right now, dusting off my boots because I'd know I was going right back in.

I said this two days ago. Guess what? Today, President Trump is talking about sending more troops back into Syria.

This -- as the ISIS fighters flow free and the Kurds leave and no longer there to do a lot of the work on the ground for us --

(CROSSTALK)

[14:45:01]

BALDWIN: You think we'll end up back in?

DUCKWORTH: Oh, yes. We're going to be sending them back in. If not into Syria, then into Turkey where these Kurds are coming in and where the ISIS fighters are now headed right now.

BALDWIN: Congresswoman Tammy Duckworth, let's keep the conversation going. I appreciate your service to the country and your expertise in the region. Thank you very, very much.

DUCKWORTH: Thanks for having me on.

BALDWIN: New details now in the Ukraine investigation. And a revealing tweet from Rudy Giuliani, who's been pretty quiet for a while. What is might reveal about the president's role here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:29]

BALDWIN: CNN learned President Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is now looking for a defense attorney. Sources tell CNN he's asking around amid a federal investigation of his business dealings in Ukraine and a counterintelligence probe.

People close to Giuliani have been telling him to hire a criminal lawyer ASAP. When asked by CNN if he's hired one, Giuliani would not say. But he did tweet this last night, quote, "Everything I did was to discover evidence to defend my client against false charges."

Let's start there. Vicky Ward is with me, a CNN Senior Reporter, Elie Honig, CNN legal analyst and former U.S. assistant attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Elie, let's start with the tweet. He says he did everything for his client. Why is that not the best argument?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a perfect example of why Rudy needs to shut up and lawyer up, because I think he thinks he's helping himself and Donald Trump. Really, he's making the exact point against Donald Trump.

The big question with Ukraine is, was Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani trying to promote the best national and foreign policy interests of the United States of America, which is OK, or were they trying to promote Donald Trump's personal and political interests, which is impeachable. And that tweet tells us it's the latter.

BALDWIN: By the way, your point shut up and lawyer up, if you got a phone call from him, what would you say?

HONIG: I like a good challenge. But one condition, that phone's got to go in the Hudson.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: The Hudson.

To your reporting, I know CNN has talked to nearly a dozen people who knew these two associates, Parnas and Fruman. How did these two use their Giuliani connection to make money?

VICKY WARD, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: So Giuliani was their trump card, to use a bad pun.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WARD: They used his name, showed endless photographs of themselves with him, including on private planes, and they basically promised access to him and to other influential Republicans if they could be paid. In one particular instance, they said they desperately needed --

Parnas needed to desperately pay for his son's circumcision and, in exchange, he got a loan for $100,000, and promising, on the back of that loan, access to Giuliani and others. But the man had to sue to get his money back.

BALDWIN: Wow.

And one lawyer you talked to said that the two tried to sell access to the Trump administration as well? What did you learn?

WARD: He did. He went to a supporter of the new Ukrainian president, Zelensky, and said he could broker a meeting between Zelensky and Vice President Pence and energy secretary, Rick Perry.

In other words, they were a new State Department. The meeting happened but not because of them. It happened through official government channels.

BALDWIN: It's a wow. It's all a wow.

You are an alum of SDNY. Talking to a reporter last week how Rudy Giuliani -- this is the first that Rudy Giuliani once led SDNY, and now being investigated by SDNY. What's the chatter among your circles on that notion?

HONIG: It's shocking and jarring. SDNY is sort of an insular society. We all stay in touch. The people who Rudy Giuliani supervised and supervised me a decade or two later, it's incredible.

But let's remember, Rudy Giuliani put himself in this situation. His own conduct put, even if he's close to the line -- which clearly he's close to the line, we'll see whether he crossed over the criminal line. But even being in this position is Rudy Giuliani's own fault.

Yes, I think this would a first. He led the office. His portrait's on the wall. If he gets indicted by the office, it will be an incredible thing to see. But really his own doing.

BALDWIN: Vicky, Elie, thank you both very much.

HONIG: Thank you.

WARD: Thank you.

[14:54:15]

BALDWIN: Coming up here, waiting for word from Senate leadership. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is about to announce a new move in the Republicans' fight against impeachment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We continue on. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here. Just a heads up. Any moment now, Senator Lindsey Graham will step

before cameras and take aim at House Democrats over this impeachment inquiry into President Trump.

The South Carolina Republican is expected to do what many other allies of the president had done in recent weeks, condemn the process.

What's key here, they're not condemning the allegations leveled against Trump by multiple career diplomats, people wildly respected on both sides of the aisle.

So Senator Graham's resolution comes as CNN learned Democrats could take those impeachment hearings public as early as next month. Potentially, with some of the witnesses who have provided the most damning testimony so far.

Let's start on Capitol Hill with Phil Mattingly, all over this.

We've got a lot of White House outreach today. The vice president meeting with House Republicans on Syria. We know the president has had lunch with Republican Senators. What's going on, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's important to contextualize what's going on.