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Trump Says, ISIS Leader Killed In U.S. RAID In Syria; U.S. Says ISIS Ideology Still A Threat After Al-Baghdadi. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 28, 2019 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN NEWSROOM: Live from CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Natalie Allen. Coming next here on CNN Newsroom, the hunt for the leader of ISIS came to a dramatic end as U.S. forces survive gunfire, booby-traps and explosive vests. New details on how the raid to kill Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi unfolded.

The U.S. president spent nearly an hour announcing the terror leader's death, and giving graphic details about the raid. And a source says the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria had a major impact on planning the Baghdadi operation. We'll get into that this hour.

Also the ISIS leader spawned a barbaric group and ideology, leading to hundreds of attacks and thousands of innocent people killed worldwide. We hear from a friend of one of those victims.

Thank you for joining us. Our story, the leader of ISIS may be dead but that does not mean the end of the terror group. Following the U.S. raid that has set to have killed ISIS leader Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi, a U.S. defense official tells CNN that high-value terror operatives must be dealt with immediately, and there will be a scramble to fill the vacuum that Baghdadi leaves behind before U.S. eyes go away due to troop withdrawals from Syria.

Drone footage shows the crater made by the blast that destroyed Baghdadi's compound. A source tells CNN that Baghdadi's body may be disposed of at sea, just like Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, killed by U.S. forces.

U.S. President Donald Trump made the announcement of Baghdadi's death on Sunday and gave a detailed account of the raid and the ISIS leader's final moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He died after running into a dead-end tunnel, whimpering, crying and screaming all the way. He had dragged three of his young children with him. They were led to certain that. He reached the end of the tunnel as our dogs chased him down. He ignited his vest, killing himself and the three children. His body was mutilated by the blast. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Barbara Starr now from the Pentagon has more on how the raid went down.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: President Trump offering explicit details about how Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi met his fate when U.S. Special Forces landed at the compound in Northwest Syria, where he had been hiding out, about 100 groups coming in on eight helicopters with overwhelming firepower.

They called for Baghdadi to come out. He did not. He apparently fled into an underground tunnel. And it was at that point that he detonated a suicide vest himself and three children he had dragged down there with him.

U.S. forces spent about two hours at the compound gathering intelligence. The kind of thing they typically look for, computers, laptop computers, cell phones with data of addresses or contacts, any documents, any photographs, anything that might give them clues about who Baghdadi had been communicating with, what the network look like, whether they were operatives even potentially outside of Syria and Iraq, other clues that may take them to additional rates, additional hiding place of other terror targets.

Now, for now the U.S. troops had a very successful mission. Two were slightly injured already returned to duty. But with U.S. troops coming out of Syria, the real question at hand is whether they will be able to readily continue these kinds of raids. They had to depend clearly on intelligence on the ground. And if U.S. Troops are not on the ground, getting that intelligence to be able to conduct these types of rates may be increasingly hard.

ALLEN: Well, people living near the scene of the raid woke to the sounds of helicopters, then an explosion. Now, all that's left behind, of course, is rubble.

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CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more from a witness who described what happened.

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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was the hardest of places to get into, and hardest to get he'd be hiding in. This is all that's left of where the world's most wanted man hid, possibly for weeks. Much of intelligence value whisked away, flattened to rubble by repeated airstrikes. Cleaned up, it seems, by the Islamists who control the area.

We obtained these images from a local cameraman able to function in a region where Al Qaeda is strong, but where elsewhere civilians are bombed too often for life to be normal, two of the dead here collected and taken away. Shells littered the area perhaps from the eight helicopters that arrived here in the dead of night before U.S. commandos blew holes through the compound walls. Ahmed (ph) was woken just before 11:00 P.M. local time and was shocked to see helicopters hovering about 150 meters up. 90 minutes later, a blast follows. Doors and windows of houses as far as one kilometer away were completely shattered, he said.

We waited until sunrise before we came here and we saw the bodies of the martyrs, women and children, body parts, about six or seven dead.

In the morning, we heard that Baghdadi was here, but people living here thought displaced people from Aleppo lived in the house working in the cattle and grain trade. No one knows, he said, exactly what happened.

Somewhere below this dust is the tunnel where President Donald Trump said Baghdadi blew himself up, killing his three children with him. But by dawn, there was so little left to pick over here, Baghdadi's son, and as fleeting (ph), as his appearances in the world, he cursed with radicalize violence.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Erbil, Northern Iraq.

ALLEN: Let's go now to CNN's Jomana Karadsheh. She's at Turkey-Syria border and joins us now with reaction from the Middle East. Jomana, hello to you. What are you hearing from Turkish officials and President Erdogan about this?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Natalie, Turkey is one of the countries that had its share of ISIS attacks, some of the most devastating attacks carried out here in Turkey. So President Erdogan, like other world leaders, welcoming this news, calling this a turning point in the fight against terrorism, and the fight against ISIS.

And we also heard from another senior Turkish official, the communications director for President Erdogan later in the day, saying that there must be a thorough investigation in how Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi managed to get to that area of Syria.

Of course, there're lots of questions about, Natalie, but for Turkey and other players in this region, there's a lot of finger-pointing and blame going on right now. Of course, Turkey alluding to the fact that he had possibly moved through territory that is controlled by the Syrian Kurds, territory that is controlled by the regime. You have the Syrian Kurds on the other hand also pointing the figure at Turkey, saying how did he get to an area so close to Turkey's border? So a lot of questions about that at this point.

But also another important issue here being raised by Turkish officials, as we've heard from so many experts too, saying that the fight against terrorism, the fight against ISIS does not end with the killing of the leader. And if you look at the situation in this region right now, Natalie, the same chaos, the same issues, the conditions that led to the rise of ISIS in the first place, that hasn't changed.

And if you look at the following that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and ISIS managed to gather over the years, that also hasn't changed. I mean, if you look at the situation inside Syria, for example, we were there a few months ago in areas formerly controlled by ISIS, we had the ISIS detainees who were being held in the camps, people who lived under the control of ISIS. And we met so many who were still describing themselves as true believers, and there is little that has been done to de-radicalize them, to deal with these issues.

So unless that is really tackled, unless the issues that led and the conditions that led to the rise of ISIS are really tackled and dealt with by the international community, by countries in this region -- this is a big blow, the killing of Baghdadi is a big blow for ISIS. But at the same time, unless these issues are actually dealt with, this is definitely not the end of this terror. Natalie?

ALLEN: Absolutely.

And now there's a vacuum from the troops leaving, or the remaining troops from the United States just protecting oil.

I want to ask you too. What do we know about the U.S.-backed Syrian Defense Forces, the SDF, what they are saying about the Turkish offensive perhaps delaying the operation to get Baghdadi?

KARADSHEH: Well, the Syrian Democratic Forces, the Syrian Kurdish fighting force, says, of course, that it was intelligence that they had gathered over the past few months that led to this operation and led to the killing of al-Baghdadi. They're also accusing -- they're also blaming Turkey for a delay in this operation, saying that the Turkish offensive delayed the operation by more than a month

But we also heard from President Trump during that address yesterday, Natalie, and he did say that the operation had been postponed a couple of times because of the different movements by al-Baghdadi. He said that they thought he would be going to one location, then he would change, then he would change his mind.

So there's lots of questions about how this all unfolded, about the intelligence that led to this operation, that I suspect we will find out more in the coming hours and days, Natalie.

ALLEN: All right. Jomana Karadsheh there on the border for us, thanks so much for your input.

Russia is questioning the U.S. account of the raid and its success, this despite President Trump thanking Moscow for its help in the operation. Our Fred Pleitgen has more from Moscow about this part of the story.

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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The first country that President Trump thanked after that successful raid on the leader of the ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, was Russia. But if President Trump thought that he was going to get any love back from the Russians, he certainly seems to be mistaken, and the Russians instead putting out a statement blasting the U.S. and then also calling into question whether that raid was really successful.

Now, this comes from the spokesman of the Russian military, Major General Igor Konashenkov. And he said that, first of all, the Russians had not registered any sort of airstrikes in what they call the Idlib de-escalation zone, obviously that area where that raid took place. He also said that the Russians know nothing about providing any sort of assistance to the United States in that raid, for instance, by allowing the U.S. to fly through airspace that's controlled by the Russians, and then the Russians also calling into question the very success of that raid.

I want to read a little bit of the statement that the Russians put out. This is a quote. The increasing number of direct participants and countries that allegedly took part in this operation, each one giving completely contradictory details, raises legitimate questions and doubts about its existence and especially the level of its success.

And the Russians didn't stop there. They also said that even if this raid happened and was successful, they don't believe that it's going to make any sort of difference on the ground. The Russians are obviously saying there are still, aside from ISIS, a lot of other militant groups out there that they believe still need to be fought, especially in that area where the raid took place in Idlib.

So, certainly, the Russians, while President Trump seems to have some warm words for them, really not returning the favor to him at all.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

ALLEN: The leader of ISIS may be dead but his brutal brand of violence remains. When we return, we look at the legacy of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and the atrocities he inspired worldwide.

Plus, we pause to remember some of those who died at the hands of ISIS, like American aid worker Peter Kassig.

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ALLEN: Welcome back. Updating our top story here, U.S. President Trump saying ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has been killed in a U.S. military raid in Northwestern Syria. Mr. Trump spoke Sunday about the strategic importance of that area and the overall significance of the operation.

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TRUMP: We're after these leaders, and we have others insight, very bad ones. But this was the big one. This is the biggest one, perhaps, that we've ever captured, because this is the one that built ISIS and beyond and was looking to rebuild again, very, very strongly looking to build it again. That's why he went to this province. That's why he went to this area.

A lot of people I was watching this morning and hearing, and they said, why was he there? People were so surprised. Well, that's where he was trying to rebuild from because that was the place that made most sense if you're looking to rebuild.

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ALLEN: The announcement of Baghdadi's death is being hailed as a major blow to the terror group, but some are concerned ISIS sympathizers will continue to pose a

threat.

Here is what the U.S. defense secretary had to say on a CNN State of the Union, Sunday.

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MARK ESPER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, it's a physical caliphate. And defeat, it's hard to defeat an ideology. So what we're going to have to do is stay on top of this. We're going to have to make sure we have the capability to go in and, again, destroy targets as they arise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Al-Baghdadi may be dead but his legacy of brutality lives on. His reign of terror was felt around the world as he inspired others to kill viciously in the name of ISIS.

CNN's Robyn Curnow has more on the violence Baghdadi inspired and the threat it still poses.

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ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: The sheer brutality that Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi exported is still difficult to comprehend. This is the aftermath of the ISIS terror attacks in Paris in 2015, 130 people were, killed, 90 of them at the Bataclan Concert Hall. Months later, Brussels Airport was attacked in a deluge of horror, so too was the Istanbul Airport.

Then France was again struck this time in Nice during a Bastille Day celebration with a large truck driven by a man inspired by ISSI plowed through dozens of people walking on a seaside promenade.

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The scope of Baghdadi's influence has also been found from the Philippines to Jordan, to Egypt and Bangladesh and beyond.

In the U.S., the attack in San Bernardino and the massacre at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando were all inspired by ISIS and Baghdadi's call to kill. The methods ISIS used to cause maximum terror were all amplified by social media. For Baghdadi, it was not enough to just kill, to behead, to crucify, he tried to make sure as many people as possible saw ISIS's evil acts. Horrifying videos made sure the terror was replayed again and again. He snatched western hostages, journalists, aid workers and flaunted them and their deaths often by beheading on camera. And he killed thousands of people at home in the Middle East.

United Nations determined ISIS's actions against Yazidis and other minority groups in Iraq and Syria constituted genocide, women in particular were targeted and used as sex slaves, brutalized by rape and torture.

He didn't just destroying lives across the world but also precious ruins and relics of previous civilizations. This brand of violence was also carefully nurtured, taught and exported. Baghdadi might be dead but his specific type of violence and hate is not.

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ALLEN: Robyn Curnow reporting there. Now, in her story, you saw a photo of former U.S. soldier and American aid worker Peter Kassig. He was beheaded by ISIS terrorists five years ago. Before his capture by the terror group, he spoke with our Awra Damon about why he left the military to help victims of war in Syria as a medical worker. Here he is.

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PETER KASSIG, AMERICAN AID WORKER AND ISIS VICTIM: We used to get one life and that's it. You have one shot at this. We don't get any do- overs. Life, for me, it was time to put up or shut up. The way I saw it, I didn't have a choice. Like this is what I was put here to do. I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic and I'm an idealist and I believe in hopeless causes.

There's this impression that's believed that there is no hope, you know. That's when it's more important than ever that we come in against all odds and try to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: A friend of his spoke with CNN's Ana Cabrera about his life and legacy on Sunday. Here's that.

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SULOME ANDERSON, FRIEND OF ISIS VICTIM PETER KASSIG: He was exactly as he presented himself in that, just pure heart, all -- just very transparent. There was no calculation. There was no sort of machinations going on there. What you saw was what you got with Pete.

And he is just -- he was just -- he was -- I've never met anyone like him. He just wanted to help. It's all he wanted.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: When he was in Syria to help those people who were suffering in the civil war, is that right? ANDERSON: Yes. He was -- he went in there to save civilian lives, risking his own. And for no reason, he had nothing connecting him to the region other than his time as a ranger during the Iraq War. He felt a responsibility to try and rebuild what he saw as what we had destroyed in the region. And he wanted to do it with his skills, which were medical.

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ALLEN: Kassig was only a 26 years old when he was killed by ISIS. Bob Baer is CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst and a former CIA operative. He joins me now to talk more about these developments from California. Bob, thanks so much for being here.

I want to start right there with that report about one of the so many victims of ISIS from around the world. With Baghdadi dead, let's talk about where this leaves this group. Because our Jomana Karadsheh said earlier that she just talked with people involved with ISIS, families, women a few months ago, they have not been de-radicalized.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: I don't think they have at all. This movement didn't depend upon Baghdadi. And Sunni Islam, is not one of particular leader, there is a lot of clerics that can take over. In fact, the man behind this violent philosophy is still alive and still writing and still very influential, al-Muhajir.

So this is going to continue on and these people are unrepentant. If they are led out, the first thing they will do is go to war with the Shia Muslims in Iraq and Syria and the Kurds. They are not going away.

Now, whether they can carry these attacks to Europe or not is something else. That seems to have died down their capabilities. But his death is not going to make any difference or much.

ALLEN: So with what you just said about a resurgence of ISIS, where does that leave the fact that the U.S. president is pulling troops out of Syria?

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BAER: Well, it's idiocy, frankly. I mean, the Kurds did most of the fighting. They are the ones who forced Baghdadi, for instance, to go west, to hide out. And thanks to them, we got this guy. They're going to continue to fight. And our sending in troops to guard the oil fields in Syria, which Trump has started to do, will make it look all the worse, that make us look predatory, we will remain the enemy and they are going to look for a new footing, whether it's going to be in Iraq or Syria, it's too earlier to tell.

But that whole region along the Euphrates must sort of wide open for them to set back up.

ALLEN: Now, I want to ask you about the raid itself and how Baghdadi reportedly lost his life running down a tunnel. He blew himself up instead of allowing U.S. forces to kill him. Will ISIS used that somewhat as propaganda?

BAER: Well, exactly. I mean, the fact it's a horrible, hideous insult even for somebody as vicious as Baghdadi in their terms to call him a dog. And also it's unclear what really happened. So many of these reports coming out of a raid like this beginning are just just flat-out wrong and there's a lot of unanswered questions, by the way, like why was this raid conducted from Turkey. It is a quick drive across the border and it's a NATO ally. We don't have that answer.

We also don't really know, and I'll wait for the evidence on this, I mean, how he died, because in this wall-breaching, you put explosives against the wall. In fact, that's what happened. You killed a lot of people inside the house. There's rebars that blow through. So let's just wait until the details come out and we are more certain.

But insulting the Islamic State, it does nothing in their terms and it rallies the troops and look how vicious the Americans are. They are bloating over our deaths. We have to fight back. It's a matter of survival. The president does not understand the mentality of these people and he is not listening to anybody around him. And there's a better way to handle this, no doubt about it.

ALLEN: Yes. Well, just months after the last ISIS flag came down, it seems we are coming back to a circle where it's going to be an issue, a vicious circle once again.

We always appreciate your expertise, former CIA operative Bob Baer, thank you, Bob.

BAER: Thanks.

ALLEN: Next here, why President Trump says he did not tell Democratic lawmakers about the plan to kill Baghdadi.

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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. We're glad you're with us. I'm Natalie Allen.

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U.S. President Trump told the world Sunday that ISIS leader al- Baghdadi had been killed, and he went into great detail on how the U.S. military smoked Baghdadi out. Here is his account.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we landed with eight helicopters, a large crew of brilliant fighters ran out of those helicopters and blew holes into the side of the building, not wanting to go through the main door, because that was boobytrapped. And there was something -- it was something really amazing to see. I got to watch much of it.

No personnel were lost in the operation, while a large number of Baghdadi's fighters and companions were killed with him.

He died after running into a dead-end tunnel, whimpering, and crying and screaming all the way. The compound had been cleared by this time, with people either surrendering or being shot and killed. Eleven young children were moved out of the House and are uninjured. The only ones remaining were Baghdadi in the tunnel, and he had dragged three of his young children with him. They were led to certain death.

He reached the end of the tunnel as our dogs chased him down. He ignited his vest, killing himself and the three children. His body was mutilated by the blast. The tunnel had caved in on it, in addition, but test results gave certain immediate and totally positive identification. It was him.

The thug who tried so hard to intimidate others spent his last moments in utter fear, in total panic and dread, terrified of the American forces bearing down on him. He died like a dog. He died like a coward. He was whimpering, screaming, and crying. And frankly, I think it's something that should be brought out, so that his followers and all of these young kids that want to leave various countries, including the United States, they should see how he died. He didn't die a hero. He died a coward: crying, whimpering, screaming and bringing three kids with him to die, certain death.

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ALLEN: The raid also highlights the bitter feud between President Trump and Democratic lawmakers. Mr. Trump did not tell key Democrats, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, about the operation until it was over.

Let's talk about that and other aspects of it with Jessica Levinson, professor at the Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

Good to see you, Jessica. And thanks for being with us.

Let's start there. President Trump telling Russia about the operation, but not Democratic lawmakers. That's unusual for a president to do that.

JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL IN LOS ANGELES: Yes, we -- I mean, let's start with the obvious, which is this is a huge military victory for the U.S. military. And this is a victory, period.

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And then let's move on to what makes today unusual, and there was a lot of different norm-breaking types of behavior today.

I mean, one that you're pointing out is the idea that we would not share this with our representatives. We shared it, apparently, President Trump shared with certain Republican lawmakers but not Democratic lawmakers, saying he was worried about leaks, but then also shared this information with Russia. That is, to say the least, norm- breaking.

And frankly, so is his tone, talking in these kind of vitriolic words, boastful words. Typically, you'd see something a little bit more solemn.

And, you know, like so many things, even this type of military victory that typically would unite Americans across the aisle, we see that we're again divided based on a reaction to how President Trump told us the news.

ALLEN: Right. And let's talk about what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had to say. She said the House must be briefed on this raid, which the Russians but not top congressional leadership were notified of in advance.

And on the administration's overall strategy in the region, she said, "Our military and allies deserve strong, smart and strategic leadership from Washington."

And, of course, this follows, Jessica, that momentous meeting in the White House, when she stood up and pointed her finger at Mr. Trump and asked why all roads lead to the Russian leader. But she was kept out of it by the president.

LEVINSON: She was. And, as I said, it's not only that it's not normal or that it's not the typical course or that it's not customary. There's a reason that you would let the top representatives know we're engaging in this large military effort. This operation is going to happen.

These are people who represent us. They're not simply, you know, President Trump's friends or enemies. And there are plenty of reasons that we want to be more -- as open and transparent as we can be. Obviously, for national security, we don't want to telegraph what's happening, but the idea that we would trust the Russian government more than members, high-ranking members of our own government, who have significant security clearance, really shows that, I think, President Trump sees everything through -- and particularly this, through a partisan, political lens.

ALLEN: Yes, and more to that, does this relate to the chasm between him and the House, which, of course, is currently carrying out an impeachment investigation of him?

LEVINSON: Right. I mean, so we can't ignore the fact that the House of Representatives is now doing the most serious thing that it can do with respect to a duly-elected sitting president, which is going through impeachment inquiry. And there is -- there is no good blood. There is only bad blood between Speaker Pelosi at this point and President Trump.

And so -- but regardless of the fact that the House is looking into should we refer to the Senate that you are removed from office? Should we say, President Trump, that you have so transgressed the norms, that you have misappropriated your office, that you acted for personal gain, that you should be removed? Regardless of that, as a sitting president, he still has a duty to

make our representatives aware of something as serious as this. And so, again, you see the politics and the partisan politics just infusing every aspect of today.

ALLEN: Absolutely. We appreciate your insights, as always. Professica [SIC] -- Professor Jessica Levinson -- excuse me -- thank you.

LEVINSON: Thank you.

ALLEN: Voters in Argentina have cast their ballot for president. Ahead, we tell you which candidate they chose to lead them out of a tough recession.

Also, California is under a state of emergency, as wildfires force tens of thousands to evacuate, and one fire isn't letting up. We'll show you some of the damage left behind.

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ALLEN: Voters in Argentina's presidential election, voting has ended there, and it looks like a new leader will take the helm. Incumbent President Mauricio Macri conceded defeat Sunday after voting results showed left-leaning challenger Alberto Fernandez with a big lead.

Fernandez celebrated the outcome with supporters in the capital. He says he'll meet with the outgoing president Monday to discuss the nation's challenges, especially the struggling economy in Argentina.

In the U.K., Prime Minister Boris Johnson plans to ask members of Parliament in the coming hours to approve a general election on December 12. For it to pass, he'll need two-thirds of the MPs' support.

Mr. Johnson says if they back the election, it gives them more time to scrutinize his Brexit deal.

And in Brussels, E.U. officials are expected to announce soon whether to accept a proposed three-month Brexit extension.

Now to California, where wildfires are forcing thousands of people to evacuate and the governor to declare a state of emergency. Dry conditions and heavy winds are fueling flames that have scorched thousands of hectares.

The fires have also forced the state's largest utility company to cut power to nearly one million customers. Strong winds are expected to continue this week, which could mean even more outages.

The truck driver charged in the deaths of 39 people in the U.K. is due to appear in court in the coming hours. Twenty-five-year-old Maurice Robinson of Northern Ireland faces multiple charges, including manslaughter and conspiracy to traffic people. Some Vietnamese families fear their loved ones are among the dead.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Natalie Allen. I'll be back at the top of the hour with more news.

Now stay with us. Patrick Snell has WORLD SPORT next.

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