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Source Says Prosecutors Wary Of Giuliani Probe Colliding With 2020; Giuliani & Trump Maintaining Confidence In Each Other Amid Legal Landmines; GOP's McConnell Gives Blunt Advice To Trump; Ivanka Trump Quotes Thomas Jefferson To Defend Trump Amid House Vote; Homes Burn In California As Strong Winds Increase Fire Danger. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired October 31, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:32:29]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We have new reporting just into CNN about the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and what prosecutors are considering while examining his business dealings in Ukraine.
CNN's Kara Scannell is breaking the news.
Kara, what's going on?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Brooke, so sources tell us as prosecutors are looking into the business dealings of Rudy Giuliani, there's no certainty they're going to make a decision to charge him with anything. But they're looking at potential issues in the case and where the investigation could lead. A lot of people pointed to this foreign lobbying, the work Giuliani was doing.
But sources tell us prosecutors are mindful of the difficulties in bringing these types of cases. We've seen two of them. One individual was acquitted in D.C. Another case, that person was convicted but the judge overturned it.
There's reason why this statute, the FARA, hasn't been used many times, even though around for years. That's something they're mindful of.
If they were to move forward, there are a range of other potential crimes they could charge, if there's illegal conduct.
Another thing they're aware is of the election. That's an issue. You don't want to bring a criminal case right around the election.
BALDWIN: Critical time.
SCANNELL: Right. Comey's statements around the last president's election. Everyone has that high in their mind. It's an issue they're aware of.
The office for the Southern District in New York charged Michael Cohen about two and a half months before the midterm election. So it's not a stopper. They could either speed up the case or it slow it down.
But in all instances, they're really driven by the facts that they uncover in these investigations.
BALDWIN: Got it.
Kara, thank you.
Stay with all things Giuliani. And amid all the possible legal landmines, Giuliani and President Trump appear to be maintaining confidence in one another's loyalty.
The president tells "Time" magazine, quote, "Rudy Giuliani is a great crime fighter. He's always looking for corruption, which is what more people should be doing. He's a good man."
And Giuliani said, quote, "He" -- President Trump -- "is 100 percent in my corner and loyal to me, as I am to him."
My next guest co-authored the cover story of "Time" magazine's upcoming issue. She Vera Bergengruen. She is a Washington correspondent for "Time."
Vera, nice to have you on.
VERA BERGENGRUEN, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Thank you.
BALDWIN: You talked to a lot of administration officials that blamed Giuliani for -- almost everything. For putting the bug in the president's ear about Biden in the first place. Why do you think Giuliani is so confident?
BERGENGRUEN: He said he was doing what any good lawyer would do. He was very clear. I'm out there defending my client in my personal capacity as his personal lawyer.
[14:35:09]
That's actually where the problem is. Everyone can see it. The problem, he was going after all of these things that are loyal to the president.
At the same time, the president is telling U.S. and Ukrainian officials to stay in the U.S.' good graces they have to follow his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. That's the heart of the whole impeachment scandal.
BALDWIN: You know, as I was reading your piece, and the quote, "100 percent loyal," do you know who this made me think of?
Roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: The media has him wrong. He's a compassionate man. And he understands so much more than the media wants to give him credit for. And he will ultimately -- I've said it many times -- ultimately, go down in history as the greatest president.
I'm ashamed of my weakness and my misplaced loyalty of the things I did for Mr. Trump in an effort to protect and promote him. I am ashamed, because I know what Mr. Trump is. He is a racist. He is a conman. And he is a cheat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean, I'm just saying. If the president can turn on Michael Cohen, and Michael Cohen turns on the president, what is different, Vera, about Rudy Giuliani?
BERGENGRUEN: Right. A crucial difference here. Rudy Giuliani, really, I mean, the narrative he's out there doing Trump's dirty work as a fixer there, but really what many people close to the president are telling us, the president may not have realized that Giuliani was out there also following his own business interests.
He's out there kind of as the guy on TV defending, speaking for the most powerful person in the world and showing up all over the globe, as we trace in our story, kind of obviously doing his own business deals because, technically, he wasn't bound by the usual constraints.
In a way, that's a crucial difference, I think.
BALDWIN: I got it. Explaining the crucial problem with mixing politics versus money.
She co-authored the "Time" magazine cover story.
Vera Bergengruen, thank you very much.
BERGENGRUEN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: The president's daughter, Ivanka Trump, in her most forceful defense yet of her father in the impeachment inquiry, alluding today to being, quote, "surrounded by enemies and spies." We'll have that for you.
And in face-to-face meetings with the president, CNN is learning Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, had some pretty blunt advice for the president that his presidency really depends on.
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[14:42:10]
BALDWIN: New scoop today. CNN learned during the face-to-face meeting between Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and President Trump turns out Senator McConnell had blunt advice for the 45th president: stop attacking Senate Republicans. The same Senate Republican who would decide your fate in this impeachment trial.
The president has been critical of the GOP and calling out certain lawmakers, accusing them of not having his back.
Jamie Gangel is our CNN special correspondent and is breaking the story with Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us.
Tell me more about this conversation between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump and do you think the president will listen?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Always the question. So what do we know? We know that Mitch McConnell has been very frustrated with the president. We know the president discipline is not his strong suit. And he does not feel the members have been doing enough to defend him.
So I think Mitch McConnell, as you said, common sense. We went in there. He said to the president, look, these guys are going, men and women, are going to be your jurors. Stop it. Be nice to them. Now, will he listen? Let's wait and see.
As the facts roll out in the case, we really have to see whether they make both House members and Senate members think twice about what we know thus far.
BALDWIN: So what is President Trump doing to, maybe, I don't know, cushion, smooth the support?
(CROSSTALK)
GANGEL: Make a deal? Take a deal?
BALDWIN: Make a deal.
GANGEL: Make a deal. So this is what he knows how to do.
The way I put it was, are we seeing another quid pro quo? Which has become the term, because of the Ukraine phone call.
What he's basically doing is, he's saying, if you're for me, if you will sign a resolution saying the impeachment inquiry is bad, if you will defend me, if you will say I'm innocent -- I'm told he's gone to people saying, why talk about process? Get out there and say I'm innocent. Then what will I do? I'll give you money for your campaign.
Trump has been very successful. The White House very successful at raising a lot of money.
BALDWIN: They have deep pockets.
GANGEL: On the Hill, not so much. Especially vulnerable members. So there's a quid pro quo. You help me, I'll help you with some money for your campaign.
BALDWIN: Is it possible that some of these Republican Senators say, yes, I'll take the money right now, but depending what I hear, if there's a trial, I may change my mind. Can they do that?
GANGEL: Certainly, they can do that. So far, he hasn't asked anyone to sign a loyalty oath.
[14:45:08]
Here's the reality. First, it has to get -- the articles of impeachment have to pass in the House. It looks as if that's where it's heading.
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GANGEL: And then once they see the facts, if these Senators say, oh, this is laid out, these are the facts, this is a bright line, then I think it is possible that they would vote to remove him. But we are getting ahead of ourselves.
BALDWIN: Right. Putting the cart ahead of the horse here.
GANGEL: Right.
BALDWIN: Ivanka Trump tweeted today -- let me read it for you -- reaction to the House impeachment vote today. "Surrounded by enemies and spies. Catching every word that falls from my lips or flows from my pen and is inventing where facts fail them." That is a quote.
"Thomas Jefferson's reflections on Washington, D.C., in a letter to his daughter, Martha. And Ivanka writes, "Some things never change, Dad."
GANGEL: Yes, it jumped out at me. First of all, quoting Thomas Jefferson, someone went to some trouble to put that together. Ivanka has kept a very low profile on the whole impeachment question. I think this is the first social media post.
BALDWIN: Carefully choreographed?
GANGEL: I think, as much as her father seems to run away from discipline, what do we know about her? She's very disciplined. Very on message.
Also we know from White House insiders, she's one of the few people who can calm her father down.
This was a historic day. It was also a bad day in the White House and a bad day for Donald Trump.
BALDWIN: Jamie Gangel, thank you.
GANGEL: Sure.
BALDWIN: So as the U.S. House of Representatives escalates this impeachment investigation, what are voters in swing states saying about all of this? We asked them.
Plus, major concerns in southern California as these hurricane-force winds are still fanning the flames of wildfires and relief is far from sight. We take you there, live, coming up.
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[14:52:03]
BALDWIN: The first-ever extreme red-flag warning remains in place over southern California. Two new fires have erupted late yesterday hours after the fast-moving Easy Fire broke out threatening the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley. At least 10 brush fires burning now across the state.
There could be a break in the dangerous Santa Ana winds which will seriously help the overwhelmed firefighters. But urgent warnings for people to heed evacuation orders is still in place.
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KATHLEEN OPLIGER, DEPUTY CHIEF, SAN BERNARDINO FIRE DEPARTMENT: The fire moved so fast and has potential to move so quickly that if folks don't evacuate when we ask them to, it will be very difficult to try to get them out when the fire is moving towards their home.
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BALDWIN: CNN's Omar Jimenez is in San Bernardino at the site of the Hillside Fire with more on condition there's today.
Tell me some of the stories you're hearing from folks there.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The stories are absolutely heartbreaking. Stories of people getting woken up in the middle of the night to flames and, in some cases, having to grab what they could and scramble to their lives.
This is the aftermath of the Hillside Fire here in San Bernardino. This family literally had minutes to get out when they actually did.
And when you talk about the wind and extreme red-flag warning, we've been under, the potential for flames to break out and spread quickly. This is the fruition of something like that. This is exactly what officials feared in this.
A little while ago, we actually spoke to the owner of this home who he and his family smelled smoke in the middle of the night when this came through, around 2:30 in the morning here on Pacific time. He grabbed his family. They scrambled out of here yelling to neighbors to get out.
And when we asked him he, of course, was thankful he got his family out but there are things he wasn't able to get out as well.
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MATTHEW VAVICIA (ph), ESCAPED CALIFORNIA WILDFIRES: I would have been that person if my kids weren't home. You know? But at that point, I'll never risk my kids' lives in anything, and so, hey. If it burns it burns. Long as everybody's out of the House, that's all has matters. (END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: And one of the things he really got emotional about, also, part of that interview was he wasn't able to retrieve a laptop with his kids' baby pictures. Had no backups of those and began to get emotional of that. And as he said, those are things that can't be replaced but is happy to get out with his life.
When you look at a scene like this, it's remarkable that not the entire neighborhood is destroyed. You may be able to see the house across the street is fine. The other house across the street is fine.
That's partly because fire officials have been prepositioning resources all across southern California and in anticipation of the week we are going to have in regard to the winds, humidity and temperature conditions.
Firefighters were actually on the scene within minutes, even though this fire was moving extremely quickly.
And, of course, fire officials across the region working hard to get the other situations under control as well -- Brooke?
[14:55:09]
BALDWIN: Omar, just no words.
Omar Jimenez, you've been doing a phenomenal job for us in California covering those fires. Keep telling the stories, please.
Let's get you back to the breaking news today. The House holding its first impeachment vote and now the investigation will be going public.
Plus, he was on that phone call with the president and Ukraine's leader. The damning details the president's top Russia adviser is expected to corroborate.
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