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Steve Bannon Takes Stand at Roger Stone Trial; Key Witnesses Hill & Vindman Tie Mulvaney to Trump/Ukraine Meeting in Exchange for Probes; Attorney for Bolton Teases More Information on Meetings, Conversations; Mike Bloomberg Gears Up for Potential Presidential Run. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 08, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: We are now in the second phase of this trial, Ana, where prosecutors will outline very important and probably the most crucial point of this trial and really the most crucial point of why Roger Stone was charged and arrested.

It's now the phase concerning Roger Stone's contacts with the Trump campaign and his knowledge about WikiLeaks and what he was communicating to the campaign and claiming he was going to be able to get him some of the emails and information.

That is where Steve Bannon will play a big role. He's expected to testify about emails and about communication that he had with Roger Stone where Roger Stone was claiming to have access and information concerning what WikiLeaks was working on and some of the emails they were going to release.

Specifically, there was one email that Roger Stone said to Steve Bannon saying that he knew how to win, that it wasn't going to be pretty. And then Steve Bannon responded, "Let's talk ASAP." That is what he's going to testify.

It is probably "the" most crucial part of this case that is now getting under way at this afternoon -- Ana?

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Shimon Prokupecz, thank you. Keep us posted.

More on the breaking news. Any moment, in the impeachment inquiry of President Trump, two witnesses now tying quid pro quo efforts straight to the White House. Why chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, is now one of the people at the center of this scandal. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:29]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

New details to share with you as we pour through that transcript from key testimony in the impeachment inquiry. This is coming from President Trump's former top Russia adviser, Fiona Hill, and deals with a line of questioning she got from one of President's biggest defenders, Congressman Jim Jordan.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is looking at her transcript.

Kylie, fill us in.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: One thing we've watched over the past weeks, the shifting argument from Republicans trying to cast this whole impeachment inquiry as irrelevant, as not legitimate, going after the whistleblower, going after those who are providing testimony, you know President Trump saying they are Never-Trumpers.

One thing provided in this testimony provided by Fiona Hill is Congressman Jim Jordan making the argument, listen, we're having these discussions talking about this the last few hours. The bottom line is Ukrainians got their security assistance. Isn't everything just fine?

Also makes a point that President Trump and President Zelensky had a meeting in New York and hit it off. He kind of tries to teeter up there to say, yes, you're right.

That's not what she does. She said it depends what you mean with everything's OK. And with regard to the overall U.S./Ukrainian relationship, she says it's not OK.

She says, quote, "But in terms of the U.S./Ukraine relationship, no. I wouldn't say it worked out because we are now in the middle of a scandal about Ukraine."

"So the manner in which we got to this point has been extraordinarily corrosive. Removal of our ambassador, and what we had done, which is laying open what appears to have been an effort in which a number of unsanctioned individuals, including Ukrainian-American businesspeople, seem to have been involved in these efforts."

She really fights back at his characterization that none of this matters. It's all an ado about nothing. But she says U.S./Ukrainian relations have been hurt here.

And that is one of the key elements as we get further and further into what's going to go forth with regards to U.S./Ukraine policy. She tries to make the point this whole thing has been a real big problem for the relationship.

CABRERA: OK, Kylie Atwood, thank you for that update.

[14:38:58]

This just in. A lawyer for John Bolton, the president's former national security adviser, says his client may have knowledge of many relevant meetings and conversations that House investigators don't know about. We'll talk about that ominous suggestion, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CABRERA: More breaking news on the impeachment inquiry. John Bolton, former national security adviser, John Bolton, says he has knowledge of many additional meetings about Ukraine that House lawmakers still don't know about.

Kristen Holmes at the White House.

Kristen, what have you learned?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, this letter is coming a day after Bolton did not show up for his deposition from his attorneys to these House committees.

I'll read you a part of it and we'll get to what it means.

In the letter, "Ambassador Bolton, national security adviser to the president, and personally involved in many of the events, meetings and conversations about which you have already received testimony, as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in testimony so far.

Obviously a lot of news. The big thing, what exactly does Bolton know? And what doesn't the House know that Bolton knows here? A very important development.

[14:45:06]

But looking at the big picture here, we know these Hill committees were seeking out Bolton's testimony but didn't want to go to the courts for it. Essentially, this is saying, that they will have to, because lawyer says he will not testify unless a court orders him to do so.

Now the Hill committee has to come up with an idea to decide whether or not they want to actually take this to court, which could take a very long time.

We know there was already a date for Bolton's associate set for December. We know that Democrats, they want to wrap this up quickly. This would really prolong that process here.

But, again, a pretty tantalizing letter saying there's a lot of information that nobody knows.

CABRERA: No doubt about it.

Kristen Holmes, we don't know what "all about" is. Interesting to hear them tease he has something to share.

Thank you for that.

CNN law enforcement analyst, Josh Campbell, joins us, along with J.W. Barrett, assistant professor of law at George Mason University.

J.W., you were a member of Trump's transition team who now says he should be impeached. Why do you think the lawyer would send this? J.W. BARRETT, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF LAW, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: A

couple reasons he's hoping the House joins in court in his efforts to seek permission essentially from the court to go and testify. And I think he's hoping that the timeline of the impeachment proceedings is extended to incorporate time for that process to play out.

So I think it changes Nancy Pelosi's political calculation on when she encourages the committees to wrap this up and bring it to the floor. And I think it's worth another month or two.

She's obviously probably weighing things like the Democratic primary, things like that, for timing of release of a final report, and timing of an impeachment vote.

But based on this letter, give it a couple more months to play out certainly.

CABRERA: Josh, Bolton, of course, it's important because these heard these things from the president's mouth. Right?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Exactly. Key word here in this letter is "relevant." Information that's relevant to these ongoing proceedings. What House investigators are trying to get to.

If you go back, look at the origins involving Ukraine, so much of what we know involves written form, you know, the transcript, the rough transcript, text messages and the like.

John Bolton would be privy to the behind-the-scenes conversations, what was the president saying, what was people in his orbit saying. That's key.

That said, I'm still confused. American viewers probably exhausted by the game-show politics we continue to see. Teasing things and setting up the big reveal.

It confuses me why Bolton wouldn't just come out and talk to investigators. Why go through ought the machinations of the courts and the like? There's questions of privilege, I understand.

At the end of the day, he has something he thinks House investigators needs to know, it's incumbent for him to share that. I don't know about the lawyer setting up a tease to be litigated later on.

CABRERA: A quick follow, Josh, you are an investigator. Is Bolton's necessary at this point?

CAMPBELL: House Democrats, the calculus is, go to the courts, it will prolong this. We've seen them moving at lightning speed with the impeachment. It's a calculus and a determination they have to make. Is the testimony worth going through that process? Or will they just going to add this as another element of obstruction and simply move on? We have to wait and see.

CABRERA: J.W., what do you make of Mick Mulvaney now being connected by two officials to this quid pro quo effort? BARRETT: Yes. I think he's a loyal guy.

Look, a personal friend of mine. Offered me a job at the White House in OMB. Thank god, I turned that down. I think he's a nice guy. I wish the best for him. Sorry he got wrapped up in this.

If he's listening, Mick, get out of this, man. Time to resign and move on to something else in your career.

It's a shame he's wrapped up in this. Not clear he did anything illegal yet. Just cooperate on his own and go in, tell what he knows. Be forthright and complete in testimony to the Congress, and I think that the world will be kind to him.

It's not too late for him, but I'm -- I'm worried about him being wrapped up in this, frankly.

CABRERA: And you're a friend of his. Have you been in contact with him recently?

BARRETT: No. Since I've called for the president's impeachment in regard to the Mueller report, we have not been in contact.

CABRERA: J.W. Barrett, Josh Campbell, good to have your insights. Both of you. Thanks for being here.

BARRETT: Thanks.

[14:49:33]

We told you Steve Bannon just took the stand in the Roger Stone trial. What he said involves the 2016 election. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Back to the news about former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg who may be jumping into the 2020 Democratic presidential race. Bloomberg tried and failed in 2016 to win the Democratic nomination.

Here we are nearly four years later, he's waited until the absolute last minute to file. In case he decides he wants to run in 2020, does he even have a real chance?

Let's discuss with Democratic strategist, Bernard Whitman, a former Bloomberg and Clinton pollster. Also the co-author of "52 Reasons to Vote for Hillary."

Bernard, thanks for being here.

BERNARD WHITMAN, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER & DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST & AUTHOR: Good having me.

CABRERA: You have a past relationship with Bloomberg having been his pollster in 2009. What do you make of the move?

[14:55:06]

WHITMAN: First, I point out he didn't run in 2016. He chose not to. Shows an extremely high level of Democratic angst and not only among Democrats but fair-minded Republicans. Do we have the right person in the position to beat Donald Trump?

Two, shows the race is extremely unsettled even to this date.

And third, the battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party is on full view for everyone to see.

In large part, for two reasons. One, Joe Biden's performance less than stellar, inconsistent and a lot of people hoping for a solid centrist lane Joe Biden could occupy, unimpressed.

And, two, people are worried, scared, frightened, actually, Elizabeth Warren with $21 trillion price tag Medicare-for-All, according to a lot of people, might bankrupt the country and not be appeals to more centrist Democrats or Independents.

I think that's why Bloomberg is going to run.

CABRERA: And you say centrist Democrats being the people he's talking to here. Is there a candidate they're not attaching themselves to?

WHITMAN: I think many in the mainstream of the Democratic Party assumed it would be Joe Biden. I mentioned his performance on fundraising on the stump in debates has been a little off.

CABRERA: You have Mayor Pete, Amy Klobuchar.

WHITMAN: The biggest loser, other than Joe Biden, if Bloomberg choses to enter, is Mayor Pete Buttigieg. He is well positioned to take up a lot of voters Joe Biden might otherwise have got. And if Mike Bloomberg enters the race, it might pull from Buttigieg's voter turnout.

CABRERA: Do you think if he enters the race it could backfire in the sense if he is concerned about people like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, more progressive policies, maybe not encapsulating as many voters in the general election. Could it create that much more of a scar behind these candidacies?

WHITMAN: Honestly, Mayor Bloomberg is underestimated. He was the mayor of the largest city for 12.5 years. He's made incredible investments in working for gun safety, climate change, urban infrastructure, a lot of issues Democratic voters hold very dear. The idea he is sort of late to the stage is not borne out by the data.

CABRERA: Would he be prepared for this kind of scrutiny he would be under? He's obviously run campaigns multiple times here in New York City, which is the biggest city in the country, but the not, you know, in a national campaign.

WHITMAN: Look, I think, Mike Bloomberg has been on the stage more than two dozen years and I think well prepared. A different guy. Clearly, done a lot of work to understand there's a potential opportunity for him he. And he, like many Americans, are worried.

Poll after poll after poll shows one in five Democrats are concerned there's not a candidate for them in the race. Likely Democratic voters who glumly voted for Donald Trump and a couple million of them, majority of those voters who voted for Donald Trump, likely will vote in a Democratic primary if not satisfied with the choice of candidates.

Even on the Republican side, a lot of people, potentially, general election voters, are hoping someone will save them from the hell of Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Let me show you a poll. Because you're a pollster. From March. This is when it was still unknown and prior to really knowing his direction, when, announced he wasn't going to run, but asked in favorability, a question here and this is the result. Favorable rating 27 percent. Unfavorable 38 percent. That's upside-down.

WHITMAN: And also when not in the game, not in the race, not on television, not giving speeches and so forth. And unfortunately, he's been the subject indirectly of attacks by Elizabeth Warren sort of attacking corporations, attacking billionaires.

And I think Michael Bloomberg comes from a very different point of view. After all, he's one person who managed to bring a diversity like New York together after 9/11, working with business, working with interest groups and with constituents group and voters to actually get things done for the American people.

And four years of Donald Trump nearly, now three, the American people are ready for someone who can work together with a variety of coalitions and actually get things done on behalf of the American people.

Competence and experience are something Mike Bloomberg has in spades and it'll be a refreshing voice for the American people.

CABRERA: Why do you think Americans want another billionaire?

WHITMAN: Not another billionaire. They want competence. Someone to get things done, make changes, improves the lives of the working people.

They turn to people who have had success in business. A lot of people bought into the Donald Trump philosophy that he is the dealmaker in chief, and clearly that has failed on its face.

Mike Bloomberg has a much better track record to begin with, A, and, B, a demonstrated record of leadership in the most diverse city in the country, New York City, of making real change.

CABRERA: Yes or no, he gets in?

WHITMAN: Maybe.

[15:00:02] CABRERA: OK, maybe.

Thank you so much.

WHITMAN: Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: Good to have you with us, Bernard Whitman.

That does it for us on this Friday. Thanks for being here.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper" starts right now.