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All Eyes on the First Public Impeachment Hearings Against President Trump; Joe Biden's Poll Numbers in New Hampshire Narrow Down; Violence and Protests in Hong Kong No End in Sight; Islamic Jihad Leader Killed by Israeli Military; Mulvaney Seeks Court Ruling On Whether To Testify; White House Complains About Public Hearings; Democrats, President Trump Tried To Extort Ukraine; Pentagon Official Describes Confusion Over Ukraine Aid; Millions Could Watch Televised Hearings; Testimony Corroborates Quid Pro Quo With Ukraine; Rudy Giuliani's Shadow Diplomacy; President Trump And The Military; World War II Mystery Solved. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired November 12, 2019 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome back to our viewers here in the United States, and of course, all around the word. You are watching CNN Newsroom. And I'm Rosemary Church.

Coming up, Democrat released more transcripts from the impeachment inquiry into U.S. President Donald Trump just days ahead of the first public hearings.

Also, ahead, a closer look at the role of Rudy Giuliani. How the president's personal lawyer has emerged as a key figure in the Ukraine scandal.

Plus, Israel conducts a targeted strike killing a senior Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza, a move that could reignites tensions along the border.

Good to have you with us.

So, in the run up to public hearings in the U.S. impeachment inquiry, more transcripts of closed-door testimony have been released. They detailed the concerns of career diplomats and security officials about the Trump administration's Ukraine policy.

Senior Pentagon official Laura Cooper told investigators the delay of military aid to Ukraine created confusion and raise legal questions. Two former deputies to Ukraine, envoy Kurt Volker testified as well. Catherine Croft said she was nervous about taking the job, fearing the White House would change policy to suit domestic politics.

And Christopher Anderson said Volker told him President Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani would not move off pressuring Ukraine to launch investigations into the president's political rival Joe Biden. Well the public hearings begin Wednesday with appearance by three diplomats who have already testified behind closed doors.

Phil Mattingly has details on what's ahead.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lawmakers will arrive back in Washington, fully cognizant that in 24 hours they will have one of the biggest hearings that has happened in years, maybe even decades. The first official impeachment hearing, the first public impeachment hearing related to Donald Trump.

Two witnesses that are testifying State Department officials including William Taylor, the official top diplomat to Ukraine right now whose given explosives behind closed-door testimony. We've seen the deposition. We've read all through of the key points. And Democrats believe that he will be a central piece of their effort to potentially draft articles of impeachment and eventually impeach President Trump.

One Democrat I was talking to earlier today said this is an individual whose trade out of central casting, exactly who you would expect from a foreign service officer from a diplomat, and that's who Democrats want on the stand.

Now the strategy here is not to unearth something we haven't seen in the deposition. Again, we have thousands of pages of deposition over the course of the last couple of weeks. I think everybody's eyes are tired by now.

They want to paint the public picture. They want to make clear to the public what they believe they've seen behind the scenes that there is a narrative that threads together that lays out how problematic certain element of the U.S.-Ukraine policy was.

How the president and his team were operating sort of a shadow or rogue policy as it relate to Ukraine, and the real effort led in part by Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer to try and get a statement from the Ukrainians explicitly stating they would pursue investigations into Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden and to 2016 election theories that have yet been proven in exchange for either a White House meeting of the security assistance to Ukraine.

That is the goal for Democrats this week. To be able to paint the picture of what they've heard behind closed doors. Now Republicans have made clear they are also coming to these meetings prepared. They have been preparing pouring through transcripts, I'm told, trying to pick up holes that they've seen in witness testimony.

Trying to make clear that a lot of the witnesses, certainly the three you're going to hear from this week haven't had specific interaction with President Trump, haven't gotten specific orders from President Trump related to things Democrats allege he did.

All of this is going to play out in public. Now one key thing to keep an eye when these hearings launch the start of them. It's not going to be a traditional hearing. You're not going to be member by member five minutes at a time. No consistent narrative. People preening for the camera, if you will.

It will be 45 minutes for each side, Democrat, then Republican. And likely, the top Democrat or Republican will yield to staff counsel to ask the question. That means it could be a very explosive start to the hearings.

Again, there will be more than two hearings. One hearing starts on Wednesday, one on Friday, likely more next week. All of the things that people have been saying were happening behind closed doors are about to become live in living color on your TV screen. We want to see hoe everybody prepares and how everything kicks on Wednesday.

[03:05:04]

CHURCH: Michael Shear joins me now from Washington. He is a CNN political analyst and a White House correspondent for The New York Times. Good to have you with us.

MICHAEL SHEAR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. Always happy to do it.

CHURCH: So, hundreds of pages of new impeachment witness testimony were released Monday. What was the common thread running through what those career officials revealed? And what role did we learn about a previous hold on Ukraine military aid, apparently done to avoid angering Russia?

SHEAR: Right. So, I think the bigger picture, the answer to your first question is that I think the all three of these witnesses added more detail to the narrative that we already know. Which is, that the president and the people around him, in particular, Rudy Giuliani.

And some of the other officials who were working with Giuliani had pressured and had attempted to pressure Ukraine's government in order to, you know, help the president politically, and they did that by holding back military aid and by holding back the promise of a White House meeting.

And so, the witnesses that we learned of their testimony today didn't have any sort of shocking new revelations about that but added more detail, things about when the aid was held back, why it was held back, some of the concerns that were expressed about that. So that's the sort of big picture.

The second question you asked about the earlier hold there was referenced by one of the officials, a Pentagon official to an earlier effort by the administration to hold back some military aid for Ukraine back at the end of 2017, beginning of 2018 where a similar hold was put for about two weeks and that their aid didn't flow. It was javelin missiles that Ukraine had wanted.

And so, the question I guess that is left sort of tantalizingly from this information is, was this yet another instance and a much earlier instance than we knew about before where the administration was using aid to Ukraine to essentially, you know, pressure and to do the bidding of Russia which of course didn't want Ukraine to get that kind of weapons. CHURCH: Right. And of course, as you pointed out, the testimony so far

from these various witnesses seems to establish that a quid pro quo did in fact exist. And now Republicans are admitting that's probably the case, but they say it's not impeachable.

The president isn't happy with that approach because he still insists, he did nothing wrong. Who's right here? The Democrats, the Republicans or the president, and where does this take us?

SHEAR: Well, I think, you know, who's -- it's really hard to say who's right in the kind of ultimate sense, that will be a judgment that will be made after the impeachment process is finished, ultimately, by the American people in the election.

I think what you can say is that there's lots of evidence. There's a mountain of evidence suggesting that that kind of shakedown took place in which the president and his aides were trying to pressure Ukraine.

The Republicans are sort of casting about for what their best defense is. You know, they've had sort of been all over the map. Some of them have, as you say, have suggested, well, look, he did something wrong but it wasn't impeachable. Others have tried to actually defend him on the merits.

The president of course really wants people to simply join him in the kind of absolute rhetoric that he's been offering, which is to say, I did nothing wrong. The call was perfect. Nothing here to see, just move along. It's all a hoax. It's a scam. The problem is for some of these Republicans is I think they see the same evidence that the rest of us see and it makes them worry.

CHURCH: Right. And how much closer are we to establishing the roles played by the president in all this, as well as his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani?

SHEAR: Well, I mean, I think, you know, one of the big arguments that the Republicans are preparing to make on Wednesday when these public hearings begin and I talk to a bunch of Republicans over the course of the last several days.

One of the arguments they're preparing to make is, well, if there were things that happened that were inappropriate, the one thing that you don't have is a direct connection, people directly testifying about what Donald Trump did or said in those events.

Now, of course, we do have the telephone call that he made with President Zelensky, we have the transcript of that but their point is that a lot of the testimony of the people that are going to be testifying is second or thirdhand. Its people saying well, I heard someone told me that the president wanted this to be done.

And I don't know that that's going to be a really successful approach but that's definitely the approach you're going to hear a lot in the next several days. They're simply going to say this is all secondhand information and you can't impeach the president without having the direct knowledge.

[03:10:04]

CHURCH: We are all watching to see what comes next. Michael Shear, many thanks to you for breaking this all down for us. I appreciate it.

SHEAR: Certainly.

CHURCH: Turning to the race for the White House with less than 100 ways to go. For New Hampshire's Democratic primary a new poll shows former Vice President Joe Biden with a narrow lead in the state.

According to a new Quinnipiac University poll, Biden has 20 percent of Democratic voter support, with Senator Elizabeth Warren getting 16 percent. South Bend Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg at 15 percent, and Senator Bernie sanders 14 percent.

Meanwhile, at a CNN town hall on Monday night, Biden who continues to face attacks from President Trump over his son's Ukraine business dealings showed he is ready to fight back. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is Trump's modus operandi. Whenever it happens, whenever anything comes down on him, what does he do? He tries to find a scapegoat to avoid focus on him. That's what this is all about.

And I'll be darned if I'm going to let us take our eye off the ball. Did Trump commit impeachable offenses? He's indicted himself on the White House Lawn saying he did invite these people.

And by the way -- and he said he wants to deal with corruption. That's what it's all about. Well, Mr. President, release your tax returns. Show us what you've done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And Michael Bloomberg is also thinking about throwing his hat in the ring for the 2020 race. But the former New York City mayor has a radical plan. He's thinking about skipping early voting states like Iowa and New Hampshire and focusing on the states that vote on super Tuesday and beyond.

CNN's Jessica Dean has the details.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: If Michael Bloomberg ultimately decides to run for president in 2020 --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, CEO, BLOOMBERG L.P.: Good evening, everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: -- his road to the Democratic nomination will not go through Iowa. An adviser to the former New York City mayor says Bloomberg will employ a strategy that's never been successful in the history of modern presidential politics. Skip the early states in favor of focusing on super Tuesday states and beyond.

Drake University professor of politics, Arthur Sanders has studied presidential politics for decades, and believes Bloomberg has misread the current political landscape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR SANDERS, PROFESSOR OF POLITICS, DRAKE UNIVERSITY: Candidates since Jimmy Carter have understood that if you don't get into those early states and start developing momentum and getting the stories that you need, you're in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: The Iowa voters we spoke with said Bloomberg's decision to skip the Hawkeye state sends the wrong message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It says that he doesn't care about the Midwest and the heartland and all of the people and all the problems that affect more than just Iowans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: As Bloomberg look past Iowa and New Hampshire, Democratic candidate Julian Castro is questioning their status as first in the nation contest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN CASTRO (D), FORMER HUD SECRETARY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Demographically, it's not reflective of the United States as a whole. Certainly not reflective of the Democratic Party, and I believe that other states should have their chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Since 1972, Iowa has held the first Democratic nominating contest. Troy Price is the chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party and he says Iowans take their role in the primary process seriously.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY PRICE, CHAIRMAN, IOWA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I'll challenge anyone who makes comments like that to take a look and come to our events and hear what Iowans are asking about. Iowans ask the questions that are on the minds of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Regardless of any changes that may or may not come to Iowa future Democratic primaries, the fact of the matter is, in 2020, Iowa is going to play a very pivotal role. And polls right now suggesting it is a very close contest there with the top four candidates all kind of walk very close in with one another suggesting that come February this could be anybody's race.

In Grinnell, Iowa, Jessica Dean, CNN.

CHURCH: Jimmy Carter, the oldest living former U.S. President will undergo surgery in Atlanta in the coming hours to relieve pressure on his brain. The 95-year-old is said to be resting comfortably with his wife Rosalynn by his side. Carter was in hospital twice last month after falling in his home and has previously survived brain and liver cancer.

Israel maybe opening up a new campaign against Islamic Jihad militants. We report live from near the Israel-Gaza border with all the details on that.

And after a day of extreme violence in Hong Kong, the city's leader lashes out at protesters warning rioters are undermining their own quest for democracy.

Back with the details on that.

[03:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Well, we continue tracking developments in Gaza. That's where the Israeli military has killed a senior leader in the militant group Islamic Jihad. And this was the scene in Gaza City. Islamic Jihad said Bahaa Abu al-Atta was killed along with his wife.

Israel says he was responsible for rocket fire and he was plotting immediate attacks on Israelis. Syrian state media is also blaming Israel for an attack in Damascus. They say the son of a different Islamic Jihad leader was killed.

For more, CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us now live from near the Israel-Gaza border. Good to see you, Oren. So, what more are you learning about the killing of this senior Islamic Jihad militant in Gaza?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, this was carried out early this morning in what -- it was a targeted killing by the Israeli military one day acknowledge against the senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Bahaa Abu al-Atta.

And Israel in giving us information about the strike afterwards painting him as essentially a high-level rogue element. One who didn't listen to instructions from Iran or from others but who was in charge of firing some of the rockets, the isolated rockets or even iron rockets we've seen over the past few months. And one who was opposed to any sort of ceasefire or understanding between Gaza and Israel.

[03:20:07] Israel carried out the strike this morning. And shortly after that rocket fire began from Gaza. As of the latest update from the Israeli military, there have been some 50 rockets launched from Gaza and we continue to get the red alerts that signal or potential incoming rocket fire Israel's Iron Dome aerial defense system has intercepted 20 of those.

This of course, shatters a tense situation and threatens to ignite a tensed situation along the Israel-Gaza border and that's what we're monitoring here. How does Gaza and the militant groups inside of Gaza take this and how does Israel respond.

So far Hamas and other militant groups inside of Gaza have said they vow revenge for the killing of Bahaa Abu al-Atta. His funeral concluded it was ongoing just a short time ago.

So, this is one of the crucial periods we'll see when an escalation might take place.

In regards to Syria, that was from state-run news agency SANA. And they blamed Israel for an attack against an Islamic Jihad leader there, and although it failed to kill the Islamic Jihad leader it did kill his son. Israel would not comment on the report but it does seem to indicate a move against Islamic Jihad's leadership both here, and perhaps in Syria on the part of Israel.

Why might that be, Rosemary? Well, I have spoken to Israeli military official over the past, of course, over the past year and a half or so. Israel believes it can work in a way with Hamas, it can reach ceasefire understandings with Hamas between Israel and Gaza but not with the Islamic Jihad that is determined to upset any sort of understandings. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And this is the worry, isn't it, what this may trigger for the border region, but also beyond.

LIEBERMANN: Of course. And that's what we'll have to see. Does fighting in the south spillover into some sort of response from the north, especially with the attack attributed to Israel that occurred in Damascus in Syria, do this connect?

And that's always been a fear here that the southern frontier could ignite the northern frontier or else when it comes to Israel, or perhaps even targets against Israeli building or, for example, diplomatic offices abroad. And that will be another question the Israeli government has to face.

Meanwhile, in terms of what's happening here, there have been two killings report of inside of Gaza because of that strike against Bahaa Abu al-Atta. There have been two lightly injured from rockets inside of Israel. As essentially, central and southern Israel remain shut down at this point.

Schools have been closed, non-essential has been closed, and people would have to run to bomb shelters as the rockets have been incoming. And as we await what we expect will be an Israeli response to the rocket fire.

CHURCH: All right. Our Oren Liebermann, do stay safe. Reporting there live from the Israel-Gaza border. I appreciate that.

Well protesters are against squaring off with police in Hong Kong. We have seen fire and tear gas over the past couple of hours. In fact, looking at live pictures here.

And it follows even more extreme violence on Monday. That is when a police officer shot a protester with a live round and a man was set on fire after confronting protesters.

Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam has said the violence exceeds protesters demand for democracy, calling them enemies of the people.

And for more, CNN's Ivan Watson joins us now live from Hong Kong. So, Ivan, what is happening on the streets of Hong Kong at this hour? What are you seeing?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the second day of what demonstrators have called a general strike. So, a little bit more than an hour ago they had set up a flash mob you can call it, that had blockaded the street, blocked public transports and were chanting.

I saw some demonstrators smashing traffic lights with poles and spray painting on the ground fight for freedom five demands, things like that. Their slogans. Then the police came in fired several rounds of tear gas.

I saw them detain perhaps 20 people right around here and go through their belongings bit by bit and block off the road. You can see up here this is a pedestrian overpass between shopping malls high-end luxury brands and stores here where people have just kind of been watching this street drama play out in front of them.

Another interesting observation here as this has gone into nearly five months, Rosemary, is the police. Almost all of them have their faces covered now. One of the complaints that the police have had is that they've been doxed. Their private information being published by the opposition.

I don't know if you're up to date with latest HBO show. It looks like an episode of "Watchmen" in Hong Kong these days as the police hide their identity from the public and from the cellphones that crop up.

We have heard signs of people in the crowd coming up yelling at the police. One man was detained for yelling something at the police. As this thing has gone on this political crisis, both sides have grown far less tolerant of each other.

[03:25:06]

Both sides engage in violence much more often. And here is probably the worst thing for Hong Kong as it is plunge into economic recession. There is no end to this political crisis in sight, apparently. The government hasn't come up with any real new ideas or dialogue. The

protesters have dug in. It is a low-level urban war of attrition being waged in the canyons of an international financial hub. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Ivan Watson bringing us that live update from the streets of Hong Kong as we look at these live pictures. Many thanks.

Well, former Bolivian President, Evo Morales is on his way to asylum in Mexico. He led Bolivia for nearly 14 years but was forced to step down after weeks of protests over election fraud. His departure leaves the country in chaos with no current leader and vandalism on the streets.

Meanwhile, on Monday night, Bolivia's defense minister stepped down, one of many key officials to leave office since Morales resigned. And Jeanine Anez, the second vice president of Bolivia's Senate is calling for lawmakers to meet Tuesday to discuss the next steps.

In Australia, Queensland and New South Wales are facing catastrophic fire danger. Sydney is at especially high risk. It's the first time the city has seen such a high threat level since the fire warning system was put in place back in 2009.

At least 71 bush fires are burning in New South Wales. The smoke is so intense you can see it from space and it's drifted all way to New Zealand. Three people have been killed and more than 100 homes lost over the past week.

Well if you're watching internationally, thank you so much for being with us. Inside Africa is up next for you. And if you're joining us from here in the United States, do stay tuned. We will have more news for you after this short break.

[03:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Rosemary Church. House Democrats are not asking Mick Mulvaney to testify publicly in the impeachment inquiry of Donald Trump. But the White House chief of staff still wants a court to decide whether he has absolute immunity in the impeachment probe. Meanwhile, team Trump is laying out its strategy for Wednesday's public hearings and not exactly in line with Republicans in Congress. CNN Jim Acosta, has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As public hearings loom in the impeachment inquiry President Trump is pleading with Republicans not to stray from talking points on his phone call with leader of the Ukraine, tweeting the call to the Ukrainian president was perfect. Republicans don't be led into the fool's trap of saying it was not perfect but is not impeachable. No one is much stronger than that. Nothing thing was done wrong. White House Press Secretary, Stephanie Grisham, wo is yet to hold a briefing with reporters complained about the inquiry on Fox. Arguing that the public hearings this week won't be open enough.

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are public hearings starting this week that clearly they are not going to be public, because we don't get to have anybody from our side out there to tell our side of the story. So, this is going to be -- excuse me, more of the same as last week. We don't expect anything different.

ACOSTA: Also sharpening their message, Democrats who are insisting that Mr. Trump did something far worse than engage in a quid pro quo and seeking dirt on Joe Biden.

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: When you're trying to persuade the American people of something that is really pretty simple which is the president acted criminally and extorted in the way a mob boss would extort somebody, a vulnerable foreign country. It's probably best not to used Latin words to explain it.

ACOSTA: It was Mulvaney who essentially conceded there was a quid pro quo. Adding, get over it.

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Mick Mulvaney has put himself in the center of this controversy. And therefore, I think he needs to account for himself.

ACOSTA: There are also questions about the future of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the Ukraine adviser who testified in the inquiry and was blasted as a never Trumper by the president. The national security adviser hinted Vindman may leave his position at the National Security Council.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But his time is coming to an end.

ROBERT O'BRIEN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: there will be point for everybody who's detailed there, that their detailed come to an end. They'll go back to their agency.

ACOSTA: And there's a reminder of the turmoil in the administration that existed long before the impeachment inquiry began. As former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley writes in a new book that former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and ex-Chief of Staff, John Kelly, tried to recruit her to undermine the president to quote, save the country.

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Instead of saying that to me. They should have been saying that to the president. Not asking me to join them on their side bar plan. It should have been go tell the president what your differences are and quit. If you don't like what he's doing. But to undermine a president, is really a very dangerous thing.

ACOSTA: As for Alexander Vindman, a senior administration said, the lieutenant colonel remains on the job at the National Security Council. The official said Vindman would likely cycle out of that position at the National Security Council when it's a scheduled time to leave.

Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: My next guest is Ross Garber. He's a CNN legal analyst. He also teaches political investigations and impeachment law at Tulane Law School. Thank you so much for joining us.

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, TULANE IMPEACHMENT LAW PROFESSOR: Ross grabber, CNN legal analyst: It's good to be with you.

CHURCH: Now, we saw critical testimony released Monday. Just two days before the impeachment inquiry goes public and top U.S. Diplomat to Ukraine, Bill Taylor will kick it off, Wednesday. And we have all read his testimony so far. And so what can we expect to come out of his public appearance and what will you be looking out for?

GARBER: Yes. So, what we know from his prior testimony is that Ambassador Taylor was disturbed, concerned, alarmed, by what he saw from the president Ukraine policy. So, I expect he's going to echo that during his public testimony. What I'm looking for is a couple of things. One is, how the testimony is presented. Is it presented in a way that is compelling for the American people? As you know, at the United States has never removed a president from office through the impeachment process and so, you know, one of the questions will be, you know, for me is the testimony presented in a compelling way. And are there any surprises. You know, we have now seen Ambassador Taylor's testimony from before. Is there anything that is going to come out that we don't know already?

[03:35:09]

CHURCH: How do you present it in a compelling way? What you suggest if you were able to advise the impeachment inquiry? How do they do that?

GARBER: Yes, look, I think that's actually going to be a challenge. The way that the process is played out so far, it makes it a little bit difficult, because he's already testified before. And the transcript of the testimony has already been released.

You know, one thing I think that is going to need to happen is that his testimony presented in a very, very straightforward, easy to digest way. There can't be a lot of sort of (inaudible) information. It's got to be presented in a way that connects with the American people and that means straightforward. You know, hard hitting and again, you know, is compelling as possible. You want to humanize Ambassador Taylor. Build his credibility and then have people believe what he has to say. And if you're among House Democrats you want people to come away concerned about what he has to say.

CHURCH: Right, and as you say. I mean, it is just quite the challenge, isn't it? Because then on Friday we will hear from former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch. And like Bill Taylor, we already know what she has revealed. So how significant will her public appearance be and presumably you would suggest the same thing. Make this as compelling and easy to digest as possible. GARBER: Indeed, but with her it's a little bit different, because I

think for her, it's less about the facts. She was the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine who was recalled by order of the president. And I think with her with the House Democrats are going to try to do is make her seem like a very steady, compelling expert figure. And have the public -- the American public wonder why it was that she was recalled. You know, did the president have a good reason for recalling her or was there something nefarious or improper going on. So, for her, less about the facts and I think more about her personally.

CHURCH: Right and most of the impeachment inquiry testimony that we have read so far appears to establish that there was a quid pro quo, involving Ukraine military aid being provided in exchange for an investigation into Mr. Trump's political rival. And this is what accounting White House Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney has previously said about that. Let's bring that sound up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: President Trump is not a big fan of foreign aid. He never has been, still is. He doesn't like spending money overseas. Especially when it's poorly spent. And that is exactly what drove this decision. I have been in the office a couple times with him talking about this. He says look, Mick, this is a corrupt place. Everybody knows it is a corrupt place. That he also mentioned to me in the past that the corruption related to the DNC server. Absolute, no question about that, but that's it. That's why we held up the money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So, Mulvaney admitting pretty much and he has previously said specifically yes, this was a quid pro quo. And we know the testimony backs that up. But Republicans are now saying that's not an impeachable offense. What is the legal argument on that? And how do you establish the president's role in all this?

GARBER: Yes. So, there's a lot sort of bundled into that. And you know, that Mick Mulvaney then issued a statement and tried to walk back, you know, what we just heard him say. I'm not sure that is going to be a very good argument. I think where the Republicans are trying to go on this is that for or an impeachable offense it has under our constitution be treason, bribery or another high crime or misdemeanor. In other words something incredible serious that affects the office. And I think, what the Republican are going to say is this doesn't rise to that level. And that the extent the president was involved in it, he had intentions that were sort of for the public good. I think, that's going to be the Republican's argument.

CHURCH: All right. But from your legal perspective, does it -- is it impeachable?

GARBER: Well, I'll be very interested to see how the testimony comes out. So far, the White House has not offered, kind of a cohesive cogent defense to this. And in part because that -- I think they feel like they haven't had to yet. So, right now what we're seeing is a prosecution case. I think we are -- we'll be interested to see what the defense case up is. What does the president and his people have to say about what happened here? We haven't really heard that yet.

CHURCH: All right, Ross Garber, thank you so much for talking with us. I appreciate it.

[03:40:00]

GARBER: It's good to be with you.

CHURCH: And with the Trump impeachment inquiry set to go public, CNN is looking into Rudy Giuliani's shadow diplomacy. It turn out, Ukraine isn't the only place where the president's personal lawyer is exerting his influence. Back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well, the Trump impeachment inquiry has put intense scrutiny on Rudy Giuliani's efforts in Ukraine. But that's not the only country where the president's personal lawyer has exerted his influence. Here's CNN's senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: When Brazil president attended the U.N. general assembly in late September, he was recovering from surgery only on the ground for 30 hours. He reportedly didn't meet with any heads of state. He did however meet with Rudy Giuliani.

It's a prime example of how Giuliani's position as President Trump's pro bono lawyer has given him unprecedented access to foreign leaders and how those leaders treat him as a representative of the president. A CNN review find Giuliani has met or communicated with top government officials of at least seven countries since becoming trump's attorney. His actions so troubling, sources inside the U.S. State Department tell CNN, they tracked Giuliani's comments which sometimes contradict U.S. policy.

ANDREW MILLER, FORMER U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: There are those from the State Department and the professional U.S. National Security Apparatus who view Giuliani as a shadow Secretary of State.

GRIFFIN: Giuliani left public office as New York's mayor back in 2001. Since then he's made millions in speaking fees and security and safety consulting contracts all over the globe. But being associated with Donald Trump has opened new doors at the top levels.

[03:45:00]

He traveled to Uruguay, where he met with the president. He got rare access to the King of Bahrain and the crowned prince and sat down with the defense secretary of Armenia. Usually introduced or referred to as President Trump's adviser and in almost every case, there is something else. The president's unpaid trusted adviser is seeking to cash in. Security contracts in Bahrain, hired in Uruguay. Speaking fees in Armenia. The former State Department official Andrew Miller, says it's hard to tell who Giuliani works for and foreign governments are taking no chances.

MILLER: It is dangerous when you have someone who is interests are not aligned with the U.S. and that makes it a possibility that there is going to be some type of compromising of U.S. National Security interest.

GRIFFIN: The top example so far is Ukraine. Where Giuliani was paid $500,000 by a shady businessman who wanted the U.S. Ambassador ousted. Giuliani convinced President Trump to get rid of her and also pushed for a Ukrainian investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter. But it's not the only example where Giuliani's business interest contradicted or directed U.S. foreign policy.

In Romania, he was paid to write a letter in support of a corrupt businessman, in direct contrast with U.S. policy of urging Romania to crack down on corruption.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was Mr. Giuliani basically siding with the crooks.

GRIFFIN: In Albania, he advocated for regime change in Iran. This is also not the official policy of the United States.

Hi, Mr. Giuliani, Drew Griffin with CNN.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Yes sir. How are you?

GRIFFIN: Asked this week about cashing in on the Trump presidency. Giuliani became defensive.

GIULIANI: That is a totally unfair question, (inaudible) expect it from the corrupt news network and the reality is that everything I have done is totally legal.

GRIFFIN: Senator Tom Udall, is one of the half dozen Democrats in the Senate asking the Department of Justice, if Giuliani's actions and failure to register under the foreign agents act is breaking the law.

SEN. TOM UDALL (D-N.MEX): With what we see out there, and the multiple clients around the world. His meetings with the Trump administration, with the president. With various administration officials. There's no doubt that I think that there's a real issue here.

GRIFFIN: Giuliani insists he is only guilty of one thing. Defending the president.

GIULIANI: I am in private law practice. I practice law honorably and well. Never had a complaint, never had an issue ever in 50 years in private law practice. And I am being targeted by CNN. Because I'm proven that you are corrupt in coverage of the president, all throughout this impeachment. GRIFFIN: And it's not just Democrats who are concerned about what

Rudy Giuliani was doing in Ukraine. Fiona Hill, President Trump's former top adviser to Russia reportedly testified she had concerns about what Giuliani was doing. Telling investigators, I was extremely concerned that whatever it was Mr. Giuliani was doing, might not be legal. Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

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CHURCH: And if you want to know more of what Rudy Giuliani thinks about the impeachment inquiry. Well, you may be in luck. He's spokeswoman confirms he is considering launching a pod cast to provide analysis of the public hearings. With four or five episodes before the start of the Senate trial. Giuliani is also planning two op-eds for major newspapers to explain why he thinks the president is unimpeachable.

Well, Donald Trump typically has a good relationship with the men and women of the U.S. Military. But not everything went smoothly during his Veterans Day visit to New York. That's next on CNN Newsroom.

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[03:50:00]

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Developing story we are following right now. Jimmy Carter the oldest living former U.S. President will undergo surgery in Atlanta in the coming hours, to relieve pressure on his brain. The 95 year-old is said to be resting comfortably with his wife, Roselyn by his side. Carter was in hospital twice last month after falling in his home. And has previously survive brain and liver cancer.

Well, the current U.S. president is honoring the man and women of America's military, but Donald Trump's visit to New York for the annual Veterans Day parade was not without dissent. CNN's Barbara Starr, reports from the Pentagon.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those who threaten our people don't stand a chance against the righteous might of the American military.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump sticking to prepared remarks on Veteran's Day.

TRUMP: You are America's greatest living heroes.

STARR: When he appears before troops the president is cheered. But for some this Veterans Day appearance did go down well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have the most divisive president in my lifetime. So by showing up, he is politicizing it.

STARR: The president did salute families of the fallen. TRUMP: To every gold star family, we will stand by your side forever.

STARR: In 2016, Trump attacked a gold star parents of an army captain, killed in Iraq in 2004.

TRUMP: His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably -- maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say.

STARR: Mrs. (inaudible), she couldn't speak. She was still overcome with grief at her son's death. Impeachment signs in the windows in New York with a military presence. Even as the Pentagon has tried to stay out of the impeachment inquiry. But there is growing unease about what it seen as the president's impulse of national security decisions.

TRUMP: I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me. I would bomb the (BEEP) out of them.

[03:55:03]

STARR: But with ISIS largely defeated, the president is going a step further.

TRUMP: But we are leaving soldiers to secure the oil. Now we may have to fight for the oil.

STARR: The Pentagon has identified Russia as a major challenge to national security. But Trump now considering Vladimir Putin's invitation to stand in Moscow's Red Square for the next May Day parade of Russian military might.

TRUMP: I was invited. I'm thinking about it. That right in the middle of our campaign season. But I am thinking I would certainly think about it.

STARR: CNN has learned that at least two senior military officers were reluctant to appear alongside the president at public events worried that he would make partisan political remarks. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: An under Sea Explorer and his team have found a U.S. Submarine missing since World War II. It's been 75 years since the USS Grayback sank with 80 sailors on board. It turn out, the U.S. Navy made a mistake in translating Japanese war records on where the sub had likely sunk. And now the Grayback has been found off the coast of Okinawa, in Japan. Family members of those lost on the Grayback say, the discovery gives them a sense of comfort and closure.

And you have been watching CNN Newsroom. Thanks so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Early Start is coming up next.

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