Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

White House Budget Official Breaks Ranks, Testifies Behind Closed Doors; Democrat Defeats Trump Ally in Deep Red Louisiana; Hong Kong Police Officer Shot with Arrow during University Siege; Wisconsin Voters Mostly Unmoved by Televised Hearings; Venice Flooding; Saudi Aramco Plans Stock Market Debut; Motorola Flip Phone Returns as Smartphone. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired November 17, 2019 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Three closed-door depositions shed new light on Donald Trump's dealings with Ukraine.

A new front-runner among the Democrats in Iowa.

And protests in Hong Kong turn violent again. A police officer hit by an arrow.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. We're live. Atlanta. I'm Michael Holmes from CNN World Headquarters.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: White House insiders are telling Congress disturbing new details about President Trump's now infamous phone call with Ukraine's leader last July. Those revelations include how the call transcript ended up on a highly classified server and who blocked $400 million in military aid to Ukraine.

On Saturday a senior White House budget official told lawmakers he was confused why the aid was put on hold. A source familiar with Mark Sandy's testimony says a Trump political appointee apparently took control of the Ukraine account outside the normal budget process and then signed documents, freezing the funds.

Also on Saturday, transcripts from two earlier depositions were made public. CNN's Lauren Fox with those details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On Saturday, we got new details about Tim Morrison, a former NSC official, who testified to congressional investigators last month that he came to understand that E.U. ambassador Gordon Sondland was getting direction from president Donald Trump when he was pushing the Ukrainians to announce investigations into the president's political rivals. Morrison testified behind closed doors that he believed that Sondland

and President Trump had spoken approximately five times between July 25th, the date of that phone call between President Zelensky and President Trump, and September 11th, when nearly $400 million in U.S. military aid to Ukraine was finally released.

He said in one of those conversations, he spoke directly with Gordon Sondland after Sondland had gotten off the phone with President Trump. Here's what he testified.

Quote, "He told me he had just gotten off the phone with the president. He told me, as it relates to Ambassador Taylor's statement, there was no quid pro quo but President Zelensky must announce the opening of the investigations and he should want to."

Now Tim Morrison also provided more details about the July 25th phone call, especially the fact that was put in a secure server. There are questions, of, course why it was put in that server. But Morrison said he came to understand from the top NSC lawyer that it had been put there by mistake. Here's what he told investigators.

Quote, "John Eisenberg relayed that he did not ask for it to be put in there but that the executive secretariat staff misunderstood his recommendation for how to restrict access."

Now this is a reminder that, next week, both of these individuals, Tim Morrison and Gordon Sondland, will testify publicly in front of these congressional investigators and the American public -- for CNN, on Capitol Hill, Lauren Fox.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And joining me now, Natasha Lindstaedt, professor of government of the University of Essex in England.

Good to see you, Professor. We have this testimony from two more people Saturday. One calling the Trump-Zelensky call unusual and concerning. And also more concerns about the role of E.U. ambassador Gordon Sondland.

What is the impact of their testimony, is it becoming a cumulative effect, given the number of people testifying?

NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: I think there is and we're just seeing how extensive this push was to try to get the Ukrainians to investigate the Biden.

And we're also learning a lot more about Gordon Sondland's role in all of this, that he was the key link between the president and the Ukrainians and that he, many people had heard -- or I should say, Tim Morrison had heard from Sondland that U.S. aid to Ukraine was conditioned upon Ukraine announcing this investigation and that Sondland was actually acting at Trump's direction.

And we learned more about this irregular foreign policy channel. We had heard from other people they thought that Giuliani was leading this. In Morrison's testimony, he said Sondland was chiefly leading on this and that this irregular foreign policy channel was not the normal process, that this was a real problem.

So there's going to be a lot of questions for Sondland when he testifies.

HOLMES: Absolutely. It says things -- the walls are starting to crumble a bit. President Trump said he hardly knew Gordon Sondland, yet, he can call the president from a cell phone in a Ukrainian restaurant.

And Morrison saying he understood Sondland had talked to the president many times and Sondland said he believed and related to me that the president was giving him instruction. Yet, Trump says he hardly knows the man.

LINDSTAEDT: Right. And I don't know how we could really believe that he hardly knows him when Sondland, on July 26th, placed a phone call and was directly able to talk to him.

[04:05:00]

LINDSTAEDT: And that they had this very audible conversation about highly sensitive issues.

I mean, I think we can see from all the witness testimonies thus far that Sondland and Trump had a close relationship because Sondland was moved from being the U.S. ambassador to the E.U. to being this main foreign policy negotiator on Ukraine, which is not part of the European Union, and that he was having these visits to Ukraine and that he was acting at the behest of the president and seemed to know a lot of information about what Trump wanted and what he wanted the Ukrainians to do.

And so getting back into the testimony that's going to happen on Wednesday, Sondland's going to have so many questions to answer because originally he testified very differently. And then he changed his mind and never mentions his July 26th phone call.

HOLMES: Yes. And take that further. He's already offered up two versions under oath, which the first one was then amended by a second one, then being questioned on the veracity, whether he may have even lied under oath.

What is he facing in terms of potential jeopardy when it comes to version three?

I mean, I suppose he's got the option of pleading the Fifth but that's not going to look good.

LINDSTAEDT: Well, he faces some huge risks here. He could perjure himself. That could get him in big trouble. And I don't think he was prepared for what he was getting himself into when he took on this role of not just being the ambassador to the E.U. but acting as the key agent in this foreign policy, this irregular foreign policy channel. And he's going to have to decide if he's going to want to remain loyal

to Trump, which I think was what he was originally doing, to whether or not he wants to testify, according to the second version, which corroborated all of this testimony.

He now knows all this testimony that has taken place. That's going to be very difficult to refute and that he places himself in danger of perjuring himself if he decides to be incredibly loyal to Trump and go with the first version, which is -- there's no quid pro quo, nothing to worry about here.

So he would be taking on a huge risk if he decides to remain super loyal to Trump and not reveal what happened, in particular on the July 26th phone call.

HOLMES: Natasha Lindstaedt, appreciate your insights. Please sit tight. We're going to come back to you in a couple minutes, Professor, with more questions about other things.

And let's turn to those things.

Democrats who think they can defeat President Trump next year, after weeks of more or less static standings among the top tier candidates, Pete Buttigieg is having a breakout moment in Iowa. CNN's Jeff Zeleny with the latest polling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's a new Democratic front-runner in the 2020 race in Iowa. His name is Pete Buttigieg. For the first time the South Bend, Indiana, mayor holds a clear lead among voters who say they are likely to participate in the Iowa caucuses.

He climbs to 25 percent in a new CNN/"The Des Moines Register" Iowa poll. Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are all locked in a three-way race for second place.

Amy Klobuchar, the only other candidate to break out of the lower tier, with 6 percent. Take a look at how the race has changed since only September. Buttigieg rising 16 points while Warren and Biden have slipped. Sanders and Klobuchar have increased.

But the race remains fluid with 30 percent saying they've made up their minds but still 62 percent of likely Iowa caucusgoers say they could still choose another candidate. That, of course, gives a sense of hope to more than a dozen other Democrats still in the race here.

Now this is why second choice is so important. Elizabeth Warren is the second choice of 20 percent of likely caucusgoers, followed by Buttigieg at 14 percent with Sanders and Biden each at 13 percent.

But electability is a critical question for Democrats. That remains the core bit of Biden's strength of the four top candidates tested, a majority, 52 percent, say Biden could beat Trump. The rest do not reach the majority point. This is where the race is standing right now. There is a sense of

pragmatism hanging over Iowa voters: 63 percent say they prefer a candidate with a strong chance to beat Trump compared to 32 percent, who prefer someone who shares all their views.

The race is now, some 80 days before the voting begins in 2020. Now the question for Buttigieg is, how does he handle the pressure of being a front-runner? -- Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: In Louisiana, Democrats celebrating a significant win and a setback for President Trump. The incumbent Democratic governor, John Bel Edwards narrowly beat his Republican challenger who was heavily backed by the president.

[04:10:00]

HOLMES: Mr. Trump won Louisiana in 2016 by a crushing 20 points and held two rallies in the state over the past 10 days to support the Republican candidate.

Let's go back to Natasha.

Thanks so much for sticking around. Pete Buttigieg is leading the pack.

How important is it?

On what do we read into an Iowa poll?

The national polls do look very different.

LINDSTAEDT: Right. This is one of the most interesting primary races we have seen because there has been so much movement going on. Biden had been in control and leading the race for a long time.

What we are seeing with Iowa is Buttigieg resonates with the Midwest voters. He has a centrist agenda that is appealing, his military background and he's doubled his on-the-ground staff.

The other thing to mention is that Pete Buttigieg has difficulty attracting minority voters. That's been his one weakness. He doesn't seem to appeal as much as some of the other candidates to Hispanic and African American voters.

Iowa is 91 percent white. This is just one state. He has to win over many different states with many different demographic patterns. That might be more of a challenge at the national level.

HOLMES: Good point. This Louisiana governor's race that was decided on Saturday, fascinating really. The Democratic incumbent Edwards beating out the Republican challenger.

This is a deeply red state. Donald Trump invested an awful lot in this race. Two rallies in two weeks, three in the last five weeks, a whole bunch of tweets leading up to the actual vote.

Do you think the result is a reflection on the president's problems or perhaps more of a local issues election?

LINDSTAEDT: Well, it's hard to say. But we do see a pattern occurring. When he has really stumped for people, whether it was the Senate race in Alabama or the governorship in Kentucky, these races haven't been won by the people that he has backed.

Louisiana was a state that, in 2016, Trump won by 20 percentage points. It was a huge margin for him. But that wasn't going to be enough for the Republican to defeat the incumbent John Bel Edwards.

John Bel Edwards was a relatively popular governor. He had over 50 percent approval rating and still won by a close margin. But I think we can take away a couple of things. This was a fairly popular governor. But it may not help Republicans to have Trump be on the campaign trail for them.

HOLMES: Yes, it's interesting. He is a popular governor. Also he's not your typical Democrat. He is very strong on Second Amendment, pro-life and leans right on a lot of issues that Democrats would lean left on. So there is that aspect which helps his popularity in a deeply red state.

When it comes to the president, this, for a man who takes pride -- he's always bragging about turning around races and that it's him that does it -- it's a real smack to the ego. He has been booed at a couple of sports events lately and so on.

LINDSTAEDT: Right. We don't have any proof that he has an impact on these other races in a positive way.

HOLMES: Right.

LINDSTAEDT: He has his own appeal and developed his own, what some say, is cult of personality for those who love him and will love him no matter what he says. That doesn't seem to translate in supporting these other candidates. They don't have that same type of mysticism that he seems to have.

He is a largely unpopular president if you look at the national polls. His poll ratings have never gone much higher than 40 percent. That is something that he doesn't seem to be aware of because he keeps campaigning in these stronghold areas to these arenas, where he has all of these adoring fans.

This magic touch he thinks he has on other candidates may not be working.

HOLMES: Dangers of an echo chamber. Professor Natasha Lindstaedt at the University of Essex, thanks so much.

LINDSTAEDT: Thanks for having me.

HOLMES: The U.S. president surprised those track his every move by going to the hospital unexpectedly on Saturday. He went to the Walter Reed Medical Center in Maryland to begin some procedures, including lab tests as part of his annual regular physical.

Previous exams had been announced ahead of time, though. The White House insists is healthy and energetic.

We'll take a short break on the program.

[04:15:00]

HOLMES: When we come back, protesters in Iran denounce a hike in fuel prices. But the controversial move gets the support of a major figure in the country. We will tell you who that is.

Also still to come, police in Hong Kong trying to remove protesters from one of their strongholds. But one of their officers gets shot with an arrow. We will show you what happens in a live report.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORTS)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: A live look there at Hong Kong, where protesters are still in the streets, along with bricks and also petrol bombs. A standoff there between authorities and protesters getting even more violent.

Hong Kong police say an officer has been shot with an arrow as they attempted to remove protesters from a university. He was wounded in the calf and taken to a hospital. Let's go now live to Hong Kong, Anna Coren is there.

Fresh violence and even arrows. And I see you have the gas mask on. Bring us up to date.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Michael. Some tear gas was fired a very short time ago. Hence, we have all put on our gas masks.

[04:20:00]

COREN: But we are on top of the balcony of the university looking down at the place where all of these hardline protesters are positioned with their petrol bombs, their bricks, there are catapults up here. It is the staging ground, if you like, for the battle that they are waging with police.

I just want to show you, Michael, give you a bit of a tour of this area that has been active for days but certainly has picked up in the last 24 hours. You can see the bricks that have been dug up and then broken into bits so they can be catapulted at police. There are crates of petrol bombs that are ready to go.

Our camera man Brad Olson (ph), if you can bring your camera around here.

This is just one area. You can see all of these protesters armed with petrol bombs. We will move further around and I will show you this catapult protesters have set up. They were firing eggs a short time ago. They were firing balloons filled with paint. But they're also firing rocks, stones and bricks.

If I can get Brad to give you a bit of a vantage point, stand on this chair, we will help him out. This is what the protesters are looking down on. So throughout the afternoon, we have had these ongoing skirmishes with the police. The water cannons, there are two of them. They fire. They try to move in, the armored police vehicles as well try to move in. Then they reverse.

They have been firing tear gas. But it doesn't really seem to be getting anywhere. There were reports that police were coming from a different direction. That is what the protesters are anticipating.

You mentioned that a police officer a little bit earlier in the day was hit with a bow and an arrow. An arrow was shot at him.

We are going to get out of this position only because there has been tear gas fired up here just before we came to you. I think it is safe to move to a better position.

This really, Michael, is the staging ground. This is what protesters believe give them the advantage over police because they are above. And Polytechnic University, this is a strategic position because we are very close to the tunnel that links Kowloon to Hong Kong island. That has been closed for days.

Really these protesters, and we have spoken to a number of them, a 22- year-old archer said he has done archery all his life. He said the arrows he had were just training arrows but they were going to fire them to defend their university. And as far as they're concerned, Michael, these students are at war.

HOLMES: One of the ongoing questions is Mainland China and its responsiveness. Tell us about the optics of PLA soldiers, Mainland China soldiers, who left their base and they got involved in cleaning up. I mean, it's just cleaning up.

But is that a concerning sign for Hong Kongers that they were out on the streets?

COREN: Yes. Look, they said it was a cleanup operation, something spontaneous, outside the garrison not far from where we are. I think that the fact that the PLA emerged not far from Polytechnic University which has become a major flashpoint here in Hong Kong.

Certainly Hong Kongers were alarmed by this. There was a lot of chat on social media. People were concerned, does this mean the Chinese troops are going to move in, the military is going to move in?

But the government said they did not ask for the PLA to take part, that this was merely a cleanup operation. We should note the PLA has been in Hong Kong since the handover.

There are numerous garrisons around Hong Kong and they have helped in other cleanup operations.

But we have heard from the Hong Kong government that, if it needs to call on China, it will. Xi Jinping has made it perfectly clear that the sovereignty of China will not be threatened by any external forces. Sorry, the threat is there, that the Chinese could move in. Certainly no sign of it at this stage, Michael.

[04:25:00]

COREN: They reiterate it was merely a cleanup operation. But, for many, it was an ominous sign.

HOLMES: Appreciate it, Anna. We will come back to you as things develop.

Now to Iran. Demonstrations against a gas price hike have turned deadly there. The government says at least one person has been killed in the unrest. Protesters on Saturday flooding the streets of the capital, Tehran. They jammed roads and clashed with authorities.

Iran's supreme leader said he supports the government's decision to raise prices. For more on all of this, Gul Tuysuz now live from Istanbul.

Tell us the latest. We have seen protests before but they usually fizzle out.

Is there a sense of momentum at all?

GUL TUYSUZ, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL PRODUCER: Well, Michael, when you see the videos coming out of Iran at this point, you see the protests are widespread and across Iran.

Some of the new images that we are seeing show government buildings that have been set on fire as well as banks. There are videos of nighttime protests, where demonstrators have gone out in the street and are chanting anti-regime slogans. There is a lot of momentum around all of this.

As you mentioned, the Iranian government does have a tendency to crack down on these protests. As you mentioned, there is one casualty so far. Iranian opposition and protest sympathizers say there could be more. Up to 10 people have lost their lives, that is according to a local journalist in Iran. And CNN cannot independently confirm that.

But the videos do show that, at some parts of the country, these protests have grown and taken on a whole different kind of look, if you will. The supreme leader came out and said, while he's not an expert, he supports and trusts the decision made by the government for this price hike.

And that's really the spark that set all of this off. A substantial hike in the price of fuel in a country like Iran -- it is one of the top oil producers in the world and yet, with winter right around the corner, people are going to be having to spend much more money on fuel for warmth with winter just right around the corner.

So there is a lot of frustration out on the street. And the fact that people are risking their lives to go out in the street and protest against the regime just goes to show you how far that frustration runs.

HOLMES: Yes. True. Gul there in Istanbul. Thank you so much. Oil reserves and very little refining capacity. That's part of the problem.

The 2020 election is one year away. But the impeachment hearings of President Trump right now. Will it have an impact on American voters?

We will travel to the U.S. heartland to find out. We will bring you that after the break.

Also, a rising tide in Venice threatens more historic treasures. A live report from Scott McLean in Venice when we come back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:30:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: Welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes. I'm update you on the headlines now.

(HEADLINES)

HOLMES: Well, as the impeachment inquiry plays out on television and behind closed doors, the question remains whether the American voters will be swayed one way or the other or if they even care.

The ousted U.S. ambassador to Ukraine issued a dire prediction if nothing changes. Marie Yovanovitch said she was targeted in a smear campaign and attacked via Twitter by the president while she testified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I remain disappointed that the department's leadership and others have declined to acknowledge that the attacks against me and others are dangerously wrong.

This is about far, far more than me or a couple of individuals. As foreign service professionals are being denigrated and undermined, the institution is also being degraded. This will soon cause real harm, if it hasn't already. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: CNN's Gary Tuchman watched with a group of Wisconsin voters and here's what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the politically important state of Wisconsin, we watched the impeachment hearing with six voters, who are undecided about 2020.

TUCHMAN: Do you think that this day was problematic for the president?

DIMITRY BECKER, WISCONSIN VOTER: It definitely opened some doors. It opened up a lot more to discussion.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Each of these six say they could go for a Republican or for a Democrat in the next presidential election. And regarding how this day went for the president --

RYAN DELANEY, WISCONSIN VOTER: I think it could have been a lot worse. I was really -- like really thought it would be a lot worse.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): They may have watched the same hearing. But our group had very different takes.

[04:35:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I think that, overall, the testimony that Ambassador Taylor gave is making me think and doubt Donald Trump's intentions behind his actions.

KAREN SCHROEDER, WISCONSIN VOTER: I think they'd have to have a lot of harder evidence against him to think that this was impeachable.

MARY BECK, WISCONSIN VOTER: I feel like he's leaving a wake behind him of problem after problem after problem.

TUCHMAN (on camera): How many of you were impressed with the witnesses? All of you. So you believe what they said. Do any of you doubt what they said? Yet not all of you think it was a bad day for the president. They said some things that were pretty negative about the president.

ULLA PINION, WISCONSIN VOTER: They did. But they were only able to say what they heard or what they gleaned through multiple different venues. That's what I mean about the president not finding evidence to defend himself.

TUCHMAN (on camera): That leads me to this question, because you set it up very well. It's a catch 22, isn't it? Republicans are saying you don't have first-hand knowledge. But the Trump administration isn't letting people with first-hand knowledge testify. Does that trouble you? BECKER: Yeah, definitely. It reminds me of the secret courts of Russia where I was born. I mean, you had people during the Soviet Union time, they weren't allowed to bring witnesses forward because those witnesses might discredit the government.

SCHROEDER: It would be good to have all the evidence heard. I think that would solidify the answer.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Did you think the White House make a mistake by telling people they can't testify?

SCHROEDER: It causes a problem, certainly, as if they were covering up something or hiding something.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): One person in our panel says she could potentially vote for a Republican for president, just not Donald Trump. The rest say Trump could still get their votes. They all say they will continue to watch the hearings.

TUCHMAN: Who was it a better day for, Republicans or Democrats?

BECKER: Republicans.

BECK: Democrats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Neither.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Neither.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Democrats.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, in Milwaukee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Quick break in the program now. When we come back, Venice on alert for more flooding and fierce winds. We're live in Italy next.

Also the flip phone could be headed for a come back. How Motorola looks to resurrect one of its iconic designs.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:40:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: Crippling floods hitting Venice. In the coming hours, high tide to reach more than 5 feet. Earlier, Venetians were busy cleaning up after the damage of nearly a week of historic flooding. CNN's Scott McLean joins me now.

Give us a sense of the situation where you are.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michael. So we wanted to show you a bit of a different angle. We are in Murano, famous for the glass that you often see in Venetian tourist shops.

You can see the water has already started to come up a bit. This flooded on Tuesday when the water hit its peak. This gentleman has a shop. He is expected to pump out the water as it starts to come up.

Remember, the flooding today, the tide will peak at 160 centimeters above sea level, 20 centimeters beyond what they consider extraordinary flooding and not far off from what they saw Tuesday.

John, I will get you to whip around the other way and show you how much they are experiencing already. We drove in this canal, this channel, and it is flooded all up and down the sidewalks here.

One of the things that people in Venice and people here often have is flooding protection, the flooding doors that you see here, that are meant to be watertight to keep water out. They can definitely deal with some level of flooding. But not the level we are expected to see here.

One of the things I wanted to show you is these bricks. Venice, Murano is built on solid stone, marble. But what is not supposed to get wet is these bricks. This is all saltwater, remember. Yes, the water might come up and leave quite quickly. But what stays behind is the salt, which deteriorates some of the bricks.

We were at St. Mark's early this morning. The square is the lowest part of Venice. It is underwater already. There is water inside the basilica, in the outer atrium area. They worry about this continual flooding that seems to be getting worse the last couple of years. It is eating away at some of this precious marble they are finding it hard to replace.

Obviously it's a costly repair bill when we are talking about a basilica 900 years old. The mayor said 30 years ago he didn't believe in climate change. Today, he says, the evidence is undeniable. Something needs to be done about it, he says.

HOLMES: A lot of damage being done to priceless places. We'll check in with you later. Thank you, Scott McLean, in Venice.

Details emerging about what could be the largest initial public offering in history. Saudi Aramco giving details to retail investors, giving them a chance to own a piece of the world's most profitable company. The price range is below $10 a share.

Now even if it prices at the lower end, it could still raise $24 billion, just shy of the $25 billion raised by Alibaba, the world's biggest ever IPO. John Defterios joins me live from London with more of this.

What do you make of this price range with the oil giant?

Is it still ambitious?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, it is conservative compared to what the original range was. It could get them into the number one category on two different measurements here. Let's take a look first at the valuations. If they go out as planned, it would be $1.6 trillion to $1.7 trillion . Original target was $2 trillion. It is and this is something I've been talking about the last few months, it is still at the high end of 1.5.

If they get to the higher end, they can beat Alibaba at $25.4 billion. Originally the crown prince was looking at $2 trillion to list in New York, London, Asia. This is limited to Riyadh. It will be 1.5 percent of the overall company. Half a percent will go to Saudi investors.

[04:45:00]

DEFTERIOS: They have until December 4th to make all of their decisions, including the institutional investors price on the 5th. We know the crown prince wants to get this out the door before the end of 2019 because it's been delayed several times.

Another thing you can't question at all about Aramco. It's a profit machine, about $68 billion for the first three-quarters of 2019, although that is slowing down from the pace we saw a year before.

HOLMES: John, thank you. Appreciate that.

Well, are people ready to flip over foldable phones?

You remember Samsung released its Galaxy Fold. Now a phone from the past is getting a smartphone makeover.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORTS)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

HOLMES: Welcome back. A favorite from 15 years ago is back. Motorola updating its Razr phone for the next generation. CNN's Zain Asher looks back at the famous flip phone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Moto.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember, "Hello, Moto"?

And the super cool flip phones which looked like they were sent from "Back to the Future."

[04:50:00]

ASHER (voice-over): The original cutting-edge Razr was a reinvention of those early flip phones which starred in movies like "My Best Friend's Wedding."

Turn back the clock even further and Motorola sold walkie-talkies, cool little radios and even home hi-fi. Fast forward a few decades and it went on to pioneer cell phones. Yes, those big bricks city bankers loved to lug around.

From big to small, it was 20 years ago that they shrank their phones to the palm of your hand. Put it all together and their incarnations of famous designs they hope will be making a big comeback.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Moto.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: That was then. This is now. Joining me now is Geoffrey Fowler is technology columnist for "The Washington Post."

Good to see you again, sir. Motorola was a household name back in the day. That first Razr.

What happened and will this recapture the magic?

Is it a disruptor?

GEOFFREY FOWLER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. Well, 2004 is back. A lot of people are very happy about that.

What did happen to Motorola?

This other little thing came along called the iPhone. And then all of a sudden, everybody said, whoa, we want smartphones. Motorola held onto the Razr design a little bit too long and the rest of the industry and the world moved on without it.

Today pretty much every cell phone in the world looks something like an iPhone. It's a long piece of glass with a screen on it. Motorola said, can we use the new technology to break things up again?

HOLMES: In reading your article in "The Washington Post," this is a folding phone that goes completely flat without a visible crease.

What are the concerns, though -- and I have read a few, things like battery life, processor, no real idea of the durability of hinges and so on.

What other pluses and minuses?

FOWLER: Yes. I think the big question mark for everybody is how well is this new foldable screen technology going to hold up over time?

This is not the first phone that has used it. The first that came to market was the Samsung Galaxy Fold that arrived in September. Folks who follow the tech world might remember it had some problems. They had to pull back on their original release of it.

When they finally came out with it, when I got my hands on a review, it came with all of these warnings. Keep it away from sand, keep it out of pockets and keys. So Motorola has all the same kind of questions with this new flip phone design.

What happens if you take it to the beach?

What will happen after year two if you open and snap it shut over and over again?

HOLMES: Who is the target consumer then?

These things are not cheap.

FOWLER: Yes. This is where the real problems comes in for most folks. It will cost $1,500 U.S., about twice the price of iPhone 11 and twice the price of the original Razr back in the day.

Most phones that cost that much are high-end luxury devices. This phone doesn't really have fancy features. So I think for now it will be more of a niche device, for people who want that cool they can get from having the retro look again.

I think the general idea is kind of right here, right?

That phones are too big now. It would be good to fit in our pockets again.

HOLMES: I like the idea. You touched on my next question.

Where is Apple on a foldable?

Missing the boat or waiting and seeing?

FOWLER: Poor Apple, they haven't done much with the iPhone the last couple of years. Yes, they have added nice new things to the camera but they really haven't, you know, pushed the envelope.

[04:55:00]

FOWLER: It is not really what Apple is known for these days. These days Apple is known for refining a market and figuring out how to make a very high-end product. So there is not really a foldable iPhone anytime in the immediate future. But it could come if Motorola and others start to nip away at them with these folding screens and designs.

HOLMES: Going to be interesting. Good luck to Razr, good old Motorola. I had forgotten they were still around. So good luck to them. Geoffrey Fowler with "The Washington Post," always a pleasure. Good to see you.

FOWLER: You bet.

HOLMES: "People" magazine says the singer John Legend is the "Sexiest Man Alive." But one rap legend said they got it wrong. Snoop Dogg posting this Photoshopped image of himself on the cover with the sexiest title. The image has more than 400,000 likes so far.

The edited cover features Snoop wearing a Crip-blue suit and undone bow tie and also shows the self-declared marijuana enthusiast with a joint, of course. So did "People" get it wrong?

We'll let you decide. There's been no response from Legend yet. All Snoop needs is a gin and juice and he will drop it like it's hot.

I'm done. Thanks for watching CNN NEWSROOM, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. CNN NEWSROOM continues after the break. I'll see you on the other side.