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Trump Reversing 60-Plus Years Of Policy, Says U.S. No Longer Considers Israeli's Settlements Inconsistent With International Law; Pence's Office Declines To Defend Own Aide; Cracks Among Republicans Amid Impeachment Inquiry; North Korean Leader To Trump: No Longer Interested In Meeting. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired November 18, 2019 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:31:42]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news. The Trump administration is set to reverse a longstanding policy on the Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is expected to make the announcement this hour, which will reject a 1978 State Department legal opinion which deemed the settlement inconsistent with international law.
CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us live from Jerusalem.
Oren, give us a little more as far as what the secretary of state is said to announce, and why now?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It looks like Mike Pompeo is already speaking, upending decades of foreign policy when it comes to Israel, which at this point isn't surprising.
Under that policy that's guided U.S. foreign policy when it comes to Israel and the Palestinian territory for decades the Israeli-occupies settlements were illegal, a violation under international. Saying the administration has decided not to accept this ruling since 1978 that has governed U.S. foreign policy for decades and a move that's sure to make Israelis happy but infuriate Palestinians, which the Trump administration has done repeatedly
This is a continuation of what we're seen from the Trump administration for years. They removed the term "occupied from the Palestinian territories, referring to it as "disputed."
The former leader of the peace team said he didn't want to call them settlements, he wanted to call them towns and cities. This is a continuation of normalization of settlements in the occupied West Bank from the Trump administration. And this is a continuation of that.
Two things worth noting on timing. The administration says this has been in the works for the past year. It comes after, at two conspicuous moments.
It comes after, last week, the European code of Justice ruled that product and goods from Israeli settlements must be labelled as such. Consumers can't look at a product and see "Made in Israel." That was false advertising and information.
Second, if it was intended or not, this is a major boost for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The Trump administration didn't get much help before the September elections. But this a big boost. Netanyahu is in a perilous political situation. His rival having the ability to form a government. This is a boost for Netanyahu. He's very much in danger of not being Israel as prime minister. This is what he was looking for. I expect soon a statement celebrating this
And it is worth pointing out, we've seen a response from Israel's Arab leaders. This doesn't change the fact that Israeli settlements are built on occupied territory.
BALDWIN: Orin Liebermann, thank you very much. We'll watch for more from the State Department.
In the meantime, as president blocks his inner circle from testifying in the impeachment inquiry, he publicly slammed witnesses who already have or still plan to testify.
Jennifer Williams, a Mike Pence's aide, was on the July 25th phone call, she's set to testify tomorrow. She says that this call the president had with Ukraine's leader was, quote, "Unusual and inappropriate." But Trump says, Williams is a Never-Trumper.
However, it's what the vice president is not saying that is speaking volumes here. His office, who hired her, released a statement saying Williams is a State Department employee.
[14:35:08]
Let's go to CNN Political Analyst, Carl Bernstein, with more.
Carl, what do you make of that statement?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's trying to distance himself between the vice president and someone who is his key adviser who is going to give testimony apparently quite damaging for the White House and President Trump himself. She is his rile adviser.
BALDWIN: What about the president. Between his tweet, and now you have the president's tweet. Is the president trying to send a clear message to witnesses, carl?
BERNSTEIN: I don't want to be inside the president's head. Certainly he seems intent on intimidating future witnesses. He's making it clear, has made it clear throughout these hearings and even before. He's dangerously close to being looked at for intimidation of witnesses. We know about the justice apartment opinion.
But this could be part of an article of impeachment, particularly what the president did with Ambassador Yovanovitch. We can talk about this later, they're deeply disturbed, Republican Senators about what they have seen in this impeachment situation so far. BALDWIN: What about Gordon Sondland. There's a whole menu of options
for him. He could plead the Fifth. He could not show up. He could testify and spill the beans. Which do you think it would be?
BERNSTEIN: I would not make a prediction. This is a time for all of us to see what develops. If we have the abilities to advance the story, we should be doing it.
I don't think there's any expectation the president can be well served by Sondland's actions. It all comes in context in his conspiracy. A conspiracy to undermine our free electoral process by seeking the intervention of a foreign power, Ukraine, and its president in our elections. He is crucial to that conspiracy.
I think one of the interesting things we're going to see and further testimony in the next week or so, is who else might be touched by this conspiracy who is one or two of Trump's top aids. Who else was involved in these discussions? I'm not suggesting it was necessarily criminal.
What was Pompeo's role about what the president was up to here in this apparent conspiracy?
BALDWIN: As we keep all those points in mind, final point from you, you say there's an underlying subtext to these impeachment hearings and it involves Vladimir Putin. Tell me what you mean.
BERNSTEIN: I don't think there's any question. As we have seen throughout the Mueller investigation, and the idea that there's no collusion, the president claims, that is not necessarily the case.
What we have seen through these impeachment investigations is what has so many Republican Senators -- and I talked to a few, quite a few and so have other reporters, they are deeply disturbed at what they have learned again about the president of the United States' willingness to serve the interest of Russia and Vladimir Putin throughout his dealings with Ukraine.
[14:40:13]
Here is Ukraine, the only country that has been directly attacked, aside from Georgia by Soviet forces or proxies -- this is a real war in which 13,000, I believe --
BALDWIN: Yes, 13,000.
BERNSTEIN: -- where 13,000 have died. The border of Europe after World War II have been immutable until the Russian aggression.
And when we have a president in the United States who not only has excused it but has sat by passively and gone along with what Putin has wanted him to do.
The larger question of Trump's albescence, as we saw in Helsinki, the great mystery is, why does he continue to do Vladimir Putin's bidding as we saw most recently by the invasion of Turkey and Syria. Shoving the Kurds into mortl danger and ending the role of the Kurds that have been so crucial to the security. Of what we were speaking to aspire in Syria.
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BALDWIN: It is applicable. It's a question I've asked of you --
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: The question is, Senators are asking, is this president wittingly going along with the president serving -- he has served the interest of what this impeachment investigation is about is we see now how he has continued to serve the interest of Putin in the most important hotspot in the world in which the Russians are involved. And we have a role to play that he seems unwilling to play that he seems unwilling to play.
BALDWIN: Something for all of us to keep in mind.
Carl Bernstein, as always, thank you very much for coming on.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
Two words, not OK. That's what Republican Congressman Mike Turner says about the president's dealings with Ukraine. Is the GOP starting to lose patience with President Trump?
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[14:47:03]
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MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm proud of what we've done. President Trump's policy has been consistent throughout. The State Department is fully supportive of what we've done, but our Ukraine policy moving forward.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No defense of your employees?
POMPEO: I always defend state employees, the greatest diplomatic corps in the history of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo responding to questions about the campaign, at the heart of this impeachment inquiry. Pompeo accused of not defending the former Ukraine ambassador in what's been described as a smear campaign against her.
On the heels of another week in the impeachment inquiry, a few miner cracks are starting to appear.
Republican Rep. Mike Turner, a member of the House committee involved in the impeachment investigation is voicing some concerns, but the president's actions with regard to the Ukraine after hearing from a number of these witnesses.
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REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): All of that is alarming. As I said from the beginning, this is not OK. The president of the United States shouldn't even in the original phone call be on the phone with the president of another country and raise his political opponent. No, this is not OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: CNN special correspondent, Jamie Gangel, is with me from Washington.
Jamie, you talked to so many Republicans. You have so many sources. Is this an indication that the seeds of doubt are creeping into the minds of people.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: More than the seeds of doubt. I'm laughing at the word not OK. Because they really do speak volumes about what's going on. Republicans are, I am told, over and over again increasingly concerned and uncomfortable.
Whatever the substance of whether this is up to impeachment is yet to be decided. These have been such impressive witnesses from the State Department, these career officials. And when the president goes on Twitter and starts to attack them, it makes Republicans very uncomfortable.
They've said to me over and over again, if there's one thing we could do, it would be to get them off Twitter, as we know.
There's a political problem. When he attacks them, the Republicans were concerned about the political fallout. What does this do to Independent voters. What does this do to those critical suburban women?
And the last thing I'm hearing is, we've heard the president say he wants the Republicans to defend him on substance. He wants them to come out there and say, just say I didn't do it, but Republicans tell me they don't know what's coming next.
They don't know what Gordon Sondland is going to say on Wednesday. They don't know what the other witnesses are. So not OK is a way of saying it -
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[14:50:09]
GANGEL: Yes.
BALDWIN: Jamie, I'm out of time, I'm afraid, but thank you so much. We're getting new word from North Korea. Kim Jong-Un says he's no
longer interested in another summit with President Trump after a weekend Twitter tiff. We'll talk about what's next.
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BALDWIN: A defiant North Korea saying, no. The timing is pretty remarkable. Yesterday, the U.S. called off joint military exercises calling it an act of good will.
President Trump mocked Joe Biden after North Korea called the former vice-presidential candidate a, quote, "rabid dog" who should be beaten to death with a stick.
Trump tweeting to Kim Jong-Un, "Biden may be sleepy and slow, but he's not a rabid dog." Adding, "You should act quickly, get the deal done. See you soon."
North Korea's response, quote, "We are no longer interested in these meetings that are useless to us. We will no longer give the U.S. president something to boast about for nothing in return."
Gordon Chang is a columnist with "The Daily Beast" and an author.
Gordon, did President Trump just get played?
GORDON CHANG, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: Trump let off the gas on sanctions and he tried to entice Kim Jong-Un into good behavior. No one in the history of the world has been able to do that. He's been played for a long time on this.
[14:55:08]
And what this most recent comment from the North Korean foreign ministry shows is that they think it's an honor for the president of the United States, whoever it is, to meet with the North Korean leader. That's growing a little too far.
BALDWIN: What did you think of how the president respondent, repeating Kim Jong-Un's insult of Biden. Saying he's not -- he may be sleepy and slow, but he's not this and mocking him.
CHANG: I think that's the leader of the United States needs to defend an American statesman when he's been attacked by a North Korean. We can argue about the way this was done. I wouldn't have done it this particular way. Trump needed to say something to respond to that.
North Korea, when they start attacking Americans, especially a former vice president, this goes across the line. If you don't stop the North Koreans from doing this, they'll go after everyone else.
BALDWIN: Just the fact that North Korea is saying now, no more summits for you, knowing it's impeachment time, and is certainly noteworthy from Pyongyang.
I have to go. Gordon Change, though, thanks you. (CROSSTALK)
CHANG: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Breaking news. The House is investigating whether President Trump lied to former Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
And President Trump's mysterious medical exam. Why did he suddenly drop by W8alter Reed on a Saturday afternoon unannounced and why the lack of transparency?
We'll be right back.
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