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Impeachment Inquiry Voter Impact; Fiona Hill's Testimony Highlights Russian Propaganda; Racist Incidents Increasing on College Campuses. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired November 22, 2019 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: -- matters for Senator Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar, Harris, Booker, you name it.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, right.
HARLOW: Here's Andrew Yang last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would hate to see half the field disappear to Washington for Senate proceedings which looks like it really could be the case given the timing. So to me, that's one of the reasons why this impeachment process may not help the Democrats in 2020.
I think that we need to be laser-focused on solving the problems that got Donald Trump elected, and that's the best way to beat him come November of next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Is he right, Ron?
BROWNSTEIN: To a point, but not entirely.
HARLOW: OK.
BROWNSTEIN: I mean, the point that's right is obviously the same thing as 2018. I mean, Democrats won by dealing with the kitchen table issues that people are concerned about, particularly Donald Trump's efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act. And there's a lot of evidence that in particular, the blue-collar white women who are so critical to the outcome of this, do not feel that this economy has helped them.
So obviously, they have to talk about that. But -- the but is, you know, Donald Trump is a -- is the only president who's never had 50 percent approval throughout his presidency. A majority of Americans have consistently said they disapprove of him.
And in that majority, this -- what they are learning through the impeachment process, I believe there's evidence, is hardening their resistance to him. It's not necessarily changing the proportions of people who approve or disapprove.
But to win, Donald Trump's going to have to convince some people who now disapprove of him that the Democrat would be worse. And those disapprovers, there's a lot of evidence that they believe he has acted deeply inappropriately, and it raises concerns about his temperament and just the way he comports himself as president.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: So, big picture then, Ron, using your political and wise spidey sense here --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- is it effectively --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: -- a wash, then, in that, for the Democrats who already disapprove of his behavior -- and we saw that, we saw that in 2018 and some of these elections we've had recently. And then for Republicans who have already sort of, you know, decided they're fine with him, you know, they're fine with this as well.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, the lines are engraved pretty deeply, Jim. So in the sense that, you know, any movement in public opinion around Donald Trump by this point is going to be at the margin.
But I don't think it is entirely a wash. I think it does create a challenge for him, in that as I said, a majority of the country has consistently disapproved of him as president. Part of the Republican vision of 2020 is that they will convince some of those people who now disapprove of him to vote for him anyway because they like the Democrat even less.
That hill (ph) that they have to cross to do that, I think has gotten higher. Because to voters who disapprove of Trump, I think this is -- this is a confirmation of all the things they worry about most in him. That he doesn't respect the rule of law, that he doesn't listen to advisors, that he is volatile.
Over 90 percent of people who disapprove of him say he was acting in his personal interest, not the national interest. And that it was inappropriate to ask the president of Ukraine to investigate a political rival.
So I think this does make the hill deep -- higher for him in terms of convincing people who now disapprove to vote for him, even if it doesn't significantly change the proportions who approve and disapprove.
In the end, don't forget the share of people who say that what he did was wrong in Ukraine --
HARLOW: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- is always significantly higher than the share who say they would --
HARLOW: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- they support --
HARLOW: I think it --
BROWNSTEIN: -- removing him from office.
HARLOW: -- I think it's 70 percent --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HARLOW: -- in the ABC --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes, right.
HARLOW: -- poll.
So you have a great piece, here it is. It just came out last night. And one thing that struck us from it is this sentence. Quote, "The GOP is reprising arguments from the 20th century conservative populists that portray experts as untrustworthy and contemptuous elites out to subvert the will of ordinary Americans. The challenge Trump faces is that such an attack my backfire."
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HARLOW: Why?
BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, look, I mean, the argument here that you've heard (ph) from Newt Gingrich, from Donald Trump Jr., form Sean Hannity --
HARLOW: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- from Rush Limbaugh, is that these are unelected bureaucrats who believe they are -- that they -- their views on foreign policy should rule. And that the president -- that they are only kind of complaining because the president is not following their opinion.
And this does follow a long kind of lineage of what we've seen in the Trump administration, of kind of questioning expertise, particularly in the scientific and environmental area where they've taken a whole series of steps --
HARLOW: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- to sideline scientists even in the -- in Syria, where he said he did not consult the general, you know, of CENTCOM.
This is a longstanding kind of conservative populist argument. Joe McCarthy made arguments like this about people born with a silver spoon who are betraying the country, George Wallace talked about pointy-headed bureaucrats. The difference is that when McCarthy said that, one in 14 Americans
had a college degree. When Wallace said it, one in 10. Now it's more than one in three. There are a lot of people who make their livings and live their lives because of their expertise.
And I think one of the reasons why the president is struggling more than any Republican ever among those college-educated suburban voters, is in part because he does seem hostile to the very idea of expertise, particularly --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- in the scientific area --
HARLOW: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- and now we're seeing it in foreign policy.
SCIUTTO: Well, and to facts, let's be frank.
BROWNSTEIN: And to facts, right.
SCIUTTO: Well-documented false statements virtually every day. It's a fact of the world we live in. Ron Brownstein, thanks very much.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, guys.
HARLOW: Thanks Ron, have a good weekend.
[10:34:48]
All right. Ambassador Fiona Hill took direct aim at those conspiracy theories about the 2016 election and Ukraine. She did it under oath in her testimony. Was it enough, though, to put them to rest?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: President Trump's former top Russia advisor -- of course, the woman he appointed to that job, Fiona Hill, went out of her way to debunk conspiracy theories pushed remarkably broadly now by Republicans. She did this during her testimony yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIONA HILL, TRUMP'S FORMER TOP RUSSIA ADVISOR: Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country, and that perhaps somehow for some reason Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:40:10]
SCIUTTO: She addressed, among other things, Republicans attributing election interference to Ukraine and not Russia, Russian propaganda, the Steele dossier.
Joining me now, chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News, Michael Isikoff. You know what struck me about this story is, it's another case of -- where BS, frankly, that started on the fringes and even in this case, started as a Russian talking point, migrates to Trump and now, you know, Republicans are selling this.
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT, YAHOO NEWS: We've seen a lot of examples of it. And look at the president's comments just this morning --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- on "Fox and Friends," where he still seems to be embracing this wild notion of a --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- missing server somehow in Ukraine. That's all -- you know, it's nonsensical. There's, like, not a scrap of evidence. And in fact, when the president was asked, you know, where -- are you sure about that? Well, that's the word. I mean, I guess --
SCIUTTO: I know.
ISIKOFF: -- that's -- that's --
SCIUTTO: Yes, many -- many --
ISIKOFF: -- the level of evidence.
SCIUTTO: -- people are saying, right?
ISIKOFF: Right. Now, you know, I should say that I think Hill actually overstated what the Republicans were saying here. Because the House Republican-controlled report last year did clearly say the Russians did it, the Russians --
SCIUTTO: True, but --
ISIKOFF: -- interfered in our election.
SCIUTTO: They did, they did. And Devin Nunes made that point, and that is clear.
ISIKOFF: Right.
SCIUTTO: But as you and I know --
ISIKOFF: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- by muddying the waters --
ISIKOFF: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- that's part of -- that's part of the Soviet Russian playbook here --
ISIKOFF: Sure.
SCIUTTO: -- because what Republicans are doing are now equating some op-eds, right --
ISIKOFF: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- by Ukraine officials in 2016. Which, by the way, is not what President Trump talks -- President Trump talks about the DNC server --
ISIKOFF: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- which we know, hacked by the Russians --
ISIKOFF: That's --
SCIUTTO: -- is somehow in Ukraine.
ISIKOFF: -- that's ridiculous --
SCIUTTO: I know. But -- but --
ISIKOFF: -- that's ridiculous.
SCIUTTO: I know. But -- but there's some Republican sleight of hand here, is there not? As they talk about Ukrainian supposed interference.
ISIKOFF: Right, right. Look, there's no equivalence. What the Russians did was a state action by their security services --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- by the GRU, which was a criminal hack of computers, all done surreptitiously, ordered from the top by the Kremlin.
There are instances where Ukrainians weighed in. There's the op-ed by a --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- Ukrainian ambassador, reacting to Trump, saying that he might approve of Russian carving up of -- of their country --
SCIUTTO: But if that's election interference --
ISIKOFF: Right, yes.
SCIUTTO: -- you know --
ISIKOFF: It's -- it's hardly --
SCIUTTO: -- every op-ed in every paper --
ISIKOFF: -- at the same level.
SCIUTTO: -- yes, yes.
ISIKOFF: Right, right. You know, and a few other instances that have been cited, you know, Facebook postings and all.
And you know, Hill did say, yes, you know, the Ukrainians, it would be best if the Ukrainians and other countries did not weigh in in this way. But, you know, the real fundamental issue is, there's no equivalence --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- between the instances of Ukrainian interference --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- if that's what you want to call it, with the Russian state action.
SCIUTTO: You know what, something that struck me. In all these hearings with all these people testifying who are at the forefront of America's Ukraine policy, but also Russia policy --
ISIKOFF: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- Fiona Hill. Not once did we hear account of a presidential conversation saying, we have to defend our elections in 2020, which are less than a year away right now --
ISIKOFF: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- against this real and genuine Russia threat.
ISIKOFF: Right.
SCIUTTO: I just wonder, for folks at home who are watching, how confident should they be -- I mean, we know that Russia's going to try again -- intel agencies --
ISIKOFF: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- have already said that. How confident should they be that this election will be safe and secure?
ISIKOFF: You know, it's hard to say. And by the way, it's not just the Russians. You know, we know that --
SCIUTTO: China.
ISIKOFF: -- the Chinese, the Iranians --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- North Koreans all have capabilities in this area, and we have seen cyber-intrusions by all of those -- SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- you know, malicious actors. I think that there's been -- yes, clearly, some work that has been done to bolster the defenses, particularly of voting systems --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- that was always the biggest concern --
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question.
ISIKOFF: -- that there might be tampering with the voting systems. And I think everybody is much more conscious of that.
Look, I've always thought, of course the Russians are going to try to do something next time, but they probably won't do exactly the same thing, they're pretty clever at this --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- they're going to try other means of -- of stowing -- of inciting dissent, of, you know, riling up people in ways that we're not --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ISIKOFF: -- particularly conscious of right now.
SCIUTTO: Diving into those -- those divisive zones and issues --
ISIKOFF: Sure.
SCIUTTO: -- and then (ph), boy. There's fertile ground here, as you know.
ISIKOFF: Yes there is.
SCIUTTO: Michael Isikoff, great to have you on this morning. Thanks very much.
ISIKOFF: Any time.
HARLOW: Syracuse University, dealing with a series of incredibly troubling racist incidents. Students say the university just is not doing enough. We'll get to that, next.
[10:44:41]
But first, you might have heard of Facebook's plans to launch a cryptocurrency through the Libra Association. The man who created it says it's going to change the world for the better, but it's controversial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Facebook's David Marcus has big aspirations for Libra. The proposed digital cryptocurrency could change the global financial system, making it easier to send money quickly and cheaply.
[10:45:06]
DAVID MARCUS, CO-FOUNDER, LIBRA: When you still have 1.7 billion people who don't have access to digital money, something's really wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Marcus is also overseeing Calibra, the digital wallet that lets users store and send Libra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is Facebook the player to do this?
MARCUS: We can add so much value because we have distribution, we have two of the largest messaging apps in the world. And of course, we also bring a lot of baggage that we have to be aware of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Facebook won't be managing Libra alone. That will be the job of the Libra Association, a separate governing body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There have been some setbacks in regards to the Libra Association, PayPal, Visa, Mastercard, they all left. Has the bleeding stopped?
MARCUS: We just need to do a really good job at clarifying what the regulatory framework is going to be. And once we've done that, I think you'll see a lot more financial institutions joining.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Lawmakers are certainly concerned about user privacy, the impact on the global banking system and criminal activity.
MARCUS: It's really important to realize that more money moving from cash to digital is actually a good fact in terms of traceability and stopping criminal activity from happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How confident are you that this is going to succeed?
MARCUS: It is really hard. But this is change that is happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:51:20]
HARLOW: Four students at Syracuse University have been suspended for verbally assaulting an African-American student. This is just one in a series of racist incidents that have sparked student protests there, students saying they're frustrated, they think the university is just being slow to respond. SCIUTTO: At the same time, Syracuse police have arrested a student for spraying graffiti in support of protesting students. CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now from Syracuse.
So, Polo, students, they ended a sit-in last night. What's the latest there?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. We were in the room yesterday as these students essentially came together and made that announcement that their peaceful occupation of one of the buildings on campus was coming to an end after eight days.
But in the same breath, they also called for the resignation of University Chancellor Kent Syverud, saying that they are left with no confidence in not only him but other high-ranking administration officials.
So what they're doing now essentially, ending that protest after eight days. However, they are saying that when they come back from the Thanksgiving break, they hope that there will be at least the idea of new leadership.
I did have an opportunity to speak to one of the deans on campus just before students made that announcement. And there was this consensus, that many of the points that have been brought up by these students and these recommendations are in fact valid. And one university official told me there will be change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIANNE HUGER THOMSON, DEAN OF STUDENTS, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: There's hate in the world. Syracuse University is not immune to that. But I think our student demands and the solutions that they offered were not necessarily tied to this incident. This was -- they actually went much deeper than that and identified areas that we can help make -- make this place home for all of our students in a better way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Now, we should mention that Chancellor Syverud did sign on to many of those recommendations that were made by the students. However, again, many of these students, telling us that they're still not happy with the way that the administration on the campus has handled many of these latest racist incidents, where racist symbols and language have been used or found on and around campus.
We have reached out to the university to see if they have any reaction or response to this fresh call for the chancellor to step down, Jim and Poppy. We're still waiting to hear back from them.
HARLOW: OK. Polo, thank you very much for that reporting. It's incredibly troubling to see what has taken place for some of the students there.
And Syracuse is not alone. Several schools across the country right now are also investigating racist incidents. The University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire suspended five football players this week for their involvement in a racist Snapchat message. That is according to our affiliate WEAU.
School officials say there was an image of a burning cross and a message referencing an African-American student group.
SCIUTTO: Goodness, in the year 2019.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: At the University of Georgia this week, swastikas found on a message board -- message boards at two residence halls. Plus Iowa State University police, investigating a swastika etched into a door in a residence hall there. School officials also report racist stickers and posters being left on light poles and bus stops around campus. Imagine how alarming that is for people of color there.
[10:54:31]
We are just hours away from a high-stakes meeting at the White House. President Trump, meeting with executives from the vaping industry and public health groups in light of his reversal on his proposed ban on all flavored vaping. We'll have more, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Both public health groups and vaping industry executives will meet with President Trump today at the White House to discuss the teen vaping epidemic.
It's getting dangerous. According to the Centers for Disease Control, 47 people have died this year from vaping-related illnesses; thousands of others have suffered serious lung injuries.
HARLOW: On Sunday, you'll remember, "The New York Times" reported the president had backed away from that proposed ban on all flavored e- cigarettes. The White House said they're in the middle of an ongoing rulemaking process over vaping. But according to some administration sources, the president was also told that such a ban would be unpopular with his base. We can assure you this is something we will follow very closely.
[11:00:07]
Thank you for joining us today and all --
